Tourocharger Compatability

My 1991 Eclipse GSX Turbo needs a turbo automatic transmission, 124000 miles but a good engine otherwise. extrememotorsports.com lists a TD05 16G Compressor Wheel (versus the 14B wheel)with a TD05H 7 cm exhaust housing. I believe factory turbo is a TD04 14B wheel. Not looking to push my engine to the limits but the price on this seems as good or better than any TD04 turbo that I can find. Is this turbo compattable without modifications and are there any pros or cons to using this turbo.

Thanks for any advice.

The Turbo automatic 1G cars came with a 13G turbo. Slightly smaller turbo than the 14B that came on the 5-spd cars , with good low rpm spool characteristics to offset the auto tranny's natural slowness off the line. Not sure why you'd want a TD04 turbo , that basically the T-25 , as what came in the 2G cars. As far as I know , the BIG 16G , small 16G and 20G turbo's , which all use the 7cm housing , is 100% compatible with the stock 1G exhaust manifold. The only thing you may lose is a touch of driveability. Without the ability to rev before you take off , the turbo will spool that much slower. Not to mention even the Turbo auto trans is not really up to the HP output of a 16G. I would suggest a 5spd swap , you'll be a lot happier.

thats all wrong, the 14 B wont go in the 13G place. autos have smaller exhaust manis than 5 speeds,youll need a new manifold for one.the td04 is not the t-25 in the 2g,we have tdo5's. tdo4 is the 13G that the stock auto comes with also the stock 3000gt had twin td04's.get a used mani from a 1G 5 speed then you can go 14B.also the 16G,big 16G and 20G all bolt upto a 1G 5 speed exhaust mani.i suggest a big 16G ported and clipped 10 degrees pushing 17 psi on the street.with that youll love your car and its all bolt right up.also you can go 18G if youd like 16Gwill be about 350hp and 18G is about 375 and 20G isabout 400 with some tuning.oh yea with any turbo upgrade youll want an exhaust for max flow and spool up :) have fun man

If I remember correctly, he's also going to need 450cc injectors, as well as the ECU from a 5-speed. I'm not positive, but I remember reading about this. Also the 5-speed exh mani like you said as well.

Rob

This and many upgrade questions has been answered before. Everything you ever wanteed to know about your car is in here.http://members.shaw.ca/costall/1000Q/Frameless/questions.htm

The t25 is a garret turbo, not a mitsu. So its not a tdo4 or tdo5. The turbos on the auto 1Gs and 3S cars are TDO4, the 1g DSM and 3s upgrade turbos are TDO5Hs, and the turbo on my car is a TDO6H. Upgrading the turbo on the 1g auto does require the correct manifold, but injectors and ECU are no different than a 1g manual except they are smaller. You can keep them until you run out of fuel. Which wont take long ;o) Do injectors and AFC, keep the auto ECU. Not that there arent plenty of 5spd ECUs out there for sale becuase people went with an EPROM unit and TMO... Just remember the 90s are different. Also stay away from extreme. WAY too expensive. You can get a small 16g from SBR for 480. Even though the Big 16g has a slightly larger wheel, both turbos have run 11.5. In fact, when you look at the maps, the small one looks better in most cases. Not worth the jump in price. I always say if the difference is more than 40-50 bucks get the small. The 18g doesnt perform nearly as well in the real world as it does on paper. The fastest I ever heard was 11.6 on a turbo trix car, and I have never personally seen one faster than mid 12s. The 20g is a great turbo in either TDO5H trim (Bushur) or TDO6. I personally run a TDO6H 20g, from SBR. Tons of top end, and I get boost (25-28 psi) by 4k rpm, even with 272/272 cams.

Kevin...what injectors are you running? Sorry for the hijack.:dogpile:

Originally posted by 95 GSXracer
The t25 is a garret turbo, not a mitsu. So its not a tdo4 or tdo5.

Ah , OK. I thought the T25 used the TD04 exhaust housing. I'm not really versed in 2G stuff , sorry.:icon16:

Its all good :wink: Here is my expereince with injectors, but on my car. Stockers were good to mid 12s on race gas and very low 13s on pump. I went to 550s which are good to mid 11s, though I certainly never went that fast on them. I actually had to upgrade to 660s long before I maxed out the 550s because on pump gas, my 50 trim was maxing out the 550s, lol. So I am now running 660s, which I also get up too 100% on pump gas, but only ~80% on race. Now keep in mind IDC numbers are fairly worthless... I ran the 550s well into the 115% range and it went like hell. But for peace of mind, upgrade at 90% like everyone else does I guess...

Originally posted by 95 GSXracer
Its all good :wink: Here is my expereince with injectors, but on my car. Stockers were good to mid 12s on race gas and very low 13s on pump. I went to 550s which are good to mid 11s, though I certainly never went that fast on them. I actually had to upgrade to 660s long before I maxed out the 550s because on pump gas, my 50 trim was maxing out the 550s, lol. So I am now running 660s, which I also get up too 100% on pump gas, but only ~80% on race. Now keep in mind IDC numbers are fairly worthless... I ran the 550s well into the 115% range and it went like hell. But for peace of mind, upgrade at 90% like everyone else does I guess...

Is it a myth that the S-AFC can help extend the injector duty cycle SAFELY to over 150%? And whats your plans , if any , for upgrading to 720's.

Originally posted by 95 GSXracer
Its all good :wink: Here is my expereince with injectors, but on my car. Stockers were good to mid 12s on race gas and very low 13s on pump. I went to 550s which are good to mid 11s, though I certainly never went that fast on them. I actually had to upgrade to 660s long before I maxed out the 550s because on pump gas, my 50 trim was maxing out the 550s, lol. So I am now running 660s, which I also get up too 100% on pump gas, but only ~80% on race. Now keep in mind IDC numbers are fairly worthless... I ran the 550s well into the 115% range and it went like hell. But for peace of mind, upgrade at 90% like everyone else does I guess...

I'd be interested in hearing your mod list and AFC settings, as I just upgraded to 660s, and I'm RICH at lo throttle (read 15-30% throttle=.94+) even with negative settings. My logger, on the other hand, shows my lo-trim at 124 indicating a lean condition. :bloated:

Originally posted by RockinWRX


Is it a myth that the S-AFC can help extend the injector duty cycle SAFELY to over 150%? And whats your plans , if any , for upgrading to 720's.


Myth. You can run whatever IDC you want before you lean out and knock, but you'll never hit 150 if you are calculating it right. The only an AFC will give you when talking about injectors is more capacity when using race gas. For example. You're injectors are at 110% IDC at 17 psi on pump gas. On race fuel you can lean out 20% (for example), so you can run 24 psi before you run out of fuel. Your duty cycle hasnt gone any higher, but I can see where people might get the iliusion of it going to 150% or whatever.

I may have to go to 720s when the next turbo arrives, this week or next. I may just pick it up at the shootout. Fortunately I have DSMlink, so even 950s idle like stock. With an AFC you are pretty much limited to 550s if you use race gas, and 660s if you dont mind not being able to lean out all the way. I believe with 720s you need -40 or so to compensate (660s need minus 32) so you only have 10% range left on the AFC to lean out further, and you should be able to use at least 5% more even on pump gas. So on race gas youre screwed :wink:
If you cant run DSMlink, the translator and AFC combo will get you your range back. Set your base setting for your injector size, and that will pretty much sero out the AFC, which gives back the full 50% +- range for use with tuning and race gas...

Originally posted by LandoAWD


I'd be interested in hearing your mod list and AFC settings, as I just upgraded to 660s, and I'm RICH at lo throttle (read 15-30% throttle=.94+) even with negative settings. My logger, on the other hand, shows my lo-trim at 124 indicating a lean condition. :bloated:

Dont worry about too much at low throttle. .94 isnt bad. When you get over 1.0 you are rich :wink: In all seriousness, thats how useless the stock O2 voltage is. I could go on for pages, just like the egt post I did, about how useless Os voltage is. Maybe later. Just trust me on that for now, hehe. Go by trims for lo throttle, and dont fuss over the lo/mid/hi bs either. Its hard to stay in one particular zone long enough for them to adjust, especially mid. Then tune for WOT using knock. O2 should only be used as a rough guide. And even then its garbage...

I dont use an AFC, but I can tell you my DSMlink settings. I use -32 to -33 for global, or just to cpmensate for the injectors. That takes car of my closed loop tuning. My WOT sliders are all -5%. So you can interpret that this way. My lo settings are -32s, and my high settings are 37s (add the global and wot sliders together).

HEre is my mod list taken from dsmtuners. It should be up to date. Ok its not, I'll make some changes

SBR 20g, Homemade 3" Turbo Back, K&N, ACT 2600, Profec B, 190, 660s, DSMlink, Speed Design 4 spider gear center diff, Shep tranny, HKS 272s, SBR Eagle/Ross short block, 1g head and intake/tb, ARP studs, 3" Home Depot intake pipe. VP SS FMIC, SARD bov

GC coil overs, GC upper mounts, Illuminas, 17x7" mazda wheels (17lbs) with Dunlop SP Sport 4000s, CF hood

That should be all the big stuff...

Unfortunately , those of us with 1G's have to be content with a S-AFC , unless we care to go thru the 2G ECU conversion. Hal Landry has an FAQ on it somewhere. The DSM-link is only 2G ECU compatible , right?

Correct. Thats why I mentioned the other option for using large injectors, the MAFt and AFC combo. Still not as slick as the DSMlink, but ti will allow you to run large injectors for pump gas potential, but also leave enough range on the AFC to lean out. :smile:

Originally posted by 95 GSXracer
The t25 is a garret turbo, not a mitsu. So its not a tdo4 or tdo5

the t25 id a tdo5/t25 is the correct name for the stock 2G turbo.it is a tdo5.i have one.

Originally posted by turboracergsx


the t25 id a tdo5/t25 is the correct name for the stock 2G turbo.it is a tdo5.i have one.

It uses the TD05 exhaust housing on the 2G DSM , but there the Mitsu connection ends. The compressor side is Garret. The T25 is on many more cars than just DSM's , including my WRX wagon and the Volvo turbos ( 740 and 850R and 940 ) Older generation Volvo's used the T-3 , again a Garret compressor unit. All " T " designation turbo's are Garret compressor units.

Thats correct. In fact, I dont even think the turbine housing is a TD05. Its way smaller than the 6cm, and more like the td04 housings on the autos. I wouldnt be surprised if garret custom made tha housing for the t25s, just to ship a whole unit. Just like the 7cm unit garret designed for use with conventional garret turbos on DSMs, which is used by PTE if I'm not mistaken. In fact it has to be. FP did thier own. And SBR's is cast specifically for use with the BB GT cartridges.

Originally posted by 95 GSXracer
Thats correct. In fact, I dont even think the turbine housing is a TD05. Its way smaller than the 6cm, and more like the td04 housings on the autos. I wouldnt be surprised if garret custom made tha housing for the t25s, just to ship a whole unit. Just like the 7cm unit garret designed for use with conventional garret turbos on DSMs, which is used by PTE if I'm not mistaken. In fact it has to be. FP did thier own. And SBR's is cast specifically for use with the BB GT cartridges.

Yeah , actually you are right. I beleive it is the TD04 housing. :icon16: I'm not a big T25 user (by choice) and my knowledge of them is practically nonexistent :lol:

Hey, nothing wrong with that. If mitsu got it right the first time, none of us would even know what the hell a T25 is :biggrin:

Originally posted by 95 GSXracer
Hey, nothing wrong with that. If mitsu got it right the first time, none of us would even know what the hell a T25 is :biggrin:

They got it right the 1st time. Its called the 14B. :lol: But apparently Mitsu decided to try to satisfy ordinary people that don't know how to drive turbo cars properly , and watered down the 1G into the 2G. The entire concept of the 2G was to promote better driveability by making lowend torque more accessable. Bad move , IMO. The only thing that really saved the 2G from early extinction and alienation by the true DSM lovers was the far-out body styling.......And now I'm rambling......:biggrin:

I think the 16g should have been the stock turbo on all the DSMs... But thats us. Some of the wankers that bought these cars would have pissed and moaned about it until they sold the car... Oh well..

Originally posted by 95 GSXracer
I think the 16g should have been the stock turbo on all the DSMs... But thats us. Some of the wankers that bought these cars would have pissed and moaned about it until they sold the car... Oh well..


Pissed and moaned about a 16G ? :confused: Well , I would not include myself in that list. Thank the car gods Mitsu put a nasty turbo on the EVilution. And IIRC its bigger than a Big 16.........:bigthumb: :lol: