HELP: Transmission or Torque Converter Issue?
Yomaster
03-07-2012, 02:47 PM
Hey everyone, bit of an issue with my Silverado and I'm hoping I can get some answers... :frown: My apologies, it's a long read, but please bear with me, it's all relevant.
Last April, I had the transmission go out in my '01 Silverado, and had it rebuilt. They told me the torque converter needed replacing before the repair, and I'm not entirely sure if it was replaced due to some miscommunications. Since having the transmission installed, I always noticed it generally shifting hard from 1st to 2nd. Took it in, mechanics told me it was cool. Over the course of last year, I started to notice a shuddering at about 50mph, and eventually, about a month ago, the lurching started to "move around gears," so it would lurch forward from 2nd to 3rd sometimes, but 1st to 2nd would be ok, then vice versa.
Enter about 2 weeks ago, doing about 70mph on the freeway, and suddenly the car jolts/shudders, RPM's shoot up to 3,000 and post there until I manage to get off the freeway. Once I come to a stop and accelerate again, going past 10mph causes a sound similar to dragging a bunch of tin cans, Optimus Prime transforming :p, and dinner plates rubbing together. :uhoh: I pull over and have it towed home.
At home, putting the car into gear allows it to move forward, but you can obviously hear a ticking noise and a sound like ceramic plates rubbing together. The car seems to have lost reverse, as I put it in gear but it wouldn't move. It sounds like it engages, but you can hear the obvious noises of something wrong. Giving it light throttle merely revved the engine, so I didn't go much beyond that. So, this past weekend, I decided to (carfeully) drive the truck up the driveway and drop the transmission pan. The fluid was bright red, no smell of anything burnt up, etc. However, pics of what we found attached.
So, the question. Is my tranny shot again, or is this a torque converter issue? Obviously, these problems shouldn't be happening with a newly rebuilt transmission, especially those little surprises we found in the pan. :mad::eek7: Thanks in advance, and sorry for the long read! :rolleyes:
Last April, I had the transmission go out in my '01 Silverado, and had it rebuilt. They told me the torque converter needed replacing before the repair, and I'm not entirely sure if it was replaced due to some miscommunications. Since having the transmission installed, I always noticed it generally shifting hard from 1st to 2nd. Took it in, mechanics told me it was cool. Over the course of last year, I started to notice a shuddering at about 50mph, and eventually, about a month ago, the lurching started to "move around gears," so it would lurch forward from 2nd to 3rd sometimes, but 1st to 2nd would be ok, then vice versa.
Enter about 2 weeks ago, doing about 70mph on the freeway, and suddenly the car jolts/shudders, RPM's shoot up to 3,000 and post there until I manage to get off the freeway. Once I come to a stop and accelerate again, going past 10mph causes a sound similar to dragging a bunch of tin cans, Optimus Prime transforming :p, and dinner plates rubbing together. :uhoh: I pull over and have it towed home.
At home, putting the car into gear allows it to move forward, but you can obviously hear a ticking noise and a sound like ceramic plates rubbing together. The car seems to have lost reverse, as I put it in gear but it wouldn't move. It sounds like it engages, but you can hear the obvious noises of something wrong. Giving it light throttle merely revved the engine, so I didn't go much beyond that. So, this past weekend, I decided to (carfeully) drive the truck up the driveway and drop the transmission pan. The fluid was bright red, no smell of anything burnt up, etc. However, pics of what we found attached.
So, the question. Is my tranny shot again, or is this a torque converter issue? Obviously, these problems shouldn't be happening with a newly rebuilt transmission, especially those little surprises we found in the pan. :mad::eek7: Thanks in advance, and sorry for the long read! :rolleyes:
j cAT
03-07-2012, 08:51 PM
the pictures appear to indicate the sunshell is gone.
when you get a transmission Rebuilt today you must find out what parts manufacturer they use. also you must get a warrantee and if possible other customers comments about service.
the condition of that amount of metal and the fluid gray color means lots of contamination.
to repair this you will need a another new/or rebuilt torque converter and the whole transmission and fluid flow system cleaned including the fluid tubes in the radiator.
hard shift means slippage. slippage is usually low pressure caused by a failed part. a cracked sunshell causes low pressures,as well as other parts.
when you get a transmission Rebuilt today you must find out what parts manufacturer they use. also you must get a warrantee and if possible other customers comments about service.
the condition of that amount of metal and the fluid gray color means lots of contamination.
to repair this you will need a another new/or rebuilt torque converter and the whole transmission and fluid flow system cleaned including the fluid tubes in the radiator.
hard shift means slippage. slippage is usually low pressure caused by a failed part. a cracked sunshell causes low pressures,as well as other parts.
Yomaster
03-07-2012, 09:16 PM
the pictures appear to indicate the sunshell is gone.
when you get a transmission Rebuilt today you must find out what parts manufacturer they use. also you must get a warrantee and if possible other customers comments about service.
the condition of that amount of metal and the fluid gray color means lots of contamination.
to repair this you will need a another new/or rebuilt torque converter and the whole transmission and fluid flow system cleaned including the fluid tubes in the radiator.
hard shift means slippage. slippage is usually low pressure caused by a failed part. a cracked sunshell causes low pressures,as well as other parts.
Thanks a bunch for the reply and info j cAT!
I had a 6 month warranty on the transmission, but, unfortunately, it's quite beyond that timeframe. I called the shop that did it today and will be taking it in to have it checked out in the near future.
A couple of questions, just for my understanding:
-I thought the same thing when I saw all that silver in there. What exactly is this indicative of? Bad parts? Friction? What do you mean by contamination?
-Are you saying that the transmission is in good condition, other than the sun shell? What about the pics causes you to believe it's the sun shell?
-The hard shifting has been there since the transmission was rebuilt. I even took it back, and the mechanics said it was fine. Perhaps the torque converter was the main culprit all along, and the sun shell is a newer issue? I've heard of bad TC's causing a lot of the symptoms I had...
I ask because I'm not too knowledgeable on transmissions and would like to understand it all a little bit better. Much thanks for the reply and information. It's greatly appreciated!
when you get a transmission Rebuilt today you must find out what parts manufacturer they use. also you must get a warrantee and if possible other customers comments about service.
the condition of that amount of metal and the fluid gray color means lots of contamination.
to repair this you will need a another new/or rebuilt torque converter and the whole transmission and fluid flow system cleaned including the fluid tubes in the radiator.
hard shift means slippage. slippage is usually low pressure caused by a failed part. a cracked sunshell causes low pressures,as well as other parts.
Thanks a bunch for the reply and info j cAT!
I had a 6 month warranty on the transmission, but, unfortunately, it's quite beyond that timeframe. I called the shop that did it today and will be taking it in to have it checked out in the near future.
A couple of questions, just for my understanding:
-I thought the same thing when I saw all that silver in there. What exactly is this indicative of? Bad parts? Friction? What do you mean by contamination?
-Are you saying that the transmission is in good condition, other than the sun shell? What about the pics causes you to believe it's the sun shell?
-The hard shifting has been there since the transmission was rebuilt. I even took it back, and the mechanics said it was fine. Perhaps the torque converter was the main culprit all along, and the sun shell is a newer issue? I've heard of bad TC's causing a lot of the symptoms I had...
I ask because I'm not too knowledgeable on transmissions and would like to understand it all a little bit better. Much thanks for the reply and information. It's greatly appreciated!
j cAT
03-08-2012, 09:19 AM
on a newly repaired transmission the amount of pan material in your vehicle is HUGE .
6 month warr is what I feel is saying cheapo half aZZ job.
how much did you pay for this repair.?
what is the list of bad replaced parts ?
where did who manufactured these parts ?
do not go back and get screwed again !
6 month warr is what I feel is saying cheapo half aZZ job.
how much did you pay for this repair.?
what is the list of bad replaced parts ?
where did who manufactured these parts ?
do not go back and get screwed again !
Yomaster
03-08-2012, 10:42 AM
on a newly repaired transmission the amount of pan material in your vehicle is HUGE .
6 month warr is what I feel is saying cheapo half aZZ job.
how much did you pay for this repair.?
what is the list of bad replaced parts ?
where did who manufactured these parts ?
do not go back and get screwed again !
We thought the same thing. What in the picture indicates it's the sunshell, though? The pieces?
Total price paid for rebuild, fluid, and installation was $1,400.
Never got a list of the bad parts, but I was told by another mechanic I had check it out that the clutch burnt out the transmission. ???
I didn't get a list of the replaced parts/manufacturer.
We're probably going to go back to this shop and complain. I doubt we'll be spending and more money at this mechanic's shop.
6 month warr is what I feel is saying cheapo half aZZ job.
how much did you pay for this repair.?
what is the list of bad replaced parts ?
where did who manufactured these parts ?
do not go back and get screwed again !
We thought the same thing. What in the picture indicates it's the sunshell, though? The pieces?
Total price paid for rebuild, fluid, and installation was $1,400.
Never got a list of the bad parts, but I was told by another mechanic I had check it out that the clutch burnt out the transmission. ???
I didn't get a list of the replaced parts/manufacturer.
We're probably going to go back to this shop and complain. I doubt we'll be spending and more money at this mechanic's shop.
j cAT
03-08-2012, 04:24 PM
go to a recommended transmission repair shop . look up reports on the business.
with a transmission repair find out where these replacement parts come from. also the cost to repair depends on whats needed. get a detailed list of what is being replaced.
then and only then can an accurate repair cost be given. I would say you have the worst case cost factor.
the solenoids/valve body and sun shell most likely need replacing. the torque converter should also be replaced along with a though cleaning to remove contaimination thoughout the transmission fluid system.
one year warrantee is minimum. this pretty much insures they do a good job and use quality parts.
fluid should be dexron VI. do not have them use some dexron III or other non approved GM transmission fluid. this 2006 new GM spec fluid costs more. dexron III is no longer an approved GM fluid.........
when you felt the poor shifting after they rebuilt it, that was occuring in the warrantee period, if so I would bitch ! If you have a document showing this you could take them to small claims court since they did nothing to repair the slippage that ended up causing the total failure today.
when you get this repaired post back what was found and how much to fix.
with a transmission repair find out where these replacement parts come from. also the cost to repair depends on whats needed. get a detailed list of what is being replaced.
then and only then can an accurate repair cost be given. I would say you have the worst case cost factor.
the solenoids/valve body and sun shell most likely need replacing. the torque converter should also be replaced along with a though cleaning to remove contaimination thoughout the transmission fluid system.
one year warrantee is minimum. this pretty much insures they do a good job and use quality parts.
fluid should be dexron VI. do not have them use some dexron III or other non approved GM transmission fluid. this 2006 new GM spec fluid costs more. dexron III is no longer an approved GM fluid.........
when you felt the poor shifting after they rebuilt it, that was occuring in the warrantee period, if so I would bitch ! If you have a document showing this you could take them to small claims court since they did nothing to repair the slippage that ended up causing the total failure today.
when you get this repaired post back what was found and how much to fix.
Yomaster
03-08-2012, 05:13 PM
go to a recommended transmission repair shop . look up reports on the business.
with a transmission repair find out where these replacement parts come from. also the cost to repair depends on whats needed. get a detailed list of what is being replaced.
then and only then can an accurate repair cost be given. I would say you have the worst case cost factor.
the solenoids/valve body and sun shell most likely need replacing. the torque converter should also be replaced along with a though cleaning to remove contaimination thoughout the transmission fluid system.
one year warrantee is minimum. this pretty much insures they do a good job and use quality parts.
fluid should be dexron VI. do not have them use some dexron III or other non approved GM transmission fluid. this 2006 new GM spec fluid costs more. dexron III is no longer an approved GM fluid.........
when you felt the poor shifting after they rebuilt it, that was occuring in the warrantee period, if so I would bitch ! If you have a document showing this you could take them to small claims court since they did nothing to repair the slippage that ended up causing the total failure today.
when you get this repaired post back what was found and how much to fix.
Holy hell... I showed a mechanic friend of mine the same pics today, told me the same thing; it's pretty catastrophic, and it shouldn't be this way at all.
Unfortunately, the most documentation I have is the receipt from the job. This shop didn't even repair the transmission, a third party (unknown) did. They just installed it afer it was rebuilt. They didn't give me anything when I took it in to have it looked at. Simply handed me the keys and said, "It's cool. It's just the torque turned all the way up." :eek7::screwy: Whatever the hell that means. I shouldn't have trusted this shop.
I'm taking it to the shop that repaired it and I'm gonna see what they can do. If they'll repair it, I'm gonna tell them to front the bill so I can take it elsewhere. If they're not going to work with me, looks like I'll be making a call to the California BAR. :angryfire
Will, do, BTW. I'll post results and the outcome soon as I get answers. Thanks again, j cAT.
with a transmission repair find out where these replacement parts come from. also the cost to repair depends on whats needed. get a detailed list of what is being replaced.
then and only then can an accurate repair cost be given. I would say you have the worst case cost factor.
the solenoids/valve body and sun shell most likely need replacing. the torque converter should also be replaced along with a though cleaning to remove contaimination thoughout the transmission fluid system.
one year warrantee is minimum. this pretty much insures they do a good job and use quality parts.
fluid should be dexron VI. do not have them use some dexron III or other non approved GM transmission fluid. this 2006 new GM spec fluid costs more. dexron III is no longer an approved GM fluid.........
when you felt the poor shifting after they rebuilt it, that was occuring in the warrantee period, if so I would bitch ! If you have a document showing this you could take them to small claims court since they did nothing to repair the slippage that ended up causing the total failure today.
when you get this repaired post back what was found and how much to fix.
Holy hell... I showed a mechanic friend of mine the same pics today, told me the same thing; it's pretty catastrophic, and it shouldn't be this way at all.
Unfortunately, the most documentation I have is the receipt from the job. This shop didn't even repair the transmission, a third party (unknown) did. They just installed it afer it was rebuilt. They didn't give me anything when I took it in to have it looked at. Simply handed me the keys and said, "It's cool. It's just the torque turned all the way up." :eek7::screwy: Whatever the hell that means. I shouldn't have trusted this shop.
I'm taking it to the shop that repaired it and I'm gonna see what they can do. If they'll repair it, I'm gonna tell them to front the bill so I can take it elsewhere. If they're not going to work with me, looks like I'll be making a call to the California BAR. :angryfire
Will, do, BTW. I'll post results and the outcome soon as I get answers. Thanks again, j cAT.
j cAT
03-08-2012, 07:32 PM
that added info just adds more fuel to the fire of a very poor job.
post back when you get things moving on repair work with this.
post back when you get things moving on repair work with this.
Yomaster
03-14-2012, 05:59 PM
that added info just adds more fuel to the fire of a very poor job.
post back when you get things moving on repair work with this.
Hey, j cAT, just got the report from the mechanics shop today. The whole transmission is completely destroyed. Worse news, we were being mislead the whole time. The transmission WASN'T rebuilt, it was a used, piece of shit transmission with problems from the start.
So I've accepted the fact that this transmission is, indeed, used, but I have another issue at hand: I took the truck in about a month after the job was done to complain about the hard-shifting. It was under warranty at the time.
As I said in an earlier post, they told me that "the torque was turned all the way up" and that "they could go in and turn down the knobs if it bothered me." Not quite sure what THAT means, but it's quite apparent that this transmission was broken from the start. On top of that, they didn't document that I brought it in with an issue. When presented with that fact, the owner of the shop told us, "Well, I don't have that on file."
I was basically fed a heap of bullshit from the start. Without any proof that I took it in after the work was done, what can I do here? :banghead:
post back when you get things moving on repair work with this.
Hey, j cAT, just got the report from the mechanics shop today. The whole transmission is completely destroyed. Worse news, we were being mislead the whole time. The transmission WASN'T rebuilt, it was a used, piece of shit transmission with problems from the start.
So I've accepted the fact that this transmission is, indeed, used, but I have another issue at hand: I took the truck in about a month after the job was done to complain about the hard-shifting. It was under warranty at the time.
As I said in an earlier post, they told me that "the torque was turned all the way up" and that "they could go in and turn down the knobs if it bothered me." Not quite sure what THAT means, but it's quite apparent that this transmission was broken from the start. On top of that, they didn't document that I brought it in with an issue. When presented with that fact, the owner of the shop told us, "Well, I don't have that on file."
I was basically fed a heap of bullshit from the start. Without any proof that I took it in after the work was done, what can I do here? :banghead:
j cAT
03-14-2012, 07:24 PM
see if you can find a replacement from the scrap yard thats in good shape for your year / model . have the lines/radiator fluid cooling cleaned and see how it runs . then have a transmission shop check out the line pressures of the transmission for proper operation. monitor fluid and replace when it gets dark or smells.
only use dexron VI. NO dexron III
if the shifting is off you must correct this quickly or damage occurs .
I would report this repair shop to the better business bureau.
whenever you have a warrantee you must have paper trail. dealership or small time repair shop . this way there are no questions on what was done or when issues occured with improper repairs.
we have all been victims. if they work hard to avoid documentation get out of there fast !
only use dexron VI. NO dexron III
if the shifting is off you must correct this quickly or damage occurs .
I would report this repair shop to the better business bureau.
whenever you have a warrantee you must have paper trail. dealership or small time repair shop . this way there are no questions on what was done or when issues occured with improper repairs.
we have all been victims. if they work hard to avoid documentation get out of there fast !
Yomaster
03-14-2012, 08:38 PM
see if you can find a replacement from the scrap yard thats in good shape for your year / model . have the lines/radiator fluid cooling cleaned and see how it runs . then have a transmission shop check out the line pressures of the transmission for proper operation. monitor fluid and replace when it gets dark or smells.
only use dexron VI. NO dexron III
if the shifting is off you must correct this quickly or damage occurs .
I would report this repair shop to the better business bureau.
whenever you have a warrantee you must have paper trail. dealership or small time repair shop . this way there are no questions on what was done or when issues occured with improper repairs.
we have all been victims. if they work hard to avoid documentation get out of there fast !
Will do. That seems like a good option at this point. They quoted me $2,200 for a rebuilt tranny. Personally, I can't afford it.
I just went in to pick up the truck and talk to them personally. They told me that the forward gears are fine; the reverse sun gear went out and thrashed the transmission, requiring a rebuild. Good call! Do these things simply blow out when you're going forward? I never threw that transmission into gear from reverse until it was completely stopped.
I confronted them on the issue of the hard-shifting, and they told me it was a non-issue when I brought it in (he suddenly remembered me). I told them I dropped the pan and found loads of shavings and chunks. The owner told me that if I had dropped the pan, found the shavings, and brought it in when it was under warranty, it would've been fixed. I then asked them what they did to make sure the transmission was ok back then, and they told me they just drove it. Shouldn't a good mechanic drop the pan to make sure everything is in good shape, especially on a used tranny he just sold? TOTAL bullshit.
At the end of it all, I paid $1,400 for a used transmission that lasted me less than 6,000 miles, and they told me there was nothing they could do for me. The owner told me that they could discount me for the labor, but I'm never going to return to this shop again.
Again, much thanks for your help, j cAT.
only use dexron VI. NO dexron III
if the shifting is off you must correct this quickly or damage occurs .
I would report this repair shop to the better business bureau.
whenever you have a warrantee you must have paper trail. dealership or small time repair shop . this way there are no questions on what was done or when issues occured with improper repairs.
we have all been victims. if they work hard to avoid documentation get out of there fast !
Will do. That seems like a good option at this point. They quoted me $2,200 for a rebuilt tranny. Personally, I can't afford it.
I just went in to pick up the truck and talk to them personally. They told me that the forward gears are fine; the reverse sun gear went out and thrashed the transmission, requiring a rebuild. Good call! Do these things simply blow out when you're going forward? I never threw that transmission into gear from reverse until it was completely stopped.
I confronted them on the issue of the hard-shifting, and they told me it was a non-issue when I brought it in (he suddenly remembered me). I told them I dropped the pan and found loads of shavings and chunks. The owner told me that if I had dropped the pan, found the shavings, and brought it in when it was under warranty, it would've been fixed. I then asked them what they did to make sure the transmission was ok back then, and they told me they just drove it. Shouldn't a good mechanic drop the pan to make sure everything is in good shape, especially on a used tranny he just sold? TOTAL bullshit.
At the end of it all, I paid $1,400 for a used transmission that lasted me less than 6,000 miles, and they told me there was nothing they could do for me. The owner told me that they could discount me for the labor, but I'm never going to return to this shop again.
Again, much thanks for your help, j cAT.
Yomaster
05-12-2012, 07:55 PM
that added info just adds more fuel to the fire of a very poor job.
post back when you get things moving on repair work with this.
Hey j cAT, I believe I made you a promise a few months back... :smile:
I ended up removing the transmission myself and taking it to a reputable transmission shop in the town I live in. They rebuilt it, gave me a new TC, and gave me a 2-year warranty for $1,200 flat. Good deal!
I picked up the rebuilt transmission last week, and put it in today. Runs GREAT! :cool:
Anyways, the mechanic who rebuilt my transmission invited me into the shop and showed me the destroyed sun shell and reverse sun gear that caused my transmission to blow. The splines on the sun shell had stripped off and were close to bare. The reverse sun gear was shredded. Good call on your part! :bigthumb:
I'll be taking the truck in to the same shop on Monday to have the pressures checked, etc.
Just thought I'd let you know. Thanks again for your help! :biggrin:
post back when you get things moving on repair work with this.
Hey j cAT, I believe I made you a promise a few months back... :smile:
I ended up removing the transmission myself and taking it to a reputable transmission shop in the town I live in. They rebuilt it, gave me a new TC, and gave me a 2-year warranty for $1,200 flat. Good deal!
I picked up the rebuilt transmission last week, and put it in today. Runs GREAT! :cool:
Anyways, the mechanic who rebuilt my transmission invited me into the shop and showed me the destroyed sun shell and reverse sun gear that caused my transmission to blow. The splines on the sun shell had stripped off and were close to bare. The reverse sun gear was shredded. Good call on your part! :bigthumb:
I'll be taking the truck in to the same shop on Monday to have the pressures checked, etc.
Just thought I'd let you know. Thanks again for your help! :biggrin:
j cAT
05-13-2012, 09:48 AM
Hey j cAT, I believe I made you a promise a few months back... :smile:
I ended up removing the transmission myself and taking it to a reputable transmission shop in the town I live in. They rebuilt it, gave me a new TC, and gave me a 2-year warranty for $1,200 flat. Good deal!
I picked up the rebuilt transmission last week, and put it in today. Runs GREAT! :cool:
Anyways, the mechanic who rebuilt my transmission invited me into the shop and showed me the destroyed sun shell and reverse sun gear that caused my transmission to blow. The splines on the sun shell had stripped off and were close to bare. The reverse sun gear was shredded. Good call on your part! :bigthumb:
I'll be taking the truck in to the same shop on Monday to have the pressures checked, etc.
Just thought I'd let you know. Thanks again for your help! :biggrin:
thanks for the feedback with your transmission repair . this is a problem with some repair shops screwing vehicle owners. the shop you have chosen appears to be a good one. 2 yr warrantee and follow up checks. a knowledgeable tech doing the pressure tests will know if the repair was done correctly .
with the rebuid , a complete fluid change is a good idea after 10,ooomi. this will remove any debris created from the old unit . or any new clutch materials. use the new dexronVI fluid not dexron III.
good luck with it .
I ended up removing the transmission myself and taking it to a reputable transmission shop in the town I live in. They rebuilt it, gave me a new TC, and gave me a 2-year warranty for $1,200 flat. Good deal!
I picked up the rebuilt transmission last week, and put it in today. Runs GREAT! :cool:
Anyways, the mechanic who rebuilt my transmission invited me into the shop and showed me the destroyed sun shell and reverse sun gear that caused my transmission to blow. The splines on the sun shell had stripped off and were close to bare. The reverse sun gear was shredded. Good call on your part! :bigthumb:
I'll be taking the truck in to the same shop on Monday to have the pressures checked, etc.
Just thought I'd let you know. Thanks again for your help! :biggrin:
thanks for the feedback with your transmission repair . this is a problem with some repair shops screwing vehicle owners. the shop you have chosen appears to be a good one. 2 yr warrantee and follow up checks. a knowledgeable tech doing the pressure tests will know if the repair was done correctly .
with the rebuid , a complete fluid change is a good idea after 10,ooomi. this will remove any debris created from the old unit . or any new clutch materials. use the new dexronVI fluid not dexron III.
good luck with it .
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