new suspension making noises

ok guys so i recently did all new suspension on my caprice...new springs all around...new shocks all around....all new ball joints and all the tie rods brnd new too and new sway bar... after installing everything i took the car to the shop and they did alignment and said they checked everything out and said i was good to go. The reason i did all new suspension in the first place was because a noise i was getting which i believed to be a bad ball joint so i just went ahead and did everything since i had to pull the control arms and what not. after everything is said and done the car is still making the same noise....its like a clicking noise which only happens when i apply the brake and the car lurches forward it sounds like a poppin like something isnt tight and the car is moving forward on the frame or something....it doesnt happen in reverse and happens at all speeds sometimes one click sometimes 3 consecutive...ive lost my mind tryna figure this out...any ideas guys really would help:runaround:

pretty sure its only on the left side.

also its not like a quite popping or clicking its pretty loud and noticeable.

Did you have the upper arms off? If not, be sure that the nuts on the studs where the alignment shims are located are tight. The alignment shop should have caught this if it were a problem, wont hurt to check though. Also be sure the calipers are tight.

ya im gonna check the brakes today to see if it could be related to calipers or something loose in there...

also i forgot to mention i have cragar spoke wheels which my dad think could be the cause of it maybe...im gonna switch the too front wheels and see if it changes anything...

the upper arm nuts are tight but good idea

ya im gonna check the brakes today to see if it could be related to calipers or something loose in there...

also i forgot to mention i have cragar spoke wheels which my dad think could be the cause of it maybe...im gonna switch the too front wheels and see if it changes anything...

the upper arm nuts are tight but good idea

could be calipers or the pads not properly riding in the caliper. also the control arm bushings could be worn. the other common noise in this area is the coil springs top insulator and the engine motor mounts esp. the driver side is n/g.

i did all new bushings on both upper and lower so it cant be that

I left the coil spring insulator in there so i doubt its that

and seems if it was the motor mount i would get a louder noise

im goonna check the brakes today and see

With a new tight front end, your are probably hearing other noises.
How about new rubber exhaust + muffler hangers.

the noise was their before i did the suspension

thats why i re did everything...i thought it was a bad ball joint

the exhaust is all new too cant be that....

i did all new bushings on both upper and lower so it cant be that

I left the coil spring insulator in there so i doubt its that

and seems if it was the motor mount i would get a louder noise

im goonna check the brakes today and see

the motor mount noise will vary. depends on how bad it is.also the motor mount frame bolt holes do get worn causing movement.

you know how to check these ? takes 2 min .

in post #2 you said it was LOUD . my experience is this slowly gets more as the breakage of the rubber increases unless you smashed up the vehicle hitting something.

Check the condition of the body mounts. A deteriorated one will allow the body to flex a bit, leading to these clunks.

THANKS AGAIN FOR QUICK RESPONSES GUYS ITS AWSOME

i checked it out today and it seams to me that when i did the brake pads i didnt hammer down the "ears" of the pads...so when they were installed there was wiggle room...

after trying to hammer them out on one side i got them a little tighter but not all the way it seemed to reduce the sound...but not completely...

im thinking the pads are loose inside calipers and its making a sound similar to a bad ball joint.... gonnna try to check out more tomorrow

thanks

THANKS AGAIN FOR QUICK RESPONSES GUYS ITS AWSOME

i checked it out today and it seams to me that when i did the brake pads i didnt hammer down the "ears" of the pads...so when they were installed there was wiggle room...

after trying to hammer them out on one side i got them a little tighter but not all the way it seemed to reduce the sound...but not completely...

im thinking the pads are loose inside calipers and its making a sound similar to a bad ball joint.... gonnna try to check out more tomorrow

thanks

with the pads install you do not hammer anything. using a pliers you bend the outer pad tabs slightly then press into the caliper . this is repeated until the pad sets firmly into the caliper. the inner pad has a clip that holds it to the piston. if that is missing you will require a new one.

also the pin rubber may need replacement if the calper is too loose.

pad/caliper noise is a rattle sound when going over bumps.

ball joint noise is a clunk/pop sound. this sound would also be heard with the other front end steering components and the motor mounts.

my haynes manual calls for you to pry up on the pad and hit the ears down with a hammer....

i guess the sound isnt really loud but its not just my metal to metal coil spring...

what is the rubber pin your talkin about?

the innner pin is good and the inner pad isnt ratteling...

i doubt its motor mounts....i had a cadillac with a bad motor mount
this noise can happen when coasting at like 5 - 10 mph and then lightly applying brakes

my haynes manual calls for you to pry up on the pad and hit the ears down with a hammer....

i guess the sound isnt really loud but its not just my metal to metal coil spring...

what is the rubber pin your talkin about?

the innner pin is good and the inner pad isnt ratteling...

i doubt its motor mounts....i had a cadillac with a bad motor mount
this noise can happen when coasting at like 5 - 10 mph and then lightly applying brakes

I will add another reason why I do not like these haynes manuals.

the calipers are held by 2 pins. they slide on these pins . the body has round rubber these go thru. if they are worn or missing the caliper will move too easy/much.

the inner piston pad is held by a clip. if this is broken / missing this will make noises.

those two bolts are there but i dont think they slide threw any rubber...
they are fully tightened but the pads still wiggle in place...(not the inside)
the outside pad moves back and fourth about half an inch maybe less...\
but im almost posative this is the noise...

should i try prying the ears for the pads instead of hammering?

ok after further inspection the side that i hammered yesterday isnt wiggeling anymore so maybe thats not causing the noise:naughty:

but the noise is still there.....

this time 3-5 pings or clicks in a row.....

any chance its my cragar spoke wheels? i really dont know what to think now

maybe its my sway bar?

its coming from the wheel well forsure....but i cant pin point it

those two bolts are there but i dont think they slide threw any rubber...
they are fully tightened but the pads still wiggle in place...(not the inside)
the outside pad moves back and fourth about half an inch maybe less...\
but im almost posative this is the noise...

should i try prying the ears for the pads instead of hammering?

THESE ARE THREADED PINS , that slide threw these rubber doughnuts that are in the holes of the caliper. so therefore if you slid these threaded pins into the place that you now can screw in with no rubber then this is the problem or for sure a problem with the brakes and this should make noises. the pins should also be cleaned and smooth this is so the caliper will slide smoothly across / thru these rubber doughnuts.

again you use a pliers to bend these tabs on the outer pad. then you push into place. they should not move. you never hammer pads, THAT IS WHY THEY WILL BREAK.

ok so back from the shop today and you guys were right....im missing rubber washers that sit inside of the caliper...

however i also had my upper ball joints installed incorrect and the lower ones were very loose...anybody know what to torq these to?

anyway thanks for help...im going to try to find these brake caliper washers but having problems currently...

the ball joint screw up is common when the installer loosens the nut to align the cotter pin and also refusing to use a torque wrench.


the upper ball joint is torqued to 65 ft LBS, then tighened to get the cotter hole pin installed.

the lower ball nut is toqued to 83 ft LBS , tighened to get the cotter hole lined up.

the control arms are torqued to 75 ft LBS.

your calipers with no rubber for cal pin securing I find strange with your questioning this . I guess you never did brakes before. this is why I threw that missing doughnut cal pin rubber out there, but could not believe that you did not know this is a part of the caliper.

you may have to go to the scrap yard or get another caliper. the pins like I stated before need be smooth and free of rust. if not then these rubber parts will get riped and pulled out.

I have used a silicone grease on these to keep them soft and aid in cal pin slide.

sweet thanks bro!

is this what im looking for

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/BHH0/H5539/01266.oap?year=1985&make=Chevrolet&model=Caprice&vi=1036831&ck=Search_01266_1036831_2500&categoryRedirect=01266&pt=01266&ppt=C0064

sweet thanks bro!

is this what im looking for

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/BHH0/H5539/01266.oap?year=1985&make=Chevrolet&model=Caprice&vi=1036831&ck=Search_01266_1036831_2500&categoryRedirect=01266&pt=01266&ppt=C0064


that looks good. the small rubber is for the pin ends. the larger is for those steel bushings. clips for the inner pad,

just make sure the pins are smooth and put some silcone grease on the rubbers then the cal should slide easy with the pistons fully pushed back.

also the cal should be secure and not move around like before making those noises.

thanks for your help man

im gonna put everything together tomorrow morning

but i also have to figure out why my car is starting poorly in morning....

you think its the choke pull off? a rubber diaphragm ?

thanks for your help man

im gonna put everything together tomorrow morning

but i also have to figure out why my car is starting poorly in morning....

you think its the choke pull off? a rubber diaphragm ?

it is the pulloff leaking vacuum or the linkage is dirty sticking.

some times the electric choke stove needs replacing. this is because when it goes bad after several years this fails to close the coke plate fully, when warm weather arrives.

so to check if its the linkage i would just spray it with some parts cleaner and wash and dry it and then start motor?

if its the choke stove which i think is the cyllinder thing on the left side of the carb with part of the wiring hrness to it...which opens and closses choke and what not? how do i check if this is working...can i just watch and see if the choke opens up?

sorry but whats the pull off?

thanks for help

so to check if its the linkage i would just spray it with some parts cleaner and wash and dry it and then start motor?

if its the choke stove which i think is the cyllinder thing on the left side of the carb with part of the wiring hrness to it...which opens and closses choke and what not? how do i check if this is working...can i just watch and see if the choke opens up?

sorry but whats the pull off?

thanks for help

the choke stove has a 12 volt wire to it . it is on the passengerside mid point of the carb. this has a spring inside a round metal bowl with a plastic cover which is where the wire makes the connection from the alternator output.

the choke pull off has a vacuum hose to it it is on the passengerside of carb also but it is toward the front of the vehicle. pull off the hose. place finger over the hole after pushing in this metal arm that connects to the linkage. if the arm does not stay in the pushed in position with your finger over the hole you need this replaced [its leaking]

so today when i started the car i held that lever down while i started it and it started up perfect....

so does that mean the choke stove is bad or does that mean the gold cyllinder that connects to it needs replacing?

so today when i started the car i held that lever down while i started it and it started up perfect....

so does that mean the choke stove is bad or does that mean the gold cyllinder that connects to it needs replacing?


hard to understand what you held.

the choke stove holds the plate closed,fully. when the engine starts the pull off opens this plate about .170 inches. and this opening is fast not slow.

so if you held the plate closed, then it would be thechoke stove.

with a carb you must push down on the gas pedal to get the choke to engage setup. this also squirts some fluid into the intake . when cranking with this plate closed you increase the amount of suction in the intake to suck fuel out of the carb. vacuum created by the running engine is how fuel enters the engine.

this is why you never adjust any carb adjustments until you check with a vacuum guage that you have no vac leaks. with leaks you loose power and idle will be ruff/also run lean [PINGING]

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll52/tohsiom2121/carb.jpg
so number 3 is the lever i was holding down

is number 2 or 3 the choke stove

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll52/tohsiom2121/carb.jpg
so number 3 is the lever i was holding down

is number 2 or 3 the choke stove

#1 is the choke "stove". #2 and #3 are actually the same part, the choke pull off.

so if you where holding down the #3 lever this would be the choke pull off. so does the choke pull off have a leak ? when vac is applied it should snap back. when you disconnect the vac line to it push in that arm rod then place your finger over the hose hole it should stay in , take finger off hole and the come out.

looking at your set up I see a plastic T vac fitting. the rubber plug is with cracks so that must be replaced. avoid using those rubber vac end caps. they all crack. try to get a 90 deg instaed of the T fitting eliminating it .

ya i deff wanna find one so i dont need that plug

wont have time till tomrrow but im pretty sure when we pushed in the #3 and [plugged the end of the hose it didnt stay in place and it slowly released....

ill get back with more info

on a side note....

i got those brake kits for both sides which had new rubber o-rings and the little metal cylinders...installed on calipers but im still getting the popping noise....

its not as frequent as before....

could this still be the brake pad ears? or something else....

on a side note....

i got those brake kits for both sides which had new rubber o-rings and the little metal cylinders...installed on calipers but im still getting the popping noise....

its not as frequent as before....

could this still be the brake pad ears? or something else....


did you use a torque wrench and torque all those components properly that you replaced in the suspension ?

do you know how to properly grease and torque the front wheel bearings ? did you check the front wheels for any lateral movements because of wheel bearing worn/ damaged /not properly torqued.

did you check motor mounts ? also ball joints ?

when replacing ball joints sometimes the repairer damages the control arm. need to do the ball joint test.

all suspension components were torqed by the shop when they did the alignment...

when they reinstalled the upper ball joints they checked the lowers for torq...

control arms were pressed for all new bushings professionally...

I havent checked the motor mounts....

and ive never done wheel bearings but that might be something i need to do?

just got off the phone with the alignment shop and he doesnt think it could be the wheel bearings...i suggested warped rotors and he disagrees with that idea

double checked that he torqed evertything and he said he did and that the sound isnt coming from the suspension...that it was coming from the wheel well....

ive read on here that sometimes a bad tie rod can make that noise but all mine are new..

just got off the phone with the alignment shop and he doesnt think it could be the wheel bearings...i suggested warped rotors and he disagrees with that idea

double checked that he torqed evertything and he said he did and that the sound isnt coming from the suspension...that it was coming from the wheel well....

ive read on here that sometimes a bad tie rod can make that noise but all mine are new..

just because this was done professionally does not mean it was done correctly. I would ask what he torqued the control arms,upper ball joints, lower ball joints. you have the correct spec's I gave you. do not tell him anything . see what numbers he throws out ,or what BS and fast talking he does.

so you didn't do all this work. its being to make sense now.

the alignment shop is this the tire shop ?

the alignment shop , do they work on frame alignments in vehicle reconstruction after accident ?

True line frame shop... They specialize in all chassis related stuff...

I'm gOnna check all his torq specs when I get a chance but I'm confident he did them correctly...

Anything you think I should check besides torq specs

I made a suggestion on post #10 that you might want to check into!

hey sorry man i missed that message.... whats a body mount lol...

unfamiliar with them... any help is appreciated!

true line frame shop... They specialize in all chassis related stuff...

I'm gonna check all his torq specs when i get a chance but i'm confident he did them correctly...

Anything you think i should check besides torq specs


since they are a frame shop and you did give them a lot of work on this vehicle i am surprised they have failed to correct this issue.

all i had them do was press the bushings into the control arms....i put the suspension back together...(and was wrong on uppers) which they fixed when i took it back in for the final alignment....

1. all im trying to do is figure out what this clicking is...it has been drastically reduced by installing that brake bushing kit...and clicks very rarely...however it still exists...all i wanna do is fix it...and i dont have any more money to pay a shop to spend tim trying to fix it....if you guys think its wourth it ill go back and check all the torq specs...

2. related to the carb start up issue i had...when i start my car in the morning while holding down the lever thats on the choke stove the car starts up perfect...when i dont hold it it runs like crap and spits smoke....so whats my next step/what needs to be replaced?

Thanks for help

A body mount is the rubber bushing set that attaches a part of the body to the frame. The ones I would particularly look at are the two that mount the radiator core support to the frame.

the thing is the clicking is only present when brakes are applied...

ill check those mounts but my guess is its related to the rotors or calipers or someting brake related...theres no sound when taking corners fast or on acceleration ....

even when i rock the car hard left to right or up and down everything sounds tight....

i might try new brake pads since thats a cheap fix...

the thing is the clicking is only present when brakes are applied...

ill check those mounts but my guess is its related to the rotors or calipers or someting brake related...theres no sound when taking corners fast or on acceleration ....

even when i rock the car hard left to right or up and down everything sounds tight....

i might try new brake pads since thats a cheap fix...

When you apply the brakes, weight shifts along the Y axis of the car (down the center from back to front). The back end gets lighter as the weight of the car is shifted toward the front. There is enough weight shift to cause a clunk from a bad body mount (especially up front) when you apply the brakes. There might not be enough energy from a brisk up and down push by human power (your arms) to show a problem in this area.

Other possibilites are the sway bar bushings, or loose (missing) shims on the upper control arm.

A loose pad in the caliper will cause a clicking sound as you drive, most noticeably as you drive slow, but this goes away the instant you apply brake pedal pressure. I know this, as this is an issue with my own car (and has been for the last decade I've owned it). I don't deem it important enough to waste energy on.

I'm not just pulling this stuff out of thin air. I've had this happen with a body mount before, symptoms were exactly as you describe - the 'untraceable clunk when braked are applied' syndrome.

ya sway bar bushings are brand new...

and like ive said the upper control arms should be good i had them done at a shop...but if it was upper would it be where the ball joint attatches or where the control arm connects to the frame of the car those 2 bolts....shims are tight forsure

im gonna deff look into those body mounts and check them out...

im slowly loosing interest in this annoying intermittent sound lol

so if you where holding down the #3 lever this would be the choke pull off. so does the choke pull off have a leak ? when vac is applied it should snap back. when you disconnect the vac line to it push in that arm rod then place your finger over the hose hole it should stay in , take finger off hole and the come out.

looking at your set up I see a plastic T vac fitting. the rubber plug is with cracks so that must be replaced. avoid using those rubber vac end caps. they all crack. try to get a 90 deg instaed of the T fitting eliminating it .

I replaced that t fitting so the pcv valve runs straight to the carb...

i also want to eliminate that charcoal filter which the other hose from the pcv runs to and there is two fittings coming off the carb one on the bottom right and one on the top middle as seen on the picture on the previous page...

when plugging these what would u reccomend besides rubber plugs?

I replaced that t fitting so the pcv valve runs straight to the carb...

i also want to eliminate that charcoal filter which the other hose from the pcv runs to and there is two fittings coming off the carb one on the bottom right and one on the top middle as seen on the picture on the previous page...

when plugging these what would u reccomend besides rubber plugs?

Keep in mind that if you remove the charcoal filter, you will always have a gasoline smell from the car, most of the time a strong one.

how do after market carbs like edelbrock and holly get away with it?

every motor ive seen "non stock" has these removed....just wondering

how do after market carbs like edelbrock and holly get away with it?

every motor ive seen "non stock" has these removed....just wondering

It has nothing to do with the carb; when I had my '75 Grand Am, it had a Carter AFB carb - and the canister.

The tank has to vent somewhere. The gas cap on your car is designed to prevent a vacuum but also prevent fumes from escaping. The fumes are then redirected through a steel line into the canister under the hood. Also, fumes from the carb float bowl are directed into the canister. This is why you have a purge valve.

If you don't have a canister, those vapors wind up in the atmosphere, and your nearby environment. They have nowhere else to go. The charcoal in the canister stores the vapor and makes it available to the engine when it's started up cold. This also helps the engine to start quicker than without it.

The canister does nothing to rob power from your engine, but does keep your car from smelling. Believe me, fuel vapor smell on a hot day in heavy traffic is the last thing you want. Keep it on there - it doesn't hurt anything, plus it provides a boost to a cold starting engine.

THANKS MAN!! will do

still having the noise from the front of the car and wondering if it could be cv-joint or maybe wheel bearings? any thought silicon or jcat??? i poked away on the internet and some symptoms of my popping and clicking sound like they could be realted

It won't be CV joints as your car has none.

There was an attempt at using a type of CV joint called a "double Cardan joint" in the early-mid 70s, but it was only on one side (the differential) of the driveshaft and was abandoned with the '77 redesign.

Wheel bearings, not likely. If it were a wheel bearing, you'd know it. You'd be able to feel it in the steering wheel, likely you could hear it, and it would cause a pull. Don't know if it would cause a clunk.

A worn ball joint can clunk, the sway bar bushings can clunk, and the idler arm can clunk. Is there any play in the steering wheel at all?

Still worth a look into those body mounts.

i have noticed more vibration at the steering wheel as of lately but not a huge amount...

i have to assume the ball joints are good because they are all new...

i pulled the sway bar off and re did all the bushings but maybe i should pull the hwole thing off and see if it changes any thing with that noise....

whats the idler arm? i redid all tie rods too so those should be good...

ALso with the body mounts... to me the sound is resinating from the wheel well and i think i remember u telling me the body mounts were underneathe the radiator....

all input appreciated thanks!

i have noticed more vibration at the steering wheel as of lately but not a huge amount...

i have to assume the ball joints are good because they are all new...

i pulled the sway bar off and re did all the bushings but maybe i should pull the hwole thing off and see if it changes any thing with that noise....

whats the idler arm? i redid all tie rods too so those should be good...

ALso with the body mounts... to me the sound is resinating from the wheel well and i think i remember u telling me the body mounts were underneathe the radiator....

all input appreciated thanks!

Here is a quick video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcl-vRsMHYM) that answers a couple of your questions. The core support body mounts aren't under the radiator, but above the frame on either side of the core support. The one on the driver side is accessible right in front of the charcoal canister. The passenger side one is under the battery tray, and with years of rust good luck getting that off!

thanks for reply...

here is a video of my car parked going over a few things u mentioned...

the second video is of the car moving and u can here the noise...there is a second noise which im not worried about its just the breaks squeeking from not being warm or something...but the second video u here the clunk or clicking noise...my buddy seems to think its coming from the wheel well but also seems to come from under the car...

also i called the shop and they said that my idler arm was worn and would need to be replaved at some point...maybe a hint as to what it is...i know u mentioned something about that in your previous post...
1st
http://s285.photobucket.com/albums/ll52/tohsiom2121/?
action=view&current=IMG_0658.mp4 (http://s285.photobucket.com/albums/ll52/tohsiom2121/?action=view&current=IMG_0658.mp4)
2nd
http://s285.photobucket.com/albums/ll52/tohsiom2121/?action=view&current=IMG_0658-1.mp4

sorry the second video was part of the first video i had to make it two videos to fit...
here is the third video which shows the car rolling ignore the high pitched squeke thats just the brakes not warmed up
http://s285.photobucket.com/albums/ll52/tohsiom2121/?action=view&current=IMG_0660.mp4

any thoughts? lol

Are ALL the ball joints new? Are they properly lubricated? How about the control arm bushings, both upper and lower? Have you made sure the spindles for the upper control arm bushings are both securely tight? Have you had or have attempted to perform an alignment on it? You said it had new tie rod ends. Are the shocks tight?

If all the above is new, then idler arm and/or center link might be possibilities. Check to make sure the bolts for the lower control arm bushings are tight. Your body mounts look to be in great shape so I wouldn't worry too much about those.

all new ball joints and all new everything including all the upper and lower controll arm bushings...everything was double checked at the shop and then proper alighnment was done on it....i didnt torque the shocks i just tightened them till they were tight...i will check into that...

im considering ordering both new idle arms since he did say one of them or both needed to be replaced at some point...

all the ball joints came greased but then i put the grease gun on them and filled them...
i didnt lubricate the controll arm bushings??? didnt think u had too

no indication from the videos though huh???? ya it was kinda hard to capture the noise...

and it also throws me off that it doent do it rocking back and fourth or up and down which makes me think its brake related....

thanks for the reply...im just really trying to get to the bottom of it since ive invested the money into the car's suspension i would like it to be perfect lol