Fuel leak questions 2000

So I brought my 2000 in for a thermostat. (didn't do it). They found a fuel leak. It's not really a leak but it is weeping. I suspect it will let go soon.
See the pix here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/103956146819641847893/VentureFuelLineLeak?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCL-t0MOXlfDikAE&feat=directlink

There is a front to back series here.

https://picasaweb.google.com/103956146819641847893/FuelLineFrontToBackSeries?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCNX5yrPvt8eekwE&feat=directlink

They tried to get 2 fuel lines (#6 & #8 on the diagram) at the dealer and were told they've been discontinued. They are the lines that run from the engine down to just under the drivers door. On this diagram, I am not sure if they are 3, 10 & 11 or 6, 8 & 10. I should probably replace all of them but I think it would be over $1400.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/qHcpocCrVT7ewSorNQkb680zE0ZQR1KW2B6QVFgLIao?feat=d irectlink

I saw a couple of Dorman fuel line repair kits, but I am not sure they would work here. It's the steel parts that are rotted. Here's one. The 90 degree. http://www.jegs.com/i/Dorman/326/800-059/10002/-1?CT=999

Do I junk the car when it lets go? I love my Venture.. But it is getting on in the years. Trans has a minor TCC issue. LIM is leaking (again) externally. It needs a Thermostat.

I can live with the rest of the issue, but if the fuel line lets go.!.!.!.! Thoughts, comments suggestions?

Thanks.

Sorry to say this, but your fuel lines are a nightmare, from the looks of it.....

Taking into account, that you have other potential problems with the tranny, lower intake gaskets, thermostat, etc., and the value of it is just a little over $2000, if you could get that in it's present condition.....

I think the money would be well spent on a down payment for another vehicle than to repair this.....

In your pictures, the grey "what is this" is your fuel filter....

Also, I work in the northeast, and this is typical of roads that are salted in the winter.....that salt eats the underside of your vehicle, in this case the fuel lines and the under body....you did not show the brake lines, but I am sure they are in the same condition......so your brake or fuel lines could go at any time....add your other problems, and it's just not worth it......

Where your leak is, is not the lines itself, but the part coming out of the tank.....I can tell you this, when you start to work on these lines, it creates a "domino effect"......moving a line over here, creates a problem over there......your other lines that are rusted, are just as bad.....

My advice, try and trade it in as soon as possible.....

Tech, Thanks for the reply. Yes your assessment is pretty accurate. Except I don't think those lines (steel) are from the tank. I think they run up to the engine. I was hoping the Dorman part I posted the link for, would be able to be used to fix the lines. I already did some repairs (replaced) the rear brake lines. I repaired the trans lines that run to the radiator. And now I've repaired the PS line,

It's really too bad because the car is dependable. I bought it new, and it has only let me down on the road once. The fuel pump went at about 42k miles. (150k on it now). Averages 23.4 mpg.

Re the LIM gasket. It leaks externally so there is no oil contamination. It leaks about 2-3 cups per month. I can live with keeping tabs on it and adding coolant once in a while.

Re the thermostat. It is stuck partially or all open. Car has plenty of cabin heat, but ECT only gets to about 180 in cold weather. Car never ever overheats.

Re trans. In warmer weather it throws a p0742 (TCC stuck high) every couple of months. Sometimes you can feel it lock/unlock before it lights the MIL. Stays lit for a day or so. Car has never been a problem with inspection.

Everything on/in the car works great.

The bad part is that as of 2006 it has been a salvage vehicle. We had a hail storm and there are 100 or so marble size pock marks all over the body. The insurance company totaled it, and we bought it back from them.

So between its condition and the salvage title, its worth is questionable to others. It would be hard to sell. Yet the value to me is great because I know the complete history of the vehicle and it IS a dependable vehicle. If I could just get the fuel lines fixed for a reasonable price, and get another year or two out of it. A year ago I did shocks and struts, strut bearings, tie rod ends, front stabilizer, one front wheel bearing, control arms, ball joints, exhaust and control arm bushings.

I'll keep you posted on what I do. For now I am going to look for another vehicle, and at the same time, continue to drive it (knowing it is a ticking time bomb and may die at any time) until it dies. I won't go very far from home or use it to catch a flight though.

Thanks...

Anyone else have any suggs for the fuel lines?

that a fuel filter (thats the grey thing in the fuel line) http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1358861,parttype,6200 I would change the thermostat and maybe the rad cap. then spray the rusted fuel lines with a good coat of oil. the keep a eye on the fuel weep. then drive on but keep a eye on it. Let say it did go south on you try a dorman repair kit. if it works good if not trade in on the cash for clunkers program http://www.gm.ca/gm/english/corporate/offers/cashforclunkers/overview that up to $3000 in your pocket. on a straight trade in the van is well lets say pocket change in the dealers eye.

Well I'm still in a quandary. If I could get the 2 or 3 fuel lines replaced (even in an "unconventional" manner. I'd be good for another few years, and a few thousand miles. I would be in a better financial place to buy another vehicle. And by unconventional, I mean, SOMEHOW finding some good "meat" at both ends, and cutting the lines, and either using a Dorman kit with 12 feet of hard nylon line just zip tied down the whole length of the frame, or just using 12 feet of rubber hi pressure hose, flaring the "meat" slightly, and using good quality fuel injection hose clamps.

I took the car to a friend of mine that runs a European auto repair place. He took a look at it, and declined to take the job (he's a smart guy). He said if there were more room to work at each end, he would probably make the attempt.

TechII, I respect your opinion,l and appreciate your help, but I am really hoping to get this fixed. I stopped my the Chevy dealer today and the guy (kid) writing service didn't know his ass from his elbow. He asked me if I was SURE the Venture was a Chevrolet and not a Chrysler. He looked up the parts and also found the first two were discontinued. He did say that for a $50 diagnostic fee, he could have a tech look at it, and tell me if they thought they could fix it by " making" the fuel line assemblies. He said the $50 would be put towards the job if I had them do it. But if they couldn't do it, I would eat the $50. I'm not that concerned about the $50. He also said the book quoted 3.2 hours of labor @ $89/hour to replace the supply and return lines.

That is only if they swap parts. It does not include custom bending the parts. If this is my only solution I may just try it.

TechII you're in Worcester. I am in southern NH. Do you know anybody down your way, or in between that might be willing to take this on?

Thanks again for all the help folks.

Well I'm still in a quandary. If I could get the 2 or 3 fuel lines replaced (even in an "unconventional" manner. I'd be good for another few years, and a few thousand miles. I would be in a better financial place to buy another vehicle. And by unconventional, I mean, SOMEHOW finding some good "meat" at both ends, and cutting the lines, and either using a Dorman kit with 12 feet of hard nylon line just zip tied down the whole length of the frame, or just using 12 feet of rubber hi pressure hose, flaring the "meat" slightly, and using good quality fuel injection hose clamps.

I took the car to a friend of mine that runs a European auto repair place. He took a look at it, and declined to take the job (he's a smart guy). He said if there were more room to work at each end, he would probably make the attempt.

TechII, I respect your opinion,l and appreciate your help, but I am really hoping to get this fixed. I stopped my the Chevy dealer today and the guy (kid) writing service didn't know his ass from his elbow. He asked me if I was SURE the Venture was a Chevrolet and not a Chrysler. He looked up the parts and also found the first two were discontinued. He did say that for a $50 diagnostic fee, he could have a tech look at it, and tell me if they thought they could fix it by " making" the fuel line assemblies. He said the $50 would be put towards the job if I had them do it. But if they couldn't do it, I would eat the $50. I'm not that concerned about the $50. He also said the book quoted 3.2 hours of labor @ $89/hour to replace the supply and return lines.

That is only if they swap parts. It does not include custom bending the parts. If this is my only solution I may just try it.

TechII you're in Worcester. I am in southern NH. Do you know anybody down your way, or in between that might be willing to take this on?

Thanks again for all the help folks.
Have you thought of, or tried a local junk yard to see if there is another vehicle with better conditions underneath? Junk yards are great places to learn how things come apart without worrying about breaking anything. Also, keep an eye open for craig's list to see if anyone is parting out their similar vehicle. I agree with your desire to keep her running.

Gee, I just went over to this website:

http://www.gmpartsgiant.com/Page_Product/PartDetail.aspx?modelYear=2000&model=Venture&make=Chevrolet&catalogCode=18U&subModel=APV&majorIndexID=03&isBigPicture=False&ddlSm=APV&minorIndexID=MU0304201

And it looks like this stuff is still orderable. What do you think? Click on "Get Info".

Update: The type of part this is, is not well suited for a junkyard replacement. Most of the ones available are equally or more rotted.

VIA the grapevine, I found a good independent mechanic that is confident, and not afraid to tackle this job. He has done this job on ventures a couple of times before. He is known around town for doing a lot of custom work and fabrication.

He was concerned that the "cancer" may go all the way back to the tank sending unit. He put the van up on a lift, had a look-see and said that he found some good "meat" well before the sending unit and that the lines into it were fine. I am taking it in next month and he is going to replace the lines front to back. He *may* do the evap line as well, though I am not as concerned about that one.

He also said the "fuel pressure regulator" was moist. Is that something I can do or is there a complicated procedure for replacing it.?

Thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate it.

P.../NH

The lines in my 2000 are rusted a bit too, but not like that!

I just painted them with some rustoleum.

Thanks for the oil tip.....I;m going to hit the connectors with some motor oil or silicone as I can't paint under the clips and I don't have the courage to take them apart!

Let us know what happens!

That's a job that would require "several" estimates, because you give a low bid just for one part, BUT, if the line connected to what you replace breaks while working on the other part, it's a domino effect, like I said.....

Most shops don't like to jury rig, because if you end up with a fuel fire, they become liable....most places I've known, when they tackle this type of job will end up calling you back, saying they also have to replace this, and so on, and so on.....

Since you work/live in southern NH, you have salt on the roads there too.....wreaks havoc on the undersides of northeast cars....

As for the fuel pressure regulator, believe that is a 3.4.....not too hard to replace......just have to free up the return line and not pinch the o-ring on intallation....

Update #2,

I had the mechanic I spoke of earlier, in the post do the fuel lines several weeks ago. It was about $160. My instructions to him were: "It needs to be safe and reliable. I don't care about looks". He did the supply line from just outside the tank and changed the filter as well (to match fittings. it was due anyway). He said after a bit of manipulating the return line, he felt it was in pretty good shape and didn't need to be done now. I've put about 900 miles on so far, and no leaks. Looks good. (So far).

So that saga is put to bed for now...

Paul.../NH