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2010 Honda Accord: Long-Term Alignment Impressions


RidingOnRailz
06-23-2020, 03:40 PM
2010 Honda Accord: Long-Term Alignment Impressions

In February and March of this year, I had four-wheel alignments performed on a 2010 Honda Accord EX sedan I purchased in January.

The first one, as part of inspection after buying it. The second one, after a full set of new, matching tires had been installed on it.

My impressions after having driven this Accord for three months since last full alignment:

1. Easy to steer and drive in general.
2. Rolls like nothing else!
3. Fair return to center of steering wheel.
4. Neutral on regular streets(does not pull remarkably to either side).
5. Does not wander(constant left and right pull).

But:

On highways, at speeds over 50mph, it drifts to the left enough to be slightly annoying and disconcerting.

This occurs in any of three lanes of a typical I-95-type interstate, and makes such travel a chore rather than a relaxing weekend escape out of town: Constant nudges and right-ward turning of the wheel to keep out of the lane to left of mine, or away from the Jersey barrier if in the passing lane(!)

Again: ONLY on highways and sometimes on parkways.

The most recent alignment results, from the March job, indicate all within spec, close to the center of range. Caster is slightly shy, toward the low end of range, but 1/10 degree of equal side to side.

The Camber angle is a little *weird*: 0.2 positive on the front left, and 0.1 negative on the front right. Using your hands to illustrate, they'd both be 'leaning' to the car's left. Honda calls for 0 Camber up front on this model. Rear camber slightly but equally negative in back. But all Cambers are inside spec. range.

As you know me well, cold tire pressures maintained precisely from tire to tire, 33.000psi according to the gauge I use. No brakes issues, rubbing, binding, etc.

I've read, in Porcelain U., in altogether too many sites on alignment fundamentals that a tire/wheel travels in the direction it leans. Could that be what I'm experiencing - on highways - with this Accord?

maxwedge
06-23-2020, 04:58 PM
.3 degrees cross camber with the lt being more positive than the rt can cause a slight drift to the lt, road contour can contribute to this also, this may or may not occur across all vehicle lines.

RidingOnRailz
06-23-2020, 05:06 PM
.3 degrees cross camber with the lt being more
positive than the rt can cause a slight drift to
the lt, road contour can contribute to this also,
this may or may not occur across all vehicle lines.

I don't notice it on city streets, that's probably because they are mostly crowned properly down to the right around where I live and work. The Accord tracks mostly straight on those, with some right hand drift - which I would expect.

But on the interstates, it's two hands, constantly steering slightly right(between 12 & 1 o'clock), in any lane. The center lane is rutted from all the semis, so the effect varies.

Does something on the suspension 'bend' more at highway speeds, producing this left drift?

What can be done to remedy it?

maxwedge
06-24-2020, 08:59 AM
Assuming it is not a tire causing this, the cross camber should be reduced to as to close to 0 as possible. Other things can cause the this, such as the thrust angle out of range or wheel setback, all these are measured on a modern computerized alignmnent machine, if you had this done, the final printout sheet would show these figures

RidingOnRailz
06-24-2020, 02:55 PM
Assuming it is not a tire causing this, the cross
camber should be reduced to as to close to 0
as possible. Other things can cause the this,
such as the thrust angle out of range or wheel
setback, all these are measured on a modern
computerized alignmnent machine, if you had
this done, the final printout sheet would show
these figures


The aligner I use is really good, and listens to out of the box ideas.

He says the only way *he* knows how to reduce the positive left camber angle is by shifting the subframe. Even reducing it to +0.1 would be better, or 0, per Honda specs.

maxwedge
06-24-2020, 04:07 PM
I'd like to see the final printout from your alignment, I am pretty familiar with this stuff as I was an instructor for Hunter back in the day.

RidingOnRailz
06-24-2020, 08:07 PM
I'd like to see the final printout from your
alignment, I am pretty familiar with this stuff as
I was an instructor for Hunter back in the day.

FRONT:.............LEFT.............RIGHT......... ..RANGE
CAMBER...........+0.2.............-0.1........-0.8..+0.5
CASTER............+3.2............+3.1.......+2. 7..4.2
TOE.................+0.01..........+0.01......-0.08.+0.08
SAI....................8.3..............8.7..... ...Not spec on printout

CROSS CAMBER:.......0.3......RANGE:..-0.5.+0.5
CROSS SAI...............0.4................not specified


REAR:..............LEFT..............RIGHT........ ...RANGE
CAMBER..........-1.4...............-1.4...........-1.8.-0.5
TOE................+0.05...........+0.10........ 0.0.+0.16(middle of range is +0.08)

TOTAL TOE:.............0.15.........RANGE:....0.0..0.31
T/A:.......................-0.03

(Upload image says "resource too large" - too big my a$$!) So I typed it all in

maxwedge
06-25-2020, 07:21 AM
Missing thrust angle and set back, Google both you will see what this is and how it can affect the car.

RidingOnRailz
06-25-2020, 05:00 PM
Missing thrust angle and set back, Google both you
will see what this is and how it can affect the car.

"T/A" in my report = Thrust Angle = -0.03 as of last alignment.

The sheet did not include Setback, but I do understand the tendency for a vehicle to track in the direction of the shorter wheelbase. My aligner did explain that cross-caster of half a degree or more could contribute to unintentional setback, and thus a drift or more severely a pull in the direction of less caster angle.

maxwedge
06-25-2020, 07:26 PM
Thrust angle is not an issue. Have you swapped tires, and or tried to cut down the crosscamber. You msy not completely eliminate this. I'd swap front wheels and see what happens.

RidingOnRailz
06-25-2020, 08:56 PM
Thrust angle is not an issue. Have you
swapped tires, and or tried to cut
down the crosscamber. You msy not
completely eliminate this. I'd swap
front wheels and see what happens.

Do you find it odd that it drifts left only on highways or anywhere else I drive over 50mph?

Also, do you think both the cross-camber and cross-SAI indicate accident/damage at that left front corner? I mean, the tops of both front wheels should not be angled in the same direction.

maxwedge
06-25-2020, 09:27 PM
Any pull or drifting condition is worse at higher speeds. Again, if they cannot get the cross camber near zero, look for something bent, even though they are close, fwd vehicles can be sensitive to this. Btw I have seen new tires have off center conicity.

RidingOnRailz
06-26-2020, 05:33 AM
Any pull or drifting condition is worse at higher
speeds. Again, if they cannot get the cross camber
near zero, look for something bent, even though they
are close, fwd vehicles can be sensitive to this. Btw I
have seen new tires have off center conicity.

It had the same highway left drift before, with the mismatched speed & load tires it came with. (If I recall, one front tire was H-rated, the other, V-rated). Different degrees of wear on all four. The alignment numbers I posted are from the second alignment, with set of four new P7s.

The challenge is getting someone do to something about it: The front camber angles are 'within spec'. It's just where they are within that range that is causing the problem. Even my preferred aligner said "just leave it alone".

But I'm the one driving it every day.

RidingOnRailz
06-28-2020, 05:38 PM
Soooo..

Subframe shift to move Front Left camber angle to more upright, or, replace LCA to restore spec.

Would a subframe shift affect both sides, or just the side with the problem?

maxwedge
06-29-2020, 07:57 AM
It would affect both sides.

RidingOnRailz
06-29-2020, 09:31 AM
It would affect both sides.

So theoretically, if my numbers are still as what I posted, he could go from

.............................LEFT:.........RIGHT:
FRONT CAMBER:... +0.2..........-0.1

to...........................0.0..........+0.1

A slight improvement, might eliminate the highway drift.

Although a mechanic over on DriveAccord forums said any positive camber in the front of any Honda screams "bent parts" to him.

Remove/replacing control arms, on the other hand, opens up another Pandora's box, but could also restore spec angles(Camber and SAI) to that corner.

maxwedge
06-29-2020, 09:48 AM
No real way to predict the change, until it is done, there isnt much movement built into the design.

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