'77 Continental Sedan - Coughs back through the carb/no start?

Hello all,

Just purchased a 77' Continental sedan, less than a hundred thousand miles, pretty decent shape. This car has been a royal pain in the keister for many years, and now I've finally purchased it in hopes of fixing it's engine woe.

2004: I was working for a shop and installed a salvage motor in this car. I didn't do anything but literally bolt it into the car, another mechanic was supposed to do the finish work, apparently he didn't. Shop went belly up. Car was towed away, and hasn't run since.

Purchased car a few days ago, acted like it was firing on an open intake valve. Compression test revealed 0 compression on odd bank. Removed intake to find all 16 hydraulic lifters "jammed" and not allowing the intake valves to close. Installed new lifters, reconditioned pushrods, properly torqued rocker arms... Compression is back, but still coughs back through the carb when cranked. Re-timed engine, still coughs. New plugs, wires, cap, rotor, still coughs. Tried turning distributor one notch at a time and trying each one, all to no avail. Still the same result.... cough back through the carb.

Would I be wasting effort to take off the front cover and check out the timing chain? That's about the only other thing I can think of to go wrong! Carb, distributor, and DuraSpark module are all from my [then] running/driving 77 Town Car (RIP: Death of Rust vs. Landau top.) Vac lines seem ok and all correctly routed.

Any opinions?

Bill S.

Woo hoo, love those old Lincolns. I have a '77 Mark V, bought 18 years ago. I drove it regularly for 11 years and its absolutely the most reliable car I've ever owned.

Spitting back through the carb indicates late valve timing or bent/burned intake valves.
Have you actually done a compression test and found the readings?

I would say before looking at the valve timing, you do an accurate compression test of all cylinders, at wide open throttle. Also, find TDC on #1 cylinder and time the distributor.

Woo hoo, love those old Lincolns. I have a '77 Mark V, bought 18 years ago. I drove it regularly for 11 years and its absolutely the most reliable car I've ever owned.

Spitting back through the carb indicates late valve timing or bent/burned intake valves.
Have you actually done a compression test and found the readings?

I would say before looking at the valve timing, you do an accurate compression test of all cylinders, at wide open throttle. Also, find TDC on #1 cylinder and time the distributor.

I am aware of what it indicates ;) Compression specifications show 8:1 (117 nominal), This engine reads an average of 110 per cyl, +/- 2.

Compressed air test led us to notice the intake valves where not closing completely. Removal of the rocker arms and intake showed that the hydraulic lifters where damaged from sitting without use. These where replaced this morning, and reconditioned pushrods where installed. Fulcrums where crusted with carbon, these where cleaned before installation. Once the engine was reassembled, compression was within specification. Base timed engine at 16deg BTDC as per the emissions label and Ford service manual, and engine still acts as if valve timing is off. Going to pull the timing cover off in the morning I suppose. I can't think of anything else that might go wrong......

Woo hoo, love those old Lincolns. I have a '77 Mark V, bought 18 years ago. I drove it regularly for 11 years and its absolutely the most reliable car I've ever owned.

I didn't think to reply to that part of the post for some reason... My great grandmother bought a 1974 Mark IV new in Springfield, MO. I am not totally sure it's ever been out of Missouri more than one trip to Florida. Still looks showroom perfect with the exception of a tattered hood liner due to a wind gust, and lightly cracked door pulls. 54k orig. miles, and I love the car. I pull it out and drive it to town every now and again, so that I don't have any crazy issues with it like I"m having with this other Lincoln. :P

Ok y'all, here's the update:

Due to wet weather, we didn't mess with the old Conti for a few days. Then, we managed (with about nine people) to get her pushed up the hill into the shop. Last week we had installed new lifters and recon'd pushrods. Put a hot battery in the car once it was inside, and cranked it over. Still spit back through the carburetor. Checked the timing, and finally put a timing chain and cog set on due to what seemed to be a bit too much slack. Reset the base timing correctly, and tried again. Still, firing back through the carb.

The pissoff of all pissoffs happened as the car was getting oil pressure. As we started to see oil coming out of the pushrods while cranking, we started to notice the engine was "cranking easier." Pretty soon, we had full oil pressure, and no compression. Checked the pushrods, they're 8.55", as per the specs listed on OD5. Backed off the rocker bolts until compression came back and tried cranking. Still, same symptom... seems like it's firing back on an open intake. WHAT NOW??? UGH!

*Note* We have installed a third distributor now, and yet another carb off of a running 460 in my 76 Ford F-250. Carb numbers where exactly the same.

Buddies are throwing out random ideas... pushrods too long? Wrong cam? Some freak model of engine with a different firing order and we just need to rearrange that and run the engine while tightening down rocker bolts to adjust lifters? Cracked head(s)? We are so lost on this project, you have no idea. This is what I get for going to college for automotive in the computer age. Everything we talked about was dual overhead cam and aluminum, and generally uses a computer interface to tell us it's broken. :loser:

All help is appreciated.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=563559440336210&set=pb.100000464778062.-2207520000.1355144469&type=3&theater

____________

Bill S.

77' Continental
76' F250 Utility
90' E350 XL Diesel "Vuck" Dually
93' Cadillac Allante'
88' Merkur Scorpio
86' C30 3+3 Dually
28' Benz SSK Replica (Put a 351W in a Pinto and you'll get the idea.)
Amongst many other idiot purchases.

UPDATE: 12/12 - 12/13

Ok, so apparently I'm just a moronic ass when it comes to old iron. I was going off of a compression chart provided by someone else off the forum, dictating that 8:1 compression ratio should be 100 psi or thereabouts. Secondly, I was using a compression gauge that was broken. A friend brought over his brand new Mac tools comp gauge and it shows a difference of nearly 50PSI! The car is running the following on the listed cylinders.

1. 60
2. 55
3. 45
4. 55
5. 65
6. 55
7. 60
8. 60

If I had to guess from the readings he's getting, and he seems to be of the same opinion, the cylinders need to be soaked with oil for a while to see if we can't get the rings back to life.... and cylinder 3 is apparently an intake valve issue. He's recommending taking a drill to the valve from the top, as I had done before. I think the vast majority of the reason my intake valve cleanup didn't work the last time was because I was using an ancient Black and Decker drill I've had for years and it was getting hot and losing strength, smoking, etc. Probably would have done a better job with a new drill that wasn't gimpy.

Will try to keep the forum posted on my idiot efforts in the mean time.

Bill

PS: For humor purposes, I thought the forum would like to know that the car has been officially named by one of my customers...
"Marge the Large Barge"

Ok Y'all... Problem Found!!

"Marge the Large Barge" as we are now calling this car, has been through a huge amount of re-diagnosis. Finally, decided after piddling around with the valves and timing that there was a crack in a head. Cranked it and pulled the plugwires off individually to figure out which one was firing back. Cylinder 3 seemed to be the worst. Spent a half hour taking a head off, and voila, a hole in the head at cylinder #3. Looks like someone broke off a spark plug in the engine, drilled it out, and then started it without finding a way to clean the debris out of the cylinder, thus welding it to the top of the piston and punching a hole through the head. There is a stalagmite on the cylinder and a hole it's size and shape in the head, pushing a good sized chunk of the iron up into the intake bore of the head. Transplanting with another engine next week.

Thank you for all the updates. This is very interesting. :)

Thank you for all the updates. This is very interesting. :)

Thanks, MagicRat! :) I have had quite the time getting this situation figured out. At times this forum has been a lot of help to me, and others it seems I provide a bit of entertainment. My posts make me sound like a complete jackass sometimes because of two reasons:

1. I'm normally extremely frustrated with the project, and very sleep deprived, so I forget to add some things in and sometimes sound like quite the rambling idiot. For proof, check out my LeBaron posting. ;) I re-read that thing and went... was I high?

2. I have gone to college for automotive mechanics, but that was in 2008-2010. Right now they're really just brushing over the "old stuff" (anything prior to 87) really quickly and then delving right into aluminum dual overhead cam deallywhoppers. We (at least not my class) didn't get the education on old iron and big blocks, or v-8's in general for that matter, that we should have. So, when it comes to stuff newer than about 68 yet older than about 84, I tend to start getting on here and going.... what's up doc?

Anyways, thanks for the reply. Even when I don't get answers from other posters, sometimes when I figure it out, it's nice to share the info so it's there for someone's benefit later.