Justifiable Murder.

I Believe that if someone breaks into my house, intent on robbery or murder, *I* have the right to shoot them, kill them even without warning. I dont understand how people can't see it my way. Its the same as if you are aobut to streetrace. You know it's illegal and the police certanly arent gonna warn you before they arrest you, why should it be any different in a vigilante situation?

You break into my house, you're gonna get shot. Period.
You try to carjack me, you're gonna get shot. Period.
You try to mug me on a dark street, you're gonna get shot. Period.

Why should i give a shit about someone else's life if that someone else obviously didnt give a shit aobut mine? I believe that If some does/tries to wrong me like that, i should be albe to kill them with no consequence other than praise from others. Afterall, its another dirtbag gone, right? I tell you, crime would rapidly go down as scumbag criminals get shot for their own stupidity.

I'm just waiting to moce to a state where i can legally own automatic weapons.

Anyhoo, how many agree, disagree, on the fence?

Agree here.

If someone tries to deny or take from me my right to life, than I'm going to take theirs, plain and simple.

BTW, in the state of Alabama, it's more legally wrong not to kill a thug in the defense of someone else than to kill that thug. :bigthumb:

Let me say that I have no sympathy for the wrong doers. However, I do think that you shouldn't use any more force then you actually need to stop the act or get away. As an example, if someone says get out of the car while you sitting there and you could just hit the gas and speed away. Do that - dont pull out your .45 and cap the bastard.

Again, if someone dies because you had to do what it takes to protect yourself or your family (etc) then you've got my support and understanding.

I see what you guys are saying, & where you're headed;
But life is more complicated than that...at times.

What if the carjacker was carjacking some rich dude who has like 10 billion cars already; and they were stealing it to rush someone they know to the hospital (no cellphones).

Life is more than If then, else if statements. I know it sucks to be robbed of something, that's why we really have to get the kids of the ghettos and such, so that they have an equal chance in life like most of us. It all starts with the children.

with that type of mentality, you stand a high chance or seeing the inside of a jail cell. I work in Corrections, and I see that type of mentality every day, and it gets the inmates no where fast. The only force needed, is the minimal needed to get the job done. Is a car, which is insured worth another mans life? sure, it sucks rocks to have it taken, and I would be pissed as hell to have mine stolen, but I am not going to go and kill the guy because he stole my car. I'd rather watch him sit in that jail cell and suffer for a few years :)..... meanwhile, I'm out driving in my NEW car, that the insurance money paid for ;)

:twak:

just a thought.........how would the judges know if to convict a person......if the person that shot the other person said that he was being mugged and it was in self defense.........how would the judge know who to convict....?

consistency of the story, corroborating evidence, witnesses (if any). The science of recreating crime scenes is very sophisticated these days.

Besides, the important thing to this discuussion is not whether one could legally do somehing, but whether or not this type of behavior is morally acceptable.

i think its ok cause people who break into houses and the such aren't like cat-burgerlers on cartoons there probbly druggies or somthing and are dangerous I know if i needed to i'd test my .303 out on his skull or my .45 or my .40 or my well you get the point but i'd be like dude lie down i'm calling the cops if he did i'll let the cops take him away any funny stuff well he'll meet mr happy i think its fair. Its a last resort and should not be taken away cause when its time for the trigger to be pulled its you or them no questions no rambo shit in real life.

the only thing with that is you're as bad as they are for having no respect for life. You shoot them they die you should be punished for being an idiot and taking out your gun.

Now if they try to kill you then they forfeit their lifes.

Originally posted by SniperX13
with that type of mentality, you stand a high chance or seeing the inside of a jail cell. I work in Corrections, and I see that type of mentality every day, and it gets the inmates no where fast. The only force needed, is the minimal needed to get the job done. Is a car, which is insured worth another mans life? sure, it sucks rocks to have it taken, and I would be pissed as hell to have mine stolen, but I am not going to go and kill the guy because he stole my car. I'd rather watch him sit in that jail cell and suffer for a few years :)..... meanwhile, I'm out driving in my NEW car, that the insurance money paid for ;)

:twak:

I dont have theft insurance ;)

And anyway i figure its an unwritten rule that if you (a wrongdoer) decides to do wrong, you run the risk of getting seriously injured.

NSX: no offense, but taht situation is very unlikely. I don't think anyone is dumb enough to steal someons car at gunpoint for hospital reasons when they can stop the car, and ask for assistance, where they could get an ambulance and blah blah.. see what i mean?

Why do criminals have it so easy these days? I mean seriously, I don't speed becasue i fear the long arm of the law. How many more dead clerks behind the quick-e-mart register is it going to take for people to realize that these scumbags don't understand anything else but force? Why do *I* have to sit by idly and just let this stuff happen to me?

And don't kid yourself if you think 1 or 2 years is gonna change the way those scumbags behave. For some of them, yes, but most of them are gonna go right back to a life of crime and adding to the poverty.

I'll admit that maybe going so far as deadly force may be a bit too far. But all crooks be warned, you mess with me, the BEST thing that's going to happen to you is the doctors wrenching out a .45 slug from your knee.

The only problem with NOT killing them is then it becomes his word vs. yours. And we all know how fucked up the judicial system in this country can be, i.e. you losing the case and being sued by the same person who tried to harm you in the first place.

Go ahead and shoot them. Kill enough people and you'll only end up being executed too.
People these days are so incredibly idiotic - violence is the solution to every thing - robbers break into the house - shoot them. Jehova's witnesses come over - shoot them. Car breaks down - shoot it. Broken leg? - that's right shoot it. Don't like your sandwich? - shoot it. Hell shoot everything and everyone - because he may not be robbing your house now - but until he's dead, how can you be sure he never will rob your house?

Nobody has ever broken into my home except for me - and I doubt anybody else ever will. I leave my car unlocked most of the time - nobody has ever stolen it. Sure I have had things stolen - but I don;t think a couple of my hard earned dollars would justify me taking somebody's life, do you? Maybe not taking their life - but for all intents and purposes, a large board with a nail in it is a better way to teach a lesson than a lethal weapon is.

ROFL; isn't that what Elvis did? :p

I believe that some crimes warrant capital punishment. Robbery, for example, is not one of those crimes. Assault, maybe; it depends...

I think we need more effective non-leathal weapons. Just incapacitate everyone until the story's sorted out... :icon16:

I was going to add "then you'd be as logical as Elvis" but I didn't think that anybody would get that.
On topic: I mean, I wouldn't kill somebody for stealing my wallet, or even breaking into my house... if they attacked me or another person however, that's a completely different situation.

Originally posted by SniperX13
with that type of mentality, you stand a high chance or seeing the inside of a jail cell. I work in Corrections, and I see that type of mentality every day, and it gets the inmates no where fast. The only force needed, is the minimal needed to get the job done. Is a car, which is insured worth another mans life? sure, it sucks rocks to have it taken, and I would be pissed as hell to have mine stolen, but I am not going to go and kill the guy because he stole my car. I'd rather watch him sit in that jail cell and suffer for a few years :)..... meanwhile, I'm out driving in my NEW car, that the insurance money paid for ;)

:twak:

Brings to mind a case of armed robbery and attempted murder here in NZ....Drug user held up a liquor store.The offender did the usual gun -brandishing routine,the counterhand did what he was trained to do ,comply with the robber's instructions and put your own safety before the contents of the till...He laid down behind the counter,the robber removed the cash....and then attempted to execute the victim.Had the crim had anything larger than a .22 in his hand,the clerk would now be dead.I agree with Yogs that you should take only whatever steps are neccesary to get out of the situattion,but in some cases that would definitely include fighting back.

Originally posted by 2strokebloke

Nobody has ever broken into my home except for me -

Well buddy, I have. Luckily I wasn't there (or my family) but the feeling you get when your shit is missing is the absolute pits.

I'd much rather NOT have to shoot anyone, just let the people know i have the means and use that as a deterrent. Heck maybe i should just hang a sign on my door that says "Dear theives and crims, you're uninvited entering warrants the risk of your getting shot. Consider yourself warned." And if they still do it, i think they deserve it.

why should *I* have to live in fear? Why can't I make the *crims* live in fear of me?

And i think you took it a little too far of shoot everyone and everything to make sure its not gonna rob me. We're both pretty smart guys (well you may not agree, but whatever). I'm not gonna go around shooting anything that displeases me. However there is a BIG difference between displeasing me, and outright threatening me.

I'm not trying to put across that i'm a cold blooded killer. Given the situation taht some crim is in my house, i'd most likely pull the gun, and hope they run. If they do, fine. Let them rob someone elses house. But to huddle in my closet with my wife (well, not married yet, but just go with me here) while my hard earned stuff is being stolen by someone who could or could not be possessing a weapon is not for me. I *refuse* to be a criminals bitch. Absolutley refuse. Like i said, I don't wanna have to live in fear of them, I want them to live in fear of me and hopefully their knowledge of my arms will make them think twice.

Something I just thought of, one of those Scandinavian countries requires every home to have an assault rifle IIRC. How are the crime rates there?

Im all honesty, imagine if every household had a longarm, properly locked away from the kids. And the crims knew this. You think theft and assaults would be as high? Imagine if every college girl carried a pistol easy access with them, and had training on depolying it and using it. I bet a lot of would be rapists would think twice before trying to rape the girl carrying the .44.

I dunno, but i just think that if all the smart and eligible had the active defense, personal crims would go down.

I understand what you're saying but I don't think it'd be proper to shoot somebody for "attempting" to steal something.
And by break in, I mean "break" in - I've had stuff stolen before when I accidently left my garage open - but I believe that is more my fault than it is theirs (and they didn't take anything of any real value - just stuff I'd have sold for $1 at a garage sale anyway)
Of course, you could always buy a "tresspassers will be shot" sign - there's alot out here where I live.

True no reason to blast some one if not needed yea being robbed must suck but if i walked in my house or woke up and someones in there i don't know i got every right to do whats needed if shooting him is needed i would hope its not needed but it might be. When you pull a gun you get one of 4 things either they freeze attack you listin to your orders (hopfully to lie down while you dial 911 and keep an eye on him) or a combo of them. if he freezes you can call the cops too if he attacks you you have to protect your self. Its sad we need to have a debate about this cause its a shame that people would steal threaten or hurt each other but thats the world for you.

Justifiable murder I say no.

if it is justifiable then it is not murder it becomes justifiable homocide

eh. semantics. I couldn't think of the word "homocide" at the time.:tongue:

I dont think you can come to a "I will shoot anybody whos in my house" conclusion. There are a huge amount of variables.

How do you know the intruder is going to rob you? You dont. He could just be burgling the place. Call the cops first, they ARE TRAINED TO DEAL WITH OFFENDERS.

If you are really that paranoid about someone breaking in in the middle of the night, invest in a good alarm with a panic button. Buy pepper spray or a baton (but make sure you know how to use it first). A ASP would do nicely for the home. Dont buy a PR24, thats overkill. So to speak.


You will very rarely get away with shooting someone, although it depends on what they are doing at time. Self Defense laws. I really really dont want to go into S48 in this post.

Originally posted by zebrathree
How do you know the intruder is going to rob you? You dont. He could just be burgling the place. Call the cops first, they ARE TRAINED TO DEAL WITH OFFENDERS.

Incorrect! If someone is in my house, they have violated my space. The cops will never respond in time. Cops never stop crime, they only clean up afterwards. Does that mean that they should be killed? Depends. I will have my .45 I will say DON'T FUCKING MOVE ASSHOLE OR I'LL BLOW YOU'RE FUCKING HEAD OFF!! Should the fucker make any kind of move, I will blow his fucking head off. Then I'll call the cops to come and get the asshole.

I will not allow someone to "burglerize" my place under any circumstance.

Yeah... so i can wait for 20 minutes while the cops stop by dunkin donuts first so they are nice and full before they come to my aid. Dun think so. And if i use a baton, how do i know that guy isn;t better than me at that? I know he can't dodge bullets. House alarms are overrated. Hell even I can pick my way into houses.

I hope you two have a nice time in prision. :)

Originally posted by zebrathree
I hope you two have a nice time in prision. :)

If O.J. can kill because he's pissed off and cops can shoot someone carying a toy gun then, we'll have no problems at all.

If O.J. can kill because he's pissed off But the glove didn't fit lol. we'll have no problems at all. True at the time the Self defence laws are gaining power a while ago it was horrid to think you could protect your self belonings and family i mean how dare you:rolleyes: I remeber a robber sueing a family cause he tripped over a skateboard in the house he was robbing made over 100k :thefinger him.

I totally agree that if someones breaks into your house you have the right to shoot and kill them. In Texas this is legal, it even includes if you catch someone breaking into your car. As long as you shoot them while their in your car/house you have the right. And all the people who bitch b/c you pumped a whole clip in to their punk ass would probably think differently if they felt their life or property could be taken from them. And those who do steal, I have no pitty for and wish them all the most horrifying death they can die.

i think that once a person has crossed over into the realms of being a felon, they chose to forfeit their rights for personal safety. if you choose to break into a house, you don't have the right to sue them for injuring you, that's bullshit, it was your fault in the first place. f*ck rights for criminals (at least before they are in the slammer), if a stranger was in my house, i would not hesitate to inflict harm on them...this doesn't mean kill them, just incapacitate them. in my mind, whatever it takes to assure my safety is what needs to be done, they broke into my damn house!!!

Originally posted by zebrathree
How do you know the intruder is going to rob you? You dont. He could just be burgling the place. Call the cops first, they ARE TRAINED TO DEAL WITH OFFENDERS.

If you are really that paranoid about someone breaking in in the middle of the night, invest in a good alarm with a panic button. Buy pepper spray or a baton (but make sure you know how to use it first). A ASP would do nicely for the home. Dont buy a PR24, thats overkill. So to speak.


.

This topic is quite interesting. Everyone thinks they have the right answer. The reality is, you have to make a split second decision in similar circumstances. Any hesitation on your part could result in harm or worse to you and your loved ones. You really have to be "in fear of your own life" to use lethal responses. Calling the cops is really the best thing to do, but you may not have the time. I called the cops when someone broke into my garage, alarm went off, dog was barking her head off and the arrived in a few minutes and asked me if I went out to investigate, what are they kidding? A person on dope will not be affected by any spray, hell there are cases of doped up robbers being shot by a 38 special and just kept on running. With police resources so low, I depend on my ownself to protect my loved ones.

A person on dope will not be affected by any spray, hell there are cases of doped up robbers being shot by a 38 special and just kept on running yea and most cops (around here anyway) carry 9mms they tear through you doesn't faze a crack head i've been told by a cop i know who found out first hand. As nice as it would be to hit a robber with pepper spay or some non leathal way they just don't really have the stopping power a .45 SN does. I hope it never happenes to anyone but if it i did i won't hold them protecting there own lives on them we as humans have a right to not live in fear.

Originally posted by carnut

A person on dope will not be affected by any spray, hell there are cases of doped up robbers being shot by a 38 special and just kept on running.

I fail to see your link between firearms and OC spray. I dont know the medical reasons behind one not dieing immediatly after being shot, but I believe it has something to do with the increased adrenaline (sp). This is opposed to a spray which clogs up the eyes, nose and can cause loss of balance. Therefore incapacitating the offender.

Granted it doesnt work on everyone, but its better than killing someone. Isnt it?

Originally posted by zebrathree


Granted it doesnt work on everyone, but its better than killing someone. Isnt it?

In a perfect world, yes you are right, BUT if myself or a loved one is in IMMEDIATE DANGER and the intruder has a weapon that can cause serious and lethal wounds, I wouldn't hesitate to take his/her life. You won't have time to rethink your situation, you have to react immediately. When was the last time you saw anyone, even peace officers use a spray on a person displaying a gun, even a realistic toy gun? I did grab a knife from someone once, and cut the shit out of my hand, I didn't think of my own safety, just my son's.

with that type of mentality, you stand a high chance or seeing the inside of a jail cell. I work in Corrections, and I see that type of mentality every day, and it gets the inmates no where fast. The only force needed, is the minimal needed to get the job done. Is a car, which is insured worth another mans life? sure, it sucks rocks to have it taken, and I would be pissed as hell to have mine stolen, but I am not going to go and kill the guy because he stole my car. I'd rather watch him sit in that jail cell and suffer for a few years ..... meanwhile, I'm out driving in my NEW car, that the insurance money paid for

:iagree:

I agree 100%, and by the way, I commend you for having such a mature attitude!

My point was the posts which said "I shoot anyone who is in my house". Noone ever mentioned a firearm. If an offender has a firearm, yeah sure, shoot him if no other options exist. You were the only one to mention that.

Originally posted by zebrathree
My point was the posts which said "I shoot anyone who is in my house". Noone ever mentioned a firearm. If an offender has a firearm, yeah sure, shoot him if no other options exist. You were the only one to mention that.

Let's look at other scenarios. What if he had a large knife, baseball bat, tire iron, 2x4 lumber, a sword (as in the recent attack in a market, the police shot and killed him), etc. These are all lethal weapons. Hell, a frozen steak can be called a lethal weapon. Do you think a burglar, robber, intruder has any common sense, if he/she did, they wouldn't be doing the crime. This is real life. Sure, in a car jacking let the thief have the car, it can be replaced, it still is no assurance of your safety. A little while back, a driver was shot in the back after he gave up his car. I still have no sympathy for any intruder who violates my space. You may get away with your life, but what about the next victim when the thief gets a little more confident and brazen? Everyone will treat situations differently, but safety for myself and loved ones comes first.

Interesting thread indeed. Someone came onto my front porch last night at about 1:30am and started banging loudly on my windows. I woke up my father and as we went to the front of the house to investigate, my mother called us back and said she heard someone banging on kitchen door which leads into the garage. I can assure you that when my dad and I went out to investigate, that if I came around the corner and saw a strange person standing there, I would NOT ask them any questions nor would I give a crap what their answers were. I would put them on the ground and once they were completely incapacitated I would ask questions. I didn't have any guns, my dad grabbed my 16 gauge shotty, but failed to find any shells for it. Like he said, they wouldn't know that it wasn't loaded. Yes I own guns and yes if I woke in the night the find someone I didn't know prowling around my house I would shoot them. I would try to get them to get on the ground and wait for the police to arrive, but if they made any moves towards me or the door they would probably get shot. Just my $.02.

Originally posted by carnut
A person on dope will not be affected by any spray, hell there are cases of doped up robbers being shot by a 38 special and just kept on running.

Sidenote: That's why the .45 was invented in the first place! Yes folks, in 1911, John M. Browning came out with the model M-1911 .45 calibre semi-automatic pistol to replace the the .38 revolvers in the Philippines and Panama because the .38 was incapable of stopping the opium-high attackers. The .45 round consists usually of a 230 grain FMJ bullet traveling at 835 feet per second, with an average stopping power of ~350 ft-lbs. Basically, one .45 slug will ruin your day.

I prefer the .44 mag round myself, but meh, different strokes..


Back to topic.

I get carjacked, and I do what "they" say to do; follow the carjackers orders. So o get out, and he gets in and...

1. He drives away with my car, I'm unhurt, and i get mney from insurance. Everything's all honkey dorey.

-or-

2. He gets in my car, decides that me seeing his face was probably not best for him, puts 4 or 5 or 8 bullets in me, THEN drives away.

But of course, THAT never happens, carjackers NEVER shoot their victims after they have the car, crooks NEVER shoot victims in their house, of of course, robbers NEVER shoot the clerks at convinience stores.

hmm...

If you harm any of my family seriously or maliciously, you WILL die.
example; you find out that some 33 yr-old pervert has been molesting your 4yr-old son, what do you do? I know what i would do...kidnap the SOB, tie him to a chair in my basement and torture the motherfucker with hot irons and branding rods up HIS ass, and then murder the bitch slowly, REAL slow, and when he is breathing his last breath, I'll tell him to burn in hell....