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Transmission Questions


happydog500
11-09-2012, 08:43 PM
I had to replace my motor, when I got a new one, I found my transmission was slipping. I could go slow, but if I really push it, it would slip.
After months of not driving (went out almost completely), I replaced the trans with a "Good" "low mile" "101,000" one.

I payed a lot to have it put in, only to find it also slipped. The person at the trans shop told me these trans are not very good. He's had then come in shot, with 50,000, and one with 40,000. (I know there are lots out there with hundreds of thousands, so you don't need to respond with your mileage).

He said something about second gear clutch being a weak point in these (I think that's what he said).
He told me that to get a trans and, fix whats the weak point, it's about $2,600.
How hard is it to replace a clutch, or whatever it is that makes it slip? What is it that needs to be done?
Is there anyway to know, or have any idea if a trans is good if you get a used one?

Thank you,
Chris.

enslow
11-09-2012, 11:43 PM
I would first try dropping the pan, change the filter, refill. Then put a tube of Dr Tranny Instant shudder fix, then go from there. I personally haven't heard of the clutch being a common problem, although I've heard of issues with the lockup torque converter.

MagicRat
11-10-2012, 01:36 AM
Good advice.
Over many years and many cars, I have found a fluid and filter change fixes auto trans problems about half the time. Don't substitute a flush. You need to drop the pan, clean it out and change that filter.

happydog500
11-10-2012, 02:01 AM
Good advice.
Over many years and many cars, I have found a fluid and filter change fixes auto trans problems about half the time. Don't substitute a flush. You need to drop the pan, clean it out and change that filter.
I did a fluid and filter change, with a flush, and dropped the pan and that's when it started slipping.

Thank you for the reply,
Chris.

enslow
11-10-2012, 12:03 PM
The flush part may have been your problem. I've heard that doing a flush on older transmissions causes problems. Simple pan drops with a filter change seem ok.

happydog500
11-10-2012, 12:32 PM
The flush part may have been your problem. I've heard that doing a flush on older transmissions causes problems. Simple pan drops with a filter change seem ok.

Or the transmission was bad, and nothing I would of done would hurt it.
Chris.

happydog500
11-17-2012, 06:27 PM
Just got back from the store where the College automotive class was having a fundraiser. They will read the codes and check everything else they can with there big electronics stuff.
I had them read for the transmission codes. They said there is no codes stored.
If the car misfires, it leaves a misfire code. If it runs lean, it leaves a lean code. I was wondering, how can a car transmission slip so much, but yet leave no code?

Chris..

Tech II
11-17-2012, 10:21 PM
First of all, If I am putting a used tranny in a vehicle, before it goes in, it is going to be checked.....new axle seals and converter seal is put in....converter will be emptied and after the tranny is in, replace the filter and fluid....

Before the tranny is put in the vehicle, that side cover is going to be pulled(now is the time to do it), and I am going to have all the valves in the valve body checked for movement, and I am going to replace the TCC solenoid and the pressure control solenoid....that's minimum....have seen guys put complete new valve bodies.....

If that tranny is slipping as much as you say it is, there should be a code set....need to drive the vehicle with a scan tool attached and watch tranny data.....check input and output rpms....check transmission slippage....should be under 30 rpms in fourth gear, under a load(like up a grade)...

happydog500
11-18-2012, 01:21 AM
Before the tranny is put in the vehicle, that side cover is going to be pulled(now is the time to do it), and I am going to have all the valves in the valve body checked for movement, and I am going to replace the TCC solenoid and the pressure control solenoid....that's minimum....have seen guys put complete new valve bodies.....

Thanks for the reply, If I would of done this, it still would slip because the clutches would not be replaced. Would of been more of a wast then it was.

Chris.

enslow
11-19-2012, 12:26 AM
Just got back from the store where the College automotive class was having a fundraiser. They will read the codes and check everything else they can with there big electronics stuff.
I had them read for the transmission codes. They said there is no codes stored.
If the car misfires, it leaves a misfire code. If it runs lean, it leaves a lean code. I was wondering, how can a car transmission slip so much, but yet leave no code?

Chris..

I had a bad misfire a few years ago with no codes set. To set a missfire code, the plug has to miss consecutively a number of times. I had random miss fires. The way I caught them was to hook up a scantool to monitor misses in real time. Not a single code was set, and I could hardly make it up a hill. At the same time, the scantool reported misses at multiple plugs in real time. all I'm saying is it could be plugs, and if it were, you wouldn't be the first to be fooled by an engine miss. I 've heard of pros making the same mistake too. Then again, it could be tranny slip too. Try a scantool with real time data logging or viewing and confirm its not missing.

Tech II
11-19-2012, 12:06 PM
Thanks for the reply, If I would of done this, it still would slip because the clutches would not be replaced. Would of been more of a wast then it was.

Of course that is true......that's the chance you take by putting a used tranny in......but by doing what I suggested, it would have eliminated the potential problems with a PCS solenoid and a TCC solenoid, which are known causes for slippage.....can you imagine putting a used tranny in , and then finding out the converter seal is leaking after the fact?

Just trying to alert others about things they should do before installling a used tranny....

happydog500
11-21-2012, 09:19 PM
Thanks for the reply, If I would of done this, it still would slip because the clutches would not be replaced. Would of been more of a wast then it was.

Of course that is true......that's the chance you take by putting a used tranny in......but by doing what I suggested, it would have eliminated the potential problems with a PCS solenoid and a TCC solenoid, which are known causes for slippage.....can you imagine putting a used tranny in , and then finding out the converter seal is leaking after the fact?

Just trying to alert others about things they should do before installling a used tranny....
OK, thank you. We did put in the converter seal.
How hard is it to put in the clutches?

maxwedge
11-22-2012, 10:13 AM
Replacing the clutches requires a complete disassembly of the trans.

happydog500
11-24-2012, 08:14 PM
Replacing the clutches requires a complete disassembly of the trans.
How come I don't get a trans slip code when my trans slips?

enslow
11-25-2012, 12:28 AM
Instead of telling us your transmission is slipping, describe your symptoms. You may not have transmission slip codes if the cause of your symptoms is not from the transmission.

Refer to my previous post. Many transmission slip symptoms are caused by other components that can include ignition, MAF sensors, even engine /transmission mounts.

happydog500
11-25-2012, 01:21 AM
Instead of telling us your transmission is slipping, describe your symptoms. You may not have transmission slip codes if the cause of your symptoms is not from the transmission.

Refer to my previous post. Many transmission slip symptoms are caused by other components that can include ignition, MAF sensors, even engine /transmission mounts.
Car runs great! Can drive around good, when I give it gas, it accelerates fine. When I step on it hard, the rpms go up higher then what is normal. If I take my foot out of it, it goes back down.

This is the same as it did on my original trans. I kept driving it and finally got worse and came to a point where it was almost like it was in neutral. I had to drive home 5pmh. Any more and it would slip.

This one is doing the same thing when my original one started to go bad.

I do kind of wonder that the common thing between this trans and the original is the motor, but on the other had, this is what happened that led to the trans going out.

Chris.

Jrs3800
12-02-2012, 08:39 PM
How come I don't get a trans slip code when my trans slips?

with the 4T60E you are not going to get slip codes unless its slipping in TCC Lock, and even then I forget what kind of RPM drop the PCM is looking for.. when the PCM commands the TCC lock and does not see the RPM drop it will set a slip code.. The 4T60E is in a sort a dumb trans as it does not have all the electronics that the 4T65E has...

So say you had slip going from 1st to 2nd the PCM would not be able to tell you you have slip, so no slip codes if that makes sense... It will only set slip codes while in TCC lock..

I also agree that you will need to see what the Slip Rpms are while in TCC lock..

After almost 200k on my 4T60E my TCC slip is still at a bare minimum 10-15 Rpms under full PWM apply..


Another question as I know we have chatted about your transmissions in the past.. Did you ever install an aftermarket cooler?

happydog500
12-02-2012, 09:08 PM
with the 4T60E you are not going to get slip codes unless its slipping in TCC Lock, and even then I forget what kind of RPM drop the PCM is looking for.. when the PCM commands the TCC lock and does not see the RPM drop it will set a slip code.. The 4T60E is in a sort a dumb trans as it does not have all the electronics that the 4T65E has...

So say you had slip going from 1st to 2nd the PCM would not be able to tell you you have slip, so no slip codes if that makes sense... It will only set slip codes while in TCC lock..

I also agree that you will need to see what the Slip Rpms are while in TCC lock..

After almost 200k on my 4T60E my TCC slip is still at a bare minimum 10-15 Rpms under full PWM apply..


Another question as I know we have chatted about your transmissions in the past.. Did you ever install an aftermarket cooler?

Did not get an aftermarket cooler. I'm not sure I can get any slip with the TCC lock. If I don't give it much gas, it doesn't slip. It's only when I give it lots of gas. When I do that wouldn't that unlock the TCC?
Glad to hear about the dumb trans, since that makes sense (as to why no codes, not why they made it like that).
Anyway or anything I can do to increase my odds at getting a good one if there is a next time?
Chris.

Jrs3800
12-03-2012, 08:10 AM
did you use a 96 or 97 Trans... I am a little foggy on the details.. The 96-97's had a change in the TCC apply strategy but this does not seem to be what you have described..

where does the slip happen? What gear, part throttle say 50%, 60% .....?

happydog500
12-03-2012, 04:26 PM
did you use a 96 or 97 Trans... I am a little foggy on the details.. The 96-97's had a change in the TCC apply strategy but this does not seem to be what you have described..
where does the slip happen? What gear, part throttle say 50%, 60% .....?
My 97 car was made in march 96, the 96 trans was made in June 96, so the 96 trans is newer then the 97 I took out.
My original didn't have the wa2 option, so the 96 was the same (same ratio also).

I keep thinking somehow it's not the trans, but really, I am coming to grips that there is no other answer.
To start out with the obvious, when driving down the highway, if I accelerate, it does OK. When I want to pass someone, step on the gas, the rpms go up higher then the speed increase used to.
Not sure if it's just 'passing gear' but it's like when you go down, it roars and you take off like a rocket ship. With this problem, it goes up, but you don't accelerate like it used to. I can then back off and gradually go faster like normal (almost).

A few times when driving down the street, I let off the gas to turn a corner, turn, then when I give it gas, I notice it doesn't 'catch' for a second. This only happens not every time.
One time down a 30mph road, I turned a corner and gave it gas, not full where it goes into 'passing gear' but just more. The rpms went way up, I backed off and it 'caught' and I had to accelerate slower then before to keep it from doing it.

Chris.

stripe
12-03-2012, 06:57 PM
I had a 98 that was real fussy about the R.P.M.S.

I got rid of it but I think it had to do with the speed limiter.
Maybe something to check.

Cheers
Viper1

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