SVT versus SRT

Which is the best: SVT or SRT?
SVT vechicles: svt focus, svt mustang cobra, svt lightning, ford gt
SRT vechicles: srt-4 neon, srt-10 viper, srt-10 ram

Personally, I think that SVT is better. The Ford GT is faster than any car in this comparison. The mustang cobra is only a few tenths from being as fast as the viper. The next lightning (S/C 5.4 L w/ 500hp) is faster than the srt-10 ram. Dodge's only big victory in this comparison is the srt-4 over the svt focus.

ok the GT does not exist yet, the new lighting does not exist yet...they are prototipes


so i'll take this further.....i'll compare the year 3250 intrepid class dodge starship Vs the galaxy class ford starship...which one can do the 1/4 parsec faster.....:rolleyes:


and btw a side by side comparison between the 03 cobra and the srt-19 viper is more than e few tenths.....

viper srt-10 11.7 sec
cobra 13.01 sec


last time i checked that is more than a sec diff....

the comparison was made side by side by Justin Bell former gts class le mans winer.....if you think you can do better...please post your profesional racing credentials.....

Originally posted by Neutrino
ok the GT does not exist yet, the new lighting does not exist yet...they are prototipes

so i'll take this further.....i'll compare the year 3250 intrepid class dodge starship Vs the galaxy class ford starship...which one can do the 1/4 parsec faster.....:rolleyes:

and btw a side by side comparison between the 03 cobra and the srt-19 viper is more than e few tenths.....

viper srt-10 11.7 sec
cobra 13.01 sec

last time i checked that is more than a sec diff....


:thumbsup:

Why doesn't somebody throw in the Z series from Chevy...:dunno:

Hands down I will go with SRT, and not only because I'm a serious Mopar fan.

1. The SRT-10 Ram can murder the SVT Lightning on the straight and on the track, and the Lightning is supercharged.

2. The SRT-10 Viper is about a second faster than the SVT Cobra Mustang, and once again the Mustang is supercharged.

3. The SRT-4 Neon just wallops on the SVT Focus, but to the Focus's defense the Neon does have a turbocharger. What can be said there is that when Chrysler does forced induction, at least they do it right.

SVT should almost stand for Supercharged Vehicles Team. They need to design a new platform and build something that can compete naturally aspirated. As for the GT, it is still a concept, and it is a supercharged concept at that.

Viper over Mustang.
If your going to buy a big fat heavy over powered lump of steel then do it porperly. The Viper is heavier, more powerful, faster and oh soooooooooo much coooler!

Trucks? who cares.
Trucks are for carring large loads not racing.

Neon vs Focus?
Focus all the way! Its a British designed car, with a great agile chassis, lots of power, and lots of charm.
The Neon will always be a Neon, no matter what you do to it.
....oh, and the Focus is driven by that Collin McRae fella, when was the last time you saw a WRC Neon. :icon16: :icon16:

Originally posted by Moppie
Viper over Mustang.
If your going to buy a big fat heavy over powered lump of steel then do it porperly. The Viper is heavier, more powerful, faster and oh soooooooooo much coooler!

Trucks? who cares.
Trucks are for carring large loads not racing.

Neon vs Focus?
Focus all the way! Its a British designed car, with a great agile chassis, lots of power, and lots of charm.
The Neon will always be a Neon, no matter what you do to it.
....oh, and the Focus is driven by that Collin McRae fella, when was the last time you saw a WRC Neon. :icon16: :icon16:


the mustang is actually heavier than the viper....the new srt-10 is only 3300 pounds(and keep in mind its a convertible) while the new cobra is almost 3700 pounds....

also the focus svt is quite a good handling car.....and quite good but it would get murdered by the srt-4 because of the power deficit......a true contender for the srt-4 would be the turbo focus rs.....very different story....

Originally posted by Neutrino



the mustang is actually heavier than the viper....the new srt-10 is only 3300 pounds(and keep in mind its a convertible) while the new cobra is almost 3700 pounds....

also the focus svt is quite a good handling car.....and quite good but it would get murdered by the srt-4 because of the power deficit......a true contender for the srt-4 would be the turbo focus rs.....very different story....

Which sadly we will never see in he states, stupid Ford. They have a great car but they won't seel it here because it would compete with the crappy SVT Focus. :rolleyes:

And Moppie, you should know better than to compare a WRC car to a stocker. The reason you haven't seen a WRC SRT-4 is the fact that it cost millions to make these cars, and I don't think that it would make Chrysler any money, so why make one?

Also, the Neon can handle. It is kicking butt in SCCA rally events in its class. Don't say it can compete because of a nameplate.

well ford has had its svt division longer than dodge has had its srt. the lightning has been the supreme sports truck for some time. it's inevitable that someone else will step up to the plate and offer one better. then the next time around, it will be someone else, perhaps chevy this time since the current ss silverado, while it's a nice truck, still falls short of the lightning and srt10 in the performance category.

i'm not a fan of pickups myself. i could really care less if the new ram srt 10 is faster than the lightning or whatever. it makes no difference to me.

as for between the neon srt4 and focus svt i'd choose the neon if i was a teenager who just wants to beat on all those honda boys since it already has a big wing and all that body clad stuff. otherwise, i'd get the focus.

i dont' put the cobra in the same category as the viper. the viper runs with 911 turbos, ferraris, the zo6. a class that the cobra can't touch. that's what i think. sure the viper and mustang cobra are the fastest cars from dodge and ford respectively (until the ford gt comes out at least). then will ford have a more evenly matched contest to the viper, but not the cobra.

Neutrino, the cobra can run 12.3-12.6 in the quarter compared to the viper's 11.8-12.2. That's not as much of a difference as the $45000 price difference. With a couple thousand dollars, viper drivers will be reading the word "cobra" on the mustang bumper. The mach 1 will run 12.97 on slicks so the cobra can for sure get low 12s with a good,experienced driver. I am not trying to start a flame war, but look at the price difference! Polygon, the 2005 srt-10 will not beat the 2005 lightning! The lightning makes as much horsepower and is lighter. The lightning will preveil! As far as the ford gt being a concept still, wrong. Ford only released around 3 or so for the cenntennial celebration this year. Ford will start making about 1500 per year starting next year.

Originally posted by stangvette1
Neutrino, the cobra can run 12.3-12.6 in the quarter compared to the viper's 11.8-12.2. That's not as much of a difference as the $45000 price difference. With a couple thousand dollars, viper drivers will be reading the word "cobra" on the mustang bumper. The mach 1 will run 12.97 on slicks so the cobra can for sure get low 12s with a good,experienced driver. I am not trying to start a flame war, but look at the price difference! Polygon, the 2005 srt-10 will not beat the 2005 lightning! The lightning makes as much horsepower and is lighter. The lightning will preveil! As far as the ford gt being a concept still, wrong. Ford only released around 3 or so for the cenntennial celebration this year. Ford will start making about 1500 per year starting next year.


and i'm not disputing that the cobra can run faster than the time i posted....but so the viper can be faster....external conditions affect performance too much....that is why only side by side runs matter....


for example i can get the cobra to run faster....how?...i take the cobra at sea level and run it.....and i take the viper and run it in tibet.....the viper up there will probably run in the 15's....so separate runs cannot mater when comparing car performances....only identical condition runs.....as in side by side....

You guys should have known better than to take my post seriously, I was just taking the piss out of the very nationalistic nature of this comparision (moslty because we dont get a lot of Vipers in this part of the world, and the few Mustangs we do get are conversions done in Ozzy, all to the detriment of the cars performance).

The Neon was sold here along side the Voyager, but unlike the Voyager, it was a total sales flop. Its a cheap car, built and designed on a budget by people who dont really car about small cars, they would be rather be designing Vipers and Voyagers.
In the US where you have a very limited selection of genuine small performance cars then the SRT is surly a great bargin, but out side of the US it shows its age, and brute force approach to performance.
The Focus is a much much more sophisticated car. Remember that real life roads are not straight lines, and they are not totaly smooth autocross course's.

Originally posted by Moppie
You guys should have known better than to take my post seriously, I was just taking the piss out of the very nationalistic nature of this comparision (moslty because we dont get a lot of Vipers in this part of the world, and the few Mustangs we do get are conversions done in Ozzy, all to the detriment of the cars performance).

The Neon was sold here along side the Voyager, but unlike the Voyager, it was a total sales flop. Its a cheap car, built and designed on a budget by people who dont really car about small cars, they would be rather be designing Vipers and Voyagers.
In the US where you have a very limited selection of genuine small performance cars then the SRT is surly a great bargin, but out side of the US it shows its age, and brute force approach to performance.
The Focus is a much much more sophisticated car. Remember that real life roads are not straight lines, and they are not totaly smooth autocross course's.



I'm with you here Moppie- but Colin drives for a Certain French maker now so :thefinger Although last I hear the Voyager was losing serious ground to the Carnival, Oddysey, Previa and Secnic (Though it's not a proper MPV) back in the motherland.

The Focus without doubt has the most sophistication, the Neon has been around in one form or another since 1995 to the best of my knowlege- and Chrysler are flogging them off to College students who think they are are "cute" and the US is it's sole market- the Focus is a European car that ended up in the States- and that sounds a lot better on the ears :D- NOBODY does compacts better than the Europeans (The Mazda2 and Honda Jazz come close though)



Viper vs Stang??? Viper- without a doubt- torquier, brawnier and oh so in-your-face- I'm dying for a drive of the latest one :bigthumb:

one thing to correct you guys......don't asociate the srt-4 with the base neons.....there is a very large gap.....almost as big as between the lancer and lancer evo....

Originally posted by stangvette1
Neutrino, the cobra can run 12.3-12.6 in the quarter compared to the viper's 11.8-12.2. That's not as much of a difference as the $45000 price difference. With a couple thousand dollars, viper drivers will be reading the word "cobra" on the mustang bumper. The mach 1 will run 12.97 on slicks so the cobra can for sure get low 12s with a good,experienced driver. I am not trying to start a flame war, but look at the price difference! Polygon, the 2005 srt-10 will not beat the 2005 lightning! The lightning makes as much horsepower and is lighter. The lightning will preveil! As far as the ford gt being a concept still, wrong. Ford only released around 3 or so for the cenntennial celebration this year. Ford will start making about 1500 per year starting next year.

You aren't simply paying $45,000 extra for faster 1/4 mile times, you should know better than that. Just remember that the Viper is a track car, not a drag car.

The 2005 Lightning is STILL supercharged, they can't win being naturally aspirated. The SRT-10 Ram looks so much better anyway. As for the GT, that is great, it is a great looking car, but it is STILL superchraged. If you haven't caught the hint yet, I don't like supercharging.

And Moppie, I didn't realize that you were craking a joke. While I don't mind the Focus, I just don't like any of the models here in the states, I want the RS. :biggrin:

If Ford can't win without supercharging then what about 427ci V-10 making 590hp that is going in Ford Futura and in the next Cobra R?

cobra 13.01 sec

i dunno where you got that, but tell them to learn how to drive

Originally posted by SVTerminator
If Ford can't win without supercharging then what about 427ci V-10 making 590hp that is going in Ford Futura and in the next Cobra R?

Well, I don't see that in any productions cars. When I see them at dealer lots I'll shut up. For now they can't, and I haven't heard of these being production. Also I'll bet they'll cost an arm and a leg if they are actually released.

I can argue that Dodge is thinking of making a Hemi version of the V-10, and trust me, that will make a lot more than 590HP, but surprise, it isn't is a prosuction car so I didn't. It is irrelevant.

Originally posted by idunno
cobra 13.01 sec

i dunno where you got that, but tell them to learn how to drive


ok you should go tell Justin Bell that his le mans win means nothing and then you shoud procced at showing him the finer points of race driving.....


also btw that time was acheived at high temperatures.....i'm not debating that the cobra can run faster under better conditions(as in colder air)......but the fact remains that the viper was over a sec faster under the same conditions.....


and as polygon said don't look at drag slips the viper is a track car.....not a drag car.....its so fast because its a very powerful car....but its true strenght its on the track...

Originally posted by Jimster
NOBODY does compacts better than the Europeans (The Mazda2 and Honda Jazz come close though)



way OT, but after working on and drving a good selection of Compact cars, I have to say that while the British may have invented the class, the Japanese perfected it, and the rest of the world is still playing catch up.




And just how differnt is the SR-T neon from the lesser models?

Originally posted by Moppie



way OT, but after working on and drving a good selection of Compact cars, I have to say that while the British may have invented the class, the Japanese perfected it, and the rest of the world is still playing catch up.




And just how differnt is the SR-T neon from the lesser models?

well the engine is different, the transmision is different, half shafts are different, suspension is different, and the chassis is stiffer.....


that is a lot of upgrades.....almost(but not quite) as much as an evo vs the base lancer.....

Originally posted by Neutrino

that is a lot of upgrades.....almost(but not quite) as much as an evo vs the base lancer.....


That seriously dosnt tell me much. :rolleyes:

The Current EVO 8 like the 7 before it is not even based on the Lancer body, but the Cedia (which gets badged as the Lancer for the US market, and a special model in Australia).
Mitsi then change everything on the cedia except the outer panels and roof.
Thats a new floor (to accomodate the AWD, as well as to stiffen it) , totaly new frount and rear suspension (attachment points, as well as arms etc) and of course a unique engine and g/box. Very few of the parts on the car are common with the base Cedia model.
As you go back towards the EVO I then there are less and changes made to the base Lancer body and suspension.

well i guess there are more mods to the evo....although i posted that is was not quite as modifies......


i'm not sure why you are so against it.....i'm not trying to say its even close to be as good as the evo especially handling but still its an mazing little car......and with a stage two upgrade from mopar(still under factory warranty) will be able to take the evo (by a slight margin in the 1/4 mile).....and you hear this from someone whose next car will be an evo.....so i'm not byased......


its true its not the most refined car but its the fastest car for the money....


also btw don't say that mopar can't build a good car.....because they own mitsubishi and anytime they want they can take any parts off the evo's

actually there is a rumour that there will be an evo under the dodge badge......as in the dsm's......

bottom line the neon is far form being a perfect car but for the money its very hard to do better performance wise(as new stock cars go)

Originally posted by Neutrino


bottom line the neon is far form being a perfect car but for the money its very hard to do better performance wise(as new stock cars go)


In the US Im sure its a great car, but take it outside of the US market, where the remaining 93% of the worlds population lives, and all of a sudden its ablity to go very quickly in a straight line is all it has going for it, and in a world that is round and not flat that becomes almost useless.

Alright, I'm not sure if someone already stated this, but you Dodge boys seem to forget something.

You are comparing a V-10 with a displacement of an INSANE 8.28L vs V-8's in their 5's!

What's pathetic is that Dodge can have such a huge engine, 8.28L of massive displacement, and only crank out 500hp. That's downright pathetic. A supercharger isn't good enough to suppliment almost 3L of additional displacement, so I don't know why you guys are so against Ford supercharging their engines.

If you really want to know how inefficient Dodge is, look at the 6.4L V-10 in the new Shelby Cobra. That's almost 2L SMALLER than the Dodge V-10, and it will also be naturally aspired, yet, it will have over 605hp! 105hp MORE with almost 2L LESS! So logically, what does that tell you about those two companies? Obviously ONE of them is doing something wrong, *cough*Dodge*cough* :loser:

Oh, and BTW, to the original moderator that claims that the Ford GT does not "exist" yet, you do realize that it is a 2005 year car that already has sold 3, and will come into normal production and sale by this June or July right? Then we'll compare the Viper and the GT, how about that? The GT will still be faster with a much smaller engine.

nice of you to bring up a dead thread, almost a year old...
at the time of the thread, the GT wasn't a reality, and most of the other notes were true as well...
you should really consider what you're saying, and then look at WHEN they said what they did...

this is part of the rules in this forum, don't bring up DEAD horses.

I actually found this thread while searching for something on Google, so it's not like I went through the pages of the forum to dig this up.

Anyway, in other words, you're admitting that everything I have said is true then right? :smile: Alright then, cool. Sorry for bringing a tough topic back up. I understand you guys wanted to keep this one buried for a reason. :-P

that's not at all what was said.

you're comparing the cobra v10 (concept car) to production viper motor?
that makes no sense. we all know that it won't have 600hp when it's produced (if it is).

keep it buried for a reason?
no.
it died, just like anything else.

you should ***edit*** LET IT ***edit*** do the same.
you can't argue this, as the argument isn't valid anymore, now that production has:
a. stopped for svt focus
b. started for GT
c. starting for new lightning

it's not the same arugment.

LOL, I should die? Oh my, aren't we mature! :rofl:

Anyway, of course the argument isn't the same anymore. Because now there isn't an argument at all, it's clear who's the loser now! :grinno:

SVT Focus has died, who gives a rip, I've always thought that Ford's worst vehicle was the crappy Focus, it was just a little toy to satisfy the kids who want little quicky economy cars.

The fact still stands, Ford can build a 5.4L V8 that has more horsepower than a Dodge 8.28L V10. That's not prototype, that's the real deal. Oh, and BTW, they have updated the specs, it's not 500hp, it's 550hp, that's why I said MORE horsepower. Also, a magazine put a Ford GT on a dyno and they claim it has more than 565hp to the rear wheels, but that's nothing official, so I won't accept that quite yet, but it implies that there's a slight chance that Ford's 5.4L V8 is putting out more than 580bhp. Either way, we can leave it at the official claim of 550hp and it still got the Dodge SRT10 Viper beat. In terms of power:displacement ratio, the Viper is pwned! :loser:

Also, the engine in the prototype Cobra is not a new engine. The Cobra was actually built after the engine. That engine is a fully working V10 that Ford has finished developing, they are just looking for a car to put it in. And it might be 605hp, it might be 550hp, it doesn't matter, it's still naturally aspired, almost 2L less displacement, and yet have MORE power than the SRT10 Viper's massive 8.28L V10. I love repeating how massive the Viper's engine is. In case any of you missed it, it is 8.28L and puts out 500hp. :grinno:

you should let the thread die.
i did not infer that you should die.
seriously.

you're going to sit here, and post more information about a topic that doesn't coincide with the truth that's available now?

come on.
seriously.

the viper, which is na, is owned by a s/c'd 5.4.

you're going to get into a tricky discussion there.

size doesn't matter if you put forced induction on it.

you can have viper killing 4 cylinders. what's your point?

power:displacement ratio.
ricer excuse.

you can't really claim that the ford 6.4 is going to make any of the numbers you stated until it's printed in a brochure.sorry.

you can't claim that a car that is not in production is better than a production car.

i'm a seasoned reader of the magazines, but you can't compare things that aren't being sold in the showroom at the same time.

these are not.

this is an irrelevant thread.

if you want to restart a new one, on the same topic, with new informatoin, go for it.


on your note about the focus...
a. it's not a crappy car.
b. who gives a rip? it was part of the comparo, or did you just decide to ignore a car that's in it b/c you don't like it?
c. built on a world platform, it's far superior to the neon, even the srt4. sorry.

"you should let the thread die.
i did not infer that you should die.
seriously."

LOL, alright man, I was wondering why you were being so harsh for such a silly argument! :rofl:

"if you want to restart a new one, on the same topic, with new informatoin, go for it."

Well, after you mentioned the rules, I went ahead and read them. Like I said, I replied to this when I stumbled upon it during a search on Google, didn't know it was old, so sorry about the dig, wasn't intentional.

But anyway, I read the rules, and didn't it also say that doing a comparison that has already been done is also against the rules? Basically, if I want to discuss this GT vs. Viper, I basically can't!

"on your note about the focus...
a. it's not a crappy car.
b. who gives a rip? it was part of the comparo, or did you just decide to ignore a car that's in it b/c you don't like it?
c. built on a world platform, it's far superior to the neon, even the srt4. sorry."

Hehe, I disagree, I hate the freakin Focus. It was rated top 10 by Car and Driver many times, and yipee for it, it's top 10 because it's a good deal for kids and old ladies to buy, but for me, blah.

And yes, I did decide to ignore it because I didn't like it, lol, I don't really want to pick a side when I don't really care for either car involved.

I really don't care if it's superior to the srt4, or if it's not superior to the srt4, I don't care for either vehicle, so I will not pick a side, they can both burn and explode for all I care. It's great that people have found little cute cars that go fast, wonderful for them, but it's not my cup of tea. I'd rather talk about the 2004 SVT Mustang Cobra, or the 2005 Ford GT, or the Aston Martin Vantage, or the Saleen S7 (thanks for bringing that up...), well, I guess you know where I'm getting at.

considering that there are no current comparos of the viper/GT, it wouldn't be bad to start another.

i'd recommend searching for what has been said already, and then basing your comparo off of that.

Hm, looking at a lot of these comparisons, I hope there is still interest in these cars. It seems the current trends are toward the smaller displacement, smaller frame, front drivers. I'm glad I drive a 1992 Mustang GT, I never have to really worry about it getting stolen or having someone steal my rims, since the victims now are the ones with Integras, Neons, and whatever, lol. :grinno:

Also, what the heck is this smily supposed to mean?: :icon16:

Well, I guess I'll post a new comparison of the Viper and the Ford GT.

Read this (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=162405) . Ancient thread. Closed