1999 GT WC Need advise and sympathy

Bought a 1999 GTWC five months ago and during my first track event spun several bearings on the second lap. Was referred to a mechanic with a very nice and clean shop who pulled the motor, sent it to a machine shop who builds motors and had them assemble a short block who subsequently reused the pistons but put in a new crank, rods, bearings, and align honed block. The engine was reassembled with a new oil cooler and Acusump. He found several wiring problems like the fan which was wired directly to a fan switch without going through a relay. After 8 hours of rewiring, fixing a rear diff oil leak and a tranny oil leak the total parts and labor came to $9k. They then sent it to a dyno shop for tuning and to confirm HP and apparently after logged and safe pull's shown on a dyno sheet the engine popped. They used a bore scope and found the #7 piston had come apart destroying the head and punching a hole in the block. The guy now tells me he can get a junk yard 4.6 4 cam to put in the car which he says will cost him $2k plus labor but I will now at least be out the door with a functioning car. I will have the shop get all cylinder pressures and dyno the car. Any sage advise to a very frustrated Panoz owner?

1) Pistons don't just come apart on an N/A motor. Something hit it or it was damaged to begin with (by something hitting it)

2) The car never left his possession and blew up on the dyno, and he's saying it's YOUR problem? Hmmm. Not the way I do business.

3) Not all 4V's are created equal. IMO, the only "factory" 4V that will stand up to racing abuse is the 03-04 Cobras. The others (98-01) have pressed-powder rods. OK for the street, not for road-racing. 4V's were also installed in Navigators, again- with pressed powder rods. You could end up with a 100K+ engine out of an SUV. Again, my opinion, I would NOT put a junk-yard motor in and expect long lasting results.

The only really reputable Mod-Motor builders I know of are Sean Hyland Motorsports and DSS Machine. (look for both on a Google search) I personally would have questioned your builder about how many mod-motors he's built. They are WAY different than push-rod motors, and need special mods to the chain tensioners (among other things) to race them.

Crap luck. Sorry to hear it. Personally? I would demand he fix the motor that HE OR THE DYNO SHOP blew up. If you had taken delivery and blew it up on your first track day, it would be your problem. (IMO) Hate to say it, but if he balks, I'd hire a lawyer. The fact he's saying it's your problem is pure BS.

Panoz 60, I should have clarified my post by saying the shop owner did not blame me at all for the motor popping and the $2k he is spending to get a salvage motor is not being billed to me either. I am not paying one cent more than I already have and he is aware of this. I do understand the differences in the 4v mod motors and that getting a high mileage pos is a risk but I did tell the shop owner that once he gets the motor it must have good even compression on all cylinders, pass a lead down test, have good oil pressure, and must make good power on a dyno with all of this done in my presence or it is no deal. In retrospect I should have either gotten him to build an LS motor or bought a crate motor from Hyland or some other source, but I am where I am at this point. Looking for any other advise going forward that would help me.

Just noticed..Naples? We're almost neighbors. Anyway....

To me, in my own little world, it's a matter of principle. You never took possession of the car. In my opinion, any and all "blame" (and responsibility) should lie solely with the shop owner. You paid for a service you have yet to receive. You did not pay for a junk yard motor (which would not have yielded a bill of 9K) The engine coming apart should be his problem, regardless of the circumstances.

Example..I run a coating shop. If I coat something and it doesn't turn out right, or it gets dropped and damaged, or gets stolen, or a meteor drops on the shop and destroys it, I am responsible for the part(s). My customers pay me for a service we agree upon. If the circumstances change on my end for any reason, I am still responsible for delivering the product/service as originally agreed. So, why isn't he building you a new engine? At a minimum, he should at least refund you for the engine. IDK. I just think it shouldn't be your problem.

Also, since we are in relative close proximity..my engine builder is a local legend. He built engines for Almirola, Nemechek, and Reutimann when they were local racers. While I really know my way around an engine, I know that the abuses I put them through are beyond my skills. I can hook you up with him. He is actually very reasonable and I know he has built Mod-Motors.

I agree with everything you said. This shop owner says they have experience building mod motors and one of his mechanics has a supercharged 03-04 Stang with 600 RWHP they built so I have to trust someone at some point....

I guess I will have to go to the Immokalee drag strip and start asking around to see who really has the best reputation in the Naples/Fort Myers area. I really don't want to drive two hours each way becasue one would think there are plenty of quality motor builders in this area. Believe me, I am not going to get this shop to do anymore motor builds until I am able to find out why the rebuilt motor blew and who is to blame/pay.

I have the 14 numbered Orange with White stripe Panoz bought from Hayes. I run with Chin and HOD and want to get out as soon as its ready. HOD has a PBIR event on April 20 and Chin on May 4th which I cant make and then Chin on June 8th which would be doable. I may do NASA after I get things going.

Not good to hear about your experiences.

Going forward though, if I were in your shoes I would be buying some more tools and doing more of the spannering on the car myself. $9,000 goes a long way when you self spanner and would pay for the odd "learning curve mishap" along the way.

I pretty much use this approach to fund half or more of my racing budget. From engine building to trans and rear end building. There are plenty of knowledgeable folk out there who will help. Sorting the good advice from the less than average is one of the tricks though.

Trust things perk up for you and you get to start enjoying the car.

Kel.

PS - Toss the Ford cammer engine out first chance you get and go pushrod. You cannot beat cubes, torque and lower rpm (sub 6500) for longevity, reliability and going fast on a budget in my view. Apologies to all you Ford cammer lovers in advance!!

PS - Toss the Ford cammer engine out first chance you get and go pushrod. You cannot beat cubes, torque and lower rpm (sub 6500) for longevity, reliability and going fast on a budget in my view. Apologies to all you Ford cammer lovers in advance!!

Kel, I basically agree. I will offer that in my opinion a cammer is the future. The design is far more advanced than an old push rod motor. The bottom ends are actually a throw back, as they resemble the old FE cross-bolted 427's. Very stiff block with excellent main cap retention. (6 bolts per cap) But they have powder rods which is an OEM industry standard now. Put decent rods in them and a stcok block can support 1000+ HP. What I do not like about them is their physical size. They are BIG engines dimensionally. That, and N/A 4V versions do lack bottom torque and power below 3000-3500. But when you spin them up they rev real sweet. Problem is you have to keep them spun up on a road course or risk "bogging down" out of a turn. That's why Ford went to the 3-valve with variable runner lengths.
anyway....

Kel, I basically agree. I will offer that in my opinion a cammer is the future. The design is far more advanced than an old push rod motor. The bottom ends are actually a throw back, as they resemble the old FE cross-bolted 427's. Very stiff block with excellent main cap retention. (6 bolts per cap) But they have powder rods which is an OEM industry standard now. Put decent rods in them and a stcok block can support 1000+ HP. What I do not like about them is their physical size. They are BIG engines dimensionally. That, and N/A 4V versions do lack bottom torque and power below 3000-3500. But when you spin them up they rev real sweet. Problem is you have to keep them spun up on a road course or risk "bogging down" out of a turn. That's why Ford went to the 3-valve with variable runner lengths.
anyway....

Agree Mark, when cammers are more compact and there is the range of aftermarket spares out there to support getting power levels up around the 550 - 650hp mark economically then great. Until then, pushrods rule regards reliable $$/hp. I guess Chev figured this out when they decided to go down the LS design route.

Kel.

Kel, I turned wrenches when I was fielding a competitive ITA car in SCCA 20 years ago but with three school aged kids and a 60 hour a week executive job I quite frankly don't have that kind of time on my hands any longer. My next motor will be an LS but the real question is do I get it built from a junkyard block or buy a crate motor and which one.

Kel, I turned wrenches when I was fielding a competitive ITA car in SCCA 20 years ago but with three school aged kids and a 60 hour a week executive job I quite frankly don't have that kind of time on my hands any longer. My next motor will be an LS but the real question is do I get it built from a junkyard block or buy a crate motor and which one.


I'm a little late to the party as I was off testing my new 302cid short deck motor having blown up my 351 (my fault) in December. First, my sympathies, we've all been there at least to some degree. Back in my sailboat days I picked up the KISS Principle (keep it simple stupid). As applied to my race cars that has translated to pushrods and carburetors -- enough said. My only comment beyond what has already been posted is: Never hire a drag race engine builder to build a Ford pushrod road race engine.
I'm just up in Tallahassee, hope to see you at the track.

All is not lost. I refurbished my WC last year and found that it had Carillo H beam rods installed. I have my own tale of woe (dropped a valve in the first 20 seconds of operation, valve stem broke at the first keeper grove), replaced valves and holed piston, start over again. But all is well now. G;-)

Buy a late model LS1 crate engine for $3k while there are still some left. Check out my build thread for the full re-do on my father's car. Put a good pan on it, a higher volume oil pump, some Z06 springs, a factory timing chain guide, and let it eat. If you want more than 330ish rwhp, a moderate cam will make 390-400 rwhp through the 241 heads. Some porting of the heads and you're 420-440.

These cars are race cars and they were only taken care of well enough to keep running for the school/series or as good as the previous owner's skills/budget/give-a-heck level. Through restoring my father's car I've found almost every component worn in some fashion.

I have good news. The motor was installed and I went to Palm Beach Intl Raceway with the Hooked On Driving club this past Saturday and turned a bunch of laps with no issues. Man was it great to finally get some track time with the Panoz! Turned some 1:32's without pushing too hard which is ok (staying at 6,000 and leaving a lot of braking room into 1 and 10) Looking forward to Sebring on June 8th. I don't know what kind of power this engine is producing but will dyno it later this summer when it is nice and hot ;-) so I can class it conservatively in their super touring class (str3). It weighed 2865 with a couple gallons of fuel and 3028 with me in it.