R33 GTS25T vs. HSV Commodore

Hi guys,
Well around my town of mildura there are lots of V8 holdens, mainly p-platers who buy the VR commodore V8, or the later model V8's.

I just wanted to know how my car would compare to their V8 commodores.

So far i have HKS intercooler, exhaust and dump pipe. Cold air intake, blitz pod filter. This week im fitting a turbosmart boost controller and boosting it up to around 11psi for when out cruising.

Most of the V8's here arent that special. Theres probly one or 2 clubsports but thats about it.
Most of them look and sound like pretty stock cars.

Andrew

Compare in what way?? :p You already know it's far far cooler :coolguy: :ylsuper And I believe you've previously described whipping some Jurassic Arse with the 25t, so...... does that answer your question?? :p

yeah i know they are way cooler, sorry i meant in speed, acceleration.
Ive only really had a few drags against a few V8's which isnt really a wide variety of what else could be out there.

So yeah i meant how do they compare in power (at rear wheels) 0-100, quarter mile, power 2 weight ratio, etc, etc.
(really, i just wanna know how much skylines kick V8's butts :D )

this is a silly question really isn't it.

i would have a guess and say you'll beat all unless they are 250kW + and then it's who can drive better (especially if theres some corners).

stil race all, my friend took out my next door neighbour the other day and he drives a 300kW GTS holden. and my friends car is a NA 300ZX.
i bet the holden drivers wishes it wasn't raining :flipa:
and corners were part of the imagination

still, you should see the front of that sucka lift up when he manages to get it in a gear, looks like the big green thunderbird taking off:eek:

Be vewy vewy qwiet we are hunting cwommadows:flash: :flipa: :flash:

the one I like as in commodores it the blue vp around my area with the venitan blinds and tame looking wheels with the very strong motor shift kit etc and the tiny sticker on the rear window
C.O.M.E
Racing pull you stock gtr up against theis guy and he will waste you.
meggala

bah just pulled the protection of the boost and line your "Stock" GTR up next to him.. :rolleyes:

Was funny the other day, this guy pulled up in his V6 Holden. Music cranking and he was going to race us.. I was in a 1800 GTi Pulsar..

He took off wheels squelling... we got to second and said goodbye, man it was funny!! I couldn't believe how slow it was.. :finger: but there are some mean V8's!!

Still fastest holden I have seen here is a crappy one with stock wheels etc with a RB30DETT in it, LOL!! :D

meggala,
u reckon a commodore would "waste" a GTR????? I doubt that very much......:rolleyes:
Yeah ive seen a VX with number plate DETT, so maybe he had a nissan engine????

Probably. The one here is about 450hp at the rear wheels... traction is impossible..


Funny when he scares GTR's though.. in a ugly holden

Ethan_R33,
Funny you should post this question, I was travelling through your way (Mildura) in August of this yr (transiting the GTS25t to SA to live) In the 2 days I was there I noticed the large # of V8's.

I had a little run through town vs a guy in a VS 5L Ute (lumpy idle loud exhaust etc..) both runs I nailed him (once I got traction:)) but he was cool & gave me a thumbs up :D

To answer your ?, the 5L Commodores are "usually" no match for a healthy stock or mildly modified GTS25t, although on the street anything can happen & there are "some" very fast 5L's gettin' around. The LS1 powered Commies are much stronger & very evenly matched.

I've run 2 VX SS', the first was modified & caught me off boost & off guard, I caught him in 3rd but he backed off b4 I got him, so he won that run. The 2nd was stock & he got the jump, but I was ready & I got him pretty easily.

@ AIR on the Sunday there was 1 or 2 VR/VS 5L street cars (simple mods, exhaust etc..) they were all running in the low 15's

what is this a f#%#en holden lovers forum that piece of c%^p commonhore might go fast but what happens when it gets to a bend it slows down and the gtr flys past and thats if it even gets in front of the GTR.:flipa: :flipa: :finger:

meggala are you talkin bout the supercharged one?

sorry just cant stand the thaught of a crummadore beating a GTR

blacksky: yeah same here mate, but dont worry, the holden would have to be somethinh special and have about 100grand spent on it to keep up with a skyline.

Whatsisname: hey mate, so did u like mildura??? Did you go cruising down deakin ave, the really big one that goes right through town with all the stop lights and a big plantation in the middle??

And i actually think i know which ute you mean. But theres heaps of f*%kin utes around here.

Also you have a car that seems fairly modified to me, with the ECU, fuel system, etc. Your 25T would probably be a fair bit faster than my near stock one. So would that make any difference against 5L commonwhores????

Hey s14man, settle down, I'm no Dunnydoor lover, but a N/A Z giving it to a 300kw Door is just absolute crap.


stil race all, my friend took out my next door neighbour the other day and he drives a 300kW GTS holden. and my friends car is a NA 300ZX.


:devil: :devil:

i'm not shittin you man. big dog leg right hander with a little (too little for the big bird) straight out the back. my mates got competition suspension and alot more balls so we peeled him round the corner and even though he was gaining rapidly on the straight it didn't matter, he just didn't want to push hard round the corner and henceforth we got to the lights a half a car length ahead. then we got to watch him follow us all the way home in traffic, squirting the big green thunderbird wherever possible ( they are funny to watch cause the whole front lifts up quite alot).

if its wet then hes gonna always struggle around tight smooth slippery pieces of road so go sideways round the corner and see how long you can hold im out for.

yeah ndr, seriously, just because they advertise 300kw, doesnt really mean anything. Thats 300kw with the engine out of the car by itself!!!
You take lots of that off from the drivetrain, and also from the sheer gigantic weight of the commonwhores. They weigh alot more than Z's or skylines. So i wouldnt be surprised if a N/A Z would give it a run for its moeny.

S13man, i love your signature, i find myself telling my girlfriend that all the time

I wish that crummadore was over here i have NEVER lost against a holden there launch from the lights is pathetic.
LONG LIVE THE MIGHTY SKYLINE:flipa: :finger: :flipa: :flash:

Originally posted by Ethan_R33
Whatsisname: hey mate, so did u like mildura??? Did you go cruising down deakin ave, the really big one that goes right through town with all the stop lights and a big plantation in the middle??

And i actually think i know which ute you mean. But theres heaps of f*%kin utes around here.

Also you have a car that seems fairly modified to me, with the ECU, fuel system, etc. Your 25T would probably be a fair bit faster than my near stock one. So would that make any difference against 5L commonwhores????

Yeah Mildura was nice. Yep Deakin Ave was the one, very short distance between lights (ie not much room to put lengths on a challenger ;))

The ute was blue or green?, I can't remember?

My car is slightly modified, but with the larger turbo comes a tad more lag (500rpm or so) & the extra power once on boost, sometimes results in excessive wheelspin, if I'm ready (holding 2000-2500rpm on green/launch) & I get the power down I'm laughin'.

Your car, if it's nice & healthy, should be 120-130rwkw stock, that gives it a power to weight advantage over "most" 5L Commodores, if you get off the line quickly you'll do very well against them. But as I said earlier, anything can & does happen on the street, it's not always the most powerful & quickest car that comes out on top.

Footnote: Of course, all the above is purely hypothetical ;)

What exactly are the stock times for these cars (commo's and GTS25t's)
i've heard 6.96 or 6.21 0-100km/h and 14.3 quarter....all for the R33 GTS25t...

With a good car & driver, both are fairly close (GTS25t vs. LS1 Commie).

Mid / Low 6's - 0-100 & Mid / Low 14's for the 1/4 (Manual)

I've seen anything from low 14's to mid 15's, from a stock (or near to) 5sp GTS25t.
The day I ran 13.1 there was another 5sp GTS25t running, it had a few mods (exhaust/filter/boost, just the basic's) he got 14.6's-14.8's due to crap rear rubber & traction issues (it was his first time on a drag strip too), his terminal speeds were around 100mph I think?

hey whatsisname,
yeah theres definitely not much room between stop lights.
Hey what color is your car, i actually have seen a few skylines around lately.

And im pretty sure my car is about 150 rwkw, which is ok i spose. But im getting a boost controller soon and upping the boost to around 12psi.
So maybe a few more kws????

And what is the best launch revs?? Some people say 6500 to 7000?!?!? i would probly just sit there spinning the wheels at those revs.

Uhhhhh.......I'm getting dissy watching blacksky's car........:bloated:

Sub Boy watching blacksky's car going round & round &....

:) :D :hehehe: :huh: :uhoh: :what: :help: :apuke:

Ethan_R33,
My GTS25t is burgundy/wine red, I was only in Mildura for 2 or 3dys, back in early Aug.
Sorry mate, I didn't realise you already had some mods, with your current mods you "should" be around the 150rwkw mark, maybe more, it depends on how your ECU is coping.

Launch revs depend on a # of variables, tyres / power levels / power delivery (linear or boost with a big rush) / road surface / tyre temp, launch technique (slip or dump the clutch), rear suspension set-up (lowering without correcting excessive neg camber is a sure fire way of destroying rear grip levels) the list is a big one!!!

When it comes to launch technique I'm no expert, that's for sure!!!, I guess it's just a matter of practice & find what works best, grippy tyres & good quality well aligned suspension are a huge help.

YAHOOOO LOOK AT THAT CAR GO:bonghitte:bonghitte:bonghitte:bonghitte:silly:: buck

you have a wine red skyline???? same here!!!!! Mines wine red with a GTR front bumper, nismo side skirts and a double rear spoiler in silver. (i think its east bear brand)

I actually think i saw you a couple of times and so did my brother. He said he saw a red skyline like mine and thought it was me. Do you have the standard rear spoiler, like the curvey shaped one???? And a lowered front bumper???

Also...... my mum was going to melbourne around that time and stopped off at the ouyen service station and saw a wine red skyline that was being filled up. And she said she talked to they guy and asked him about his car becoz her son has one VERY similar. She also said he filled it up then poured some stuff out of a bottle into it too.
So was this you!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?
Could quite possibly be

Now back to launching. sometimes when i launch it at too high revs, the wheels spin and the sort of shudders and bounces a bit. Feels really weird :bloated:
But usually when i drop it at around 2500 to 3000 it launches really nice. A little bit of wheel spin and off she goes!:)

Naaa, the guy filling up @ the servo your mum saw, that doesn't sound like me, unless it was a 20L jerry can of Optimax being put into the tank, I don't really use octane booster (& didn't on the trip across).

The other car you & your brother saw, might've been me??? but my rear wing is neither a GTR style or a standard series 1 or 2 type (have a look at the pic below) my cars front bar & grill is GTR style.

The shuddering & bouncing you described when you launch sometimes, sounds like axle tramp, which is not very good!!! bad for quick take offs & the rear suspension/diff. 2000-2500rpm works for me (on the street) :)


Edit: oops!!! :o might help if I actually post the link.
http://www.skylinesdownunder.co.nz/profiles/ozzy/pics/whatisname_006.jpg

Alright, yeah or it could have even been something like petrol/injector cleaner.

And you said look at the pic below, but where do you mean????

Is that a mechanical problem with the shuddering/bouncing?????
Or am i just launching the wrong way, which results in that?

See my edit in my previous post mate, for the piccie of my car :D sorry.

The axle tramp (shuddering & bouncing) isn't a mechanical prob, although it can be totally eliminated by suspension mods. I was lucky enough to spend a day driving a 98 model Doge Viper RT/10 early this yr, it had the worse axle tramp I've ever experienced :eek:

very nice car mate.

Your color actually looks a bit different to mine. Mine is sort of a bit darker and more metallic i think. Ill try and get a good pic of it today ot tomorrow for ya.
Pffffft, dodge viper. Nuthin compared to a skyline. Just imagine the money youd hafta spend on a viper. If u bought a skyline and modded it with the same amount youd have a bloody monster of a thing!

Originally posted by Ethan_R33
Pffffft, dodge viper. Nuthin compared to a skyline. Just imagine the money youd hafta spend on a viper. If u bought a skyline and modded it with the same amount youd have a bloody monster of a thing!

Hey cmon you gotta have some respect for it... 8 litre V10 and will run low 12s standard!!

Pretty fast in race trim too, although the brakes are its achilles heel (spelling i know :D).

yeah morgs i know, i know.
Im just a diehard skyline fan:D
But ya gotta admit. expensive for one.
And as i said if u spent the same money on buying a GTR and modding it, it would probly kick its ass in every category.

Ive got to say i'd absolutely love a Viper, it'd be just about unique around these parts, plenty of go and that torque.. mmmm.

However yes you are right i wouldn't pay that much money even if i did have enough to buy one, a modfied R32 GTR would be substantial :D

Trust me, the Viper is an awesome beast!!!, not as expensive in it's homeland either, in fact a new Viper would be cheaper than an R34 (maybe even an R33?) GTR, but the build quality isn't anything to write home about.

A 98 Model Viper is 450hp & 12.5 @ 118mph out of the box.
The torque right off idle is impressive!!! Even driving in the USA we had people looking & commenting everywhere we went.

Ethan_R33,
The pic isn't real good, our cars are probably the same colour (mine is metallic too, up close you can really notice the metallic).

Damn Whatisname.. that wouldve been an awesome drive !

How much are they... i think i saw one advertised in the paper for $150K australian odd..... compared to a R34 GTR i drove at $120K, $30,000 of mods is alot of HP.

Yeah mate it was a blast :D

A brand spankin' new '01 Viper is ~60 to 70kUS (RT/10 is cheaper than GTS)
A '96 R33 GT-R V Spec (22k on the clock) is going for 53.5kUS on the Motorex website, so 97-98 R33's & 2nd hand R34 GT-R's would be close to, or even more than that!!!

But both the OZ Viper prices & US GT-R prices are majorly inflated anyway, due to limited #'s of importers (Motorex is it for the GT-R in the US!!!).

Just my two cents of input on the original question,
I am a regular driver at the Kwinana motorplex drag night in Perth, aust. 70% of the cars there are V8s so I think I have a good idea of what I can and cant beat.

Lets have a run down.. my car is a stock R33 GTS-t... pod filter, about 11psi boost (maybe 12 or 13) and a bit of self tuning.. my best run was a 13.8 second pass at 164 ish km/h.

My friend has a VR HSV clubsport.. with an exhaust... he never gets any chance of beating me at all. Even up hill.

Another friend has a VT 5L with extractors, exhaust and cold air intake.. He also has never beat me though he tries constantly.

Ive dragged SS commodores by the handful, a stock one has never caught me.. including a VX item.

Probably one of the quicker HSVs.. the maloo ute was a handful though.. runs the same quarter times as my R33 did.

All in all, I believe the only real stock V8 challenge for a slightly modified GTS-t like your own would be a light hsv like the maloo.. or a beast such as an LS1 clubbie or GTS.

But there are quite a few modified SS commodores and the like floating around here.. dont ever assume you'll beat it, just cause it is a commodore. Ive been caught out a few times :)

So the only mod/s your GTS25t has are a pod filter & some form of boost bleed (must be if your running 11-13psi) & that was good enough for 13.8 @ 101-102mph, very impressive effort for just a filter & a few xtra psi!!! Well done mate :)

I HAD a VS 5.0L Manual Commonwhore, With IRS. 3" Exhaust and Chipped.. The Mods were done before I received the car.
It came from Sydney owned by some wog dude...

Apparently it was getting nearly 140rwkw's

With std radials on the rear it was hard to launch (2000rpm) as 1st gear would wind out to 70 clicks, It was either Wheel spin or no wheel spin (slug until 3000rpm).. Any way I fitted retreads to the rear and could launch the thing at around 3500 with just a slight twitch all the way through first gear.

The only cars that would nail me off the line ( in Adelaide) was a VL Turbo called BOOSTN or sumthing on the number plate..
It had what sounded like a massive stall converter he launched and was off but i sat on his rear bumper right up to 140 klicks where we both backed off.. As down Anzac highway that is just a little tooo quick..
The VR V8 Auto Ute was around about 4-5 Car lengths Back...

But i decided to sell it coz After I broke a gearbox, diff and the arse end's irs chassis through the diff bolts (whole arse end droped to the ground) and to get more power it was going to cost in the region of $5000 plus..

The funny thing was I didn't drive it hard.. .
Only when something would want a run next to me....

Cars I had beat:

Pulled in Stock WRX in second and past in third..
A White R32 Skyline with Exhaust with a loud Blow Off Valve.
A Red R33 GTS-T Skyline with Exhaust (Was slower than the R32 Skyline)
Mates GT EB Flacon with Lumpy Cam... & 3 1/2" Exhaust and Fuel Computer...
VB V8 4 Speed with Cam and 500 holley...
VT 5.0L Auto
VT 5.7L Auto
Nissan Silvia Turbo
Mazda Famila
VP HSV Auto Commonwhore...

Cars I had Lost to:

A Blue Very Clean Stock Looking and Quiet XY Maybe a little earlier Falcon. In Slow Motion It Literally Fellt like I was still winding out First while he had launced 2 car lengths in front and Started stabbing the throttle...
A White Wagon WRX with a old 45+ yr old bloke driving it.. Really cleaned me up.. I was no show... Before I had even finished letting go of the clutch he was 3 cars in front..

Thats when I decided to sell the car...

Any way I Ended Up Buying a R32 GTS-T Skyline... Much nicer build quality and feel than a Commonwhore... No shitty riding the clutch in town due to high gear ratios...

Sorry for the long post the Jacks are starting to make me dribble on a bit..

Did you ever run the Commodore down the 1/4 @ AIR?

No i didn't,

I was going to if I either
(A) Supercharged it or
(B) Stuck a Roller Camm, LIfters, Rockers

Years Back:
I used to have TE Cortina 250 4 Speed with a Holly, Alloy Head Kidney Chamber Head, Hi Comp Pistions, and a mild cam.
I know that was getting 138rwkw..

It actually felt faster than the commodore...
But it kept on pulling out the rear trailing arm that connects to the diff..
Must be my driving style and the 7 single rail gearboxes and 2
Automatics that i broke.

So youre saying youve never lost to a skyline???
Mate ive dragged heaps of V8's mostly newer models, and tonnes of fords too. Sometimes they get the jump, but i always reel them in by second.
How many skylines have you raced????

Originally posted by -Joel-
I HAD a VS 5.0L Manual Commonwhore, With IRS. 3" Exhaust and Chipped.. The Mods were done before I received the car.
It came from Sydney owned by some wog dude...

Apparently it was getting nearly 140rwkw's

With std radials on the rear it was hard to launch (2000rpm) as 1st gear would wind out to 70 clicks, It was either Wheel spin or no wheel spin (slug until 3000rpm).. Any way I fitted retreads to the rear and could launch the thing at around 3500 with just a slight twitch all the way through first gear.

The only cars that would nail me off the line ( in Adelaide) was a VL Turbo called BOOSTN or sumthing on the number plate..
It had what sounded like a massive stall converter he launched and was off but i sat on his rear bumper right up to 140 klicks where we both backed off.. As down Anzac highway that is just a little tooo quick..
The VR V8 Auto Ute was around about 4-5 Car lengths Back...

But i decided to sell it coz After I broke a gearbox, diff and the arse end's irs chassis through the diff bolts (whole arse end droped to the ground) and to get more power it was going to cost in the region of $5000 plus..

The funny thing was I didn't drive it hard.. .
Only when something would want a run next to me....

Cars I had beat:

Pulled in Stock WRX in second and past in third..
A White R32 Skyline with Exhaust with a loud Blow Off Valve.
A Red R33 GTS-T Skyline with Exhaust (Was slower than the R32 Skyline)
Mates GT EB Flacon with Lumpy Cam... & 3 1/2" Exhaust and Fuel Computer...
VB V8 4 Speed with Cam and 500 holley...
VT 5.0L Auto
VT 5.7L Auto
Nissan Silvia Turbo
Mazda Famila
VP HSV Auto Commonwhore...

Cars I had Lost to:

A Blue Very Clean Stock Looking and Quiet XY Maybe a little earlier Falcon. In Slow Motion It Literally Fellt like I was still winding out First while he had launced 2 car lengths in front and Started stabbing the throttle...
A White Wagon WRX with a old 45+ yr old bloke driving it.. Really cleaned me up.. I was no show... Before I had even finished letting go of the clutch he was 3 cars in front..

Thats when I decided to sell the car...

Any way I Ended Up Buying a R32 GTS-T Skyline... Much nicer build quality and feel than a Commonwhore... No shitty riding the clutch in town due to high gear ratios...

Sorry for the long post the Jacks are starting to make me dribble on a bit..
what was your 1/4 mile time?

I Never said never..... Stock no..

hey joel.
140rwkw isnt that much either for the mods u had for a V8 commodore.
Mine is still fairly stock with stock boost, and 150rwkw.
Upping boost to 12psi next week and hopefully 160-170??????

I always thought i may have had a slight cam in it as on idle the thing would jiggle around a bit... and have a very broop brop broop brop broop noise..

It was quite gutless below 3000rpm - 3500rpm...
It felt like power would start to die off just before 6500..
I'm not sure where they usually make power but..
When i had the diff rebuild it had a 3.28 or 3.27 crown wheel in it..

The cortina i know had close to 140 rwkw and also apparently the commonwhore with the exhaust, fuel & manual gets around the 140 too..

My friend has a VR SS with a lumpy cam in it... pulled 143rwkw with the cam timing out by about 45 degrees ;)

Now its just untuned and uses 20L/100km... he can't find anyone do map his dodgy chip so he'll need a new one.

if anyone in a skyline gtst is worried about beating a commo then i feel sorry for all. Anything but the 300kw hsv dont really go for shit. :flipa:
There is no way a N/A 300zx will keep up or even give it to a 300kw hsv im afraid. The 300zx in N/A form doesnt even crack the low 15 second 1/4's let alone be able to hold off a high 13 second car. Ive raced one of these 300kw hsv's and thats what it pulled , a 13.7 so i doubt a 300 N/A would keep up , but you can keep dreaming. As for normal commo v8's they are buckets:o and go nowhere compared to a skyline with even just a bit of boost and exhaust.

ok, i saw it with my own eyes. i tell ya, all you need is a 90 degree turn some slippery road, and a lil rain and hey presto, 300kW don't mean shit. 3hundy on rails, comod derailed

Well, the Great Silver Whale, aka my R33 GTS25t, made 140 kW at the wheels (http://moondog.250x.com/images/dyno-3.11.gif) totally stock. :D :D (Just thought I'd throw that in, cos I'm still quite chuffed about it :flipa: )

I haven't actually encountered any Commonwhores yet, but we'll see... :D :devil:

hey good stuff Raf, youll be able to kick those V8's asses.


ps sorry if the signature pic is too big, just trying it out.

is it there now???:confused:

guys how do i get a pic in the signature???
i uploaded it, put the URL address in there but it doesnt show up??

pfft japshit.no substitute for cubic inches

pfft japshit.no substitute for cubic inches

No substitute for looking at the post dates either, n00b. Are you so eager to start a "import vs. V8" flamewar that you have to bring up a 2 1/2 year old thread? :rolleyes:

No substitute for looking at the post dates either, n00b. Are you so eager to start a "import vs. V8" flamewar that you have to bring up a 2 1/2 year old thread? :rolleyes:

sorry but hahahahahahahahaha, i just had to laugh at this. beautiful reply i must say :biggrin: my feeling exactly VQuick, too many noobs bringing up old threads everywhere :p

pfft japshit.no substitute for cubic inches

An no subsititute for ignorance.

Stop bring up dead threads and posting in such a mannor to draw negative attention. Consider it a warning.