Nothcing pistons... How to?

I want to put on my 302 a pair of edelbrock victor jr. cylinder heads but it says that the pistons have to be notched for clearence. Can you guys help me out explain like how to do that and also if I put that on my 302 engine would i later be able to put the heads on a 351w if i wanted to...Because I wanted to improve my performance greatly but not have to buy parts twice....Thanks All in Advance:iceslolan

First off you are aware Vic Jr are way way too big for a 302 unless you going to run a ton of boost.

Also most people who build a motor that needs Vic Jrs are building some type of stroker motor so they just buy new pistons to work with those heads.

Yes you can use the Vic Jr on a 302 or 351W, they are designed for a 351W so they use a 1/2" head bolt. To use on a 302 use ARP 7/16" head bolts with stepped washer kit.

I can explian to you how to properly notch pistons but unless you have maching equipment its pointless cause you will not be able to do it correctly. So you would be better of just buying new pistons and installing them.

Not to mention, that in order to properly "notch" pistons, you will need to disassemble the block and remove the pistons. It would be better off left to a mechanist to do the work of notching or fly cutting pistons. Have you looked into AFR heads, they flow very well and would make decent power on the 302.

yea my plan is to build a 427 stroked 351w so i was trying to improve on my engine now with the stuff i was going to build that engine with....Maybe I will just wait to get it till I start building my engine,

Where might be the best deal to get a short block 427 stroked windsor?
What are you guys oppinions on this?

sounds real nice to me, I want to stroke mine too. You'll have a beast of a stang, what body type is your vehicle?

To start your search on the engine, i'd begin with the engine factory.
This is a link to their ford section http://www.fordcobraengines.com/

If i was going to do what you are doing i'd just buy stuff with only the 351/427 in mind, and if it could bolt onto the 302 then bonus, but otherwise i wouldn't preoccupy myself with such compatibility considerations.

Stroked 427 Windsor... Your going to make this a Trailer Queen right?

Tony,

What do you want out of your car?

what do i want out of my car, Hmm..... about 450-500 rear wheel horses, I want it to have plenty of power and if my friend with his firebird challenges me then Sianora for him.... So if you know how i can build a Small block with that much power to the wheels and it is a better and easyier please let me know....Bigdan it is a 70 convertible, GtStang remember the saying no replacement for displacement.

Originally posted by TonyIzCool1
what do i want out of my car, Hmm..... about 450-500 rear wheel horses, I want it to have plenty of power and if my friend with his firebird challenges me then Sianora for him.... So if you know how i can build a Small block with that much power to the wheels and it is a better and easyier please let me know....Bigdan it is a 70 convertible, GtStang remember the saying no replacement for displacement.
Just remember that HP is easily made with combinations. Take my combo, upgrade the fuel system and slap on a supercharger and you will be close to the HP levels your looking for. Just dropping a stock big block under the hood or slapping on high cfm heads won't do much for you. Ask GTStang about his stroked 351 combo, guarantied he has upgraded quite a bit in that motor to achieve the HP levels he now has. The easiest was to gain HP is modifying the stock 302, they can make decent power without sacrificing street-ability, plus there is an abundance of aftermarket for the 302 which makes it extremely easy to modify.

well how much do you suppose a strocked 351 could produce? It seems to me that his hp and torque aspirations could be met very easily with little aftermarket improvement.

Here is the only thing about a 427 stroker Im commenting on. That combo is really pushing the physical limits of that block. It is really mostly used by full on race cars. They do not expect to get 100.000 miles out of the motor. Thet are happy if it last one season. Most who go that route also start with a fresh FMS 351W block cause its the only chance you have to make it last. If you really want a stroked windsor go 393 or 408 much safer.
For the HP levels you want you dont need all those cubes. You can use a 302 blower combo and get it. If you want NA then stroked windsor would be good also. Give it some more thought and ever one here will help you out.

Hi-Flow.... This weekend Worcester Burn-outs. Im gonna give my new axles all they can handles come check it out.

Tony,

Look at my sig, there are not too many cars that will have that much HP out there. Its a simple 302 with an S-Trim, my heads are not the best, so there is big room for improvment there.

GTStang,

What do know about the Cobra 351w upper and lower used for a stroker? Would that intake be better suited for a 357? That is the intake I have in my garage right now, with my 20 over 69 block.

Who did you go through to get yours? Or did you piece your together? I want something that is going to be able to hold 650hp to the ground:) I was told go with a scat 393, but I have not heard if the combo would be conducive with the cobra intake. Thanks for any help.

ok so you guys think having my 302 and puting like maybe the Edelbrock Rpm heads and Rpm Manofold with a street demon 650-750 cfm carb and posibly a blower (The Centrifical kind) would it be better for reaching my desired power? Any suggestions or parts to use instead of these....O yea thank you so much for the help

Doing a carb with a Centri Supercharger would be a pain in the butt. Your better off the a roots style.

Now if you go EFI, Cenri Supercharger would be fine.

Are you keeping the carb, no matter what?

well I would like to keep the carb...And i would like all the stuff under the hood...I would love to put the roots type on it that would be awesome sounding but I was reading and saw that if the carb was not perfectly tuned for it, it could like explode or something...maybe you guys can explain it to me alittle better.

You can go either way on the SC. Powerdyne makes a centrifugal kit for a carb motor. Or you could use the 144 roots SC. In either case of course tuning is important. Big thing would be too run everything very rich to start. This will avoid lean conditions and motor meltdown. Then bring it to a pro to be tuned worth every penny. Unless you wanna spend the money setting up home made wideband O2s for tuning

Skyline that Cobra isnt going to get you the numbers you want unless you planning on juicing or SC. But also in either case a better 351W Fuel Injected manifold is Trick Flows 90mm 351W, A Carbed Vic or Jr wit fuel injector bosses welded in and a Power Elbow, Or my dream a Hogan Racing made intake manifold.
I pieced my stroker set-up together mostly cause I wanted to use long rods for better anguilarity and less strain on the bearings. I used a forged Scat 4340 crank, 6.3 Chevy small block Eagle ESP H-rods, JE Pistons(1.275 COMP HIEGHT).
For 650hp you want a kit that contains all forged parts. Also you want a Main Girdle. Scat,Eagle, Manley all make good parts. But as far as break-down I feel this, crank is all about Scat, Rods I love Eagle, Pistons JE is always my first choice, Wiseco, Ross, KB are good also.

not to throw this thread o/t but i'm reading this thread and have no idea as to what u guys are talkin about:iceslolan what the heck is a stroker:bloated:

GTStang,

I know there are a lot better intakes than the one I have, but I am stuck with it:(

Yes, I will be going twin turbo with my stroker. I should be pushing around 1.2bar, at a 9.4:1 ratio with 205 heads. I am looking at either a 383 or 393 kit right now.

Scat crank, JE pistons, Eagle rods, and of course like you said a main girdle. The Skyline GTR engines come stock with one of those:)

I wanted to use long rods for better anguilarity Will that not increase side loading? So, you are saying that a 393 is better for engine longevity that a 383 stroker kit? Did you have to notch your block, if I remember correctly you did not have to notch unless you went over 400? Its been a while since I was really in the Ford scene.

yea i was looking at some paxton models and so far i like the Novi 1200 blower.....but what is a good way to make around 500 hp without SCing it. Cause i would like to put on the shaker ram-air assembly as that looks awesome....What would you guys do?

I forgot to ask what is the stroke length of a 393? 3.85?


A stroker is just that it increases your stroke, to increase your displacement. More displacement more power, but there is always a point where it can be too big.

I am not hip on Paxon, or Powerdyne

why don't you like those companies?

Again heres my 2 choices

1. keep 302 New Heads, Intake, cam, carb, and put a blower on it.
2. new 351 stroked to either 408 or 427 putting performance heads, intake, cam, carb without the blower

Which one would be better to reach 500hp?

Ive never heard of a Ford 383 thats Chevy. Of course you can make almost any displacement you want with the right parts. Most strokers are a 30 overbore retain the stock lenght connecting rods and and the stroke purely through the crank. Your average 393 is a 3.850 stroke the stock 5.965 rods. I needed to notch my block but it is no biggie you can do it yourself if you wanted to. I did it at my work wit a die grinder instead of the CNC cause I didnt wanna write the program 4 it.

Originally posted by TonyIzCool1
why don't you like those companies?

Again heres my 2 choices

1. keep 302 New Heads, Intake, cam, carb, and put a blower on it.
2. new 351 stroked to either 408 or 427 putting performance heads, intake, cam, carb without the blower

Which one would be better to reach 500hp?

So whats you guys take on this?

First just forget 427.
Either way will work but either way your gettin all new internals so its just pure choice.

Tony,

Whne I said not hip, I ment I do not know them that well:)

GTStang,

I bumped into the 383 stroker for the 351w while hunting on google. Do you know what a 3.75 stroke would yield. I have a choice of a 3.75, 3.85, 4.00, or 4.10 stroke for my scat kit. I am leaning towards the 3.75 since I have the Cobra intake. Would you agree? Your mains a 3" right?

Notching, no biggy. I have a grinder as well:) Pneumatic tools RAWK.

3.750 stroke wit a 30 overbore being 4.030= 382.7 CU

Here is the thing with a Ford 383, You have a block with a taller deck. Take advantage of it run a 393. Depending on amount of boost you run with the Turbos use inverted dome pistons if necessary. Other thing is you may run into trouble with a stroker kit. Piston selection is very important if you going FI. Also what rods they giving you?
Also you def want Ductile Iron top rings for FI, and low tension oil rings to save some parasitic loss..

I am going to be running a custom piston, since they quoted me only $100 more over the off the shelf pistons. I have a fresh 20 over block, and the prices here in England to bore a block, it would be cheaper if I just went with the custom piston.

http://www.adperformance.com/ These are the guys I am going through. They will make it any comp ratio I want as well. This engine is going to be the bomb(maybe that is not the best chice of words)!

Ductile Iron top rings Got it, Thanks for the advice.

I think I am going to go with a 408/351w would that be a wise descision? Let me know what you think.

Originally posted by TonyIzCool1
Where might be the best deal to get a short block 427 stroked windsor?
What are you guys oppinions on this?

427 windsors suck for street cars. You either go massive bore (4.125) and 4" stroke or .060 over and 4.125" stroke. Either way, a 408/414 is a better choice. My car with a 414 has plenty of oats to run down nearly anything off the bottle, and even though i've only used the first stage plate kit it's no contest. If you want to go turbo/blower I wouldn't go 408 as the piston pin is pushed higher up in the piston and doesn't leave you much room to run a big dish. Hell, even with a 30CC dish on some pistons with my AFR's i'd only be down to 9.6:1.

One thing you HAVE to remember if you go blower + 302 is the stock block WILL take a shit on you @ 500 RWHP if you drive it for any length of time. 351W blocks are somewhat stronger, and if you go 302 i'd put money into an R302 or dart.

Originally posted by boosted331


427 windsors suck for street cars. You either go massive bore (4.125) and 4" stroke or .060 over and 4.125" stroke. Either way, a 408/414 is a better choice.


Ok so the 408 would be a good choice then. How do you have a 414 insted of the 408?

I was reading a Mustang and Ford Magazine... and i saw an ad from PAW (performance Automotive Warehouse) they have some engines in there for a good deal and I was wondring who has heard of them and what do you guys think of the company?

You get what you pay for.

Originally posted by TonyIzCool1


Ok so the 408 would be a good choice then. How do you have a 414 insted of the 408?

I bought my block used, it was already .030 over and had some scratches, so I took it .060 over to be sure. 4.030" bore + 4" crank = 408 4.060" bore + 4" crank = 414

if i got a 418 short block could i put some of the stuff thats on my 302 on it? If so can you name what would work with it?

Originally posted by TonyIzCool1
if i got a 418 short block could i put some of the stuff thats on my 302 on it? If so can you name what would work with it?

Pretty much anything short of intakes. They're basically the exact same motor but the 351W has a 1.3" taller deck height.

so if I got a 351w if I change the intake manifold, the rest of my stuff like the heads, waterpump, and such thats good to hear.... Will the motor mounts line up correcty like my 302? do I need to do anything to the tranny to get it to hookup right?

Originally posted by TonyIzCool1
so if I got a 351w if I change the intake manifold, the rest of my stuff like the heads, waterpump, and such thats good to hear.... Will the motor mounts line up correcty like my 302? do I need to do anything to the tranny to get it to hookup right?

Yep, heads and water pump will bolt up. Motor mounts will line everything up correctly but the motor does sit higher than the 302 does. With my car I had to buy 3/4" drop mounts and now the motor sits fine under a small cowl. I'm not sure how it would sit with a 70 mustang, but i'm sure if you bought some mounts from a 351W car it would work perfectly, or ask around to see if there's enough clearance to run a 351W with your current mounts.

thanks will do. I might just get a 351 short block and put my engine stuff on it.....then get a new intake manifold and carb.

If you are going to carb the 351w, get a Steath intake:wink:

will look into the stealth, any thoughts about the Xcellerator? I don't have power brakes so I don't need good vacume and it's in the RPM range I would like it at.

You need to upgrade your brakes, at least that is what I would do.

Originally posted by TonyIzCool1
will look into the stealth, any thoughts about the Xcellerator? I don't have power brakes so I don't need good vacume and it's in the RPM range I would like it at.

Xcelerator is my fav intake for 302 fords. Nice straight runners, better than a Vic jr. for a 302 motor by far, especially if you're using a plate nitrous kit, as the vic jr has problems with leaning out the corner cylinders. It's a shame they don't make em for 351W's though.

Originally posted by SkylineUSA
You need to upgrade your brakes, at least that is what I would do.

I am in the next couple weeks I am getting some SSBC force 10 classic disc brakes for the front, and soon after some for the back aswell, but if i get the power brake kit I might just get a external electric vacume pump for the brakes.

What would be a good intake for the 351w I would like power to start around 1500- 6500 or more

I like the STEALTH for the 351w. Very good flow.

Best single plane carb intake for a small block Ford in my opinion is a Parker Funnelweb. But it is def desgined to work past your 1500rpm starting area. Stealth is a good dual plane desgin and I used one on my 302 for a while, I liked it a lot. But it just wasn't enough for me.

The Stealth is much better for the 351 than the 302.

the reason I wanted the 1500 rpm start was cause i want it to have good power on normal street driving too. Well new plan cause money is somewhat limited.


Get a 351w short block, Weind stealth manifold, and street demon carb.
What compression could i run with my stock 302 heads on this block?
Another question If I am using a 351w block with 302 heads could i also use the 351w headers?

Originally posted by SkylineUSA
The Stealth is much better for the 351 than the 302.

Like I said i did not dislike my stealth but it's not even about to compete with a Parker Funnelweb. On a 302 or 351

Originally posted by GTStang


Like I said i did not dislike my stealth but it's not even about to compete with a Parker Funnelweb. On a 302 or 351

whats the Parker Funnelwebs opperating range? Where can i get more info on it?
What do you guys think of my revised engine plan

Parker Funnelweb, that is the intake that comes from the land down under, if I remember correctly?

Yes, that is the best, but I thought they cost a lot more than the Stealth?

Yes they are from down under. They cost prob about 3X times as much as a stealth. But like anything you want the best you gonna pay the price!

GTStang,

There is two ways to look at this.

A raceing way: Meaning win at all costs;) ie Funnelweb

A Streeting way: Meaning best bang for the buck, ie Stealth

I always look at it as a streeting way:D

Well I want it to be streetable....so I will probally go with the stealth, what do guys think of the Edelbrock RPM Air-gap manifold?