Why the Wing?

I notice a lot of show cars feature a 4' wing on the trunk. These are front-wheel drive cars, mind you. If I may ask, what could possibly be the advantage of having downforce on the rear end of a FWD car? I'm going to continue to assume that the people who install these are idiots unless someone can come up with a decent enough argument to sway me.

Originally posted by Kobal
I notice a lot of show cars feature a 4' wing on the trunk.

You answered your own question. They're show cars. Why would you need any type of down force on a car that is never driven?

You can feel free to continue assuming, you are correct (for the most part). Some wings are designed to provide stability at high speeds (ex. Mugen wind tunnel test theirs). But 99% of the time it serves no purpose at all.

Yep just for show.

Originally posted by Kobal
I notice a lot of show cars feature a 4' wing on the trunk. These are front-wheel drive cars, mind you. If I may ask, what could possibly be the advantage of having downforce on the rear end of a FWD car? I'm going to continue to assume that the people who install these are idiots unless someone can come up with a decent enough argument to sway me.

It serves no purpose on a FF and I agree with you 100%

Originally posted by Kobal
I notice a lot of show cars feature a 4' wing on the trunk. These are front-wheel drive cars, mind you. If I may ask, what could possibly be the advantage of having downforce on the rear end of a FWD car? I'm going to continue to assume that the people who install these are idiots unless someone can come up with a decent enough argument to sway me.
:iceslolan :iceslolan
I wonder the same thing, its not just show cars i see them on cars every day:rolleyes: Most Honda's cant even go fast enough to create rear lift. . .+/-140mph straight line. In a high speed corner the huge wing will make slight improvement but, still is pointless for FWD.

hey man....its just like bubb rubb said!!

"jus fo dekoration mang":iceslolan

yeah mostly looks but for highspeed stablitly it can get scary going that fast and feel like your losing traction.

to impress kids :icon16:

yeah. . . and for those of you 20 year olds (and older) who do "sport" those wings, keep you @ss away from my highschool, youre car is not cool, and i don't wanna be your friend! just buy me beer

That makes me wonder though? I've seen certain cars in which having a rear spoiler actually lowers the drag coeficient. These are stock accessories of course. But can a giant wing actually do this? Those drag coeficient results I found don't make any sense to me. I would think any additional object would impede the flow of air and increase drag.

I know that the '69 Daytona (the big Dodge wing car) is one of the most aerodynamic cars ever built. It has a lower drag coefficient than most cars built today, which allowed the 4000lb beast to hit 217+ mph on an oval track. The wing was there to keep traction on the rear wheels, the nose cone was there to add areodynamics and to keep the car stable at high speeds (it had a front spoiler just under the cone). The reason the rear wing was so big, oddly enough, was so the owner could still open the trunk, but the thing wasn't functional under 90mph.

The difference here is, the '69 Daytona was 18 feet long, RWD, and the Hemi that powered it put out over 500hp, stock. I seriously doubt a wing on the trunk of a Civic is going to be helpful in any way. And they look garishly fabricated.

I do agree that most wings are useless especially those stupid big aluminum ones that stick up over the roof. But there are those that are functional, the ones that are are between 1"-2", they help alot on the downforce of the vehicle even though it may be FWD, if your cruisin down the highway 100+ MPH you dont want to hit a bump and have alot of rebound, the downforce on the back of the car will make it so the rear suspenxion is able to absorb the bound of the shock but have minimal rebound. So in reality yes some of the wings on the market are functional, but it is not those gay ass aluminum ones that stick up over 4 inches. I dont know why anyone would want to put one on either even if it is just a show car it takes away from the rest of the appearance.

not trying to talk shit or anything but you should watch what you talk about.

Someone said wings are for 20 year olds.....im 18 bro, and im pretty sure im perfectly capable of building a car that would have respect at your high school.....

and why dog on someone elses ride anyways...i never could understand that. If you dont drive it why worry?

This looks like shit, buddy. The car would be nice if not for the gaudy taillights and plastic wing.

I'm allowed to have an opinion and offer criticism to others. If I think that many of the "Tuners" out there have horrible taste in aesthetics, I'm going to let them know. The Civic is one of the best-looking, cleanest designs ever offered, which greatly attributed to the 15 million units it sold. Adding a huge wing, overworked body kit, and clear taillights cheapens it's overall beauty, and makes whoever's driving it look like some idiot suburbian brat or ghetto trash. The same goes for every other Honda and Acura currently in production.

Now, whether or not you think it looks cool doesn't affect my opinion one way or the other. But you can argue with me if you like.

http://www.racerdesign.com/images/A2-7.jpg

You are my long lost brother.

That Accord is an absolute disgrace to the Honda family. This morning I saw a Dodge Neon with clear lights all over it, a stock exhaust, some stickers and a big fuckin 40lb wing on the trunk. It makes me sick knowing the gene pool really gets that shallow in some areas.

Those Daytonas are badass and it's unbelievable they were cranking out 500hp cars right off the line back in the late 60's.

not worse than the completely stock blue/green grand am i saw with a big black wing on it:iceslolan

i anyone wants to add spoiler to their car....i say go oem or something close to it:bigthumb:

i say go oem or something close to it
amen

I know some of the touring honda accords that are always on the speed channel have touring wings for the road course competitions. I made the assumption that it probably helps out just a little bit because they are really gutted and really light in the rear?(heck..my accord is so light in the rear one person can lift a backside tire up off the ground)...I definitely agree that you don't really need them on a daily driven honda. I'm not gonna bash on anybody about having one though...unless it is one of those aluminium cookie sheet ones.

You guys wanna see something really funny? Check out this rediculous thing Bomz just came out with...

I hope it's still on the main page of their site...
http://www.bomzracing.com/home.php4

http://www.bomzracing.com/Type_zero_Black.jpg
http://www.bomzracing.com/Type_zero_Silver.jpg

That would look good on my stealth bomber parked out back.

:shakehead

http://www.anti-rice.com/rice8/frontwing.jpg

This should keep the front tires on the ground... :loser:

^^^ look its a honda civic Sprint car. Im still waiting on someone to put a giant ass sprint car wing on the back of their civic.

:iceslolan :iceslolan :iceslolan :iceslolan :iceslolan :eek7:

OMG! I have seen way to much rice in this forum it is making me sick. Down with the Ugly wings!

That poor, poor hatch. I bet she's wishing her driver would get drunk and slam her into a wall...

I agree with Kobal. I'd like that oem look. IF anything i'd like to go JDM. I know theres some ppl think that goin JDM is gay but hey i still consider it oem and clean look.

Going JDM isn't gay until you start paying $100 for flares to put under the dash and $400 for an orange LED clock. That's just plain insanity. I used to want a big wing, strobe lights, etc. until I found just getting clean OEM parts is a great, clean way to hook up your ride and gain the respect of others at shows. You can spend thousands for the "phattest" body kit around, but then what? Your shit's out of style in a year, if it ever was.

damn thats ugly it kinda makes me sick ewwwwwww i think im gonna get that wing on my hood though .................... yeah right lol

yes i have one of those gay, useless aluminum wings. i almost lost control of my back end once flying around a corner. since i got that gay, useless aluminum wing, it's kept my gay, useless ass pegged to the ground. thank you. i like my gay, useless aluminum wing on my FF Honda with massive oversteer and dinky little 1.8 liter engine. and why was i driving so fast, almost losing control? to stay ahead of that mustang i was racing. look, it doesn't matter as long as you can chalk up victories, like the turbo nissan 180SX i stomped 4 days ago. now if you wanna talk about useless, let's talk about hydraulic suspensions, wood trim, and chrome. oh and braile on an ATM;)

If you over-drive into a corner, wing or no wing you still going around. My car is capable of major oversteer without a wing . . . High-speed corners & above 140MPH is the only time the "wing" has any effect.

I dont get the braile on those drive-up ATM's - who in the hell decided that one.

its probably the extra weight of the wing that keeps the back end on the ground not the downforce. :loser:

If you need to be going 140 for a wing to make a difference, then why the big wings on rally cars? They rarely get above 90mph? And those guys are obsessed with weight! In fact the co-drivers sit lower than the driver so the weight distribution is as low as possible.

OR HIGH SPEED CORNERS

around 140mph is when the rear tires begin to lift of the ground, a wing provides downforce @ 2mph, but not much.

Rally cars & street cars are 2 completely different things

URE ALL WRONG! everyone knows that the bigger the wing the faster the car goes! And know what else makes the car go faster? A whole buncha vinyl graphics of companies names for parts that you dont have! And if u need that extra boost of speed, go ahead and put the giant "HONDA RACING" wording across the front of your windshield! Lets see how someones turbocharged car does against that!

:wink:

140MPH is the only time the "wing" has any effect.

That's what you said. So that's the point I was trying to disprove. Sorry if I misunderstood what you were trying to say.

Originally posted by jackasssi
If you over-drive into a corner, wing or no wing you still going around. My car is capable of major oversteer without a wing . . . High-speed corners & above 140MPH is the only time the "wing" has any effect.

I dont get the braile on those drive-up ATM's - who in the hell decided that one.

hmmm, i see High-speed corners & above 140MPH is the only time the "wing" has any effect.


but anyways . . . . .

Originally posted by PreludeMOFO
URE ALL WRONG! everyone knows that the bigger the wing the faster the car goes! And know what else makes the car go faster? A whole buncha vinyl graphics of companies names for parts that you dont have! And if u need that extra boost of speed, go ahead and put the giant "HONDA RACING" wording across the front of your windshield! Lets see how someones turbocharged car does against that!

:wink:

well u see, the turbocharged car would need some decal like TURBOED or something liek that in order for the turbocharger to function..or else that HONDA RACING decal would provide enough boost to whoop a turboed car w/o decal..

my theory is that if you go in reverse, you can fly over your opponent! hahahaha:biggrin:

hhhmmm good point dvdevo... i forgot to factor in the turbo decal... thanks for bring that to everyones attention.

...snooore. thought this was about wings... nice clique you all have going on here. yeah, ok i get the picture: my car should look like everyone else's. oooh here's another one: rims. rims suck. rims make people's cars look different. let's bash that too :P. actually who would want to speed anyway? who needs a turbo? you still can't go faster than the space shuttle with a turbo, so why try? you folks are absolutely right. i'll trade in my stupid understeering FF fourbanger and trade up to a '76 bondo-ed camaro on blocks and not listen to anything but Skynard and Pink Floyd. oh wait a minnit, i almost forgot! i don't give a f%# what you think!

Originally posted by 93DC2
yes i have one of those gay, useless aluminum wings. i almost lost control of my back end once flying around a corner. since i got that gay, useless aluminum wing, it's kept my gay, useless ass pegged to the ground. thank you. i like my gay, useless aluminum wing on my FF Honda with massive oversteer and dinky little 1.8 liter engine. and why was i driving so fast, almost losing control? to stay ahead of that mustang i was racing. look, it doesn't matter as long as you can chalk up victories, like the turbo nissan 180SX i stomped 4 days ago. now if you wanna talk about useless, let's talk about hydraulic suspensions, wood trim, and chrome. oh and braile on an ATM;)

Umm, not trying to start anything here but...Massive Oversteer on a FF Honda? Don't you mean Understeer, not oversteer. It's usually Understeer on a FF, and Oversteer on a RWD.

Oh, BTW, the pic of that hatch reminded me, I once saw a civic 5th gen hatch with a big aluminum wing on the front of the roof over the windsheild as well as the back of the roof above the rear hatch. If he only had thought of the hood too like that other hatch, lol.

Originally posted by 93DC2
...snooore. thought this was about wings... nice clique you all have going on here. yeah, ok i get the picture: my car should look like everyone else's. oooh here's another one: rims. rims suck. rims make people's cars look different. let's bash that too :P. actually who would want to speed anyway? who needs a turbo? you still can't go faster than the space shuttle with a turbo, so why try? you folks are absolutely right. i'll trade in my stupid understeering FF fourbanger and trade up to a '76 bondo-ed camaro on blocks and not listen to anything but Skynard and Pink Floyd. oh wait a minnit, i almost forgot! i don't give a f%# what you think!

Sure... most rims sold today are heavy, and actually take away from the car's overall performance. Not to mention that oversized rims create a large gear effect that is hard to get going.

Some wings do help in freeway situations. I know the Audi TT (which is AWD, but with the front/rear power distribution being mainly FWD) becomes unstable at like 65 MPH (i think). This is because of the shape of the rear which channels air under the back of the car and actually creates lift. The small spoiler counters this.

Take a look around while driving tomorrow, and see small lips on trunk decks. If you want to know what I'm talking about, look at the back of a 3gen prelude..

Aluminum wings are heinous though.

*sigh* yes you are right, understeer. was hoping no one caught that. i did fix it later on tho if ya kept reading. BTW the crack at the rims thing was just a joke. i've got heavy 11 pound each Schneider Deos 17's. For goofing off, i use 15" Sparcos. THIS WASN'T MY POINT. Let me put aside the BS and get to the nitty gritty: almost ANY mod you make to your car is bound to help you, but if you gain something, you also lose something. gain HP, lose gas mileage. gain tighter turns, lose comfort. gain downforce, apparently lose status. WTF, who gives a f%$@ about status anyway? I'll let my car talk for itself. AND NOW FOR THE REDIRECT: who was the one wanting to weld a spark plug after their cat to make silly flames spit out their tailpipe? lofl! yes, i DID catch THAT. here's how you do it: f#$@ up your timing so you run rich and you'll be backfiring out the ass. KNOCK KNOCK! who's there? detonation. detonation who? detonation, better get some new pistons. caught that reply too. careful who you listen to in these things. next they might have you running a hose from your tailpipe to your cockpit to improve the air quality. and WTF is so special about JDM anyway? it's all JDM here where I live! JAPAN RULES!

Originally posted by 93DC2
*sigh* yes you are right, understeer. was hoping no one caught that. i did fix it later on tho if ya kept reading. BTW the crack at the rims thing was just a joke. i've got heavy 11 pound each Schneider Deos 17's. For goofing off, i use 15" Sparcos. THIS WASN'T MY POINT. Let me put aside the BS and get to the nitty gritty: almost ANY mod you make to your car is bound to help you, but if you gain something, you also lose something. gain HP, lose gas mileage. gain tighter turns, lose comfort. gain downforce, apparently lose status. WTF, who gives a f%$@ about status anyway? I'll let my car talk for itself. AND NOW FOR THE REDIRECT: who was the one wanting to weld a spark plug after their cat to make silly flames spit out their tailpipe? lofl! yes, i DID catch THAT. here's how you do it: f#$@ up your timing so you run rich and you'll be backfiring out the ass. KNOCK KNOCK! who's there? detonation. detonation who? detonation, better get some new pistons. caught that reply too. careful who you listen to in these things. next they might have you running a hose from your tailpipe to your cockpit to improve the air quality. and WTF is so special about JDM anyway? it's all JDM here where I live! JAPAN RULES!

I think the idea here is that most US Aluminum wings are cheap ($199) and no tested in a wind tunnel, they are just for looks. A nice C-West wing is tested, and it costs a lot more too. I think the idea is knockin the cheap ass US aluminum $200 wings that arn't designed for flow and downforce, and arn't tested, but instead made for looks. We all know a good wing will add downforce. The point here in knocking the cheap only for looks wings (lots of them here in the US) that everyone seems to put on there car. If someone puts a nice C-West wing or similer properly designed wing on an RX-7, that not a problem. The wing is designed to create downforce above certain speeds and corners. But if they stick a cheap APC wing on there, it's not desgined to do this, and not tested to make sure it does this. It's only for looks, a la the person that wants a wing to look fast and the furious style. And what most people here are saying is that is stupid, do go out and do that. In that case, it does no good for downforce in most respects. Just weights it down and looks. No one is knocking a proper flow-tested wing on an integra or RX-7 you go autocrossing, etc, in.

Originally posted by eckoman_pdx
No one is knocking a proper flow-tested wing on an integra or RX-7
uh, I am. You don't need one of those overpriced ugly pieces of crap on regular little street car. You don't really need it on anything except a 700hp-1000hp+ drag car or CART (open wheeled Indycar) which exceed 200mph. I'm sick of ricers finding excuses to put useless shit on their car because it's "tested" oh wow these wings will keep the rear wheels on my Civic down now because they're wind tunnel approved... stupid... so stupid.

after long, careful consideration, i have come to the conclusion that you folks are correct. those heavy aluminum wings--nay, all wings in general--do nothing but add unnecessary weight to the rear end of the car. they are not made for anything but show and looks. i understand now that my car is just a family car, not cranking out 700-1000hp and that i could never in my wildest dreams make a family car break 100mph, let alone 200mph. and even tho these wings "supposedly" have been proven in wind tunnels, ...well, what the heck do wind tunnel operators know anyway? bunch of idiots as far as i'm concerned. hell, if any wing can hold a car down, it's a "Combat" style wing, not one of those stupid, so stupid "useless sh*t" aluminum wings. I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT! thank you! thank you! i'm so much more enlightened by reading your posts! you will NEVER find these car-anchors on a REAL race car! may God grant you the words to keep converting the Wing Heathens! Bless you my brother!

That image is smaller than your post is funny. :sly: :dunno:

Originally posted by Ricochet

uh, I am. You don't need one of those overpriced ugly pieces of crap on regular little street car. You don't really need it on anything except a 700hp-1000hp+ drag car or CART (open wheeled Indycar) which exceed 200mph. I'm sick of ricers finding excuses to put useless shit on their car because it's "tested" oh wow these wings will keep the rear wheels on my Civic down now because they're wind tunnel approved... stupid... so stupid.

umm, you missed the LAST PART of my qoute. It said....INTEGRA OR RX-7 YOU GO AUTOCROSSING, ETC. IN. That is not a "street car" I refered to, you can see. It was a car built for autocross track racing, etc....not the streets. At that speed and power on a track, a proper flow tested wing designed for this purpose WILL help out. I never said it helped on a street car. Just don't pull out words and quote it and rant about what it says. Read the whole post, and post complete quote. As you see..I am not, as you put it, one of the "ricers feeding this excuses to put useless shit on there cars." Someone autocrossing in an SCCA curcuit, like Boris Said, for example, can use a Wing on his car for downforce in his autocross race. To my knowlegde, and as far as the speed channel showed when televising the SCCA race this weekend, his M3 was a car built for autocross racing, not a street car. No where did I say it was cool to put a wing on a 94 civic with a D15 to "look cool." IF you wanna vent, read the whole post first and understand what it says, because you will see I never said It was cool on a street car becasue it was tested....I said I had no problem with it on an AUTOCROSS CAR....A CAR BUILT FOR RACING. I STATE AGAIN, THAT WOULD NOT BE A STREET CAR !!! Before you go calling me stupid, read my post fully, otherwise you look bad by going off on a tangent insutling me for things I never said, trying to put words in my mouth. Well, I say it one last time.....not on a street car, on a "Integra or RX-7 you GO AUTOCROSSING IN."

I wasn't calling you stupid I was making a general statement. As for autocrossing, at the SCCA tracks around here they get up to about 40mph-60mph depending on how powerful the car is. Whoopity doo. On the road courses cars get up to about 150 or so again depending on power. This is such a stupid argument, wings don't do shit unless you have a rwd 160mph+ car.

Originally posted by Ricochet
This is such a stupid argument, wings don't do shit unless you have a rwd 160mph+ car.

Or a car with a sloped back, such as an Audi TT, or VW bug at 80 MPH.

Originally posted by Prelewd
Or a car with a sloped back, such as an Audi TT, or VW bug at 80 MPH.
I meant aftermarket aluminum wings, sorry. I know the TT's have that problem where air gets sucked under the rear end and the stock wing is actually functional. Some Porsche's have those also.

i have a wing on my car a hatchback.the fact thats its 2 inches tall makes a diff in my world over those big gaudy metal things on the rice around here.i swaer to you that this dood's wing must be 3 feet high. on a 95 accord.and yea that pic of the other accord up here.haha!..if that was given to me id sell it to some retard for 20 grand cuz the body kits and clear tails make it and instant show car. :shakehead :loser: .oh yea anyone see the JDM red emblem?..haha jus thought id knock on that too

A properly designed and tuned wing will begin increasing the traction of the wheels at around 35 mph. That means turn entry speeds can be greater and be accomplished with more oversteer or drifting [than without a wing] until sufficient downforce is applied by the wing. This allows an increase in both turn entry and exit speeds, thus reducing the overall time to complete the turn.

Fact is, if you take a turn "too fast", your back end will slide out regardless of any wing. The presence of the wing simply allows traction to be regained faster, and faster recovery time on the turn.

Note: The above has been tested and verified with telemetric logging equipment on several occasions in varying conditions. As for me, I have been involved with the design, testing and analysis of several cars developed for the Formula SAE engineering competition, so I have a little more practical knowledge than most.

Just FYI.

http://web.umr.edu/~formula/2003_team_at_comp.jpg

http://www.supershox.com/graphics/swin01.jpg

I don't think the average sprint car reaches 200 MPH, or even 160 MPH.

Wings are there because people like the look of them. It might not be the majority of the people that like them, but people like them. Get over it.

You don't have to drive around with it on your car. And if you park next to them, it'll just make your car look better, comparitively.

And why they might not have much downforce capability, they do have some. Stick your hand out your sunroof and feel how much the wind pushes against it. Multiply the width of your hand by like 30 to get the width of the wing. All the wing is probably doing, is slowing the car down, but it still affects the cars performance, at least a little.