For anyone who hates ZCs

I'm lookin at getting one and i want to hear everyones beefs with them, realiablity problems, problems finding parts, things like that. I don't need to hear praise for them, I just want to know all the bad things i can expect from them. Preferably personall accounts of things that happened to you. thanks a lot!

well the main problem i'm having with mine right now is that apparently the cam angle sensor wore out and is spewing oil all over the place... working on getting another to fix that prob...

You want the beefs, eh? Well, get ready.

They have brittle bottom ends, my first one lasted me about 1.5 months before i spun a bearing and broke a rod. grenaded the motor and cost me $$ and time to redo the swap.

Impossible to match up parts, like gaskets, bearings, sensors, etc.

No such thing as performance internals. Small differences like .1" difference on rod width keeps you from using usdm parts. it's a real pain in the A$$

you can't find cams. The only set that is supposedly out there has issues, and I have yet to hear of anyone successfully using them.

The Si and 1G Teg ECU's both run the car lean, so you have to be careful about how hard you run it, and you should definitely get an analog oil and air/fuel gauge for a ZC.

Weak oil pump gives low flow if you are going up a hill. This is one of the things that really did in my first one, I was accelerating up a hill.

Intake manny and headers don't quite match up with USDM D-series motors, so if you get a header you have to grind away at it to make it match the ports on the head.

They chronically leak oil out the head and valve cover gaskets. I can't get it to stop doing that.

There are lots of different versions of the ZC, and it's tough to tell if you got one from 1988 or 87 or 93. Most of the shops say that they are under 35K miles, and you can't really tell since there is no identifier on the block but the ZC.

The timing belt is impossible to get on right. The ZC's cam gears don't line up exactly vertical at TDC, so it is confusing to try to get the belt on, and then it is very prone to slipping to a tooth off, since the cam springs are fighting you the whole time.

The tensioners are prone to breaking. Get a spare tensioner off a twin cam prelude or teg from the junkyard before you do this swap.

There is no vacuum inlet for the purge cut solenoid, so sometimes you get a lot of gas fumes at stoplights and such.

They seem to be prone to throwing TPS codes, even if you have a good TPS. I went thru about 4.

You can't get a cam gear for it. the ones for the DOHC D16 from the teg's don't work. You have to have a set of B-series gears machined down, which is a pain and expensive.

I could go on. I've been pretty frustrated with this swap. I am about convinced that it is best to stay with usdm equivalents, and more specifically stick with b-series if you want to do any real tuning. Email me at [email protected] if you want to talk about it more.

yeah timing is def. a royal bitch... i don't by 35k miles... no way does a cam angle sensor were out like mine is in 35 thousand... with the si ecu its slower than my a6 was with a cam... i miss that engine a lot

My only problem is stuff associated with the engine being from 92, leaking oil pan gasket (havent put a new one on yet), the oil pressure sending unit leaked, 5 min fix when you change the oil. I had to replace the coolant pipe on the back of the block because it somehow rusted, forming a tiny hole. Sure there were some issues when putting it in, it is after all a different engine then what was intended, but those were only one-time deals. ECU was no problem, because I have an SI,and it runs well enough.

As for parts, the only major things I had to replace on it are the flywheel, clutch disk, pressure plate, and the throw-out bering, I used a normal SI stuff from Honda for that.

Oh, and I have the ZC trans, and the speedometer cable doesn't want to stay in very well, I can knock it out just by fooling around under the hood.

i know this thread is about dohc's ... but i just wanted to tell you guys that I have no problems with my SOHC ZC other than the distrubitor failing on me. Been a very reliable motor.

But yea, I think the d16z6 is one of the best swaps you can do if you wanna keep your stock mounts and use a lot of your stock stuff and not spend a lot of money. If my motor goes, I will deff be getting either a d16z6 (or if i have more money) a b18a

wow, this really changes my mind about the zc
i'm thinking of going b16
anyone got some beefs with that to share?

i suked water into my old D16 in my CRX Si. the only reason i got a ZC was because it was cheaper to buy. i really wish that i still had the D16. it's power was much more useable. seems like the ZC has nothing down low, whereas the D16 still had something there. i havn't had it very long, so nothing big has gone wrong yet. i just think that if you are going to spend the money by choice, save up and get a B Series.

They have brittle bottom ends, my first one lasted me about 1.5 months before i spun a bearing and broke a rod. grenaded the motor and cost me $$ and time to redo the swap.

They aren't great but stock they should hold up fine. Remember these engines are used and you are never really sure how they were treated before you got your hands on it.

Impossible to match up parts, like gaskets, bearings, sensors, etc.

Most D16A6 or A1 parts will work on it. I've never had any problem finding any parts.

No such thing as performance internals. Small differences like .1" difference on rod width keeps you from using usdm parts. it's a real pain in the A$$

Eagle makes forged rods and pistons for the ZC. I'm sure other companies do to. Plus all A1 and A6 pistons and rods should work just fine.

you can't find cams. The only set that is supposedly out there has issues, and I have yet to hear of anyone successfully using them.

Delta will regrind your cams to any spec you want for $95.

The Si and 1G Teg ECU's both run the car lean, so you have to be careful about how hard you run it, and you should definitely get an analog oil and air/fuel gauge for a ZC.

Si runs lean, 1G Teg runs rich.

Weak oil pump gives low flow if you are going up a hill. This is one of the things that really did in my first one, I was accelerating up a hill.

Never heard of such a problem.

Intake manny and headers don't quite match up with USDM D-series motors, so if you get a header you have to grind away at it to make it match the ports on the head.

You only have to port the header about 2mm. Not a big deal for a Dremel.

They chronically leak oil out the head and valve cover gaskets. I can't get it to stop doing that.

Mine has new spark plug seals and valve cover gasket and it doesn't leak at all.

There are lots of different versions of the ZC, and it's tough to tell if you got one from 1988 or 87 or 93. Most of the shops say that they are under 35K miles, and you can't really tell since there is no identifier on the block but the ZC.

All Honda engines have a date stamp on the block, its near the header.

The timing belt is impossible to get on right. The ZC's cam gears don't line up exactly vertical at TDC, so it is confusing to try to get the belt on, and then it is very prone to slipping to a tooth off, since the cam springs are fighting you the whole time.

Only one of the cams tries to fight you. Slip the belt on the exhaust gear and then on the intake one then use a wrench to move that gear up a little which also tensions it and makes it work perfect once you tension it down.

The tensioners are prone to breaking. Get a spare tensioner off a twin cam prelude or teg from the junkyard before you do this swap.

Never heard of this.

There is no vacuum inlet for the purge cut solenoid, so sometimes you get a lot of gas fumes at stoplights and such.

I left mine unhooked up. I've never had any problems.

They seem to be prone to throwing TPS codes, even if you have a good TPS. I went thru about 4.

Once I got a good TB I never had any problems with the TPS.

You can't get a cam gear for it. the ones for the DOHC D16 from the teg's don't work. You have to have a set of B-series gears machined down, which is a pain and expensive.

JUN makes DOHC ZC cam gears for about $300. Not a bad price for 2 of them.

I'm not saying what you are saying is wrong but everyone has different experiences and you can find lots of parts that will work if you do research.

PS FUCK THIS SERVER FOR MAKING ME TYPE ALL THIS SHIT TWICE!

am i over looking a D16Z6?

Definitely stay away from that one. It's way weaker, and you run into a whole new batch of mounting problems etc.

I'm by no means the end-all to ZC knowledge, I'm just listing the problems that I've had with mine. It's been a real trial, and my point is that my next swap will be a B-series just for the convenience of it. it's not that much of a difference financially, just go for it!

Originally posted by FourthGenHatch
They have brittle bottom ends, my first one lasted me about 1.5 months before i spun a bearing and broke a rod. grenaded the motor and cost me $$ and time to redo the swap.

They aren't great but stock they should hold up fine. Remember these engines are used and you are never really sure how they were treated before you got your hands on it.

Impossible to match up parts, like gaskets, bearings, sensors, etc.

Most D16A6 or A1 parts will work on it. I've never had any problem finding any parts.

No such thing as performance internals. Small differences like .1" difference on rod width keeps you from using usdm parts. it's a real pain in the A$$

Eagle makes forged rods and pistons for the ZC. I'm sure other companies do to. Plus all A1 and A6 pistons and rods should work just fine.

you can't find cams. The only set that is supposedly out there has issues, and I have yet to hear of anyone successfully using them.

Delta will regrind your cams to any spec you want for $95.

The Si and 1G Teg ECU's both run the car lean, so you have to be careful about how hard you run it, and you should definitely get an analog oil and air/fuel gauge for a ZC.

Si runs lean, 1G Teg runs rich.

Weak oil pump gives low flow if you are going up a hill. This is one of the things that really did in my first one, I was accelerating up a hill.

Never heard of such a problem.

Intake manny and headers don't quite match up with USDM D-series motors, so if you get a header you have to grind away at it to make it match the ports on the head.

You only have to port the header about 2mm. Not a big deal for a Dremel.

They chronically leak oil out the head and valve cover gaskets. I can't get it to stop doing that.

Mine has new spark plug seals and valve cover gasket and it doesn't leak at all.

There are lots of different versions of the ZC, and it's tough to tell if you got one from 1988 or 87 or 93. Most of the shops say that they are under 35K miles, and you can't really tell since there is no identifier on the block but the ZC.

All Honda engines have a date stamp on the block, its near the header.

The timing belt is impossible to get on right. The ZC's cam gears don't line up exactly vertical at TDC, so it is confusing to try to get the belt on, and then it is very prone to slipping to a tooth off, since the cam springs are fighting you the whole time.

Only one of the cams tries to fight you. Slip the belt on the exhaust gear and then on the intake one then use a wrench to move that gear up a little which also tensions it and makes it work perfect once you tension it down.

The tensioners are prone to breaking. Get a spare tensioner off a twin cam prelude or teg from the junkyard before you do this swap.

Never heard of this.

There is no vacuum inlet for the purge cut solenoid, so sometimes you get a lot of gas fumes at stoplights and such.

I left mine unhooked up. I've never had any problems.

They seem to be prone to throwing TPS codes, even if you have a good TPS. I went thru about 4.

Once I got a good TB I never had any problems with the TPS.

You can't get a cam gear for it. the ones for the DOHC D16 from the teg's don't work. You have to have a set of B-series gears machined down, which is a pain and expensive.

JUN makes DOHC ZC cam gears for about $300. Not a bad price for 2 of them.

I'm not saying what you are saying is wrong but everyone has different experiences and you can find lots of parts that will work if you do research.

PS FUCK THIS SERVER FOR MAKING ME TYPE ALL THIS SHIT TWICE!

I agree with you 100%. My ZC doens't have a single problem that was mentioned here......

I don't hate ZCs at all. Part of the build I had planned for my ZC had all the bolt ons, cams, and an LSD.. When I seen the cost of a set of ZC cams and realized I can get a B16 for cheaper, with an LSD tranny, and I still wouldn't be as fast as a B16, I ditched the ZC and when on to something I'm a lot more happy with. (I won't get into it) :p

hahah well i think its pretty clear more people love there zc's then hate them. i'm gunna go talk to the guy i can get my swap done by and make sure he knows how to do repairs, he did a dock zc swap for a guy i know who is more than happy with what he has.
personally i'm not to concerned about performance mods, i'll just save my cash and turbo if the speed doesn't meet my desires. i'm making some half decent cash right now and mom and dad still support me.
BUT! they didn't pay for a cent of my car

I also never had any of those problems with my zc...

I do however recommend doing some maintenence items before install...ie - timing belt/w pump and headgasket...

I don't understand all this about the zc lacking low end power. My car was incredibly fast, ESPECIALLY on hills.



And like the last post...I also will go turbo when I feel the need for extra power. I love the Zc, and its just as capable as any other honda motor that will fit the ef chassis.

Originally posted by 4GZChatch
You want the beefs, eh? Well, get ready.

They have brittle bottom ends, my first one lasted me about 1.5 months before i spun a bearing and broke a rod. grenaded the motor and cost me $$ and time to redo the swap.

Impossible to match up parts, like gaskets, bearings, sensors, etc.

No such thing as performance internals. Small differences like .1" difference on rod width keeps you from using usdm parts. it's a real pain in the A$$

you can't find cams. The only set that is supposedly out there has issues, and I have yet to hear of anyone successfully using them.

The Si and 1G Teg ECU's both run the car lean, so you have to be careful about how hard you run it, and you should definitely get an analog oil and air/fuel gauge for a ZC.

Weak oil pump gives low flow if you are going up a hill. This is one of the things that really did in my first one, I was accelerating up a hill.

Intake manny and headers don't quite match up with USDM D-series motors, so if you get a header you have to grind away at it to make it match the ports on the head.

They chronically leak oil out the head and valve cover gaskets. I can't get it to stop doing that.

There are lots of different versions of the ZC, and it's tough to tell if you got one from 1988 or 87 or 93. Most of the shops say that they are under 35K miles, and you can't really tell since there is no identifier on the block but the ZC.

The timing belt is impossible to get on right. The ZC's cam gears don't line up exactly vertical at TDC, so it is confusing to try to get the belt on, and then it is very prone to slipping to a tooth off, since the cam springs are fighting you the whole time.

The tensioners are prone to breaking. Get a spare tensioner off a twin cam prelude or teg from the junkyard before you do this swap.

There is no vacuum inlet for the purge cut solenoid, so sometimes you get a lot of gas fumes at stoplights and such.

They seem to be prone to throwing TPS codes, even if you have a good TPS. I went thru about 4.

You can't get a cam gear for it. the ones for the DOHC D16 from the teg's don't work. You have to have a set of B-series gears machined down, which is a pain and expensive.

I could go on. I've been pretty frustrated with this swap. I am about convinced that it is best to stay with usdm equivalents, and more specifically stick with b-series if you want to do any real tuning. Email me at [email protected] if you want to talk about it more.

I've never heard of any of these problems and the ZC was standard in our Si ED/EF CRXs and the Si EG. It's a great motor and is extremely tough - there was one over here setup as a hillclimber (Car was an '86 JDM Si) pumping out 200bhp at the flywheel NA - no gas. A lot of its records for its class are still unbroken. I figure that makes it good - hell, Emil got his to run to 8000 rpm - until he blew it up :p

Originally posted by Setanta
hell, Emil got his to run to 8000 rpm - until he blew it up :p

Ya, and Dark Syde Racer had his under boost... Until he blew it up. :p

Like many people said my ZC has never given me trouble. The only trouble I had with it was intially getting it to run because I bought it from the guy and he gave it to me in a bunch of pieces. Its really hard to put something back together without ever seeing what it looked like before. So that was a bitch to do but once I figured it all out everything has worked great.

As for low end power mine seems just fine. It really kicks in at 5k but during daily driving I never even rev that high. So in the low rpms I'm at its fine, it never bogs or anything.

<-----big ZC hater.

Okay so I have an 88 CRX HF. I did an engine swap. Not a ZC.
I did a 1.5L DX block with 1.6 Si 16valve heads and cold air intake.

Reasons for this over a ZC engine.

ZC requires new trans, cv's, hubs, basically front area. Cost....WOW a lot.
Then you have to buy the ZC itself...cost....WOW even more money gone.
After all that you have to spend some more money on the ECU.

Once all that is done you need to upgrade the suspension and engine mounts to handle a heavier engine.

Finally you get around to all the wirring of this engine.

Anyways after a very long time and a large amount of money you could have your car running at 130hp....hmm that sounds a little lame to me.


I did a 1.5L not a 1.6L. 1.5L has lighter engine parts then the 1.6L. Which is much more noticable then a .1L increment.

Rebuilt the engine fully, put on a cold air intake, and an Si ECU, all for a little under 275.00 The actuall price after having my parts shipped was $273.42

Did a dyno test and hey what do ya know. I'm already at 112HP. Thats only 17hp behind the ZC and yet my wallet is still full, and my car is done.

On top of that the 1.5L and 1.6L have much more abundent of parts around and they are cheaper. Everyone and their brother has a ZC now a days. So timming gears, headers, intakes, all that fun stuff is MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper.

I already through on a timming gear, exhaust and a few other parts to tweak the car a bit and beat my friends CRX with the ZC 2 weeks ago.

Next comes the fuel rail, injectors, camshaft, and others.

So don't under estimate the power of a sohc.

Originally posted by travis_118
I agree with you 100%. My ZC doens't have a single problem that was mentioned here......

but you fully rebuilt yours before you put it in and upgraded the internals right?

Originally posted by riceriderjade

i'm thinking of going b16
anyone got some beefs with that to share?


I guess ur not gonna hear much of that since its one of the best honda motors out there. The only beef i got with b16 is that they are torqueless and thats why i'm swappin out the block to a 1.8 c5 !:wink:

ZC requires new trans, cv's, hubs, basically front area. Cost....WOW a lot.

You could have very well used your HF tranny. All the 88-91 cable L3s will bolt right up and work just fine with your stock axles and hubs. The only time you would need new hubs or axles is if you run the ZC intermediate shaft then you need 26 spline hubs and 90-93 Integra axles.

Then you have to buy the ZC itself...cost....WOW even more money gone.

Cost me $450 for engine, tranny, axles, ECU, all the plugs, injector box, 99% of everything I needed.

After all that you have to spend some more money on the ECU.

My junkyard lets ECUs go for $20, big deal.

Once all that is done you need to upgrade the suspension and engine mounts to handle a heavier engine.

Wrong, your stock mounts will work fine.

Finally you get around to all the wirring of this engine.

Its not hard at all. Plus you have an HF, they are MPFI, all you would have to do is run 2 wires, big deal.

Anyways after a very long time and a large amount of money you could have your car running at 130hp....hmm that sounds a little lame to me.

And you had to take your old engine part and you have a weak bottom end. Seems like more work to me.


I did a 1.5L not a 1.6L. 1.5L has lighter engine parts then the 1.6L. Which is much more noticable then a .1L increment.

Lighter, but less torque. Torque diffence will make up for the weight.

FourthGenHatch just bustin the lead out
where did you get a zc that cheap??
dohc? 30000km rule?

n/m i read your post earlier

Originally posted by riceriderjade
FourthGenHatch just bustin the lead out
where did you get a zc that cheap??
dohc? 30000km rule?

Local guy. He upgraded to LS/VTEC.

If anyone wants a cheap engine and doesn't need it ASAP do it like I did. Find someone locally selling the engine, basically a 3rd hand engine. I estimate the guy who had the engine probably put tops of 20,000 miles on it, if even that. So thats like 50k/60k on my engine, if it lasts as long as my old engine I have about 120,000 miles I can still put into it. Very good. The guy before me put in all new belts, water pump, etc... all the goods. So I never had to mess with anything except I put in a new clutch. So if anyone wants to find a deal find someone who had a ZC and is upgrading to a B-series or something. Most people will probably be happy just to get the ZC and all that crap out of their garage.

You are buying a USSSSSSSSED motor and you expect them to be perfect? Oh come on. You actually believe an 88-91 motor is going to have "20k miles" like all those JDM places advertise? get real!

If you live in CA dont get one. Thats all i gotta say.

Originally posted by sparq
You are buying a USSSSSSSSED motor and you expect them to be perfect? Oh come on. You actually believe an 88-91 motor is going to have "20k miles" like all those JDM places advertise? get real!

Yep i agree! Alot of ppl dont mind the mileage cause they usually buy them to rebuild them.....like me:smile:

another zc vs b16 thread :biggrin: ha.....


the zc is great.... but (yes there is always a but) a b16 is better (in a way)

if you want insane hp numbers then go with a b16.... if you want decent number (under 200) then the zc is your engine.

i have had no problems since i got mine, other then the horrible track times.... but thats my falt i cant' drive.

the zc is your best bang for your buck.... now get that zc jade :biggrin: