Fate of XPs

Could someone confirm if the following is correct:

XP1 Crashed and caught on fire in Namibia during high-speed testing.
XP2 Blue. Crash tested at MIRA with best-ever results.
XP3 Silver.
XP4 Blue. Toured Asia. Now in Fremont, CA
XP5 Now green. Record holder at 243mph. At the factory

Anyone know what happened to XP3?

The story I have heard associated with XP3 was that it was crashed - possibly that it was the car that BMW boss Bernd Piechstrieder wrecked. I don't know if it was ever repaired or where the wreckage may have ended up. If it wasn't destroyed in an accident, then I don't really know.

The rest of what you posted all seems as accurate based on the info I have as well.

>8^)
ER

this was Bernd Piechstrieder's car so i have strong reason to believe this was xp3...also look at the attached image, notice you can just make out holes for the foglights that were a detail on all cars up to xp3 (xp1, xp2, xp3, clinic car) but were not made into the production cars....



http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?s=&postid=944476

how long did it take 2 fix + cost?

plus xp5 is now green, record was 240.14mph or 391 km/h set in Nardo test track. Normal f1 does 231 mph without 7500 rpm meter disabled.

Originally posted by McLaren Mike
how long did it take 2 fix + cost?


we believe it was totalled

Cost is a weird thing with McLarens. There's so many rumours swirling about that it's hard to know who to believe. I have heard from an owner that the servicing can cost 14,000 GBP, and then I have heard it quoted (from Jake Ulrich--racer and owner/ex-owner--anyone know if he still has one?) that his servicing cost 140,000 GBP one summer because they had to do a complete rebuild. Did someone mistakenly add another zero? Was there a complete rebuild or repair of fire damage that makes justifies the higher number? I have also heard of 20,000 GBP for a repaint, which does not sound too bad, and then others have said that 07 was repainted for 230,000 GBP. I get the feeling that the conversion to Le Mans is probably what cost 230k, not the paintjob. Larry Ellison's car is supposed to have been repaired for a large sum as well.

As for rebuilding a crashed McLaren, their high value means that people go to great lengths to repair cars that are extensively damaged. But some damage is simply beyond repair. I doubt if Chris Dawes' car was repaired. This one seems repairable to me, though. Body and glass panels are replacable, as long as the tub is in good condition. Engines are rebuildable too. Fire damage, or extensive crash damage, etc. would make it a borderline case, although if someone was willing to pay for the spare chassis at McLaren, I think even such a catastrophe could be recovered from.

Originally posted by tvrfreak
Cost is a weird thing with McLarens. There's so many rumours swirling about that it's hard to know who to believe. I have heard from an owner that the servicing can cost 14,000 GBP, and then I have heard it quoted (from Jake Ulrich--racer and owner/ex-owner--anyone know if he still has one?) that his servicing cost 140,000 GBP one summer because they had to do a complete rebuild. Did someone mistakenly add another zero? Was there a complete rebuild or repair of fire damage that makes justifies the higher number? I have also heard of 20,000 GBP for a repaint, which does not sound too bad, and then others have said that 07 was repainted for 230,000 GBP. I get the feeling that the conversion to Le Mans is probably what cost 230k, not the paintjob. Larry Ellison's car is supposed to have been repaired for a large sum as well.

As for rebuilding a crashed McLaren, their high value means that people go to great lengths to repair cars that are extensively damaged. But some damage is simply beyond repair. I doubt if Chris Dawes' car was repaired. This one seems repairable to me, though. Body and glass panels are replacable, as long as the tub is in good condition. Engines are rebuildable too. Fire damage, or extensive crash damage, etc. would make it a borderline case, although if someone was willing to pay for the spare chassis at McLaren, I think even such a catastrophe could be recovered from.


2 things:

1. i don't think larry ellison's car was crashed, are you thinking of Gerd Petrics previous car that was crashed by Elon MusK?

2. Chris Dawes wasn't driving his own car at the time of the crash, i heard that it was getting serviced and he had borrowed another car (from where i don't know). i have also heard that his car (chassis# 071) is in the hands of the uk governement in relation to his drug trafficing charges, these rumors may not be true tho, and since the car has never been see anywhere since then, it seems believable.


BTW: does anyone have a link to the news site that had the article on the crash?> i seem to have lost it?

Chris Dawes article: http://sanfrancisco.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/stories/1999/04/05/story7.html

I am told that he was driving his own car, and that it was his boat that was seized by customs.

Larry Ellison's car was definitely crashed. It's not publicised, but it is common knowledge around here. It was shipped to Germany for repair, and then brought back to the US. I know the owner of the towing company that towed it (they wrapped the entire car in bubble wrap before shipping it). The crash happened on Skyline Blvd. in Woodside.

Elon Musk's car was also crashed (it spun off Sand Hill Road in Palo Alto). It was shipped to England for repairs, supposedly. Don't know anything more about that.

Originally posted by tvrfreak
Chris Dawes article: http://sanfrancisco.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/stories/1999/04/05/story7.html

I am told that he was driving his own car, and that it was his boat that was seized by customs.

Larry Ellison's car was definitely crashed. It's not publicised, but it is common knowledge around here. It was shipped to Germany for repair, and then brought back to the US. I know the owner of the towing company that towed it (they wrapped the entire car in bubble wrap before shipping it). The crash happened on Skyline Blvd. in Woodside.

Elon Musk's car was also crashed (it spun off Sand Hill Road in Palo Alto). It was shipped to England for repairs, supposedly. Don't know anything more about that.

thanks for the link. i didn't know about larry ellison crahsing his. thanks for the info. also, whay was ellisons shipped to germany, why not england?

i don't really know, but possibly the damage was engine related...maybe it was worked on by bmw?

mclaren has a service centre in germany (it's probably at bmw hq), or maybe they had the materials on hand or had a time slot available sooner?

i just found this, http://www.thisisessex.co.uk/essex/archive/1999/03/22/NEWS14ZM.html

his original car was historic orange, so either he bought another one or he was borrowing it like the rumors say

sounds like the crash was horrible:

A COMPUTER millionaire, who was facing trial on a drugs charge, and two
other people were killed instantly yesterday when the £640,000 McLaren
F1 sports car in which they were travelling crashed and exploded in
flames.

Christopher Dawes, 39, was chairman of the Micromuse computer company.
The other people in the McLaren - the fastest road car available,
capable of up to 212mph - were a 37-year-old man and a woman of 35. The
crash happened after a heavy downpour.

Flames from the burning wreckage swept across the A120 at Great Dunmow,
Essex, where Mr Dawes - who was due to appear in court later this year -
had a home. A series of explosions prevented would-be rescuers from
reaching the occupants.

One officer said: "It was a scene of absolute carnage when the emergency
services arrived. Everybody here is very badly shaken. The car left the
road and hit a building."

Susan Mulford, 24, arrived at the scene after hearing the crash and
called the emergency services. She said: "We saw this great cloud of
black smoke and then flames right across the road. It was fortunate that
no other cars were following. No one could get anywhere near it; it was
just smoke and flames. Then there were two or three explosions as if the
petrol tank went up."

The burgundy car is believed to be still registered to McLaren, the
company that runs the Formula One racing team. It built 100 of the cars
in which the driver sits in the middle between the two passengers.

The A120 was closed for three hours leading to long queues in traffic
travelling to nearby Stansted Airport. Local residents said the rising
bend on which the car crashed was an accident blackspot. One resident,
Matthew McGinn, said: "Three people were killed in an accident very
close to this one and yet the police appear to do nothing."

Mr Dawes, who was born in Australia, made a fortune estimated at around
£100 million from Micromuse. He had become fascinated by computer games
as an amusement arcade mechanic in Adelaide.

He took a degree in electronics engineering and came to London in 1987.
Two years later he set up Micromuse from the attic of a terrace house in
Fulham with the aid of a small loan from the Greater London Enterprise
Board. It now has its headquarters in California with offices in London,
New York and Sydney.

Last October, Mr Dawes resigned as chief executive and president and
sold the company - which by now was designing computer software for a
series of major telecommunication giants, including BT - cashing in £24
million of shares.

Although he remained as a director and chairman of Micromuse, he began
to diversify, buying a number of hotels on the Channel island of
Alderney, where he was a well-known figure. Mr Dawes, who also had homes
in London, Amsterdam and San Francisco, recently bought the £2 million
Merks Hall at Great Dunmow which, despite having all the hallmarks of a
classic Georgian mansion, was built in 1983. It has an indoor swimming
pool and built-in stereo system and has been described as the ultimate
home for Essex Man made good.

Mr Dawes, who is estranged from his English wife Angela and their two
daughters, was arrested on Boxing Day last year after a raid netted
Alderney's first crack cocaine seizure. He was allegedly found in
possession of a small amount of the drug. His private helicopter and £3
million private jet were impounded and searched for drugs. He was later
released on "open remand" - the equivalent to being held on bail - and
was due to appear in court charged with possession of a Class A drug.



--taken from another site

Originally posted by mini magic
this was Bernd Piechstrieder's car so i have strong reason to believe this was xp3...also look at the attached image, notice you can just make out holes for the foglights that were a detail on all cars up to xp3 (xp1, xp2, xp3, clinic car) but were not made into the production cars....



http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?s=&postid=944476

thats not the XP3. the XP3 is locked safe and sound at McLaren Cars Ltd. headquarters. it never crashed...at least i dont think it had a major one....:frown:

Originally posted by Stratoraptor
thats not the XP3. the XP3 is locked safe and sound at McLaren Cars Ltd. headquarters. it never crashed...at least i dont think it had a major one....:frown:

Where do you get this info?? :confused:

I'm fairly certain that XP3 was destroyed in the accident with the BMW Chairman.

The only one of the XP road cars I'm aware of that is still in the possession of the factory is XP5 - the dark green car that was used for marketing, promotions, and test drives/rides for prospective customers.

Do you have more info on your claims about XP3, or were you simply confused?

>8^)
ER

On the other thread. GM sais XP3 is the fastest F1 around, because of older and stronger engine. So it might still be in existance, and in possession of the woking boys

Originally posted by Peloton25


Where do you get this info?? :confused:

I'm fairly certain that XP3 was destroyed in the accident with the BMW Chairman.

The only one of the XP road cars I'm aware of that is still in the possession of the factory is XP5 - the dark green car that was used for marketing, promotions, and test drives/rides for prospective customers.

Do you have more info on your claims about XP3, or were you simply confused?

>8^)
ER

not confused, i have never seen an article or heard of any of the XP models being sold or crashed (except for the XP1 and XP2). but if im wrong, please correct me on this proposed sale of an XP model with more info. to my knowledge, there is no recorded sale of any XP model...except for the XP4, im not too sure on that chassis...maybe u can enlighten me on that one too.

VIN: SA9AB5ACXP1048XP4
Owner: Larry Blair (may have sold this car)
ICI: JK Technologies
Approved for S or D: 9/14/2000

Here's the ever famous photos of XP4 in front of a house (apparently not Blair's home) in Fremont, CA.

http://a6.cpimg.com/image/F8/EF/6911736-e5a4-028001E0-.jpg
http://a8.cpimg.com/image/FA/EF/6911738-ce96-028001E0-.jpg
http://a1.cpimg.com/image/FD/EF/6911741-2f73-028001E0-.jpg
http://a3.cpimg.com/image/FF/EF/6911743-c639-028001E0-.jpg
http://a7.cpimg.com/image/03/EF/6911747-b114-028001E0-.jpg
http://a0.cpimg.com/image/06/EF/6911750-055b-028001E0-.jpg
http://a4.cpimg.com/image/0A/EF/6911754-b97c-028001E0-.jpg

As far as XP3 - the only info I'm sure of is that was the car that was "destroyed by Bernd Piechstrieder" - if it was ever repaired, I wouldn't know, but I don't believe the car exists any longer. I'm fairly certain that XP4 and XP5 are the only surviving F1 road car prototypes.

I'll try to find more info - I know the story that sticks in my head is buried in one of my old car magazines. It wasn't a fairly big story when the accident happened, but I do recall Road&Track or some other magazine doing a side bar on it. I'll go looking when I have some time.

Edit: Here's a small piece of information in two seperate articles that can at least back up the claim that the BMW Chairman rolled an F1.

http://www.cleavemotorsalvage.com/mkt3.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/the_company_file/273538.stm

And a seperate webpage which confirms the car was destroyed (needs translation if you can't read French):

http://ibelgique.ifrance.com/bmwcars/exclusif399.htm

Now I know that neither article makes a direct association to XP3 in regards to the accident, but I do know that XP3 was the F1 McLaren Cars provided to BMW engineers for the majority of their engine development testing once XP1 was lost. That certainly would give the Chairman of BMW access to that particular vehicle. The car in the photo could of course be any silver F1 though.

There was another short blurb in a third article that mentions the car was "written off with his mother-in-law in the passenger seat..." That probably didn't go over too well with her... :D

The mystery continues... ;)

>8^)
ER

u mean thats the XP4??? :eek:

i have seen the car before, but never from the angle that read "XP4." all i knew was that the XP4 was an electric blue color....

not to be a prick, but the XPLM is also a survivng prototype F1. i think that the 56XPGT is too. i know that there is a F1 GT in McLaren Cars Ltd. headquarters, but im not sure that its the 56XPGT.

I know you weren't being a prick - and its funny you mention that because I almost included those in my post...

I know they are both also surviving prototypes, but not "F1 road car" prototypes in the sense that I was referring to. Though both XP1 LM and 56XPGT are intended for road use, I wouldn't call them "F1 road car prototypes" I'd call them the LM prototype and long tail road car prototype.

It's just an issue of semantics - no worries.

= = = = =

Isn't XP4 simply beautiful.... :bigthumb:

>8^)
ER

The plates on the car in this picture are manufacuter or dealer (Mr. Khan would know!) plates and belong to a concept car company whose owner is a friend of Blair's.

does anyone know who took those photos of xp4??

I tried very hard to find that out when I first found them, following the links through several message forums looking for the original poster of the photos, but was never able to find out.

>8^)
ER

I'm sure most are familiar with these shots - but if you weren't aware, they are XP4 too. Note the single lamp on each side of the rear of the car - I think it looks wider without both lamps and really quite strange.

http://www.plus4.freeserve.co.uk/macf1/mac044.jpg

http://www.plus4.freeserve.co.uk/macf1/mac045.jpg

http://www.plus4.freeserve.co.uk/macf1/mac046.jpg

http://www.plus4.freeserve.co.uk/macf1/mac043.jpg

Personally, I really prefer the Electric Blue - this color is kind of dreary and doesn't look very exotic... :(

>8^)
ER

Originally posted by Peloton25
I'm sure most are familiar with these shots - but if you weren't aware, they are XP4 too. Note the single lamp on each side of the rear of the car - I think it looks wider without both lamps and really quite strange.

http://www.plus4.freeserve.co.uk/macf1/mac044.jpg

http://www.plus4.freeserve.co.uk/macf1/mac045.jpg

http://www.plus4.freeserve.co.uk/macf1/mac046.jpg

http://www.plus4.freeserve.co.uk/macf1/mac043.jpg

Personally, I really prefer the Electric Blue - this color is kind of dreary and doesn't look very exotic... :(

>8^)
ER


i thought they were xp3?

Originally posted by mini magic
i thought they were xp3?

XP3 was bright silver - pull out your copy of "Driving Ambition" and you'll see.

Also, the caption with these four pics on Cottingham's site reads:
This was the very first view that I ever got of a road going F1, at the Coys Historic Festival, Silverstone, in 1993. This is prototype XP4 and visibly differs slightly from the production cars with the absence of side lights with the front indicators, and a different design of rear light.

>8^)
ER

Hello, my name is 'XP3'

Originally posted by Peloton25


>8^)
ER

Hello, my name is 'XP3'

if thats the XP3, which one is this?

http://www.fast-autos.net/mclaren/f14.jpg

That's the non-running F1 prototype built by MGA commonly known as the "Clinic Model".

It was used at the Monaco Launch Party in 1992, that quarry photo shoot for the initial press kit photos, a Shell gasoline advertisement featuring Gordon Murray, and is seen in several other photos painted burgundy or yellow. It eventually received the lower mounted mirrors making it a bit harder to distinguish from other F1s, but there are still a few ways to tell. The mockup has no engine or drivetrain and a fixed engine cover, but it is designed to appear complete "to all but the most persistent of enthusiasts".

Do you have a copy of "Driving Ambition"? There's almost an entire chapter dedicated to that particular car.

>8^)
ER

Originally posted by Peloton25
Do you have a copy of "Driving Ambition"? There's almost an entire chapter dedicated to that particular car.

>8^)
ER

sadly, no :frown:

u say that this car was burgundy? i think i remember seeing a pic of it. same mirror position and stuff.

Originally posted by Peloton25


>8^)
ER

Hello, my name is 'XP3'

thanks:mad:

Originally posted by Stratoraptor
u say that this car was burgundy? i think i remember seeing a pic of it. same mirror position and stuff.

Yes, there are several photos of it painted burgundy, a few of it painted yellow, and apparently it was even blue at some point - but I've never seen photographic proof of that.

A guy like you really needs a copy of that book. I have two copies, if I end up getting buying a Limited Edition version from McLaren Cars, I'll sell you my open copy for cheap. It's not thrashed, but it has seen a lot of use.

>8^)
ER

Originally posted by Peloton25


Yes, there are several photos of it painted burgundy, a few of it painted yellow, and apparently it was even blue at some point - but I've never seen photographic proof of that.

A guy like you really needs a copy of that book. I have two copies, if I end up getting buying a Limited Edition version from McLaren Cars, I'll sell you my open copy for cheap. It's not thrashed, but it has seen a lot of use.

>8^)
ER

i have 2, ones quite thrashed (scanning etc) and one is in the box i got with it, never opened , that box is then in about 2 bags so its basically sealed for the next 10 yrs:biggrin:

We still haven't worked out the fate of the XPs. I was under the impression XP3 was crashed by Bernd, but from the photos i've seen it looked repairable. And way should XP2 not be running? It was the crash test car, but i don't think it was a write off. Surely it was repaired and is lingering around somewhere. Any body know of any tests it was subjected to that might make it a write off?

Do youy think McLaren will sell XPLM and XPGT? Afterall they sold XP4 and are about to sell 065 (the park lane car).

I'll agree that it's possible that XP3 could have been repaired, but I have no information that suggest that it was and the car hasn't been seen for a very long time as far as I'm aware.

I don't think XP2 was ever a complete car - I'm not sure if "Driving Ambition" actually confirms that it was a write off, but I do know cars used in most government crash tests are destroyed afterwards. The fact that XP2 was supposedly driveable following the test does lend credibility to the fact that it could have been repaired, but I'm doubtful that McLaren did.

McLaren Cars didn't actually sell XP4 according to the story that I have heard. Supposedly, the car was given to a relative of the late Bruce McLaren or possibly to the Bruce McLaren Trust and then it found it's way into the hands of it's US owner, Larry Blair, as he is apparently a friend of the family. I'm sure there's more to the story, but specific details like that prove hard to come by.

I honestly don't believe that McLaren Cars would ever sell XPGT, XP1 LM or XP5. I doubt they need the money as much as they would want to preserve those cars for their company history. They are also in possession of GTR #09R & #01R and I don't believe they will sell them either. #01R was the car that won LeMans in '95 & #09R is the GTR used in the McLaren Adrenaline program that wears the West McLaren livery like the current MBZ Formula One cars do.

I can't guarantee all that info, but I'm fairly certain about the claims I make and the opinions I express.

>8^)
ER

I have consulted with my Driving Ambition and all it says is that XP2 was given to BMW as soon as it had been built. It was later returned and readied for the MIRA crash test. After the test it was completely driveable and would have been road legal had the headlights not popped out. XP2 was also inverted to check that occupants could get out if the car flipped. Driving Ambition says that the car survived undamaged. There is no mention as to what happens to the car next.

Apparently XP3 was initially McLarens main test car following the XP1 'accident' and with XP2 being with BMW. BMW did test with this car but i'm not sure it was ever in munich. I did once here that an F1 in the BMW museum in Munich is XP3. Know anything about that?

IMPORTANT!! Just found this in Driving ambition, which is referring to a time not long before customer car production:

"In Britain the four remaining prototypes regularly tested alongside the Grand Prix cars at Silverstone and never looked slow, while they also covered hundreds of miles at Goodwood, Chobham, MIRA and often ran on the two mile straightline runway strip at Bruntingthorpe"

it goes on:

"The development programmes would continue, but much of the theory and many of the doubts, had been proved and disproved as the McLaren F1 approached production"

Sounds to me like XP2 was repaired and was used, as intended, as a standard prototype doing the same sort of work as XP3,4 and 5. I can't be sure of this, but that is what it sounds like.

As somebody got a picture of the car Bernd crashed. I'm sure we could work out what car it was.

ummmmmm i just noticed something about the xp4.
the first set of pictures where it is blue infront of thge house with the porche n the ferrari in the garage, and the pics of the xp4 from tim cottinghams site.

anyone notice the difference:
http://www.plus4.freeserve.co.uk/macf1/mac043.jpg
http://a3.cpimg.com/image/FF/EF/6911743-c639-028001E0-.jpg
ahem, the different lights. if the yare both the same model of xp4, why are the lights changed????

hell i just noticed then that it even has a different " rear bar" the blue one has 4 sets of oval/circular mesh above the exhausts and the green one only has 2......

I've said it many times, but I'll say it again. Those photos you see of the XPs with different front and rear treatments from what you find on the production cars are very early photos taken during the development process before all of the final design details had been decided upon. You'll find photos of XP3 in various states of design - most shots show it with the lower fog lights integrated into the front air ducts as it was the last XP to have that feature, but I have also seen a photo of the car with the production front end lacking those lights and still finished in black instead of the car's silver paint. You'll also find photo of XP5 where it too had the strange front corner markers. There was also a mirror change shortly after production started. XP4 still wears the old style mirror which comes from the Lotus Esprit - most of the other cars that had them XP5 included, have been upgraded to the new mirror which comes from the VW Corrado. Anyway, there were lots of little tweaks along the way - most invisible from the outside as the prototypes progressed through the development process and eventually they would all receive the updates you see on the production cars.

XP4 was resprayed at some point - it was prior to the car leaving McLaren's hands as it wore it's new blue paint for the AutoCar test and also in the Top Gear video. Maybe McLaren Cars decided that original green/gray paint scheme simply wasn't that impressive. I certainly don't like it.

>8^)
ER

Anyone, just wondering if larry blair decided to sell xp4, would it be cheaper than a normal F1, or would homologation costs bring it back up to standard f1 costs. I noticed this on qv500.

Low High
F1 Prototype 5 (4) 1992 - '93 £500,000 £600,000

Also I was wondering wether anyone has any XP1 pics, besides that one found in Driving Ambition previously posted by XOTech, or any pics of XP2 besides the ones on wreckedexotics.com. Or anyones of Xp4 besides cottinghams or the ones at the house with a ferrari and porsche in the garage. Peloton, there has to be at least one more, with 5000 pics.

I have located pics of #65, might be new to you, quite good but blurred because of the reflection. URL below.


http://justin.ruin.org/photo_album/Cars/Other/Mclaren_F1_GTR_2002/

PS:jomo, any news on which f1 is the highest preference atm?

-cheers

Mike

i have a few of the cars u want, i'll look later and post them.


Btw, the updated mirrors (thinner ones than most road cars) came from the XJ220 (they look identical)

So now we know the following:

XP1 - Destroyed
XP2 - Looks likely that it was rebuilt after the crash tests and rejoined the development program. But where is it now?
XP3 - Development car, but was it the one Bernd P crashed?
XP4 - In the states with relative of Bruce McLaren
XP5 - In woking (or park lane showroom) as the fastest production car ever.

Really what we need to determine is what car did Bernd P crash. So anybody care to post a picture of the car, however upsetting it may be.

he crashed XP3, everyone knows that. Here is a pic of it http://www.wreckedexotics.com/mclaren/mclaren_040202_002.jpg

We can't tell from that picture if the tub was damaged or not. If it wasn't it could have been repaired. Anybody know anything about the McLarens at the BMW Museum?

In the top gear video with tiff needle there is a mellow yellow car at about 3 minutes in. Is this the clinic model or is it an XP. I has driving lamps and normal door mirrors. Any ideas?

the yellow car is the clinic model.


i don't think there are any mclarens at the bmw museum any more. IMO

In the top gear video with tiff needle there is a mellow yellow car at about 3 minutes in. Is this the clinic model or is it an XP. I has driving lamps and normal door mirrors. Any ideas?

Mabey it's a normal f1, could be #14, earley chassis, seeing in the video they displayed 001 and 002 and 003 in building process.

mini_magic, how about those pics.

-mike

lemme look

Btw, the updated mirrors (thinner ones than most road cars) came from the XJ220 (they look identical)

It was the original style mirror that was shared with the XJ220 and also the Lotus Esprit. I think it may have even been sourced from some other manufacturer's parts bin before ending up on those two cars.

The final production mirror comes from the VW parts bin along with the switch for controlling the mirrors in the right side console. The mirrors are most definitely the exact same mirror found on the Corrado. I believe that tvrfreak even confirmed they still have the VW stamping on the underside.

Anybody know anything about the McLarens at the BMW Museum?

The BMW Mobile Tradition Museum used to feature three McLaren F1s - a silver road car, and two FINA liveried GTRs, one short and one long tailed. It's unclear if those cars are still there, it's also undetermined exactly which cars they are. I can tell you that the #39 livery on the short tailed GTR would make it GTR #17R, however that car is the one that PTG racing holds for BMW events here in the US. Possibly there are two GTRs wearing an identical livery now? Or possibly that car and the others are no longer there in the museum. It's hard to say because BMW doesn't allow cameras in there. That's a real shame I think.


In the top gear video with tiff needle there is a mellow yellow car at about 3 minutes in. Is this the clinic model or is it an XP. I has driving lamps and normal door mirrors. Any ideas?

It's most definitely the Clinic Model seen in the video there. If you pause the video on the rear shot you can see that the car only has two sets of the vents on the rear bumper above the exhaust. Only the Clinic Model and the early prototypes lacked all four sets. If you pause it on the front shot a few moments later you can also see the small eyebrow vents in the panels above the headlights. Those are a design feature that was only seen on the Clinic Model and XP1 - you won't find them on any other F1, prototype or production. Here's a shot of the Clinic Model on display at some auto show finished in that canary yellow.

http://a4.cpimg.com/image/34/BF/16385844-c7f0-02170159-.jpg

It was apparently painted that color at the request of a customer who couldn't decide between it and silver. Not satisfied with the yellow 1/8th scale mockup that McLaren Cars had already painted for them, they requested Ron Dennis have a full size car painted that color. Regrettably, as the story goes, Dennis had the Clinic Model painted that color and the customer quickly settled on the silver. I'm not sure what the final fate of the Clinic Model was. I'd assume that McLaren Cars is still holding on to it. It certainly can't go anywhere under it's own power.

>8^)
ER

Possibly there are two GTRs wearing an identical livery now?
ER


Good eye on that one! BMW's webcam shows an F1 GTR with #39 and with red Motorsport flags on the nose. The BMW NA McLaren has blue Motorsport flags and also wears #39. If I remember correctly, the US-sponsored car was #39 and the French/English team was #38.

I NOTICED IT NOT HIM (j/k about me being angry, but it was me :) )

you are right about the numbers too

It was the original style mirror that was shared with the XJ220 and also the Lotus Esprit. I think it may have even been sourced from some other manufacturer's parts bin before ending up on those two cars.

The final production mirror comes from the VW parts bin along with the switch for controlling the mirrors in the right side console. The mirrors are most definitely the exact same mirror found on the Corrado. I believe that tvrfreak even confirmed they still have the VW stamping on the underside.

>8^)
ER

Yes, first mirrors on the clinic model were unique. When relocated down to bottom of the a-pillar, they were initally Citroen CX mirrors, then the production mirror is Corrado as suggested, but IIRC it does have a different support/mount to the VW one.

Sorry dont know about XP3, but I always "assumed" it was the crashed one, but no evidance on that

andy

Before i look stupid by posting something that suggests XP3 was rebuilt, i need to know at least which month of '95 that our friend Bernd rolled it. Anybody know?

. I'm not sure what the final fate of the Clinic Model was. I'd assume that McLaren Cars is still holding on to it. It certainly can't go anywhere under it's own power.

>8^)
ER

It was at Beaulieu Motor Museum, and from memory Beaulieu has a brick floor, so maybe its still there?

Thanks for the tip. A quick check of their website which includes menus for the cars they display would make it appear that its no longer there. Might be worth it to send a local in that direction just to make sure.

>8^)
ER

It was at Beaulieu Motor Museum, and from memory Beaulieu has a brick floor, so maybe its still there?
damn, i'll have to check that out when i go in december

Can somebody post the picture on page 223 of drving ambition (the one with 01R, XP1 LM and XP3). It is my understanding that XP1 LM was finished at the very start of december 95, and that XP3 was crashed earlier in the same year. So it would appear that XP3 was rebuilt, as seen in this picture, which couldn't have been taken earlier than early December.

that's some great detective work (provided it's true) :D :thumbsup:

Well it's true to the point that that is the caption next to the photo. There's no way to know if it truly is "XP3". It could be any silver F1 road car. This is one of those mysteries that will require an official answer to a few questions.

What is the true fate of XP3 - and XP2 since some people seem convinced that it was revived after crash testing.

Also, which car did Bernd really crash? Was it repairable?

If anyone wants to go knock on the door at the new McLaren Technology Center and ask, that would be great. ;)

>8^)
ER