spec V on a g20 and how to make a N/A monster
Endless Gs
11-15-2001, 01:41 PM
Hey guys, i was just wondering how can i make a N/A monster out of the original DE engine.....I heard about the stroker kit.....Is it compatible tho??
G-Forces
11-15-2001, 03:24 PM
It's kind of old and some things have changed, especially about cams but give it a read and it should give you a good idea what you're in for.
http://www.se-r.net/about/200sx/scc/index.html#Project
Also check out Georges SE-R page:
http://home.earthlink.net/~geo3/GeoSER.htm
basically the same thing with better pics about the actual assembly.
You can use a stroker crank, JWT has been working on one for a while now...don't expect it to get done very soon. JUN has one too but its VERY expensive.
http://www.se-r.net/about/200sx/scc/index.html#Project
Also check out Georges SE-R page:
http://home.earthlink.net/~geo3/GeoSER.htm
basically the same thing with better pics about the actual assembly.
You can use a stroker crank, JWT has been working on one for a while now...don't expect it to get done very soon. JUN has one too but its VERY expensive.
Endless Gs
11-15-2001, 05:54 PM
so does the JUn or TODA stroker kit fit the DE..??????
and is it possible to make a N/A monster.
I know someone with an Integra GSR and have 260whp...
i would like to get to that power.....but N/A tho........
can i acheive this with minor mods????
and is it possible to make a N/A monster.
I know someone with an Integra GSR and have 260whp...
i would like to get to that power.....but N/A tho........
can i acheive this with minor mods????
jprimera
11-15-2001, 06:55 PM
260 whp!! n/a!! honduh ,may be is 260 hp
jprimera
11-15-2001, 06:57 PM
Li ke George told me ,you will need at least 6000 dollars for 200hp n/a car (sr20de)
G-Forces
11-15-2001, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by Endless Gs
so does the JUn or TODA stroker kit fit the DE..??????
Yes a stroker kit just bumps out the displacement. Blam that's it doesn't matter if its turbo or not.
and is it possible to make a N/A monster.
Yes look at the links I provided above.
I know someone with an Integra GSR and have 260whp...
i would like to get to that power.....but N/A tho........
can i acheive this with minor mods????
NO! As George is going to tell you, get a wheelbarrow of money, then get another wheel barrow of money and finally after you get all the parts and find a good engine builder get another wheelbarrow of money and you're done. :D
so does the JUn or TODA stroker kit fit the DE..??????
Yes a stroker kit just bumps out the displacement. Blam that's it doesn't matter if its turbo or not.
and is it possible to make a N/A monster.
Yes look at the links I provided above.
I know someone with an Integra GSR and have 260whp...
i would like to get to that power.....but N/A tho........
can i acheive this with minor mods????
NO! As George is going to tell you, get a wheelbarrow of money, then get another wheel barrow of money and finally after you get all the parts and find a good engine builder get another wheelbarrow of money and you're done. :D
T4 Primera
11-16-2001, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by Endless Gs
Hey guys, i was just wondering how can i make a N/A monster out of the original DE engine.....I heard about the stroker kit.....Is it compatible tho?? If your determined to go N/A, and you've got enough cash for the stroker kits, there is another possibility ...
Although the SR20VE (variable valve timing and duration engine) has been transplanted before, it appears nobody has tried transplanting the VE head onto an SR20DE yet. On the se-r mailing list Mike Kojima speculated, that with a little modification for oil gallery alignment, it may be possible to retrofit the VE head onto an SR20DE engine. Also, JWTs Clark Steppler has done some work with a turbocharged version of the VE (VET?).
The stock VE makes something like 180-195 hp peak but the real difference is in the higher and flatter torque curve. This translates to something like 20% more power in the low rpm, 10% in the midrange and 20% again in the high rpm.
If you want to be original, look into the VE head transplant. For more info check out the se-r mailing list and this site: http://65.11.246.68/nxindex.html
Hey guys, i was just wondering how can i make a N/A monster out of the original DE engine.....I heard about the stroker kit.....Is it compatible tho?? If your determined to go N/A, and you've got enough cash for the stroker kits, there is another possibility ...
Although the SR20VE (variable valve timing and duration engine) has been transplanted before, it appears nobody has tried transplanting the VE head onto an SR20DE yet. On the se-r mailing list Mike Kojima speculated, that with a little modification for oil gallery alignment, it may be possible to retrofit the VE head onto an SR20DE engine. Also, JWTs Clark Steppler has done some work with a turbocharged version of the VE (VET?).
The stock VE makes something like 180-195 hp peak but the real difference is in the higher and flatter torque curve. This translates to something like 20% more power in the low rpm, 10% in the midrange and 20% again in the high rpm.
If you want to be original, look into the VE head transplant. For more info check out the se-r mailing list and this site: http://65.11.246.68/nxindex.html
P10DET
11-16-2001, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by jprimera
Li ke George told me ,you will need at least 6000 dollars for 200hp n/a car (sr20de)
Originally posted by G-Forces
As George is going to tell you, get a wheelbarrow of money, then get another wheel barrow of money and finally after you get all the parts and find a good engine builder get another wheelbarrow of money and you're done.
Couldn't have said it better myself. :right:
Without boring and/or stroking, about 200bhp is the best you'll get. You might be able to get a bit more with the new short runner intake manifold that is out there and some major cash spent on experimenting with the head.
Now, to put this into perspective......
I can buy a decent P10 and install a properly prepared DET into it for the price of the NA engine. :D
Don't get me wrong, I love NA engines. Just want you to know what you're getting into.
Li ke George told me ,you will need at least 6000 dollars for 200hp n/a car (sr20de)
Originally posted by G-Forces
As George is going to tell you, get a wheelbarrow of money, then get another wheel barrow of money and finally after you get all the parts and find a good engine builder get another wheelbarrow of money and you're done.
Couldn't have said it better myself. :right:
Without boring and/or stroking, about 200bhp is the best you'll get. You might be able to get a bit more with the new short runner intake manifold that is out there and some major cash spent on experimenting with the head.
Now, to put this into perspective......
I can buy a decent P10 and install a properly prepared DET into it for the price of the NA engine. :D
Don't get me wrong, I love NA engines. Just want you to know what you're getting into.
nis.k.a.
11-16-2001, 10:05 PM
Even with JUN 2.2 kit, you would have to bore. The JUN kit is 87.0 bore with a 90.0 Stroke. The stock SR20DE is 86.0 by 86.0. Besides, like everyone said, it's very expensive.
G-Forces
11-16-2001, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by nis.k.a.
Even with JUN 2.2 kit, you would have to bore. The JUN kit is 87.0 bore with a 90.0 Stroke. The stock SR20DE is 86.0 by 86.0. Besides, like everyone said, it's very expensive.
Where did you find the offical specs for this? I'm not doubting you I'd just like to know where you got your info. :)
Even with JUN 2.2 kit, you would have to bore. The JUN kit is 87.0 bore with a 90.0 Stroke. The stock SR20DE is 86.0 by 86.0. Besides, like everyone said, it's very expensive.
Where did you find the offical specs for this? I'm not doubting you I'd just like to know where you got your info. :)
nis.k.a.
11-17-2001, 12:01 AM
www.junusa.com
G-Forces
11-17-2001, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by nis.k.a.
Even with JUN 2.2 kit, you would have to bore. The JUN kit is 87.0 bore with a 90.0 Stroke. The stock SR20DE is 86.0 by 86.0. Besides, like everyone said, it's very expensive.
Yeah a 1mm bore out is pretty common. Everyone that puts in the 300zx pistons has to bore out 1mm.
Even with JUN 2.2 kit, you would have to bore. The JUN kit is 87.0 bore with a 90.0 Stroke. The stock SR20DE is 86.0 by 86.0. Besides, like everyone said, it's very expensive.
Yeah a 1mm bore out is pretty common. Everyone that puts in the 300zx pistons has to bore out 1mm.
p_r_i_m_e_r_a
11-18-2001, 05:07 AM
GTI-R engine, removed turbo+JUN Stroker kit=N/A MONSTER DE
kyle95g20
11-21-2001, 09:08 PM
GTI-R engine, removed turbo+JUN Stroker kit=N/A MONSTER DE
or
GTI-R engine, removed turbo+JUN Stroker kit+labor=too much money
if you figure that the gti-r motor runs 3500+700 for labor installing it(unless you want to deal with it yourself)+stroker kit (who knows how much)+labor on the milling=well...as you know more than 6 grand
or
GTI-R engine, removed turbo+JUN Stroker kit+labor=too much money
if you figure that the gti-r motor runs 3500+700 for labor installing it(unless you want to deal with it yourself)+stroker kit (who knows how much)+labor on the milling=well...as you know more than 6 grand
P10DET
11-21-2001, 10:01 PM
Guys, there's nothing mythical about the GTi-R engine.
It makes more power because of the larger turbo, larger IC, and short runner intake manifold. It does have more potential, but when you get down to bang for the buck, a DE or BB DET is still the champ.
Simply removing the turbo and installing a JUN stroker kit won't get you any farther than adding the JUN stroker kit to a DE along with a short runner intake manifold. For the money I'd save by using a DE or BB DET, I could buy enough other cool stuff so my engine would kick your engine's ass. :D
It makes more power because of the larger turbo, larger IC, and short runner intake manifold. It does have more potential, but when you get down to bang for the buck, a DE or BB DET is still the champ.
Simply removing the turbo and installing a JUN stroker kit won't get you any farther than adding the JUN stroker kit to a DE along with a short runner intake manifold. For the money I'd save by using a DE or BB DET, I could buy enough other cool stuff so my engine would kick your engine's ass. :D
T4 Primera
11-22-2001, 01:52 AM
SR20VE variable valve lift and timing motor in New Zealand 195hp + bolt-ons = ???hp = N/A MONSTER!!!!.
Price for complete engine, harness, MAF and ECU intact (from 1999 wagon done 10 000 km):
NZ$1850 + shipping to U.S. = US$800 approx + shipping.
Something to think about?;)
Price for complete engine, harness, MAF and ECU intact (from 1999 wagon done 10 000 km):
NZ$1850 + shipping to U.S. = US$800 approx + shipping.
Something to think about?;)
p_r_i_m_e_r_a
11-22-2001, 03:46 AM
I was meeerly rambling on, thinking about Nissan BTCC powerplants.
I'll try to be more serious, you know----keep my imaginary N/A engine within the imaginary price range.
:eshooter:
I'll try to be more serious, you know----keep my imaginary N/A engine within the imaginary price range.
:eshooter:
T4 Primera
11-22-2001, 06:04 AM
What sort of power output is considered "monster" anyway for a N/A SR20? OK, BTCC engines are 300bhp odd but I'd rule them out on the basis they're not streetable.
US$6k gets you around 200hp from the DE, can this be streetable/daily drivable/economical?
US$800 + shipping from NZ gets you a stock 195hp VE or VVL which is making more torque all over than a DE so is very streetable - and presumably this would still have room for development - lots of money left to spend before getting to the $6K of the 200hp DE. Hmmm ... wonder if they are gonna make a stroker kit for it? .... :p ;)
US$6k gets you around 200hp from the DE, can this be streetable/daily drivable/economical?
US$800 + shipping from NZ gets you a stock 195hp VE or VVL which is making more torque all over than a DE so is very streetable - and presumably this would still have room for development - lots of money left to spend before getting to the $6K of the 200hp DE. Hmmm ... wonder if they are gonna make a stroker kit for it? .... :p ;)
P10DET
11-22-2001, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by p_r_i_m_e_r_a
I was meeerly rambling on, thinking about Nissan BTCC powerplants.
I'll try to be more serious, you know----keep my imaginary N/A engine within the imaginary price range.
:eshooter:
The BTCC engines are pretty much unobtainium. They are reworked so much that they don't really resemble the stock block. As I've said several times before, they actually turn the head around so the intake faces front and the exhaust faces rear.
Now, if we are talking about imaginary engines, I can get a lot more creative than that. :)
I was meeerly rambling on, thinking about Nissan BTCC powerplants.
I'll try to be more serious, you know----keep my imaginary N/A engine within the imaginary price range.
:eshooter:
The BTCC engines are pretty much unobtainium. They are reworked so much that they don't really resemble the stock block. As I've said several times before, they actually turn the head around so the intake faces front and the exhaust faces rear.
Now, if we are talking about imaginary engines, I can get a lot more creative than that. :)
P10DET
11-22-2001, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by T4 Primera
What sort of power output is considered "monster" anyway for a N/A SR20? OK, BTCC engines are 300bhp odd but I'd rule them out on the basis they're not streetable.
US$6k gets you around 200hp from the DE, can this be streetable/daily drivable/economical?
US$800 + shipping from NZ gets you a stock 195hp VE or VVL which is making more torque all over than a DE so is very streetable - and presumably this would still have room for development - lots of money left to spend before getting to the $6K of the 200hp DE. Hmmm ... wonder if they are gonna make a stroker kit for it? .... :p ;)
Basically, the most powerful streetable engine (passes emissions as well) puts down 176 hp to the wheels. That's roughly the same output as a stock BB DET or approximately 205 bhp.
There is some more power available, but no one has spent time working to get it. Mike Kojima has been playing with turbos for the last 3 years and hasn't really gotten serious about getting more out of his engine. He seems to have hit a wall with additional power output and can't seem to find what is choke point. Even the C series cams aren't netting him more power. He has gain significant area under the curve, but until he finds the limitation, power seems to be stuck there.
Mike seems to think the high port engine (his is a low port) should respond better to the C series cams and there is now a short runner intake available for the high port head. Those two things should push output up a good 20+ hp. I'm wondering if our DPR Stage VI heads are the problem though. The combustion chambers are welded and reshaped. The valves are pretty close to being shrouded from what I understand and with the flow of the short runner intake and C series cams, it might be the choke point. I'm just guessing though.
As for this engine being streetable and liveable on a daily basis, the answer is a resounding YES!. It's wonderful. I really miss mine. When you wanted it to be mild mannered, it was. When you wanted it to bare its teeth, it did so in great fashion.
Damn. Now I want another one, but unfortunately, it's going to be a while now that I have the race car.
What sort of power output is considered "monster" anyway for a N/A SR20? OK, BTCC engines are 300bhp odd but I'd rule them out on the basis they're not streetable.
US$6k gets you around 200hp from the DE, can this be streetable/daily drivable/economical?
US$800 + shipping from NZ gets you a stock 195hp VE or VVL which is making more torque all over than a DE so is very streetable - and presumably this would still have room for development - lots of money left to spend before getting to the $6K of the 200hp DE. Hmmm ... wonder if they are gonna make a stroker kit for it? .... :p ;)
Basically, the most powerful streetable engine (passes emissions as well) puts down 176 hp to the wheels. That's roughly the same output as a stock BB DET or approximately 205 bhp.
There is some more power available, but no one has spent time working to get it. Mike Kojima has been playing with turbos for the last 3 years and hasn't really gotten serious about getting more out of his engine. He seems to have hit a wall with additional power output and can't seem to find what is choke point. Even the C series cams aren't netting him more power. He has gain significant area under the curve, but until he finds the limitation, power seems to be stuck there.
Mike seems to think the high port engine (his is a low port) should respond better to the C series cams and there is now a short runner intake available for the high port head. Those two things should push output up a good 20+ hp. I'm wondering if our DPR Stage VI heads are the problem though. The combustion chambers are welded and reshaped. The valves are pretty close to being shrouded from what I understand and with the flow of the short runner intake and C series cams, it might be the choke point. I'm just guessing though.
As for this engine being streetable and liveable on a daily basis, the answer is a resounding YES!. It's wonderful. I really miss mine. When you wanted it to be mild mannered, it was. When you wanted it to bare its teeth, it did so in great fashion.
Damn. Now I want another one, but unfortunately, it's going to be a while now that I have the race car.
lloyd_nickens
11-22-2001, 09:48 AM
Who would you call to get a ve engine?
pche059
11-22-2001, 02:01 PM
hey sandy were you serious about$1850 for a SR20VE?
wow man..that's even cheaper than buying a set of C2 cams and the value springs!!!!!
my god..won't that be the best bang for the buck? :D :D :D
anyway...do you know if there are any Primeras with a SR20VE and mannual tranny available?
could sell my car and get one of those...
i am sick of the serious lack of power...
i can probably move most of my mod parts over to the car anyway :D
wow man..that's even cheaper than buying a set of C2 cams and the value springs!!!!!
my god..won't that be the best bang for the buck? :D :D :D
anyway...do you know if there are any Primeras with a SR20VE and mannual tranny available?
could sell my car and get one of those...
i am sick of the serious lack of power...
i can probably move most of my mod parts over to the car anyway :D
ragt20
11-22-2001, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by P10DET
As I've said several times before, they actually turn the head around so the intake faces front and the exhaust faces rear.
:)
not if U manage to get hold of an early Btcc primera engine ....they were apparently the normal way round......wether even in that position it is street driveable or not is another question:)
As I've said several times before, they actually turn the head around so the intake faces front and the exhaust faces rear.
:)
not if U manage to get hold of an early Btcc primera engine ....they were apparently the normal way round......wether even in that position it is street driveable or not is another question:)
T4 Primera
11-23-2001, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by pche059
hey sandy were you serious about$1850 for a SR20VE?
wow man..that's even cheaper than buying a set of C2 cams and the value springs!!!!!
my god..won't that be the best bang for the buck? :D :D :D
anyway...do you know if there are any Primeras with a SR20VE and mannual tranny available?
could sell my car and get one of those...
i am sick of the serious lack of power...
i can probably move most of my mod parts over to the car anyway :D Grant (Grunter) first mentioned it, this engine is at
G & M Auto Spares, Bond Rd, Te Awamutu, ph 0-7-871 8575
I called them earlier this week for the price and he said $1850 over the phone. It's out of a crashed 1999 wagon done 10 000 km and was mated to one of those newfangled auto's. The auto has been sold and sent to Christchurch.
Don't know if it'll mate up to a manual but the guy said he had some manuals there so he could check it out. Don't forget, you might be able to get a few bucks for your engine as well which could go towards installation by Prestige or whoever.:)
hey sandy were you serious about$1850 for a SR20VE?
wow man..that's even cheaper than buying a set of C2 cams and the value springs!!!!!
my god..won't that be the best bang for the buck? :D :D :D
anyway...do you know if there are any Primeras with a SR20VE and mannual tranny available?
could sell my car and get one of those...
i am sick of the serious lack of power...
i can probably move most of my mod parts over to the car anyway :D Grant (Grunter) first mentioned it, this engine is at
G & M Auto Spares, Bond Rd, Te Awamutu, ph 0-7-871 8575
I called them earlier this week for the price and he said $1850 over the phone. It's out of a crashed 1999 wagon done 10 000 km and was mated to one of those newfangled auto's. The auto has been sold and sent to Christchurch.
Don't know if it'll mate up to a manual but the guy said he had some manuals there so he could check it out. Don't forget, you might be able to get a few bucks for your engine as well which could go towards installation by Prestige or whoever.:)
pche059
11-23-2001, 01:36 AM
hey....i have always wanted to know if insurance company will insure a car with an engine swap
or will they know at all?
can i change the color or something of the block so it looks the same?
:P
or will they know at all?
can i change the color or something of the block so it looks the same?
:P
T4 Primera
11-23-2001, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by pche059
hey....i have always wanted to know if insurance company will insure a car with an engine swap
or will they know at all?
can i change the color or something of the block so it looks the same?
:P I don't know if it'll be classed as a modified vehicle or not. Nissan 2 litre out and Nissan 2 litre in so I think it'd be ok. Give Land transport a call. I don't think insurance would be a problem. They usually charge more for a turbocharged vehicle.
hey....i have always wanted to know if insurance company will insure a car with an engine swap
or will they know at all?
can i change the color or something of the block so it looks the same?
:P I don't know if it'll be classed as a modified vehicle or not. Nissan 2 litre out and Nissan 2 litre in so I think it'd be ok. Give Land transport a call. I don't think insurance would be a problem. They usually charge more for a turbocharged vehicle.
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