Spun Rod bearing 3.8

I have just spun #1 rod bearing. It didn't run long damaged and not under much load, so the crank, while damaged wasn't all that bad. It did have some scores, which I was able to polish out to an acceptable limit( not perfect)
I know the proper way to address this is to have the crank resurfaced, but for several reasons that just is not feasible, I have to work with what I have in frame.
The other journals are in good shape, and I have replaced them with standard bearings. The best I could find for #1 was a .001 undersized bearing, was hoping for at least a .002, but I guess they don't make them. In fact, parts for this engine are becoming an issue in Canada it seems, rather surprising as GM stuffed the 3800 into just about everything they made save full size trucks.
Now it has a noticeable play up and down on the crank, with an audible clunk as I do that.
Using plastigauge I seem to have about .004 clearance, about twice the GM spec, of .0022.
I am wondering if anyone out there has had any similar experiences with large bearing clearances, and the eventual outcome. Perhaps thicker oil helped, or has anyone found any bearings that might be more appropriate? Or have had similar clearances, did the engine last?
any input welcome, thanks
Jeff

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a lot of guys have had problems when doing backyard rebuilds on the 3800. One of the theories is about the block "twisting" when the girdle is removed. (I may be misremembering because its been years, and I am half asleep.)

Back when I was on the Grand Prix forums there were many, many people that did home rebuilds and the engine didn't even last past the start up. Some of these weren't even spun bearing issues, just "rebuild while down" type of things.

Jeff,
Stealthee is right.. those 38s are a pain for shade tree tech.. not saying you can't; i'm just saying it may be the mom grocery getter, not the highway clipper anymore.. OR, it could have a very quick start and stop life..
if anyone were to make your bearing, it would be Michigan/Clevite 77..
if you can afford, it might be better for a crank kit; but if not, at minimum i'd get newer bolts and threadlock the 'p' out of them, as GM always built strong bottom ends for that 100k, zero maint.(in theory); so as close to 0 tolerence is best, or it won't be just rod#1..

Thank you both both for your input, I realize cutting corners does come with significant risks. I am dismayed by your reports that back yard repairs seem to have such a poor success rate. I have several options to consider before deciding on exactly how I will proceed, and will update when done.
Once again, thank you
Jeff

Jeff, i am not saying they are not rebuildable.. it is just way easier and cheaper to swap a salvage yard one in.. "These engines are fussy to rebuild.. You have to follow the directions in the service manual carefully and use the torque specs and steps.... And in rebuilding there are things that you should have learned from an old back in the day gearhead... Its amazing what you can learn from a guy who has rebuilt many engines and the little things you look for during the rebuild... Little things like clearance, not touching the face of the bearings with you fingers.. They have to be installed carefully and lubed very well... Any of the things you do can make this engine live for ever or spin a bearing in a hurry... In the end, it is cheaper to find a low mileage motor and give it a few updates.. Less headache too
if you cannot find a Michigan/Clevite 77 bearing for your swap, Sealed Power is another popular brand that caters to specialty sizings.. and EPWI or EPGI (engine performance warehouse/ engine parts group) in denver or wheatridge, colorado carries ALL sizes made; AND crank kits, if you want to just drop and do all..
if you can't find the size for your #1, you could have a shop weld it up, and then grind it down to the closest available size;--
but if it were me, i'd look for a 3800 in a recycle yard near you with probably less miles than yours, that is pulled/palleted and usually warrantied by salvage center for
X-days/X-miles for maybe $300-500??
put it on a stand, do all your mods (or just freshen-ups) prior to dropping in, and then rebuild yours on your own time; or strip what you want and then scrap it..

Thank you for your thoughts ctesla, I have sent an email to enginerpower, awaiting their reply.
Unfortunately, things a bit different here in Canada than the US. Most scrapyards here dont remove engines over 8 years old, just scrap them then and there. 1995 was the last year for the Series 1 3800, so the chance of finding a decent 26 year old engine here to put in are rather slim.
While most jobbers do list parts for this engine, nobody has stock anywhere. It was for that reason we purchased to 2108 Chrysler pacifica a little over a year ago, as the rationale that renting a car when waiting for parts was cheaper than car payments got a bit thin. Many US jobbers have the parts, but shipping here can get outrageous. E bay has changed their shipping policy, may benefit seller but buyer take a pounding- set of con rod bearings listed for just under $30, but over $60 shipping!.
In the end it will come down to the economics. While I do enjoy very much driving this van, it is not a collector car worthy of sinking a huge pile of money into.
I would appreciate all who can chime in on what I would expect to need to replace if the engine were pulled. Obviously, bearing, and the crank refinished. #1 con rod shows some somme so it will have to be replaced, so heads come off. Would it be unreasonable to hope for cylinder bores to be reusable with only a cleaning? Almost 300K KM on it, regular oil changes at 5K KM, AC or Wix filters. Also lifters, cam? I would plan on refreshing at least valve guides and seals, perhaps refinish valve faces and seats, change out timing chain, oil pump.. Any thoughts on cam and balance shaft bearings?
Gm also calls out that the engine cradle to body bolts be changed out once removed, not sure where those are obtainable from.
Finally, not even sure if I can even remove the engine. I dont have access to a hoist so it will be by devising some way of lowering the cradle onto a wheeled platform and then lifting the body off it, by jacking and cribbing. Again, any input from anyone who has been there, done that will be most welcome
Sorry for the lengthy post.
Jeff

I'm not sure it would work exactly the same, but when we pulled the engine/subframe out of my cousin's 07 Civic Si we unbolted everything up top, then suspended the engine (we had a hoist) then once suspended undid the subframe bolts. We then placed a furniture dolly under it and lowered the assembly onto the dolly.

At this point we backed the hoist up and chained it to the front crash bar (we had removed the front bumper cover) and lifted the car high enough to then roll the subframe assembly out from under it.

We had placed the rear tires up on ramps so that we didn't have to lift the front super high too. Once the assembly was out from under it we lowered the car back onto jack stands.

You have to get the front pretty high for the engine to clear the bottom of the vehicle. I don't think you'll have enough height to do it with a jack. I also don't know how you'd expect to lower the engine /subframe onto a dolly without a way to suspend it.

Jeff,
i feel your pain.. US during bush and obama admins had 'cash4clunker' scrap plans with planned obsolescence of non-OBDII vehicles which killed many OEM parts.. granted we still have many recycle yards that held out, but even many aftermarket components are not being made after 15-20yrs after corporate production ceased..
that said, i also know that a friend visiting from the Great White (not the 90s rock band), asked me to order an HP/Compaq laptop battery for him, as cost up there AND the shipping/taxes/tariffs; i told him i'd just buy him a new computer, jeez!
so, you are backed into corner even prior to the logistics of yanjking a whole engine; even if you found one.. that being said, your U-body engine (L27) was used in Lumina APVs (if FWD, not RWD), Olds Silouette, some Bonnevilles, Park Avenues, and Olds 88s and 98s.. so shop around.. might find one that grandpa/ma have parked in the back, when they bought a cruze or a lincoln, haha..
as far as if you were to pull and swap; if your home has a garage, a hoist can be rented; but honestly, all GM FWD vehicles, it is almost easier to disconnect everything on the K-frame, and jack/lift the car/vehicle away from the entire wheel-to-wheel: struts, eng/trans, all of it; right in front of you, and easy to walk around/work on, and then reinstall as a complete unit..
-- IF, you decide on rebuild; rather than lower end crank kit only and running the rest at current mileage, while having it out some components could be re-used such as pistons, and just hone the walls, and replace rings; but once you are here, you have to decide mild rebuild, or go a little extra for all new and know an extra 200-300k (but frame, suspension, transmission all still aging??) can be attained from engine..
but yes, at minimum timing set, oil pump; and if motor's cracked open, new cam and bearings for sure..
as to your 'cradle' bolts (K-frame), i think they are GM#10407148 ; three to five bucks ea.. i can double check this if you want; but you 'can' re-use old; just hi-strength red threadlock the crap out of them..
if you are going to hold on to the poncho, PM/DM me and i can get you an alldata dvd service disc for your vehicle..

All of that having been said, it is possible to replace main and rod bearings in place, although it is no picnic.

http://www.wwdsltd.com/files/Buick231S1CrankBearings.jpg

http://www.wwdsltd.com/files/Buick231S1CrankView.jpg

It was marginally successful, and using the original oil pump it made a fully hot pressure in DRIVE with AC and all accessories on at 25-26 PSIG after the bearing replacement. It was marginally successful since it had around 149,950 when the bearings were changed, and I only had it for another 7 years and drove it up to 225,010 miles when I sold it, so I really don't know what the long-term success rate was.

Incidentally, that was a 1995 LeSabre, using Mobil1 10W30 and a PF-52 filter. According to my notes, the worst main bearing was #2 (the thrust main). The rod bearings were all about equally worn. I ordered stock bearings since most of the wear was in the shells, not the journals.

If you go that route, be ABSOLUTELY certain that you follow the factory directions for torquing the cap bolts, NO shortcuts.

If you have a 1996 or later K engine:
Torque each cap bolt evenly to 26 ft/lb, working from the center caps outward; Turn each cap bolt an additional 50°.

If you have an older K or L engine, the procedure is different:
Evenly torque all cap bolts to 52 ft/lb to seat the caps and shells, working from the center caps outward; Back off each cap bolt 360° (a full turn); Torque each cap bolt to 15 ft/lb; Torque all cap bolts to 54 ft/lb; Turn each cap bolt an additional 35°, working from the center outward; Repeat the 35° additional turn in TWO MORE steps (a total of three passes) for a total of 105° after the 54 ft/lb stage.

Thank you for the replies. Blue Bowtie, may I ask what prompted you to change the bearings out? With mine it was a sudden knock after a high RPM stint. Opening up the pan showed junk in the pan, and #1 rod clanked on the journal. There was not evidence of issues with any other bearing, both con rod and mains. I did change #,s 2 thru 6 con rods with new standard bearings. # 2 journal had a bit of scoring and was lightly polished; the rest I just cleaned and put new bearings in. The mains show no issue, and no excessive end clearance, so I am assuming they are OK- I left them alone.
It is the older L VIN, series 1 3800. 1995 is a dogs breakfast for the 3800 engine- both series 1 and series 2 with used depending on the car line. I believe only series 1 was used on the U body line
The issue is between the bearing spinning in the con rod, and scoring on the crank journal, I now have excessive clearance on the new bearing, at about .004 inch, enough that I can feel and hear play on that connecting rod as I move it.
Ctesla, I have taken your advice and contacted engine pro asking if they have custom bearings sizes available, and awaiting reply.
Jeff

My motivation was my daughter running it low on oil for about a 50 mile trip, then reporting a strange noise. I thought I had trained her better than that.

Bowtie is right.. bearings can be swapped in engine in; just a big pain, and that's why i mentioned just a crank kit.. i do not know if engine pro is open (stupid-vid); so if they do not return email/call, their are a couple other parts jobber and dealers that might help..
and GREAT pics Blue Bowtie.. i couldn't find any for a series I..

Ok, bit of an update. I have sourced engine kits, and had a chat with the local machine shop I deal with. Parts and their labour going to be at the upper end of the budget, so I am asking for input from those who have done up these engines before I make the final decision.
1) Camshafts- your thoughts on reusing rather than replacing, including bearings
2) Balance shaft- None of the engine kits list bearings for that in any of their kits-is this something not normally serviced? Are the bearings ( is there a front bearing, cant see one shown in my manual) a pain to change, or better off leaving everything alone?
Reason I am asking is should the engine need to be hot tanked, bearings have to be removed. I suspect engine should be OK enough that a good varsol cleaning might suffice, and can leave, any experiences?
3) Piston pins. Machine shop indicated pistons are pressed into the rod, and the wear takes place between the pin and piston. They seemed to feel that even if I don't have to rebore oversize, it would be a good idea to change the pistons and pins with new. If its a rebore, well, a moot point.

This van will not be used as a full time daily driver, mostly summer use only, as such I am having difficulty justifying a full on rebuild. however, I don't want something to bite me in the backside a year or two down the road, so will do what it needs to make it reliable
That's all the questions for now, I am sure there will be more, thanks
Jeff

A good used engine is your best bet here. Debris from that spun bearing and resultant crank damage went all through that engine.

Jeff,

maxwedge is on the money..

pull that engine for later, and just find one running to swap in..
trying to piecemeal yours back will as you say,
"..bite me in the backside a year or two down the road.."
and it won't take a year; with tighter tolerances you could put together and
within a week or a month an oil pump suck some leftover debri, or a weak ring
crack after your summer trip at highway speed; and everyone is camping on the side
of highway 11 or 63: not cool, well, except at night; really cool/cold, because with a tanked motor, you can't even run the heater..

jokes aside, finding a serviceable engine to swap will be least expensive as DIY cost
stand point..
--- and even if you go rebuild now, a cam kit is an extra 88-130 usd, so if teardown becomes the option; do not cheap out, a whole engine rebuild kit gets you another 150/160/220+K of miles of non-service..

and, if you are still thinking of servicing send me an address, and i'll mail you an alldata dvd for it..

Thank you all for your input, that is what I was hoping to find when I posted this thread.
I have been beating the bushes hard to come up with a new to me engine. So far absolutely nothing seems to exist here in Canada, nobody seems to keep them. I have located a couple in the US, but neither will answer if they will infact ship to Canada, just keep repeating they offer free shipping anywhere in the US, and have to buy today as their offer is valid only for one day.
If it seems unlikely that, once the old engine is out and dismantled, that there isn't a good chance to be successful in flushing all the debris out, then it doesn't make much sense to proceed with a rebuild of the existing engine. Last thing I need is a loud ' I told you so' from the better half...

now see, the 'i told you so' would then become a challenge;
"..don't tell me what i can't do.."
but honestly, since it is spare, you have time; AND- you'll need to yank, regardless of rebuild or swap out..
as to finding one: LKQ online is a recycler in america; and lo and behold, haha, the first one on the list is 120mi. from me in denver--
https://www.lkqonline.com/1995-pontiac-van-engine-assembly/-h3P3DjcnnP

i do believe they offer shipping to the north..
and, at only 500-700 for the whole assembly, you could buy two for cost of rebuild..
then you'd be covered for another 20yrs; or until a kid fell through the rotted out floor pan..

Thank you for the reply ctesla, I appreciate you looking out here. I have been dealing with another seller, which I think is listing those exact engines in OR and CO, but they will not confirm if they will ship to Canada.( They also want more, but offer free shipping anywhere in US) Sadly the site you sent specifically states they will not ship anywhere but the lower 48, mentioning they will not ship to Canada, Mexico or Europe.
Will still keep looking
Jeff

if LKQ does not ship to canada;
first- might email them and see if they do not ship residential, if they ship commercial?
i had them ship an audi trans. once to puerto rico, but i could not 'receive' it down there for the customer.. i had to have it shipped to a shop there and pay the freight..
two- if that is not option, could get it shipped to shop in buffalo.. then go pick up; i know, its couple hundred miles each way, but still, if you cannot find up there, might be an option..
3- find a complete other Pontiac (i have 2 S10s and 3 Fieros specifically for spares out here in the outback, while i find replacements) and have a transport company deliver; or fly down and drive it back.. i know that sounds extreme, but if you are attached, then it might be worth..
one in dayton, ohio:
https://www.jdpower.com/detail/1994/pontiac/trans-sport/beavercreek-oh/1gmdu06l7rt222386
HOWEVER- the newer TransSports are similar priced, less miles, and easier to find..
97-99 are found down here with 77-180k for $1000-1500 fully running:
https://www.iseecars.com/used_cars-t5989-used-pontiac-trans-sport-for-sale#id=100493059923

i do not know up there, where the magical date/year was that everything starts becoming obsolete, but when i rebuilt a 196" Allis-Chalmers/AMC 6cyl. engine for a '63 Nash Rambler, i could've built 3 small block chevy engines..

the last option, might be to find a Buick/Olds/Pontiac from pre-94/95 with your 3.8, and buy the whole car; knowing it is in the drive for a swap and rebuild??

So far nothing seems available here in Canada, getting negative replies from my inquiries. ( including remarks second person to request same part-not sure if that was a dig). At least it is getting out there.
I have emailed a freight forwarder in Buffalo who has a terminal in Toronto to see if they could bring the engine there and I pick it up, no reply yet. It may all be moot as it is rumoured the government will be issuing a stay a home order later this week for at least 4 weeks or until covid cases subside significantly. As it stands now, I don't believe even travel to Buffalo to pick it up without having to endure a mandatory 14 day quarantine upon reentry into Canada.
Strange times we are living in. Can get the engine across country, but the final 300 or so miles seemingly insurmountable. It is looking more and more like I might be redoing the original engine after all

nothing like an earthly endemic to keep an Indian from running..
i wonder if you should just find any GM powerplant that'll bolt to
your transmission; and go carbed.. no ECM needed; except you'd
still have to power your gauges..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/293968063067?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=293968063067&targetid=1069765056648&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9028987&poi=&campaignid=11616960427&mkgroupid=113550973135&rlsatarget=pla-1069765056648&abcId=9300455&merchantid=7869894&gclid=Cj0KCQjwsLWDBhCmARIsAPSL3_1uZ3wNdA1yJvTY6lUY YREBQitdGGbc3B1SzayBVwbVOaf_RlfwfRoaAkkyEALw_wcB#s hpCntId

wow.. even ebay only gets it to the border...

maybe fly into newark; and drive home before re-shutdown?
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1402039193492566?ref=category_feed&referral_code=undefined&referral_story_type=listing&tracking=%7B%22qid%22%3A%226948444050656405697%22% 2C%22mf_story_key%22%3A%225325683550839371%22%2C%2 2commerce_rank_obj%22%3A%22%7B%5C%22target_id%5C%2 2%3A5325683550839371%2C%5C%22target_type%5C%22%3A0 %2C%5C%22primary_position%5C%22%3A2%2C%5C%22rankin g_signature%5C%22%3A8199074121179463680%2C%5C%22co mmerce_channel%5C%22%3A504%2C%5C%22value%5C%22%3A5 .1610764142152e-5%7D%22%7D

The problem lies in there is added difficulty in international shipping. International freight is even worse. Then you have the added ability for scammers to scam when things go internationally making sellers very cautious and as you've seen even flat out refuse to ship internationally.

ok.. forget international wall hopping.. how about a drive:

https://www.theparking-cars.com/used-cars-detail/pontiac-trans-sport/1995-pontiac-transport-cars-trucks-hamilton-kijiji/3KWYK761.html

OR:

https://www.theparking-cars.com/used-cars-detail/pontiac-trans-sport/pontiac-transport-cars-trucks-laval-north-shore-kijiji/EELEY8WB.html

is that close enough for you??

Ctesla:
Thanks for pointing out that site, was unaware of it.
I am aware of the first one, been sitting out in a field for 10 years..and its a 3.1
Not sure about second one
Jeff

VIN D - 3.1 LG6,
VIN L - 3.8 L27
i think the 94/95s had greater chance of the 3800.
the 3.1 does use different intakes and heads..

The 3.1 and 3.8 are totally different engines. The 3.1 is based off the 2.8.

yup. 3.1 and 3.4 will swap all day into 2.8 60deg. engine bay with same ECU/ECM and no re-wire.. (naturally have to keep whatever vehicle's upper manifold/TBI/FI set-up, but bolt swap is quick).. 3800 is a different buick/beast..

Well, so far no luck in sourcing a replacement used engine yet, I may just rebuild my existing engine. From what I have read, 1995 was a strange year for the GM 3800, with both series I and II produced simultaneously, and I read an article where the 95 model year used some Series II internals in the series I.
In any event, I am in the process of removing the engine/transaxle assembly, and have a few questions to pose to those who may done this before:
-can the engine be removed with the exhaust manifolds in place. It will a lot easier to address them when out and mounted on an engine stand
- is it feasible to just remove the A/C compressor from the engine and wire it in place to the body rather than disconnecting the plumbing? I was planning on removing the rad to prevent damage, can the compressor be tucked somewhere out of the way? Sure don't want to open up the A/C if it can be avoided
-the rear seal shows a special tool to install it. Is there another way to do that without this special tool? I know some used tools are on Ebay, and if I need to get one, fine, but again shipping is more than the tool, plus it would only be used once.
-part suppliers list 2 different size main bearing cap bolts, one 1/2 inch, another 7/16 inch. Again are these the difference between the 2 series of engines?
Thanks
Jeff

Jeff, sent you a PM..
as to some of your questions;
-yes, engine can come out w/manifolds; although easier if you at least pop front one first.. and since engine is coming out; drain and pull radiator first; and take a marker and mark hood hinge mounts, and pull hood too..
-yes, pull AirCon bolts and brackets, and the hose brackets, and you can drape; or ziptie, that compressor somewhere out of way w/o evacuating r12, 22freeze, or 134..
- on the specialty tool, sometimes can be done w/o; sometimes autozone (and others in america) will have and "loan" tools for complete cost, and then refund entire amount (so free rental).. also, sometimes mom/pop shop may rent tool; or sometimes SnapOn and other tool trucks will have private label (SnapOn sells Blue Point tools) for way less; or used tools from other people who have sold/traded-in for less than 1/2 price..
- on main bearing bolts, i do not have an answer for that tonight..

Update for now:
Engine/transaxle now out, gave it a powerwash, now beginning the teardown. I had to remove the a/c compressor, couldnt move it out of the way without putting a lot of strain on the pipes going to the condensor, dont need to break that.
Left the exhaust manifolds on, as well as upper intake. Did pull the power steering pump out, but think will bolt it onto engine before reinstalling if I get that far. Lot easier to do all these things out of the van.
Are the engine to tranaxle bolt metric or SAE? Miss working on GM diesel locomotives, not a metric bolt to be seen, at least you knew what tools you needed.
As far as balance shaft, I am hoping to find no play in the bearings when I get tio that part. Full rebuild kits are out there, but again the shipping part to Canada might rear its ugly head. I also beleive I read somewhere the factory install might have used needle bearings, replacement use just plain bearings like the camshaft. Also the removal/installation process a pain, so might be best to let that sleeping dog lie
Jeff

glad to hear you've managed it out..
did you have to assemble/fabricate your own engine cradle/engine hoist/puller, as you had mentioned to get that motor out of the bay??
yea, train paks; just like tanks' paks, just SAE.. like your old 60s pick-up trucks; a screwdriver, and like three wrenchs--maybe a hammer..
i think those bolts are 15mm; if referring to eng to trans bellhousing?

they might be 12mm though..

GM has been metric since late 70's. They were actually a mix for a while but they phased out SAE around then.

Mostly metric in body, chassis, and external engine accessories. Many engine fasteners remained imperial well beyond that for "archive" engine designs, like the Buick V-6 and Chevrolet SBCs well into the 2000's. There are a lot of 7/16-14 bolts in a Vortec engine with six or eight cylinders up through 2013. That makes it handy to have lots of a wide variety of tools.

I think I found them to be a mixture of both metric and SAE on this engine..a bolt is a bolt, but just a royal PITA to keep going back and forth to the tool box to get the right size wrench/socket.
I did make a dolly for the engine cradle out of 2X3 wood for the fore/aft cradle frame, fasten to 2X6 boards running left to right. I mounted 4 heavy duty hard rubber castors on it to move it around. I was concerned at first that the whole assembly might need some sort of brackets to keep the engine from slipping off it, but I found once the weight was lowered onto this cradle, it wasnt going anywhere. It was tall enough that I could put a floor jack under it to raise it up to the cradle to undo the 4 corner bolts then lower all to the ground.
Took several attempts at rigging a chain to the frame to raise the frront end of the van high enough without damaging anything. Used an engine hoist to lift the van then wheeled everything out the side.
Was curious about the engine/bellhousing bolts only because I will need to get longer bolts to fasten engine to engine stand. Have a decent selection of SAE bolts kicking around the garage, but not many metric. Will pull one off then off to hardware store I guess.

1495 Seymour St #2, North Bay, ON P1B 8G4, Canada
Fastenal Canada...
you might have to buy a full bag of 50; but they'll have your
thread as an elongated bolt/stud, AND it might even be shouldered
(won't have to buy washers!haha)

Thank you tceslas, didnt try there, didnt need a pile of bolts for just one use, plus road there deep in 3rd year of construction of an 18 month project.. the Canadian saying 2 seasons, winter and construction. Went to several places, nobody had one long enough to fit, so got a metric redi rod and a handful of bolts to install it on engine stand, hopefully by end of week.
Jeff

that'll work.. cut and make your own length stud.. down here though; most of our hardware stores only carry like 3 sizes of all thread (redi rod), and they are all SAE..
glad to hear you're still carry-ing on..
... i think i would've been, "that's it! Pontiac GTP ECM, HUD, and hi pressure fuel pump; we're supercharging this Oldsmobile Silhouette DustBuster!"

Ok engine now apart except heads, leaving that for machine shop. Balance shaft is indeed roller bearings at one end, looks like needle bearings, so just going to clean and oil them, not change anything.
Pistons have luittle wear on the, so unless tyhe cylinders have to be bored out, plan on reusing them. Anything I should know about regarding cleaning or inspecting them?
Main bearings showed a bit more wear than I expected, #4 showing copper, and crank journal has some minor grooves in it. Will see if it can be polished out or if it too will have to be ground. Also #4 main bearuing cap has a slot machined into the sides of it, and it looks like RTV was used to fill it as well as a slight bead between cap and block. GM manual briefly mentions a wedge type seal that goes in the slot, but nothing about any sealer than goes with it.
Trying to remove oil gallery plugs in block to clean everything. I see 2 welch plugs at the front near the camshaft, and 2 pipe plugs at the back in about the same area. I presume these are the main fore/aft oil galleries any tips on getting the small welch plugs out? There is also another pipe plug on side of block around area of oil filter bracket, is that part of the oil system? On reinstallation, are these plugs staked with a punch?.
Was on the fence hoping to be able to reuse camshaft, had a bit of wear on it, till the very last lobe, which had significant spalling on the lobe tip. Guess going to change it all out.
There is a bit of deposits on the pistons, primarily on the top. I read somewhere there is a coating on the pistons, which can be easily removed during cleaning. Would giving them a soak in varsol followed by a brief rub with a Scotch Brite pad be OK? Or just leave well enough alone?
Sorry for the many questions, thank you for all those who share their expeience on these engines.
Jeff

hey Jeff,
sent another message; but as far as cam, i'd put a new heart in if i could..
should be $120-150 cam and lifter kit.. could even (for same price) get an RV grind
make the hills under load more tolerable, and pick up some mpg too..
your OEM GM# 24503401 is cam,
i think int/exh was .250/.255
i lean to Isky or Crane; but GM and Comp Cams are both very affordable, and still
great for the price..
hope this helps..

Well, not the best of news so far from machine shop. Significant wear on the crank, to the point they cant grind it down. Looking to see if any of the machine shops they are affiliated with have a decent used one kicking around, or have to have this one built up and ground to spec. Has anyone gone that route, any comments?
There are several GM parts sites that list a brand new crank, figure would be about $150 or so over the above procedure. Again not sure if they would ship to canada, hope they might go thru the GM parts network and I could pick it up at local dealer.
Still haven't got measurement on cylinders, anticipating a rebore tho
Jeff

Jeff,
sorry to hear that the crank is not salvageable..
NPW (miami based national parts warehouse) in DEC.2020 purchased
and merged with Denver's based EPW (Engine Performance Warehouse);
AND they have a facility right near you:
NPW Toronto
Location 8
8 Chisholm Ct
Ajax, Ontario L1S 4N8
Phone: (905) 619-6662
Fax: (905) 619-6559

this would be my first call (or have your machine shop call, as they might get better,
dealer or jobber pricing), as here in colorado, EPW would sell a whole engine rebuild master kit WITH crank and matched bearings and gaskets; or you could just order a crank kit with bearings to start, and go from there..
but usually an entire engine kit gets better pricing; instead of piece-mealing..
i hope they can help; since local, they probably will have no tariff or less taxation; OR, at least, be able to source it from one of their corporate/sister facilities, and bring it into canada with free shipping; or limited price hikes..
hope this helps..
if not, might start shopping for a 3.8, or other GM block that would be compatible with your heads, intake, exhaust, and OBD-I ECU..
wish you luck..

Still waiting for more info from machine shop, but in meantime looking for some input from those very familiar with the 3800 engine.
I have been searching online at various forums, and most seem to generally agree the 3800 is a demanding engine to rebuild. I can see how it is exacting, but it has been repeatedly mentioned the engines seem to have a high failure rate after a rebuild. I am not exactly sure where the main problem is, but I sense it is the lower end. Has there been any post mortems done indicating where and why they failed?
So far it seems I have 3 options for the crankshaft on my engine:
1) get a refurbished crankshaft kit, is there something I should be looking for specifically
2) get my crank welded and ground, is there something the shop should be aware of? Cost of these 2 options are comparable.
3) there are NOS cranks listed on the web. While of course these would be the most ideal, they do come at about a 40% premium over the first 2 options.
In the meantime still beating the bushes for a good used crank
Thanks for any input
Jeff

Ok, progressing on the build, got the rods in and torqued. Elected to go with the used crank, .010 under both rods and main.
GM specs show a side bearing clearance of .003 to .015.
2 rods fit that nicely
2 rods are about .017
2 rods are about .020.
I did find one NOS rod to replace the one damaged by the spun bearing, but haven't come across any more. Any used ones I find I fear will be as worn as the ones I currently have.
Is there any trick to bring the clearance back to spec? Any possible ramifications to letting it go as is?
Thanks
Jeff

No way to cjange rod side clearance short of trying to mix and match loose and tight ones.

maxwedge, that is correct, the new rod I bought is well within specs. Haven't been able to find any more, nor do I wish to sink that kind of money into a grocery getter.
searched a bit online, and got as usual varying opinions. They were mostly dealing with v-8,s in racing applications, that use 2 rod per throw as opposed to a single rod per throw on the 3800. Some of the clearances people reported were quite large, over .150, so my .020 or so max is kinda paltry.
Basically, larger clearances might result in:
more noise-or not
slightly higher oil consumption-or not.
But both camps did agree on the thing that concerned me the most- the engine probably wont self destruct in a few months
Jeff

Bit of an update. Have about 2500 Km on the rebuild, basic engine runs great but still have an oil leak like the old engine. it is showing up in the rear of the oil pan, around starter area, but I dont think it is the oil pan or gasket. Hard to tell if the oil is coming from above, but I suspect it is from the valve cover gaskets. When I did the rebuild, I put those special valve cover bolts in a very safe place-now cant find them! Just used regular 1/4 bolts and washers but I suspect they didnt seal the covers and are allowing oil to leak. Got 10 (need 12) from a 1995 Buick LeSabre that showed up at the local Kenny U Pull before Christmas ( where was it a year ago??) so hoping that will fix the leak.
Also had a coolant leak showing up under the throttle body. I had used a new gasket when I did the rebuild, so took throttle body off and ran a straight edge over the face of the upper intake, found it warped. Got a new Delco manifold and have installed it.
With any luck, winter going to be pretty much over in a month or so, get it out and drive it!

Another possibility is the intake leaking.

When I had the upper intake off, I did look close for leaks in the valley of the lower intake, didn't observe any. Thank being said, this took place a bit over 2 months since the engine had last been run, so hopefully the oil didn't drain away in the meantime. Will see what this season of driving will bring.

Further update. Now have about 13,000KM on the rebuild, still have that annoying oil leak. Have put dye in the oil, most oil seems to be collecting at the bottom of the engine, between engine nd transaxle. cant really get to see from the top of engine where the oil is coming from, just cant seem to get in there. The back of the engine is damp, at least until you get to exhaust manifold, cant see above that. There is some oil dampness on the head just below valve cover, so seems to the pointing to the cover, although the amount there doesn't seem to fully jibe with the amount that is actually dripping off the engine. Going to remove the cover, and closely inspect it, have seen some posts online about the valve cover itself warping or cracking

Removed the rear valve cover, there are several cracks in it. Looked at front, not much oil leaking, but it too looks like it has a crack, so both covers being replaced with Dorman aftermarket.
Some oil at the rear lower intake manifold. Rather frustrating as I thought I had cleaned everything throughly and put the dab of RTV at the corners, but leak has returned.
Has anyone used something like Permatex gasket maker in place of the RTV? Seems to be a oil leak at the rubber gasket, Any suggestions welcomed, thanks

It seems that your diligence is paying off. All those small leaks and seepage accumulating at the rear (left?) of the engine have to drain off somewhere.

Blue Bowtie:
Not so much diligence, as being fed up with a messy driveway from oil spots. Generally a trip across town results in one spot close to an inch in diameter under middle of engine ( possibly valve cover?) , and a second one much larger at rear of engine, presume from intake valley gasket. This gasket has been changed several times but the leak persists. Once off this time I will be closely examining it, including running a flat edge over head and manifold- think I did that last time but will recheck.
Each time have used the RTV at the corners, but leak comes back. This time I think I will use Permatex gasket maker instead. We used to use that on our GM locomotives built in the 50,s 60, and 70,s with success, but generally they used paper gaskets, not the rubber style.

I get the sentiment. I have a '94 Impala that has about 60K on a rebuild, and it was tight as new for several years. Lately it's gone through oil cooler hoses (again), the oil filter/adapter gaskets/o-rings, and now it appears to have developed a timing cover seal drip, behind the Opti distributor. It looks like Round 3 is about to begin for me, sparring with drips. I don't really feel like pulling a good-running engine again just to resolve seals and gaskets, but it's almost that frustrating and would buy me another 10 years of peace of mind.

It is apart now, nothing jumping out as to why the lower intake keeps leaking. I cant pass a ,002 feeler gauge anywhere along the intake, head and block surfaces, they all seem flat and smooth. I did get some info from AllData about a revised procedure for the Series 1 engine installed in the 1995 U bodies. basically, there is a minor change in the torquing sequence for the lower intake manifold, and both upper and lower manifold bolts torqued to 11 ft pounds,
I also came across some documentation indicating about 2006 or so GM consolidated all the various sealers and gasketing material spec,d over the years to just 2. I havent been able to find out what they are, and if one of those may be appropriate to use on the LIM.

My 2003 Lesabre leaked oil at the lim rear area, after doing the updated lim gaskets, took it apart second time and used "the right stuff ", grey sealer. That fixed it.

Maxwedge, thanks for the info. It seems this area of the engine is extraordinarily sensitive to a particular sealant, and this trial and error approach really sucks.
Some U Tube vids show them laying a thin bead underneath and on top of the entire rubber gasket, as well as a thicker daub at the corners, any thoughts on that?