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Torquing bolts as 25 degrees.


happydog500
12-10-2012, 08:38 PM
I just found out that when I got my motor swapped, I paid the guy to put in all new gaskets. I just found out he just put the motor in without doing anything. I have a leaky LIM (had to update my signature on the site).
If I decide to fix it, we have to do it in the cold, about 25 degrees.

I was wondering about torquing the bolts when it's so cold. What about doing it in the cold, then what happens in the summer? I asked locally and my friend told me it doesn't matter so much the torque, but that it's even.

If I torque a bolt 132 inch pounds in 25*, what will the torque be when the temp goes up to 90 in the summer? Id think it would go up a lot tighter. Is this anything to worry about?

Chris.

MagicRat
12-10-2012, 11:15 PM
The engine heats up way beyond 90 deg, when it runs, without trouble. So don't worry about it.
The metal of the bolt heats up and expands along with the block, so the differential is somewhat modest.

Even steel bolts holding an aluminum block do not have trouble, and the aluminum expands twice as far as the steel bolts, when heated. The allowance is due to the nature of bolts. A bolt is slightly springy and can stretch slightly. The longer the bolt, the more stretching they can tolerate before damage. This stretchiness absorbs the differential in thermal expansion.

happydog500
12-13-2012, 01:41 AM
Just thought of another concern. What about the sealer stuff you put on around the manifold? How will it set up in such cold weather?

enslow
12-13-2012, 10:58 PM
I imagine it will just take longer to set up. I assume you are using some sort of thread chaser to clean the threads of the removed bolts, and will use thread locker on the bolts as you install them.

Tech II
12-14-2012, 11:16 AM
There is leakage, and there is seepage.......chances are it is just seepage, that has captured dust/dirt over time.....

If that's the case, should be no problem waiting for warmer weather in the spring......chances are if you washed it down with Brake Klean, and checked it weekly, you would see nothing.....

When you do the lower intake, the only RTV used is just a dab at the four corners.....nothing is used on the upper, just the gasket....

More likely the valve covers would be a leaking problem....

happydog500
12-14-2012, 04:13 PM
Seems like leak is pretty bad. I would describe the fluid "gushing out".
I have other problems that I want to fix (poor acceleration with engine over revving).
I don't want to buy another transmission (3rd one) without making sure the acceleration problem is no caused by the intake leak.
Here is a photo;

http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af78/happydog500/intake-1.jpg

Thank you,
Chris.

Tech II
12-14-2012, 05:16 PM
That looks like coolant from the throttle body gasket......not a tough job.....

happydog500
12-14-2012, 06:58 PM
Here is a closer look;

http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af78/happydog500/IntakeLeak.jpg

Thank you,
Chris.

Tech II
12-14-2012, 07:34 PM
The original gasket was orange, the replacement is black....

remove the throttle and cruise cables from bracket.....Just drain about a quart of coolant from the upper radiator hose at the thermostat housing.....three nuts and off it comes.......now would be a good time to clean the throttle plate and bore, and IAC pintle and passageway....

happydog500
12-17-2012, 12:47 AM
That looks like coolant from the throttle body gasket......not a tough job.....
I don't remember inside the TB supposed to be full of fluid. If stuff is coming out of the throttle body gasket, where it it coming from to get inside to be able to come out?

Chris.

imidazol97
12-17-2012, 11:27 AM
I don't remember inside the TB supposed to be full of fluid. If stuff is coming out of the throttle body gasket, where it it coming from to get inside to be able to come out?

The coolant comes up through the intake manifold metal portion, it has o-ring seals around the two passages that go up into the plastic ABS upper intake manifold next to the EGR passage through same, and the coolant goes into the throttle body again through o-rings as seals and warms the throttle body for better performance in cool/cold weather.

The OP is suggesting taking off your throttle body and seeing if there is your coolant leak. Gasket is cheap, removal is easy, and you might fix it right there. But if you can't tell that the edge of the lower intake gasket is a replacement and the upper intake manifold doesn't have a date stamp in those circular markers that says it's newer than the age of the engine, I'd suggest replacing it all and being safe.

The coolant had ground almond shells or some organic material put in as part of a recall for tightening the throttle body bolts to make up for a gasket that was too thin. On my 03 the throttle body gasket seeped into the intake air and put a little coolant into the oil that I caught with an analysis.

The goop in your picture looks like someone put in extra sealer, so this problem may have been going on a while.

If you want to wait for warmer weather for the big replacement, one option is to replace the throttle body gasket and clean the throttle body while it's off. Replace oil and drive a couple thousand on the oil and send a sample to a lab to look for sodium and potassium in the oil as a marker for coolant leaking into the engine. If no coolant, you can put off the main gaskets and plenum, but don't trust the ones there if they're original. Be observant of coolant level.

happydog500
12-17-2012, 04:39 PM
The coolant comes up through the intake manifold metal portion, it has o-ring seals around the two passages that go up into the plastic ABS upper intake manifold next to the EGR passage through same, and the coolant goes into the throttle body again through o-rings as seals and warms the throttle body for better performance in cool/cold weather.

The OP is suggesting taking off your throttle body and seeing if there is your coolant leak. Gasket is cheap, removal is easy, and you might fix it right there. But if you can't tell that the edge of the lower intake gasket is a replacement and the upper intake manifold doesn't have a date stamp in those circular markers that says it's newer than the age of the engine, I'd suggest replacing it all and being safe.

The coolant had ground almond shells or some organic material put in as part of a recall for tightening the throttle body bolts to make up for a gasket that was too thin. On my 03 the throttle body gasket seeped into the intake air and put a little coolant into the oil that I caught with an analysis.

The goop in your picture looks like someone put in extra sealer, so this problem may have been going on a while.

If you want to wait for warmer weather for the big replacement, one option is to replace the throttle body gasket and clean the throttle body while it's off. Replace oil and drive a couple thousand on the oil and send a sample to a lab to look for sodium and potassium in the oil as a marker for coolant leaking into the engine. If no coolant, you can put off the main gaskets and plenum, but don't trust the ones there if they're original. Be observant of coolant level.

I had the new plenum put on and the smaller stove pipe when I replaced the motor and (supposedly) had all new gaskets put on. The new plenum is on, but I don't know about if he did the lower gasket now.

The goop when smelled smells like clumped antifreeze.

I will look at the throttle body.

Thank you,
Chris.

Jrs3800
12-19-2012, 07:29 PM
There is also a coolant passage cover under the Throttle Body, These can spring a leak... so this would be another possibility for you to look at..

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