Normal for muffler to leak?

just changed my 4 o2 sensors and catalytic converter setup yesterday. changed fuel filter today. started up the car figured it would have issues starting which it did then it started off 1 crank. let it idle a little bit and gave it a little gas heard a pop figured nothing maybe that was just the fuel cycling/air pocket from changing the fuel filter.

went under to check because car is idling kind of rough, whole exhaust is shaking. check the tail pipe some white smoke is coming out but i can't really recall if this is normal for this car and it's age and history. car is a 98 sitting in the weather all these years with little to no maintenance until now.

fuel filter area doesn't seem to be leaking but i see some leakage after the flex assembly pipe leading towards the muffle and then there are these 2 circular holes on the underside of the muffler just leaking steady stream. turned off the car puddle is gone. assumed it was fuel so i checked again it's leaking same thing this time i touched it multiple times. literally felt like just water. smelled it, smells like straight up water.

not entirely sure what is wrong. car isn't posting engine light just yet i had to remove battery last night to work on it usually after driving it a little ( maybe 30miles for sure ) it will post an engine light. have not driven it on the road yet, too much stop and go traffic in my area at most hours so planning to test drive it at night.

prior only codes it were reading were bank 2 sensor 2 error codes and p0420 as well as misfire on cylinder 1 ONLY. i've changed the spark plugs out twice now in the same month. changed all the spark plug wires as well. i've added some fuel injector cleaner to the gas but it was already full so i am trying to empty out the tank and run another one.

the white smoke coming out isn't like a huge cloud. it's very small amount but you can see it.

A 98 What? What engine? Could be just excessive condensation from sitting.

oh damn i forgot to put the make and model XD

it's a 98 ford windstar 3.0L i live in Hawaii though so idk colder climates and colder days i can understand but it has been raining a lot recently usually does this time of year up to around jan. car has been mostly sitting as well for past 2 weeks only drove it once to and from work but that was at the 1 week ago.

car still kind of has a really rough idle as well. i don't think it's the spark plugs or wires though since it only misfires on cylinder 1 so only thing i can think of would be clogged injector otherwise possibly head gasket leak you think?

gonna test drive it around the block a few times later tonight

I' start simple. Swap wires and see if it follows. If not, pull the plug and see if it's fouled.

i've changed the spark plugs twice in November brand new NGK ones idk how long it ran with the original ones i pulled out but when i replaced the 1st brand new set the cylinder 1 looked like it maybe wasn't arcing right there was a small black spot right on the ceramic part under the plug. the entire ceramic was whitish color so it was very noticeable. the rest of the plugs did not have this they looked all the same with some carbon deposits i think it is on the top part where it arcs to.

as for the wires i replaced them with i believe OEM ones brand new hooked each one up one at a time following the proper length and cylinder. I even replaced the ignition coil pack with a brand new OEM one i think last week figuring it could been bad or something.

since i was reading catalytic/o2 sensor error codes i ended up replacing all 4 o2 sensor codes and the converter assembly before the flex assembly as well. put in the only 1 gasket i could find knowledge of anywhere including by the manufacturer. i was looking for the donut gaskets for the flange tubes at the headers but i couldn't find any info even the shops had nothing available for this car that fit.

took it for a decent drive maybe went around the block at around 30mphish 5 times. seems to drive smooth tbh it doesn't sound loud as well like before and i didn't really smell anything unlike before it had a weird smell like burning gas ( maybe it was phosporus smell i don't think so though ) but it didn't have that smell anymore. reved it to 40 to see how it would fair since i have to drive up a steep hill twice going to work and getting home. it seem to do fine.

only issue i still have though is that the idle is pretty rough when at a complete stop. car is shaking but not terribly. then when gasing it off of a start it just doesn't feel right. it doesn't feel as smooth as it should.

as for the muffler thing yea i think it might just be condensation. fuel doesn't seem to be going low i was thinking maybe it was fuel leaking maybe i screwed up replacing the damn fuel filter. engine didn't seem to get hot it seemed like usual even when it opened up fully. tried to scan car but only reads p1000 since i disconnected the battery to change out the converter ( to spray the bolts since it's hard to spray the top part and i already sprayed the bottom multiple times without any budge )

https://www.edmunds.com/ford/windstar/1998/features-specs/

not entirely sure on the name tbh it's a v6 and according to that 150 hp @ 5,000 rpm
Torque 172 lb-ft @ 3,000 rpm

im just trying to learn to fix for future car project; knowledge wise i basically got none or skills. just learning as i go and watching youtube vids/reading various things and basically learning from mistakes/help from you guys

Those holes in the muffler are condensate drains to allow water to drip out. I wouldn't expect a steady stream, but some water is normal. It's the job of the catalytic converter(s) to convert unburned hydrocarbons in the exhaust to water vapor.


-Rod

Ahh I see I thought it was extra fuel from possibly running rich. It dried up pretty fast that's why but it smelled and felt like water

If it were coming out as a steady stream the entire time the engine was running, including after it was up to temperature, that certainly might be indicating a rather rich condition.

-Rod

i ended up checking tonight when i got home just to see if the catalytic converter was shaking bad and if it was leaking. didn't seem to be shaking as bad as when i first started it up and muffler wasn't leaking at all. first time yea it was like a leaking steady stream.

maybe it is condensation only.

Check the level of your coolant, and the condition of the motor oil. You could have a bad head gasket.

I checked yesterday the reservoir is still same level for coolant and oil looks okay but I didn't wipe off the dipstick or check the viscosity.

I was looking online at viscosity for similar issues and one guy had a similar issue but it was his map sensor. I was going to wait until my day off to clean my MAS. I was going to buy the kit to check for gasket leak last though. The one where you pump in the blue liquid see if it turns yellow

Does this have coil on plug, or plug wires from a central spark unit? From rereading your previous posts you have a misfire.

Ir has wires that connect to a coil pack. I had converter issues as well but since I changed my converter those codes are gone but I cannot figure out wth is wrong to deal with the misfire code.

I bought a new tps and fuel pressure regulator to see if those are the issues but other then that I can only assume head gasket leak, or mass air flow sensor which I plan to clean.

Only cylinder 1 is misfiring as well. Feels like it's dumping in more fuel then air when idling then when I gas it after a complete stop for say 1 minute there is some gurgling feel like it's putting more fuel.

I am reading up on similar issues they talk about map sensor and tps and fuel regulator but I personal don't know

MAP, TPS, and fuel regulator would not effect only a single cylinder. Since you've changed plugs and wires more than once, and if I recall correctly, the coil is new too, you really should track down a cylinder leak down tester to see if your misfire is due to a valve issue or similar. If you do not fix the misfire soon, you'll damage the new catalytic converter you just installed if the car is running rich. I suppose you could unplug the fuel injector for cylinder 1 to limit your chances of a rich condition (which is what causes the converter to overheat) if you absolutely need to drive the van before you solve this challenging misfire.

-Rod

Yea that is the weird part but sadly even when i google stuff to try and find fixes it all says the same things but they don't even state if it's multiple misfires or just one cyclinder. vids i've watched same issue some say multiple misfires some don't even say anything just say it's misfiring :/

i do drive it but i mean i really shouldnt but can't do much about it. just trying to fix it ASAP especially since registration and safety is due by end of this month. kind of gauging if worth fixing or just letting it go already. probably put in more money trying to fix it via parts and tools that i could of just gotten another beater.

the down tester i can get i just got to find the air compressor not entirely sure where it is in the house. do you possibly have a dumbed down video i can watch on how to set this thing up properly? i seen 2 so far but i really don't understand what they are doing prior to putting the hose inside. something about putting the cylinder in TDC idk.

also if it happens to be the issue what would be the fix to this? also do you think it's even worth fixing? car is kind of old already just using it mostly for transportation but cost in repairs are just adding up. i eventually planned to keep it for 1 more year until i can save up for a car to work on and do more work on like engine and all that but yea i rather be safe and catch the bus to work if i need to rather then spend thousands fixing up a car that probably gonna cost more then its worth

I've linked to the manual for one of two options that Harbor Freight Tools sells. The instructions for this model seem to make a bit more sense than the instructions for the similar, but less expensive, model they currently have on clearance sale for $25.
https://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/64000-64999/64918.pdf

Yes, you move the cylinder of interest to top dead center (TDC) so that the intake and exhaust valve(s) are closed. If all 6 spark plugs are removed when you do this, you should be able to rotate the engine with a reasonably sized socket and ratchet wrench. Then you introduce air from your air compressor into the cylinder using the leakdown tester while the dip stick is removed, the spark plugs are removed, the air intake tube is removed, and the radiator cap is removed. You'll probably want the air compressor reservoir full but the compressor turned off (unless it's in a different room) so that you can listen for escaping air. You will listen for air coming from the dip stick tube, a neighboring spark plug hole, the exhaust pipe, the air intake, and look for bubbling in the radiator.

If you hear air from the oil dip stick tube, you're getting air past the piston rings and your misfire may be due to low compression. But some air getting past the rings is to be expected, so comparing against other cylinders should be performed. If you hear air from the exhaust you have an exhaust valve that is not fully sealing and is likely causing the misfire. If you hear air from the air intake, then you have an issue with an intake valve (similar to the exhaust valve issue), and if you see bubbles in the radiator then you likely either have a bad head gasket or a cracked head/block.

On a more positive note, if the leakdown is within the acceptable range for any of these tests, the misfire is most likely not due to a mechanical issue with cylinder #1 and instead still related to either a fuel injector, spark plug, or the ignition system.

-Rod

i ended up filling up my tank few days ago or maybe at the start of my work week ( friday ) removed the battery to try and replace the tps sensor since i just got it on friday. screws were SUPER soft didn't want to strip it.

anyways i noticed once the fuel was maybe 1/4 or less it was bucking hard af but when i filled it up it's working a LOT better now. this morning and last night in particular i was at a stop light and nothing. don't even feel it misfiring at a stop light. i had to double check i didn't stall or anything. really weird.

really didn't do anything to the car since but i did 1 thing that i thought might of helped. my van has like some "turbo" type of button not sure what it's called but basically you press it and it adds more fuel into the system allowing it to go faster. i often used this because i'd be messing around of course having fun. i figured maybe this thing was stuck open or something. turned it on and turned it off and that was it. thought maybe it got stuck on or something.

other then that yea i didn't really touch anything else just added more gas. it does feel like it is still misfiring when driving though but it's not as bad so far as before.

Well, if adding more fuel made it run that much better, either you had some bad gas in the tank previously or your fuel pump is really weak and about to fail on you. Do you have a way to measure the fuel pressure at the fuel rail?


This "turbo" button you mentioned, is it labeled something, or where is it located? You're not referring to the OD button are you? I cannot think of any button that would be available to the driver and would have an impact on the fuel delivery.



Years prior, in at least the Mustang SVOs, there was a button for when Premium fuel was used, but I'm pretty sure that never made it to a Windstar.


-Rod

It's probably something like a power/eco button. They don't add more fuel, they simply allow the trans to shift later. They are separate from OD buttons.

yea the OD i forget what it's called it's on the shifter. just press it to turn on and turn off. idk what it does tbh i just figured it added more gas because when i put it on it goes a hell of a lot faster, quicker.

yesterday i tried to turn AC on since i had to pick up the dog and it's hot especially with the car parked in the sun all day. car started to buck hard. when i turned it off issue went away. i usually don't run the AC with this though cause i noticed this issue when the misfire started to happen. i mean i checked the coolant one time over the weekend in the reservoir i thought maybe it was bubbling as there is this hissing sound i can't figure out wth it is sounds like a straight up air leak if i had to guess.

coolant looks okay to me though car isn't running anymore hotter then before biggest issue with that is air pocket i know cause i didn't burp it good last time i replaced the water pump to fix coolant leak.

the other weird part to is now it takes the car a LOT longer to register the CEL idk why i erase the codes via battery or scanner and drive it multiple cycles CEL doesn't come on but maybe 6-7 days of driving it then it may come on again. i hope it was just bad fuel tbh. im gonna try run it some more see what happens but yea i mean other then that it seems to be doing 50/50. sometimes it runs great other times i can still feel the misfire

Turning the overdrive (OD) off will prevent the transmission from shifting to overdrive and will keep the engine higher in the power band at higher speeds, giving the impression of more responsiveness, but also with reduced fuel economy at those higher speeds.

The bucking with the A/C on was probably just due to the increased load on the engine from the A/C compressor, hence making the misfire seem worse at low engine speeds.

-Rod

maybe was just bad fuel. i think i removed the battery last week friday/saturday after my package came in been driving the van regularly now for the past week CEL doesn't even pop up anymore.

car still vibrates here and there though im not entirely sure what it is though. sometimes nothing, sometimes it vibrates. i try to keep an eye on it but yea not even once has it turned back on. seems okay now though my fuel economy seems to be better before i'd run half the tank down in like 4 days from the misfire. still feels like it is lacking power though i mean for speed limits here not too bad but not like before when i'd play around it would struggle hitting 80-90s

so filled up tank from 1/4 full to maybe 3/4th full now. drove off from the gas station and BAM CEL comes on. starts stuttering when i gas it as well.

you think fuel pump is what is causing the issue? seems like now this issue happens when after i fill up past 2 times already. then CEL stops blinking stays steady and starts blinking again. shutting off the car i tried after i picked my sister up from work seemed to help but still same issue.

it's like there is a bunch of air bubbles i guess you could say in the fuel line or something that is how the stuttering feels to me at least. filled it up at the same gas station, same exact pump. last time i used a different pump but im sure the gas is all from basically the same well or something.

Since the check engine light came on, there will be stored diagnostic codes. Have the codes read and see if it's still a single cylinder misfire. If so, it would be VERY unlikely to be directly related to fuel or fuel pressure.

There is likely a fuel pressure Schrader valve on the fuel rail of your Windstar. You may be able to "rent" a fuel pressure tester (with Ford adapter) from your local auto parts store to determine if your fuel pressure is within specification or not.

-Rod

yea it still reads misfire cylinder 1. figured maybe if it was fuel pressure it would have multiple misfires not just the one. seems to have gotten worse though can't even hit 60mph.

Do you think i am better off just cutting my loses now? car registration is due at end of this month thats about $450 not including tax if they tax it. probably won't be able to figure out the issue without taking it to shop. thats probably going to cost maybe $1k+ over here at least. already got quoted for water pump change $1k.

take my loses and just save up for another car to work on. something smaller.

I suppose that depends on what you can afford, and if there's any sentimental value to this Windstar. You at least know what ISN'T wrong with the vehicle. If you buy something else, you would be starting over at square one. Although if what you replace this with runs well at the time, you will be ahead from that perspective.

There's a good chance the Windstar will nickel and dime you for the remainder of your ownership, and even if you put the money and time into fixing it and making it reliable, it's unlikely you'll get that money back out of it if you sell it within the next couple of years.

-Rod

thanks yea that is what my friend who works on cars who tried to teach me told me. says it wasn't worth investing time/money into before i get "attached". ended up just paying for the registration and gonna let the safety expire but my dad is already looking at a new car since he wants something due to sentimental value on his work truck he doesn't want to run it up in mileage.

as for me yea i am also looking at a brand new car or at least something lower in mileage. maybe in a few months i will be ready for purchase or at least put a decent down payment on it.

other then that i got another friends husband whom i met back in college me and his wife majored in the same thing. he is a mechanic but yea he wanted to check out the van i told him though what i already have done but figure let him drive it and maybe he can diagnose from there.

i think my dad wants to keep the van at least to take his dog out walking everyday mileage wise it's not bad. he might trade it in get something at least so i can get a new car plus it's just gonna take up garage space otherwise.

thanks for all the help btw. really appreciate it i mean idk jack shit about cars or fixing cars so i appreciate your patience especially if i had dumb questions.