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99 le sabre hot no start


rachet16
03-29-2016, 10:15 AM
I have a 99 lesabre cold start rough idle but smoothes out . Warm no start. Trouble codes P0171, P0300, P0336. Had plennum replaced 2 years ago but I'm seein coolant around the base of the plennum so I'm going to have to do that again but I don't think that has anything to do with the warm no start. Any input will be greatly appreciated!;

maxwedge
03-29-2016, 02:02 PM
336 points to a crank sensor or wiring issue, 171 is bank one lean, focus on 336 first as this can cause hot no start.

Tech II
03-30-2016, 02:28 PM
Also check vac line to f/p regulator, for fuel....

Have all codes cleared and see which one comes back....

rachet16
04-17-2016, 03:34 PM
I replaced the crank sensor yesterday. First start it ran rough and stalled. Restarted and it ran ok let it idle for a bit drove it around the block( I live in the country ) shut it off and it restarted. Today the wife drove it to town about 8 miles shut it off at krogers and she just called!! Again No Start!! No trouble codes were present and check engine light was off yesterday . I haven't checked today ! Could the problem be the ICM or cam position sensor???

maxwedge
04-17-2016, 05:05 PM
When it won't start you need to check spark first.

rachet16
04-17-2016, 05:21 PM
Just got the car home it finally started after about 2 hours. Check engine light back on P0404 and P0171 ??? Lean bank one and egr???

Tech II
04-17-2016, 05:23 PM
I believe you need a crank variation relearn, when you replace the crank sensor.....need Tech II for that....

But like Max says, when it won't start, check for spark, fuel pressure, and injector pulse......also try disconnecting the MAF to see if it will start....did you check that vac line for fuel?

rachet16
04-17-2016, 05:36 PM
Car won't start! Checked for spark at each coil terminal I have spark there. No fuel in regulator vac line.

rachet16
04-17-2016, 05:38 PM
Tech11 for relearn??? I don't know what that means. I did disconnect the maf still no start.

rachet16
04-17-2016, 05:43 PM
There is fuel getting to the regulator at the check valve.

maxwedge
04-17-2016, 10:05 PM
Will it start if you spray carb cleaner into the intake, if so you may have 1 shorted injector, which can pull down the other injectors and no start.

Tech II
04-18-2016, 10:19 AM
When ever you replace a crank sensor or PCM, there is a "crank variation relearn" procedure that has to be done....only special scan tools like a Tech II can do this.....it basically prevents improper misfire readings....

However, should not cause a no start.....the fact you have spark, means you are getting a signal from the crank sensor.....

As Max suggested, have someone crank the vehicle, while you spray carb cleaner into the intake....if it starts and runs as long as you spray, then it's a fuel problem...either the injectors, or a fuel pump....next check fuel pressure at the rail....if you have good pressure over 40psi, then there is either an injector, injector circuit, or PCM problem(could also be an ICM problem if the ICM is not sending a reference signal to the PCM)......see if the injectors are pulsing with a noid light.....

rachet16
05-03-2016, 02:03 PM
Worked on the Buick changed plennum plugs , plug wires, r&r icm cleaned and greased base (it was corroded and dry) tested injectors( ohm meter). The car starts cold if I run it and turn it off it will immediately restart but if it sits 10-15 min. it will not restart. It fires but chugs and sputters and dies! Then no start. I borrowed/ rented a fuel pressure gauge from autozone today. When I turn the key on no pressure, if I start the car it's at 25 psi turn the car off and it goes up to 28psi.. I pulled the fuel filter it was clear no restrictions. I don't know why there is no pressure when I turn the key??? The car starts and drives when cold.

rachet16
05-03-2016, 02:05 PM
I also noticed today that if I cruse at 55 and floor it there is literally no response!!
I'm thinking fuel pump or the gauge was junk!

rachet16
05-03-2016, 02:09 PM
I should also note P0171 and P0404 trouble codes have returned.

Tech II
05-03-2016, 10:18 PM
What is the fuel pressure when the car is running?

rachet16
05-03-2016, 11:00 PM
The gauge I was using said 25psi while the car was running

Blue Bowtie
05-04-2016, 07:40 AM
That's about 10-15 pounds lower than the spec, which is 44 with the vacuum disconnected from the FPR and 37 with full vacuum.

Does the fuel system hold pressure after the engine is shut off? For how long?

rachet16
05-04-2016, 07:48 AM
It held for as long as I was working on it I only left the gauge on for about 20 min.
The fpr says 51psi on the sticker. I don't see how the gauge can resd zero with the key on and the car starts right up!!! I tried bumping the starter on the recomendation of a friend who said maybe that was needed to initiate the pump relay :it still reAd zero until I started the car

rachet16
05-04-2016, 10:55 AM
There was no difference in pressure readings with the fpr vacuum line on or off.

Tech II
05-04-2016, 10:39 PM
There should be like a 5psi difference when you disconnect the vac line while the engine is running(higher disconnected).....

rachet16
05-05-2016, 09:50 AM
Just did another fuel pressure test with a different gauge. It registered 15 psi with the key on 25 psi with the car running no change when I disconnect the fpr vac line . I left the gauge on and it bled down 5psi in 30 minutes.

rachet16
05-05-2016, 10:13 AM
Just checked again pressure down to 14psi down 11 psi in 1 hour

Tech II
05-05-2016, 10:26 AM
Fuel pressure should be around 40+ psi, while running or in a static test, not running....

Did you cycle your key to "on"(not to crank....do not start), off for 5 seconds, on, off for 5 seconds, on again to get max reading?

I don't know if you have plastic lines or rubber lines to the fuel rail...

If you have plastic, you need special shut off valves to test....

However, if you have rubber lines, use a rag and vice grips, and attach it to the return line(line coming off the fuel regulator)......now turn key to on(don't start), if pressure increases, you need a regulator.....may have to cycle key several times to get max reading...

rachet16
05-05-2016, 10:44 AM
Cycled the key got 15psi. Plastic lines start the car I have 25 psi no change with fpr vac line disconnected while running

rachet16
05-05-2016, 11:00 AM
Should I replace the fuel pump or try the regulator first???

rachet16
05-05-2016, 11:04 AM
Where would I get the valves for testing??

Blue Bowtie
05-05-2016, 07:02 PM
The FIRST thing to do is to verify that the pump is getting a full 14V with the engine running (12V KOEO). I've seen more than a few pumps condemned when the eventual problem is discovered as poor connections in the circuit (including grounds) causing low voltage. That equates to lower pressure. There should be a connector just to the right of the fuel tank where the contacts can be back-probed and voltage monitored.

Tech II
05-08-2016, 01:07 PM
Blue is correct....you should check for proper voltage.....but that gets tricky....just using a voltmeter is not the answer, because you could have a voltage drop, and the voltmeter doesn't show it because of it's high impedance.......can do it two ways....attach a test light across your battery and note the brightness....disconnect the fuel tank harness, and attach the test light to the two leads of the harness to the fuel pump circuit.....turn key to on.....should light with same brightness as the battery, for 2 seconds(If you turn the key to the crank position it will be on steady).......if much dimmer then you have a bad connection somewhere......if you really want to verify actual voltage, you attach the test light to the the circuit AND, attach the voltmeter to the test light leads in parallel......this will give you the WORKING VOLTAGE across the fuel pump.....but I usually just go by brightness.....

I have seen a lot of bad grounds on trucks, but not on LeSabres......the other possibility is a bad fuel pump relay, where there is a voltage drop across the contacts from arcing too much(basically the relay is old)....so you can swap out a relay with the same number to see if the pressure increases, first....

But for the most part, I am suspecting that f/p regulator....there was a campaign for 1998 to 2000 LeSabres......call your local Buick dealer, give them your VIN number, and they can tell you if the campaign is still open on your vehicle(it's open if the F/P regulator was never replaced).....it won't cost you anything, and it's like a 10 minute job to replace.....

Unfortunately, only your GM dealer has these special valves to attach to your plastic lines to determine if the fuel pump is bad........

So, what I would do, is call the dealership first.....better yet, go to the dealership and ask them to show you on the computer, if there are any open campaigns on your vehicle, looking for TSB 03054B........there is a possibility, that the campaign is closed(sometimes closed after 10 years)....but you can check to see if it was done.....if it wasn't, then you can get one and install it yourself....very easy....do on a cold engine.....relieve pressure at the schraeder valve of the fuel rail, remove vac line, and remove the horse shoe retaining clip......grab head of fuel pressure regulator with pliers and slowly twist and pull out(have rags under the regulator base to catch spilled fuel)......look in base, sometimes the small o-ring stays in....remove......apply petroleum jelly to the new o-rings and install the new regulator....install new horse shoe clip(May have to push down on regulator to get clip to go into the grooves).......attach vac line....turn key to on several times to check for leaks.....then start car......

Now if fuel pressure is still low, and you have good voltage to the fuel pump, then in all likely hood, you need a fuel pump....unfortunately, this year, I don't think, has access to the pump through the trunk.....you have to drop the tank.....and that opens up another can of worms....rusted fuel lines from the sender can break/leak......when disconnecting the plastic lines from the metal lines, they can be a problem, and may have to be replaced....and then there are the fuel tank strap bolts.....sometimes when taken out, the weld on the retaining nuts break, and the bolt just spins.......all these things happen, if you live in an area that uses salt on their roads in the winter....so better hope it's not the fuel pump......

Did I make your day?

rachet16
05-08-2016, 01:37 PM
Thanks Tech II ! Good info really helpful . You did indeed make my day. I'm really NOT looking forward to changing the fuel pump !!

rachet16
05-09-2016, 04:39 PM
Went to dealer this morning no open campaigns. Could not verify if fpr had been replaced. Went to the parts store replaced fuel pump relay still low pressure same as before 15psi koeo 26 psi running no change when I remove vac line to fpr. Replaced fpr pressure still the same still no change when vac line to fpr is removed. Didn't do the voltage / light check , it's raining today and I'm working in the driveway.
Really looks like the fuel pump is going but I'm not convinced thats causing the no start. I'll check fuel pressure the next time it won't start. The car is my wifes work car so its not here all the time. It always starts cold the problem only shows up after driving 20 minutes or so then sitting for 15-20 minutes. Wait 2 hours and it will start again.

rachet16
05-10-2016, 09:29 AM
Drove the car approx. 25 miles this morning shut it off and restarted twice. I let the car sit 20 min.and tried to start it fired chugged coughed a couple times and stalled . I checked fuel pressure and it was still the same 15 psi koeo relieved fuel pressure checked again koeo still 15 psi relieved pressure again and restarted it ran rough for a couple minutes and smothed out. Then it would restart??????

rachet16
05-10-2016, 10:18 AM
Does anyone know what is acceptable fuel pressure bleed down rate for this vehicle??? Mine went down
5psi in 30 minutes 11 psi in 1 hour. Could a leaky injector/ injectors be causing the no start after sitting 20 minutes????

Blue Bowtie
05-10-2016, 07:55 PM
Pressure drop is less of a concern than running rail pressure. 37-44 PSIG is the standard.

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