Battery Drain problem

I have a battery drain problem. I have installed a new battery, a new alternator with 0 results. I have found if I leave the alternator plug disconnected there is no drain. With everything connected, everything works properly, alternator charges as it should, all lights work properly including instrument panel. Its a 2002 Montecarlo. Any Ideas. Thanks.

I have a battery drain problem. I have installed a new battery, a new alternator with 0 results. I have found if I leave the alternator plug disconnected there is no drain. With everything connected, everything works properly, alternator charges as it should, all lights work properly including instrument panel. Its a 2002 Montecarlo. Any Ideas. Thanks.

with the alternator wire disconnected and the issue is gone , then the alternator is defective. you say new alternator , is it new to the vehicle or new like never used before ?

rebuilt is not new and not recommended.

Brand new $170.00 alternator, not rebuilt. Results are the same as with the old original alternator. I can leave the positive wire to the alternator connected but leave the wire plug to the alternator disconnected and there is no drain. Something downstream of the alternator plug is shorted or stuck like the old regulators used to do. I,m old school mechanics and not versed in modules, chips etc, and no wiring diagrahm. Thank you for inquiring. Any help is greatly appreciated. Aleekat,s information was good. The web site he gave me suggested to pull fuses and such while monitoring the drain, however, I,m a little leery to do that just yet since like I say, I,m old school mechanics and don't know what else I might damage. It may come to that. I've checked wiring harness and don't see any apparent damage anywhere. With everything hooked up, there is no alarms, no check engine lights and the vehicle runs like it should. I've pulled the bulb in the trunk and monitored all other lights and found nothing staying on.

There are only two wires in that connector.....one to a fuse, and the other to the PCM......so if this is a new alternator, and it's ok, then I'm leaning towards a PCM.....

But I would like to see an ampmeter on the battery, to see exactly what that draw is.......normally should be under 30 ma, or 0.030 amps.....you disconnect the Negative cable from the battery, and insert the ampmeter in series between the battery (-) terminal and the negative cable......then wait about 15-20 minutes, to give all modules a chance to go to sleep....then, the reading should be at it's lowest...

Brand new $170.00 alternator, not rebuilt. Results are the same as with the old original alternator. I can leave the positive wire to the alternator connected but leave the wire plug to the alternator disconnected and there is no drain. Something downstream of the alternator plug is shorted or stuck like the old regulators used to do. I,m old school mechanics and not versed in modules, chips etc, and no wiring diagrahm. Thank you for inquiring. Any help is greatly appreciated. Aleekat,s information was good. The web site he gave me suggested to pull fuses and such while monitoring the drain, however, I,m a little leery to do that just yet since like I say, I,m old school mechanics and don't know what else I might damage. It may come to that. I've checked wiring harness and don't see any apparent damage anywhere. With everything hooked up, there is no alarms, no check engine lights and the vehicle runs like it should. I've pulled the bulb in the trunk and monitored all other lights and found nothing staying on.


with the key in the off position check that you have no voltage at the small connector wires going to the rear of the alternator[ remove connector]. when the ignition is off you should have no voltage on those wires. if power is there then the field of the alternator is sucking down the battery . the only time volts should be on those wires is when the ignition is on.

I would have the old alternator checked out also .

the f wire is to the field. the regulator is all inside. the other wire is the dash indicator. with the key off there should be no connection to the battery in these circuits. no if the alternator is messed up then this is also possible

you did not have to change the connector ? some do so it will work when not made for the correct vehicle.

There are only two wires in that connector.....one to a fuse, and the other to the PCM......so if this is a new alternator, and it's ok, then I'm leaning towards a PCM.....

But I would like to see an ampmeter on the battery, to see exactly what that draw is.......normally should be under 30 ma, or 0.030 amps.....you disconnect the Negative cable from the battery, and insert the ampmeter in series between the battery (-) terminal and the negative cable......then wait about 15-20 minutes, to give all modules a chance to go to sleep....then, the reading should be at it's lowest...

Could not get a ma reading, don't know why, but did get a 1.77 amp draw with both, the alt plugged in and unplugged. Hooked everything back up, started the car and have ABS and Trac Off alarms, this is new. Now, the amp draw is 8.79 amps and have to totally disconnect alt to get the draw back to the 1.77 amps. Alt is putting out 13.8 volts but ABS and Trac Off alarms will not clear. After giving the car a few minutes, amp draw went back to 1.77 amps. Guess all modules weren,t asleep yet

with the key in the off position check that you have no voltage at the small connector wires going to the rear of the alternator[ remove connector]. when the ignition is off you should have no voltage on those wires. if power is there then the field of the alternator is sucking down the battery . the only time volts should be on those wires is when the ignition is on.

I would have the old alternator checked out also .

the f wire is to the field. the regulator is all inside. the other wire is the dash indicator. with the key off there should be no connection to the battery in these circuits. no if the alternator is messed up then this is also possible

you did not have to change the connector ? some do so it will work when not made for the correct vehicle.

This is a two wire plug. It is on top of the alternator, not on the back. Unplugged from the alternator, key off, there is 12 volts to one of the wires. Did not change the plug, all original. I have no way to check with it plugged up.

According to my schematics, the orange wire going to the alternator harness should be hot at all times.....

Since you have a 1.77 amp draw(that is 1770 ma) with the alternator disconnected, the problem is not the alternator....

Do you have any accessories added to the vehicle?

With almost a 2 amp draw, no wonder your battery dies....

Unfortunately, the only way to have a chance at finding the circuit that's at fault, it to make sure EVERYTHING IS OFF, attach your ampmeter, and when you read 1.77 amps, start pulling a fuse one at a time until you see the reading drop to an acceptable 30 ma.....

This is a two wire plug. It is on top of the alternator, not on the back. Unplugged from the alternator, key off, there is 12 volts to one of the wires. Did not change the plug, all original. I have no way to check with it plugged up.


sorry about the info I gave you was from the wrong diagram. the alternator plug does go into the rear of the alternator which is opposite of the pulley. the connector is mounted into the rear of the plastic cover on top so it is accessible . this is the location of the regulator under the plastic cover in the rear .

the connector has 4 pins . pin D is the orange wire which has 12 volts to it at all times . pin L which is red is from the PCM this turns the alternator on and also will go to the dash indicator.

It is possible that the PCM is commanding the alternator on when you shutdown the vehicle. I still think that the alternator { regulator} is the problem.

see if you get a voltage at the pin L red wire if not then I would guess its the alternator. if you do get a voltage at pin L with the connector disconnected then the PCM could be bad.

According to my schematics, the orange wire going to the alternator harness should be hot at all times.....

Since you have a 1.77 amp draw(that is 1770 ma) with the alternator disconnected, the problem is not the alternator....

Do you have any accessories added to the vehicle?

With almost a 2 amp draw, no wonder your battery dies....

Unfortunately, the only way to have a chance at finding the circuit that's at fault, it to make sure EVERYTHING IS OFF, attach your ampmeter, and when you read 1.77 amps, start pulling a fuse one at a time until you see the reading drop to an acceptable 30 ma.....

I think I need to clarify that I have a 1.77 amp draw with or without the alt hooked up, however, the battery only goes down if the alt is hooked up. With alt unplugged the battery will maintain charge. Plulled all fuses in both upper and lower fuse blocks (underhood) today. Left I/P fuse (big 60 fuse)described in owners manual as left fuse (Battery) in upper block, dropped draw to 1.2 amps however killed everything in the car. RT I/P #3 fuse described as defogger & Audio system in lower block dropped draw to .57 amps. Its also a big 60 fuse. No other changes. Will leave the RT I/P #3 fuse out over night and see what happens. Thanks so much for your help. I,ll let you know the results.

sorry about the info I gave you was from the wrong diagram. the alternator plug does go into the rear of the alternator which is opposite of the pulley. the connector is mounted into the rear of the plastic cover on top so it is accessible . this is the location of the regulator under the plastic cover in the rear .

the connector has 4 pins . pin D is the orange wire which has 12 volts to it at all times . pin L which is red is from the PCM this turns the alternator on and also will go to the dash indicator.

It is possible that the PCM is commanding the alternator on when you shutdown the vehicle. I still think that the alternator { regulator} is the problem.

see if you get a voltage at the pin L red wire if not then I would guess its the alternator. if you do get a voltage at pin L with the connector disconnected then the PCM could be bad.

You're correct. Pin D has full voltage but Pin L has none but Pin D has about .5 volts with battery ground cable disconnected. Could that just be backfeed? Being old school, I lean toward the alt also but why is the battery drain the same regardless if the alt is hooked up or not and at the same time, the battery will only go down if alt is plugged in. Please look at my reply to Tech11 today and see if you can make any sense out of that. Thanks so much for your help.

You're correct. Pin D has full voltage but Pin L has none but Pin D has about .5 volts with battery ground cable disconnected. Could that just be backfeed? Being old school, I lean toward the alt also but why is the battery drain the same regardless if the alt is hooked up or not and at the same time, the battery will only go down if alt is plugged in. Please look at my reply to Tech11 today and see if you can make any sense out of that. Thanks so much for your help.

pin d is good you have 12volts engine/key off position. pin L has no volts on it so that would mean the alternator is not being turned on which is good this is from the PCM .

the drain then would be from the 12 volts that goes to the regulator which must be defective because it is drawing the current thru the alternator when the key is off.

you can check this by placing an ammeter between the connector pin D and the orange wire to see this current flow which is not supposed to occur with the key off.

auto zone here has a alternator tester . I would have it tested if this is possible in your area.

just a thought did you tighten the bolt too tight?

If you spin that main bolt to tight it will mess all.

Cheers
Stripe

I think I need to clarify that I have a 1.77 amp draw with or without the alt hooked up, however, the battery only goes down if the alt is hooked up. With alt unplugged the battery will maintain charge. Plulled all fuses in both upper and lower fuse blocks (underhood) today. Left I/P fuse (big 60 fuse)described in owners manual as left fuse (Battery) in upper block, dropped draw to 1.2 amps however killed everything in the car. RT I/P #3 fuse described as defogger & Audio system in lower block dropped draw to .57 amps. Its also a big 60 fuse. No other changes. Will leave the RT I/P #3 fuse out over night and see what happens. Thanks so much for your help. I,ll let you know the results.

the alternator disconnected you appear to have too much current drain. some vehicles draw about 200MA. that is .2 amp. your vehicle Is from what I have read is in the 30MA or .03 amp area. still if its below 200MA you should be OK.

now if you have the alternator NOT hooked up and you drawing 1.7AMPS that is a big load. I would guess this is a small light bulb. remove the small fuses after the vehicle has stopped running for a 30 min period. with the doors open the draw could be the security system , lock the vehicle and start the fuse pulling to see where this 1.7amp drain is from.

also you should start by removing the big red alternator wire and check for drain current. not just the small connector to alt.

pin d is good you have 12volts engine/key off position. pin L has no volts on it so that would mean the alternator is not being turned on which is good this is from the PCM .

the drain then would be from the 12 volts that goes to the regulator which must be defective because it is drawing the current thru the alternator when the key is off.

you can check this by placing an ammeter between the connector pin D and the orange wire to see this current flow which is not supposed to occur with the key off.

auto zone here has a alternator tester . I would have it tested if this is possible in your area.

Just checked and there is no current draw between Pin D and the orange wire. I bought the new alt at O'reillys. I had them check my old original alt before I bought the new one and it checked good, however, they can only spin test it to see if it is putting out voltage which it was. The test equipment said the alt was good and they couldn't test it any further, but like you, I was just sure it was the alt shorted so I bought a new one anyway but still have the same problem. Today I found a fuse block that was pulling 1.2 amps. The owners manual says it supplys the audio system and rear defrosters. I've pulled it and left everything else connected to see if the battery still drains down. What I don't understand is why pulling just the plug on the alt will stop battery drain if its not the alt. Do you think Auto Zone could check it any further than O'reillys? Thanks so much.

[quote=stripe;7033661]just a thought did you tighten the bolt too tight?

If you spin that main bolt to tight it will mess all.

Cheers
Stripe[/quote

I assume you're speaking of the main alternator wire and no, I was very careful with it. Its still very tight in the alternator case. I've installed a new alternator and still have the same problem. Thanks so much.

Just checked and there is no current draw between Pin D and the orange wire. I bought the new alt at O'reillys. I had them check my old original alt before I bought the new one and it checked good, however, they can only spin test it to see if it is putting out voltage which it was. The test equipment said the alt was good and they couldn't test it any further, but like you, I was just sure it was the alt shorted so I bought a new one anyway but still have the same problem. Today I found a fuse block that was pulling 1.2 amps. The owners manual says it supplys the audio system and rear defrosters. I've pulled it and left everything else connected to see if the battery still drains down. What I don't understand is why pulling just the plug on the alt will stop battery drain if its not the alt. Do you think Auto Zone could check it any further than O'reillys? Thanks so much.

with your testing I am finding this very hard to understand your battery drain .

some how that alternator connector drains the battery and you found no current drain on that feed . did you disconnect the big alternator wire only and see if the battery does not drain. I would try that with the connector plugged in .

it is possible that the ALT diode has a short. also measure for the large alternator output wire to have current flow key off.

the 2002 monte carlo uses 2 different alternators for the 3.4L or the 3.8L engine. make sure you have the correct one 1703-26 / 1703-16 ac delco .

with your testing I am finding this very hard to understand your battery drain .

some how that alternator connector drains the battery and you found no current drain on that feed . did you disconnect the big alternator wire only and see if the battery does not drain. I would try that with the connector plugged in .

it is possible that the ALT diode has a short. also measure for the large alternator output wire to have current flow key off.

I fully understand what you're saying about my testing. I don't understand myself but I'm using two voltmeters (one borrowed) and getting the same readings. It didn't help to leave the fuse I mentioned unplugged, the battery still drained down. It also drained down with just the big red alt wire disconnected as you asked and there is no draw on the big red wire. Today, however, when I started checking, the 1.77 amp draw I had been seeing went to 8.6. I pulled every fuse inside and outside the car and saw only minimal changes (max. .3 amps). When finished, I decided to disconnect the big red wire from the alt once more. The draw dropped to 1.38 amps. When I reconnected back up, the draw went back to the 1.77 amps I've been seeing all along. I did have a situation while checking fuses. Each time I checked the draw with a fuse pulled, I'd hear a clunk in the trunk area. I raised the trunk lid to hear better and the next check I made the amp draw went crazy (didn't stop climbing) and the PCM (I'm assuming its under the coil block)started chattering. I unplugged everything in the trunk, no more chattering but didn't reduce the 8.6 amp draw. I appreciate the time you've invested in trying to help me solve my problem and will understand if you get tired messing with it but will appreciate anymore suggestions you have. Thanks again.

I fully understand what you're saying about my testing. I don't understand myself but I'm using two voltmeters (one borrowed) and getting the same readings. It didn't help to leave the fuse I mentioned unplugged, the battery still drained down. It also drained down with just the big red alt wire disconnected as you asked and there is no draw on the big red wire. Today, however, when I started checking, the 1.77 amp draw I had been seeing went to 8.6. I pulled every fuse inside and outside the car and saw only minimal changes (max. .3 amps). When finished, I decided to disconnect the big red wire from the alt once more. The draw dropped to 1.38 amps. When I reconnected back up, the draw went back to the 1.77 amps I've been seeing all along. I did have a situation while checking fuses. Each time I checked the draw with a fuse pulled, I'd hear a clunk in the trunk area. I raised the trunk lid to hear better and the next check I made the amp draw went crazy (didn't stop climbing) and the PCM (I'm assuming its under the coil block)started chattering. I unplugged everything in the trunk, no more chattering but didn't reduce the 8.6 amp draw. I appreciate the time you've invested in trying to help me solve my problem and will understand if you get tired messing with it but will appreciate anymore suggestions you have. Thanks again.

One more question! Is it possible for the alt to be shorted and run the battery down but still charge? I just found out the alt I got from o'reillys is rebuilt, not new, like I believed. Thanks.

the 2002 monte carlo uses 2 different alternators for the 3.4L or the 3.8L engine. make sure you have the correct one 1703-26 / 1703-16 ac delco .

O'reillys contend its the correct one. Thank you.

One more question! Is it possible for the alt to be shorted and run the battery down but still charge? I just found out the alt I got from o'reillys is rebuilt, not new, like I believed. Thanks.

yes this happens all the time. so what alternator did they sell you ? rebuilt manufacturer and number ? also what engine do you have ?

now as this post began, I started with new or rebuilt . new is what most buy because reliability is a big problem with these re-built alternators.

in the very old days these alternators were made much larger and could handle the current demands with no problem . replacing the brushes was easy and you could get another 200,ooo mi out of it. well today they are small undersized to reduce weight / copper , and operate at high temps. this then damages the armature and windings. the regulator mounted on the rear gets too hot and failure @ 100,ooo mi is common even if you careful to not drain the battery down or not install powerful aftermarket electrical loads.

let me see what alt you got and lets go from there .

yes this happens all the time. so what alternator did they sell you ? rebuilt manufacturer and number ? also what engine do you have ?

now as this post began, I started with new or rebuilt . new is what most buy because reliability is a big problem with these re-built alternators.

in the very old days these alternators were made much larger and could handle the current demands with no problem . replacing the brushes was easy and you could get another 200,ooo mi out of it. well today they are small undersized to reduce weight / copper , and operate at high temps. this then damages the armature and windings. the regulator mounted on the rear gets too hot and failure @ 100,ooo mi is common even if you careful to not drain the battery down or not install powerful aftermarket electrical loads.

let me see what alt you got and lets go from there .

Okay, the alt was purchased at O'reillys. It is an Ultima 01-1844. Its in a Delphi case which I assume is a rebuilt Delco alt. My gut tells me its the alternator but what shakes me is the fact my old alternator did the exact same thing and it tested good according to O'reillys test stand, however, I think it only tests for output which was and is good on both alternators. Thats why I asked if it could be shorted and still show good output. The car has 113,000 mi. on it. We bought the car new, all accessories are factory, no add ons and everything works fine. The only thing inactive is the On-Star system which we don't subsribe to anymore. My wife has it on her car. This is a Dale Earnhardt Sr. #3 Signature MonteCarlo and I wanted to keep it. I use it for backup for my old truck. Its only driven two or three times a month. I,ve just spoke to O'reillys and they are willing to exchange this alternator for a new one so that will be my next step. Again, I thank you so much for your help and I'll let you know if this corrects the problem. I didn't think they'd be so willing to do this, thats why I had not allready asked. Thanks again.

yes this happens all the time. so what alternator did they sell you ? rebuilt manufacturer and number ? also what engine do you have ?

now as this post began, I started with new or rebuilt . new is what most buy because reliability is a big problem with these re-built alternators.

in the very old days these alternators were made much larger and could handle the current demands with no problem . replacing the brushes was easy and you could get another 200,ooo mi out of it. well today they are small undersized to reduce weight / copper , and operate at high temps. this then damages the armature and windings. the regulator mounted on the rear gets too hot and failure @ 100,ooo mi is common even if you careful to not drain the battery down or not install powerful aftermarket electrical loads.

let me see what alt you got and lets go from there .

Okay, the alt was purchased at O'reillys. It is an Ultima 01-1844. Its in a Delphi case which I assume is a rebuilt Delco alt. My gut tells me its the alternator but what shakes me is the fact my old alternator did the exact same thing and it tested good according to O'reillys test stand, however, I think it only tests for output which was and is good on both alternators. Thats why I asked if it could be shorted and still show good output. The car has 113,000 mi. on it. We bought the car new, all accessories are factory, no add ons and everything works fine. The only thing inactive is the On-Star system which we don't subsribe to anymore. My wife has it on her car. This is a Dale Earnhardt Sr. #3 Signature MonteCarlo and I wanted to keep it. I use it for backup for my old truck. Its only driven two or three times a month. I,ve just spoke to O'reillys and they are willing to exchange this alternator for a new one so that will be my next step. Again, I thank you so much for your help and I'll let you know if this corrects the problem. I didn't think they'd be so willing to do this, thats why I had not allready asked. Thanks again.

the Ultima 01-1844 is for the monte carlo SS with the 3.8L engine. the alternator does have a lifetime warranty. so If you have any problems they will take care of it.

according to what I found they do not replace the diode rectifier assy unless it is tested as being bad. they do replace the bearings however and also test only the windings/stator for defects which is not easy because heat changes these things .

just to get back now to the problem, it is only when the small connector is connected to the alternator , that the battery will drain .

I wish I could understand why the drain on the battery when you measured it is so varied and at times way to high .

If with the alternator hooked up all fuses in , place charger on battery then after a few hours see if the alternator is warm .

the Ultima 01-1844 is for the monte carlo SS with the 3.8L engine. the alternator does have a lifetime warranty. so If you have any problems they will take care of it.

according to what I found they do not replace the diode rectifier assy unless it is tested as being bad. they do replace the bearings however and also test only the windings/stator for defects which is not easy because heat changes these things .

just to get back now to the problem, it is only when the small connector is connected to the alternator , that the battery will drain .

I wish I could understand why the drain on the battery when you measured it is so varied and at times way to high .

If with the alternator hooked up all fuses in , place charger on battery then after a few hours see if the alternator is warm .

I swapped the rebuilt Alternator today for a new one. Installed it at approximately 1:00 pm. Its now 8:30 pm and the battery is dead so I think we can alleviate the Alternator. This is the 3rd alternator,( which of course includes the original) that has had the same identical problem. Yes, its only when the small wire plug to the alternator is left plugged in the battery drains down. If I leave everything else connected, including the big red wire on the alternator, but leave the small wire plugg disconnected, the battery will not drain down. Whatever the problem, it has to do with this small wire plug. You did say the small orange wire on this plug is supposed to carry voltage with ignition off, correct? because it has voltage all the time. Again, thank you.

I swapped the rebuilt Alternator today for a new one. Installed it at approximately 1:00 pm. Its now 8:30 pm and the battery is dead so I think we can alleviate the Alternator. This is the 3rd alternator,( which of course includes the original) that has had the same identical problem. Yes, its only when the small wire plug to the alternator is left plugged in the battery drains down. If I leave everything else connected, including the big red wire on the alternator, but leave the small wire plug disconnected, the battery will not drain down. Whatever the problem, it has to do with this small wire plug. You did say the small orange wire on this plug is supposed to carry voltage with ignition off, correct? because it has voltage all the time. Again, thank you.

yes the orange wire is supposed to be at 12 volts at all times. now with this issue I would guess that the PCM alternator control / charge indicator is somehow causing the problem. see if you can just disconnect that red wire and leave the orange still connected. if it does not drain the battery then it must be with that red wire /pcm control circuit. but I don't know how since it is not shown on any diagram.


when you get this fixed post back . this is a tough / odd one.

I just did a search with all the info you have given about this. It is a common problem that the BCM is defective. this device is responsible for turning on/off devices and if defective is the cause of many mysterious monte carlo battery draining issues in the 2000-2005 model years.

yes the orange wire is supposed to be at 12 volts at all times. now with this issue I would guess that the PCM alternator control / charge indicator is somehow causing the problem. see if you can just disconnect that red wire and leave the orange still connected. if it does not drain the battery then it must be with that red wire /pcm control circuit. but I don't know how since it is not shown on any diagram.


when you get this fixed post back . this is a tough / odd one.

I just did a search with all the info you have given about this. It is a common problem that the BCM is defective. this device is responsible for turning on/off devices and if defective is the cause of many mysterious monte carlo battery draining issues in the 2000-2005 model years.

Sorry to take so long to answer your post but I began to doubt whether or not my battery was holding charge on its own. I've just been giving it quick charges when it goes down and never full charges. I only have a few hours each day through the week to work on this thing. I think maybe I,m going to fast and I,m picking up some of the modules that haven't, as you say, gone to sleep causing the variations in my amp draw readings. I haven't written anything down so I'm having a hard time remembering what I've done and the results. I,m going to start all over, redo everything you've asked, write down all results and relay them to you. Hopefully, then, you,ll be able to make some sense out of the results. It may take a few days for me to get back too you but I will. Again, I want to thank you in every way for being so considerate in helping. Thank you.

don't rush the testing give the battery time to fully charge. write down all high current readings. your looking for current drain and again the rear connector of the alternator appears to cause the battery to run down.

perhaps when the connector is to the alternator , the charge indicator/alt turn on circuit messes up the BCM so that certain equipment does not shut down.

when checking for current drain check with the connector connected then remove the connector.

hopefully someone will have input to help .

don't rush the testing give the battery time to fully charge. write down all high current readings. your looking for current drain and again the rear connector of the alternator appears to cause the battery to run down.

perhaps when the connector is to the alternator , the charge indicator/alt turn on circuit messes up the BCM so that certain equipment does not shut down.

when checking for current drain check with the connector connected then remove the connector.

hopefully someone will have input to help .

Okay, I have the info for you but also have a new problem so lets start with it first. The alternator has quit charging. I,ve had it tested and it checks good. I tried unsuccessfully to disconnect the small red wire from the alternator plug. I didn,t think I damaged it but may have since it is so small and it could be broken where I can't see it, however, with the engine running and everything connected except the alternator plug, I read 5.04 amps at the small red wire pin in the plug. To me, in my old school way of thinking, that might be a signal from the PCM to the alternator regulator dictating what the alternator output should be and if so, that would indicate the wire is not broken and it would be something else. Whats your opinion?

Now for the testing. I have been giving you some erronous information. The battery will go down with the alt disconnected completely. I believe the state of the battery charge was confusing me.
1. With battery fully charged, I have a 1.77 amp draw at the battery.
2. Upper fuse block under hood: Left I/P (Left fuse battery) pulls .52 amps. RT I/P (Right fuse battery) pulls .06 amps.
3. Lower fuse block under hood: RT I/P (Rear Defroster/Radio system) pulls 1.19 amps.
4. Drivers side dash fuse block: CLSTR BCB (Body Control Module Cluster/Ignition) pulls .52 amps.
5. Passenger side dash fuse block: Radio (Radio anplifier) pulls 1.19 amps. PWR Drop (Accomadated Device) pulls .06 amps.
These are the only ones that have draw. I have driven the car with this problem and everything seems to work fine except for the battery drain. The alternator not working has not changed the anp draw. I hope all this makes sense to you. Thanks again.

Okay, I have the info for you but also have a new problem so lets start with it first. The alternator has quit charging. I,ve had it tested and it checks good. I tried unsuccessfully to disconnect the small red wire from the alternator plug. I didn,t think I damaged it but may have since it is so small and it could be broken where I can't see it, however, with the engine running and everything connected except the alternator plug, I read 5.04 amps at the small red wire pin in the plug. To me, in my old school way of thinking, that might be a signal from the PCM to the alternator regulator dictating what the alternator output should be and if so, that would indicate the wire is not broken and it would be something else. Whats your opinion?

Now for the testing. I have been giving you some erronous information. The battery will go down with the alt disconnected completely. I believe the state of the battery charge was confusing me.
1. With battery fully charged, I have a 1.77 amp draw at the battery.
2. Upper fuse block under hood: Left I/P (Left fuse battery) pulls .52 amps. RT I/P (Right fuse battery) pulls .06 amps.
3. Lower fuse block under hood: RT I/P (Rear Defroster/Radio system) pulls 1.19 amps.
4. Drivers side dash fuse block: CLSTR BCB (Body Control Module Cluster/Ignition) pulls .52 amps.
5. Passenger side dash fuse block: Radio (Radio anplifier) pulls 1.19 amps. PWR Drop (Accomadated Device) pulls .06 amps.
These are the only ones that have draw. I have driven the car with this problem and everything seems to work fine except for the battery drain. The alternator not working has not changed the anp draw. I hope all this makes sense to you. Thanks again.

lets go thru this one issue at a time . what is the voltage at the /across the battery with the engine running and everything connected including the connector at the rear of the alternator ?

orange wire 12 volts and the red wire should have some voltage on it to turn on the alternator my guess is 5 volts.

[quote=j cAT;7034459]lets go thru this one issue at a time . what is the voltage at the /across the battery with the engine running and everything connected including the connector at the rear of the alternator ?

orange wire 12 volts and the red wire should have some voltage on it to turn on the alternator my guess is 5 volts.[/quote

Engine running & everything connected: 11.61 volts at battery (Lights are on)

Engine dead: 12.00 volts at battery. 12.00 volts at orange wire on alt plug. o volts at red wire on alt plug.

Engine running & alt plug disconnected: 11.61 volts at orange wire on alt plug. 5.04 volts at red wire on alt plug.

Update: I found the problem with the alternator. It was the connector plug. Somehow it just wasn't making connection. I've narrowed the battery drain down to the radio fuse. Fuse pulled, theres no drain. Radio and disc seems to work fine. Not sure what next step should be. Do you know if there is a particular module that might create this problem? Thank you.

so the connector plug was the reason the alternator was not charging. this does occur in the rust belt with the conn pins getting corroded.

so now the battery drain is because the radio equipment is not shutting down . this is the BCM issue I stated earlier with other owners that had this mysterious drain.

the BCM is a secret device that only the GM dealer can program , that is at a greater expense then what would be if a repair shop could handle it.

could be the audio amp portion of the radio system is not being turned off.

post back any further info with this issue .

A battery drain going on 3 pages, is the result of misinformation and making mistakes in testing.....not blaming you, but it illustrates why electrical problems can be costly in a shop.....if you get a bad reading that sends you in the wrong direction, it's time consuming.....

Tracing circuits can be a problem......but thankfully, you have narrowed it down to the radio fuse.....the next move, is to find EVERYTHING that radio fuse feeds.....a wiring diagram is needed......sometimes your owner's manual will list the circuits of each fuse.....thus you can disconnect circuits that are fed by that fuse to find which circuit is causing the draw....

so the connector plug was the reason the alternator was not charging. this does occur in the rust belt with the conn pins getting corroded.

so now the battery drain is because the radio equipment is not shutting down . this is the BCM issue I stated earlier with other owners that had this mysterious drain.

the BCM is a secret device that only the GM dealer can program , that is at a greater expense then what would be if a repair shop could handle it.

could be the audio amp portion of the radio system is not being turned off.

post back any further info with this issue .

Since finding the drain problem was at the radio fuse, I've simply pulled the fuse and there's no problem except I have no radio. The radio functions properly when the fuse is in so I believe you are correct in diagnosing it as the BCM Module and if what you say is true, and I believe it is, the next step is to take it to a dealership for repair. I haven't found a diaghram that shows me what all this fuse powers up but nothing else seems to be effected when the fuse is pulled so for now, I guess I'll do without the radio. I'm afraid a dealership would be very expensive for a repair since it would probably require a new module and recalibration. Any ideas you have would be welcomed. Thank you.

Since finding the drain problem was at the radio fuse, I've simply pulled the fuse and there's no problem except I have no radio. The radio functions properly when the fuse is in so I believe you are correct in diagnosing it as the BCM Module and if what you say is true, and I believe it is, the next step is to take it to a dealership for repair. I haven't found a diaghram that shows me what all this fuse powers up but nothing else seems to be effected when the fuse is pulled so for now, I guess I'll do without the radio. I'm afraid a dealership would be very expensive for a repair since it would probably require a new module and recalibration. Any ideas you have would be welcomed. Thank you.

I understand . what I would do is find a fuse that has 12 volts to it only when the ignition is on . then using a jumper wire with a 10 amp fuse ,,, feed the radio power input side of the fuse socket for the radio. do not put a fuse into the radio fuse socket. this should work and not effect anything. key off the radio will be off ..also the radio is low current so it will not effect any other power systems.

attach the jumper fuse power input to the power feed side of the fuse socket that has 12volts to it with the key on. they have this at most auto stores.

BCM can be expensive.. and will require programing

j cAT, I don't think this has anything to do with the BCM.....I think the radio fuse, is fed by a 60 amp IP fuse, which is bussed to the battery.....

So if that radio fuse circuit breaks off to more circuits, like an amplifier, that has to be checked out.....

I do like your Idea of using an ignition powered circuit ....that will eliminate the draw with the key off.....the circuit has to be able to handle radio current plus what it is already feeding(or you tap into a large current circuit and protect it with a 15 a fuse).....

j cAT, I don't think this has anything to do with the BCM.....I think the radio fuse, is fed by a 60 amp IP fuse, which is bussed to the battery.....

So if that radio fuse circuit breaks off to more circuits, like an amplifier, that has to be checked out.....

I do like your Idea of using an ignition powered circuit ....that will eliminate the draw with the key off.....the circuit has to be able to handle radio current plus what it is already feeding(or you tap into a large current circuit and protect it with a 15 a fuse).....

the radio fuse is only 10 AMPS. taking power from the ignition powered 12 volts would not effect anything. 10 amps is very low. since this 10 amp fuse solved his drain problem I doubt it feeds some other audio power amp that would have to use more than 10 amps.

the BCM has been reported by others that this was the cause of the mysterious drain. I guess when the key is turned off the radio stays on until the door is opened. then the radio should shut down .

the switched ignition feed being tapped is of a large current capacity. power windows / ac system / etc....

j cAT, I don't think this has anything to do with the BCM.....I think the radio fuse, is fed by a 60 amp IP fuse, which is bussed to the battery.....

So if that radio fuse circuit breaks off to more circuits, like an amplifier, that has to be checked out.....

I do like your Idea of using an ignition powered circuit ....that will eliminate the draw with the key off.....the circuit has to be able to handle radio current plus what it is already feeding(or you tap into a large current circuit and protect it with a 15 a fuse).....

You are correct about the 60 amp I/P fuse. My problem is I don't find a ingnition powered circuit on the fuse block where the radio fuse is located, passenger side of the vehicle. They're all powered up with ignition off. As I've stated before, the radio works fine, sounds good, turns on/off with the radio power button, continues to play when vehicle is turned off and turns off once the door is opened. The amplier is located in the trunk. I have unplugged it and that does not effect the power drain. At present, I'm uncertain that it is the radio and I'm hesitant to start clipping wires in an effort to get power to the radio, however, I can't see that removing the radio fuse has effected anything else in the vehicle. Would you know if there is any type plug that adapts to the fuse holder which would allow me to provide power via a toggle switch? Thank you so much for your time.

I understand . what I would do is find a fuse that has 12 volts to it only when the ignition is on . then using a jumper wire with a 10 amp fuse ,,, feed the radio power input side of the fuse socket for the radio. do not put a fuse into the radio fuse socket. this should work and not effect anything. key off the radio will be off ..also the radio is low current so it will not effect any other power systems.

attach the jumper fuse power input to the power feed side of the fuse socket that has 12volts to it with the key on. they have this at most auto stores.

BCM can be expensive.. and will require programing

I could not find what you call a jumper fuse, or, I don't know what I'm looking for. Would you please read my reply to Tech11 concerning you guys discussion. I didn' find a fuse that wasn't powered up with ignition off. Thank you guys.

I could not find what you call a jumper fuse, or, I don't know what I'm looking for. Would you please read my reply to Tech11 concerning you guys discussion. I didn' find a fuse that wasn't powered up with ignition off. Thank you guys.

this is what / like what fuse jumper I was talking about. all you need to do is find a power feed from the ignition on only as a souce of power then run a fused side wire to the input of the radio side of the removed 10 amp fuse . take the 10 amp radio fuse and install into the fuse holder you purchased .

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_in-line-fuse-holder-for-atc-fuses-bussmann_5171326-p?searchTerm=fuse+