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97 2.2 engine running rough after timing chain change

09-20-2012, 03:12 PM
ok so i stumped

i lined up the timing marks to the chain tensioner put the engine all back together, tried firing it up never started had to floor and took about a minute of turning over before she started

it runs but runs rough the engine light is flashing when i plug the obd code reader it in it says missfire twice

so what did i do wrong i lined it up and stuff

and i hear a tap in the vavle cover now just a 1 tap not like the lifters sound when no oil

Tech II
09-20-2012, 04:00 PM
Double check the timing? Sure it's not off a tooth?

Check compression? Ignition wires going to the correct plugs?

09-20-2012, 04:51 PM
i in middle of taking it apart again ugh

but my friend said it could be 180 degrees out? he told me to take it all part turn till they line up and then take chain off and then turn the crank 1 full turn and put back on

as he says its probably at BDC not TDC

but my book doesnt talk about it mattering like that

but im sure it lined up the teeth ill take a pic when i get it all done

09-20-2012, 07:30 PM
so i got it all apart but when i turn crank shaft i guess doesnt matter everytime the time mark lines up the first cylinder but the alternator is at TDC

but trying to turn the cam shaft still frigin tight no matter what pos i put the crank shaft Dot the cam shaft is tight u turn a but more and it springs ahead two times i do that and then it sprints to the Timing mark

so whats wrong with this? could it have gotten damaged when it orginally broke on the road trying to t urn over engine?

or what is the issue or what can be done?

09-21-2012, 09:24 AM
guess ill test compression later today when i put engine back together ugh

i was thinking if the valves got bent could it happen at moment when car broke down? like trying to start engine

09-21-2012, 09:58 AM
ok here is some pics
tell me if i lined it up right as i wont put it back together till i know and not waste my time re ripping it apart

09-21-2012, 02:54 PM
so say if from what i read on different forms the valves got damaged and these push rods cuz the timing chain broke and mom tried starting it

question is can the cam shaft be damage? if so i i shouldnt put timing cover on right? or is it safe to say i can put cover on and the oil pan etc

i just dont wanna tear it all apart again

Tech II
09-21-2012, 09:23 PM
Marks look ok, with crank at 12 and cam at 6 o'clock......

Release tensioner and rotate crank two complete turns and the marks should align again.....

I would do a compression test......if ok, make sure the wires are coming off the coils correctly to the right cylinders...

so i got it all apart but when i turn crank shaft i guess doesnt matter everytime the time mark lines up the first cylinder but the alternator is at TDC

Alternator is at TDC? That makes no sense....

09-21-2012, 09:28 PM
ok ill try that tommorow turning it sorry dislexia gets better of me i ment to say was that the first cylinder lines up at TDC

so if i still have poor compression

is that a bent valve or something else? ill try tommorow

what are the steps in that? as the hayes book doesnt talk about valves just the housing etc

09-21-2012, 09:31 PM
oh and is the cam supposed to be hard to turn on its own? it goes easy for a bit then reachs a point and its hard to turn then u force it a bit more and then it jumps is that the springs in the under the valve cover? or is that a bent valve

are you supposed to feel resistance turning then cam shaft?

09-21-2012, 09:37 PM
i know yesterday i tried turning with the cam shaft with chain and i could turn it 2 times i think like full crank turns and then it would get stuck i couldnt turn it anymore and this is with all 4 spark plugs out all i did was start tightening the crank bolt what does that mean?

i thinking it got damaged when it broke when my mom was driving car and chain snapped then

09-22-2012, 12:40 PM
ok i stummped you say the Crank at 12 and the cam at 6 o clock

they dont line up that way when i turn the crank makes it to 12 and the Cam is also at 12 you crank it around more and then the lines line back up

so is that 180 degrees out?

if so what do i do

09-22-2012, 01:03 PM
is the a special tool
as i trying to set the Cam shaft to 6o clock but you cant thats where the pressure is i set it there but using air gun to get the nut off spring loads it back to the timing mark on the chain tensioner

is there a way to lock it or what is the steps as i can only get 12 o'clock for both gears

09-22-2012, 01:14 PM
so i confused the hayes book doesnt say about 12 and 6 o'clock

just about lining up the marks to the tesnioner

but when i set the Crank to 12 o clock on the cam i get like 5:30 and 10: 30 11:30 ish but not 6 o clock or 12 o clock dead on

when the cam is set at 6 o'clock the crank shaft is like 1 o'clock

but they do line up on the tensioner notchs
so whats reall wrong?

and i guessing it cant be a 180 degrees out of time since the timing marks line up at the 2 notchs yet they dont line up for the 6 and 12 mark settings

09-22-2012, 01:53 PM
I'm not sure if you engine is interference or non-interference. If interference, then when the chain broke, you probably bent some valves. Worst case, punched a hole in a piston head.

09-22-2012, 02:32 PM
ok here pics i took

the first two show the Cam at 6 o clock and the Crank at 1 o clockish

2nd set show Cam at 11 o clock ish and the Crank at 12 o clock

any help

Tech II
09-22-2012, 02:39 PM
I used 12 and 6 o'clock as a general alignment....like you said, they should line up with the notches on the tensioner backing plate...in other words, if you were to hold a straight edge between the center of the cam bolt and the crank bolt, the marks would be directly in line.....12 and 6 , in relation to the line....

When you recheck the timing, you rotate the crank sprocket, TWICE, and the marks should be back in time, not 180 out....

Should never try to rotate a cam by itself, or when it is out of time, because then a valve could hit a piston......and yes, rotating the chain, with the plugs out, will not be smooth because of the pressure from the valve springs on the rockers to the push rods to the lifters to the cam......

If this is an interference engine, then it's possible a valve is bent OR a push rod is bent......if you have low compression, it's one or the other.....they are the weak links, rather than a piston getting a hole(hole in pistons are usually due to heat/pre-ignition)......if you are lucky, it's the push rod....

09-22-2012, 02:56 PM
ok so then ill put it back together bottom

so how do you know if engine is interference or non-interference whats the difference

so the push rod are they the little sticks? or are they the actual valves

what are the steps to check?

so now ill just slap the lower part back together

and can i change the push rods without having to take head off?

09-22-2012, 04:49 PM
i was just re reading what you wrote
you say never turn the cam shaft by itself with no chain as it might damage it

the how do you turn the cam shaft to line up to the markings? i dont think engine breaks where the markings line up

for future reference for next vehicle how do you deal with that?

09-22-2012, 05:41 PM
ok i have valve cover can i tell whats broken by just turning engine at crank shaft?

i took off each lifter and pulled the rod s out and looked at them and then slide them back in the whole
none of them look bent

so i take it then its valves?

Tech II
09-22-2012, 09:03 PM
Diagnosis, usually has a set procedure......you've done a lot of work, taking the engine apart, time and again......the way you check push rods, is roll them on a flat table to see if they are bent.....

But doesn't it make sense to do a compression test first, before taking things apart?

If you have a misfire, doesn't it make sense to check coil output, plugs and wires, before taking an engine apart?

If misfire is because of a bad injector, disable fuel and spray a constant stream of fuel into intake to see if misfire is gone....

09-22-2012, 09:06 PM
well i didnt think need to since the car was running perfectly fine before the chain broke

but i have put new plugs and wires on

and i posted in another feed i did a compression test on the one cylinder at least i got 35 psi either it was cylinder 3 or 4

tommorow ill reput the lifters back on and turn it over and do compression test on each cylinder and post the results

09-23-2012, 11:25 AM
alright i put the lifters back down and tighten them down

then put the compression tester on and this is the readings i got

Clyinder PSI
1 0
2 160
3 190
4 80

so now what? comes off the head to replace the valves then right cuz they broke?

Tech II
09-23-2012, 01:07 PM
Yup, afraid so.....

You can do a leak down test......easy since #1 is the problem......if you have the tool, just put #1 at TDC(compression), and pressurize the cylinder with air using the leak down tool.......if you hear air out of exhaust, exhaust valve....out of intake, intake valve, from the oil filler tube, bad piston(doubt that).....

It 's a valve....also have a problem with #4, too....

09-23-2012, 01:51 PM
ok so i put air on cylinder 1
and i get air just blowing out the outtake
and i turned engine by hand some and i get air out the intake and the exhaust and also out cylinder 2 or 3
but the intake valve seals off

on cylinder 4 i get air out the intake and cylinder 2 and 3 but it seals off so the exhaust seals off

now i forgoton need to write it down

but the 2 cylinders 1 and 2 no air came ou the oil filler

so what does that all mean

and since the hayes book doesnt say is there special tools needed to remove valves? it doesnt even have it in there
what the steps for that

and considering i gotta take alot off is there a headgasket set for all the seals or i gotta buy each one seperate?

09-23-2012, 05:18 PM
ok i got problem i got the exhaust manifold off

but working on the intake manifold i got the top of and it was covered in black soot and that pipe going up that was plugged with soot what is that?

either way i got the 8 nuts off the mainfold and hit it with the back of a hammer (wood part) to try to push manifold off but it wont go whats holding it on? and dont say that pipe that goes from the pipe with the soot to the engine its the alumunum pipe as i cant get a wrench in there

these cars are made for an elf or a china man he can jump in the engine and work on it

frig lol miss old style easier to work on

09-23-2012, 06:59 PM
ok i finnally got head out

i took pics staring with piston 1 to 4 in order

so how do i take off the springs etc its not in the hayes book and i only done 4 stroke lawn mower engines with just a screw driver

and why is one vavlve black and other white is the white the intake? and do you buy them as a set of 8 so i might as well do them all?

do you have to Lap these or what do i do now have it sent in to be fixed?

i dont see the valves bent and cylinder 1 looks a little open

also took some pics of the cylinder heads too they have anti freeze in them but u can tell me what not

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