'00 GLS hard starting

Hey all,
My wife's Intrigue has had a hard starting/rough idle/rough start issue for a little bit now. On a hunch this weekend I decided to clean out her throttle body. Turns out it was more full of soot than a chimney in February. Nasty black carbon buildup. Took a toothbrush and some throttle body cleaner and scrubbed it out best I could. Car runs great now, very smooth and responsive. Gas pedal use to stick, even fixed that. So I'm a hero, until we realize that her car is still starting hard. Turn the key and the engine turns over no problem, starter sounds good. Once the engine is running it purrs like a kitten. But sometimes you have to crank it for several seconds before it fires up. Any ideas?

Pretty classic behavior of a bad crankshaft position sensor.

If you search the forum, most all threads regarding a bad crankshaft position sensor have a pretty similar description.

What makes it difficult though is the sensor doesnt always throw a code when it goes bad, making the check engine light come on. Several people have replaced them on a hunch and had their problem go away.

I replaced mine not too long ago, but I was getting repeated check engine lights within days of it first exhibiting symptoms.

There are other things that can cause it, but that would be where Id start since its such a common issue.

If you search the forum, most all threads regarding a bad crankshaft position sensor have a pretty similar description.
Yeah I saw several like that. I'll try that first and repost with the results. I have a friend who is a mechanic, so maybe he has a scan tool I can use if I need to do the re-learn thing. Thanks!

Another possibility/suggestion - a few years ago my 2000 started taking about 5 seconds to start. This showed up mostly with a still-warm engine that had been shut off for a while. Starting remained pretty good with either a cold engine, or with immediately re-starting a warm engine that had just been shut off.
The problem was the fuel pressure regulator (FPR). The FPR showed the classic symptom of having fuel in its vacuum line.

That doesn't sound as likely to me, it doesn't seem to matter how warm the engine is. If I were to judge though, I would say it starts better when warm. I'll check that if the CPS doesn't fix it.

As he said though, a classic sign of a bad FPR is fuel in the vacuum line that runs to it, thats something thats very easy to check, and to check multiple times, especially if you keep the cosmetic engine cover off while your out and about. Its fairly easy to access the vacuum line, and requires no tools but the ones God gave ya!

As he said though, a classic sign of a bad FPR is fuel in the vacuum line that runs to it, thats something thats very easy to check, and to check multiple times, especially if you keep the cosmetic engine cover off while your out and about. Its fairly easy to access the vacuum line, and requires no tools but the ones God gave ya!

Just pulled out my Chilton's... hard to decipher with the limited illustrations, but I think I recognize where it is. I'll pop the cover off and check it, should I run the engine for a bit before I check it? I know zero about FPRs beyond what I just read in the book, will the engine die if I pull the vacuum line while it is running?

I've always checked it out with the engine off, and on a cold engine, warm engine, somewhere in the middle, all of the above.

I've never had one go bad, so I can't say what temperature to check is best, I just know what to look for.

The FPR is located on the fuel-rail, toward the right-side of the engine as memory serves. The "fuel rail" is basically the metallic lines that run to each cylinder. If you follow that rail back to where it begins you should see the FPR.


Looks like this:
http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imageurl=http%3A%2F%2Finfo.rockauto.c om%2FAirtex%2F5G1016.jpg&imagekey=935077-0&width=450

CKP -crankshaft position sensor
CPS -camshaft position sensor

both tend to fail at least once. CPS is cheaper at $40 and takes 10 minutes to replace.

I will put my money on the CPS. Review this forum and see what symptoms match up better.

Did the CKP, helped for a day or so then back to same old same old. The job was easier than I thought, just a little tricky to get the starter out but that wasn't too bad. All in all it was a fun one, got a real good look at my manifold gasket leak (at least I assume that's where all that oil is coming from)! Will try the CPS in the near future, hopefully have better results. Will a bad sensor have some kind of discoloration or something so I know it is bad?

Good or bad look the same. Part #s do get updated.

CPS is alot easier -about the easiest thing to replace on a Intrigue. My hazard relay (flasher) circuit I could probably replace in <1 minute since my center vent tabs are 1/2 broke, but originally that repair would have meant taking out the dash. My microfiche manual hinted at taking out the vent instead.

When you do not get and OBD2 scanner code you need to take a guess sometimes. Within 3-5yrs of having an Intrigue one of those CKP or CPS sensors usually fail. At the age of your car most have already failed.

Still have my money on the CPS.

Well for crying out loud, it sure took me long enough to get around to that job. Finally did it last night, took me maybe 15-20 mins, and most of that was trying to figure out how to move the coolant recovery tank around so it would stay out of the way. Very easy job though. The only thing easier that I've done is replace the external thermometer in front of the radiator, and at least with this I didn't have to lay down on the dirty garage floor. I also got a good look at my wonderful oil-sucking manifold gasket leak. At least I think that's what it is. I'm still going to wait a few days to make the official call on whether the car is fixed or not, the check engine light was still on when I finished but maybe I just need to get the code cleared.

Before you clear it, which ODB code is actually being set?

Don't know, it just started doing it the other day (and my wife didn't tell me that until after I changed it). I don't have a code checker, so I'll repost when I find out. Hopefully I didn't just waste the $60 (plus the other $$$ for the crankshafter sensor earlier).

Hello all. Sorry to revive an old topic. I've been having problems with my 2002 Intrigue not starting, mostly after driving around town, turning the car off for a little while then it takes five minutes to start. From what I've read this is likely the camshaft sensor. I've been trying to locate the sensor on my car but so far I can't seem to find it (I feel real dumb about this) I did see a sensor sticking out right by the windshield washer reservoir, is this the camshaft sensor? If it is how am I supposed to replace it without losing all my washer fluid?

Are you looking for the camshaft sensor? or the crankshaft sensor? They are two different things, and two different places, but both can cause hard starting.

The crankshaft sensor is a pretty common cause of hard starting, but it is best accessed from underneath the car, and by removing the starter....I honestly dont recall where the camshaft sensor is, Ive never had to replace it...but I do believe it on the passenger side of the engine...and toward the back, probably near the rear camshafts cover.

Are you looking for the camshaft sensor? or the crankshaft sensor? They are two different things, and two different places, but both can cause hard starting.

The crankshaft sensor is a pretty common cause of hard starting, but it is best accessed from underneath the car, and by removing the starter....I honestly dont recall where the camshaft sensor is, Ive never had to replace it...but I do believe it on the passenger side of the engine...and toward the back, probably near the rear camshafts cover.

It's the camshaft sensor. And that's where I'm thinking it is as well. So now my question is what is the easiest way of getting to it? The washer fluid reservoir and all the hoses are right there in the way.

It's the camshaft sensor. And that's where I'm thinking it is as well. So now my question is what is the easiest way of getting to it? The washer fluid reservoir and all the hoses are right there in the way.

not sure if this helps... but towards the end someone mentions a 3.5l intrigue and the coolant overflow

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=228007

First off let me say that im simply going off memory...

i think youre right about the location, but thats the coolant reservoir, not washer fluid, if youre putting washer fluid in there...hard starting is the least of your worries haha.

but, the coolant reservoir is easy to move out of your way, its held in place by two small nuts, then it should lift out of the way. disconnecting the hoses from it isnt absolutely necessary, but should make things easier, you will lose coolant though if you do.

again, im just going off memory, ill take a look under my hood later for ya.

Thank you both for the help. I'm sure you're right about it being the coolant, LittleHoov. I don't know my way around this car, obviously. I had the two bolts off earlier but you're very limited on how far the reservoir can move with just the bolts removed. I removed the hoses and then found it didn't help much because of the sensor plugged into the bottom of the reservoir. I"m guessing if I remove this sensor all the coolant will pour out. At this point it was getting dark and cold so I put it all back together. Also when I removed the overflow hose from the reservoir it just fell to the ground. Is this not supposed to go back into the reservoir?

Thank you both for the help. I'm sure you're right about it being the coolant, LittleHoov. I don't know my way around this car, obviously. I had the two bolts off earlier but you're very limited on how far the reservoir can move with just the bolts removed. I removed the hoses and then found it didn't help much because of the sensor plugged into the bottom of the reservoir. I"m guessing if I remove this sensor all the coolant will pour out. At this point it was getting dark and cold so I put it all back together. Also when I removed the overflow hose from the reservoir it just fell to the ground. Is this not supposed to go back into the reservoir?

If it is like my '00, I just took the bolts out of the reservoir and moved it forward a bit until I could see the sensor sticking out of the side of the engine. There is a wire sticking out of it, you can't miss it once you move that reservoir. Then it is one bolt out, take out the old sensor, put in the new sensor (might be a good idea to clean the hole that it plugs into with a clean shop towel or something), bolt it in and plug it in. Once you move that reservoir you're done in 5 minutes.

Ok, I went out at refreshed myself, thankfully I havent had to work on my car in a while, so I was getting a little fuzzy.


There are 3 hoses that connect to the coolant overflow bottle.

There is the small rubber hose maybe 4 inches long that comes out of a metal hard line from the engine, this hose connects toward the top/back of the reservoir.

Then there is the biggest of the 3 hoses, that runs about dead center out of the reservoir and connects to the thermostat housing.

Also the overflow hose which runs out of the top, takes a sharp 90 degree turn and then points straight down and connects to, as you mentioned sandman, it connects to nothing. If you have too much coolant, it lets the excess escape the system by pouring out on the ground. Kind of strange, but many vehicles have a very similar setup.

Now then, to get to that sensor, you will need to remove the 2 small nuts at the top of the reservoir, and then get some pliers and remove the clamp on the small hose that comes off the metal line. The first one I mentioned, just slide the clamp back far enough to where you can get the hose removed. It will leak a little bit no matter what in my experience but if you can keep the exposed tip pointed upwards it will help a little. Also if you do the repair on a level surface it will help. A third little trick you might try is finding something non-harmful that will fit tightly in that hose....I think you average round Bic pen fits in there just fine.


Now then, this is where opinions might start to differ, if it was me, Id pull up and out on the reservoir while leaving the main hose connected. Yes it will kink it slightly while youre working on it, but it should return back to normal with no issues, especially since you wont be in there long.

As for the wiring to the coolant level sensor, you should be able to disconnect the wiring harness from the sensor. Dont remove the sensor from the reservoir, or as you stated, you will have a mess.

With that small hose and electrical connection disconnected you can basically either set the reservoir on the battery/fusebox area, or on top of your engine cover, whichever seems easier to you. You CAN absolutely disconnect the hose to the thermostat if you want, but to me its just more mess and more trouble, it wont hurt that hose to be bent for 5-10 minutes. If it DOES hurt that hose, it needed to be replaced anyway :naughty:

Other than that it sounds like you know where the sensor is, it will be staring you in the fact once you remove that coolant bottle. Its held in by one screw, shouldnt be tight at all. Just disconnect the wiring harness. Then remove the old one by whatever means necessary. Probably grab, twist, and pull. Don't "hulk out" on it too much though, because the plastic parts could very well be brittle, and break off, making a simple project a big pain.

Sorry for the long-winded post, I was trying to be thorough and paint you a word picture haha.

Thank you so much LittleHoov. This is just the kind of detailed explanation I was looking for. No need to apologize for being "long-winded". Now if only my wife wasn't out driving the car and it wasn't 25 degree's outside I could get this done. This car is so different from my Dodge truck. Thanks again!

Finally a nice sunny day. Not ready to say it's fixed yet but so far so good. Putting in the new camshaft sensor took 10 minutes tops thanks to some detailed instructions from LittleHoov. Hopefully this is the end of this cars problems for a while.

It's been a while since I posted to this thread, but I went ahead and got both the cam and crankshaft sensors changed, to no effect. Check engine light comes on sporadically, throws a P0101 mass air flow sensor code, which I then pulled and cleaned, also changed the air filter. The only thing I noticed there was that the mesh in front of the sensor had a slight dent in it, like maybe some fat-fingered mechanic shoved his fingernail into it accidentally or something, don't know if that is enough to cause the hard starting issue, or really any issue. The car routinely starts hard, requires cranking up to about 5 seconds and sometimes dies the first time it starts. I recently realized also that I have never had a fuel injection system cleaning done, only occasionally used STP or something similar. Anybody know if that could cause the hard starting? I don't want to keep pumping cash into this thing if it won't fix it. Probably going to sell sometime next year anyway, so if anybody is near southern Indiana looking for one of these to work on, let me know!

Did you ever look into the fuel pressure regulator. Look into goofy ignition switch issues also. When were the spark plugs changed?

At the worst case you can take it to GM and have a Tech2 scan done. $100-200

The only thing I knew to check on the FPR was the vacuum hose, and that looked fine. I don't think it would be the ignition switch because it cranks just fine, just takes a few extra seconds for the engine to fire.

Changing the cam sensor didn't fix my problem either. Guess I will try the crank sensor next and hope that works. The car was showing a service engine light the other day so will probably take it a parts store and have them hook up the scanner.

Sandman I just posted a How-To on an engine mount, which contains a section on removing the starter. You will need to at least partially remove the starter to replace your crank sensor. Technically its not necessary to remove it entirely, but to me its easier, and you dont have the starter hanging from wires while youre trying to work in the area.

A set of ramps will make your life much easier in replacing that sensor.

I outlined removed the starter in this post, down toward the bottom.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1076561

Its actually pretty straightforward.

Thanks again for the detailed walkthrough LittleHoov. I don't have ramps or stands or even a jack. So not too sure how I will accomplish this task.

Well, if you're going to make a habit of working on your vehicle(s) those are all great tools to have around, and universal to pretty much any passenger vehicle.

A set of ramps runs about $50, and anymore they are made from plastic, which is eery at first, but Ive used mine several times and never had a doubt as to their strength. Being they are plastic they should last longer than you haha. Provided you dont store them in the sun, or they dont get damaged, etc.

You can pick up a basic floor jack fairly cheap, and jackstands are typically even cheaper. I know Wal-Mart used to sell a 2-ton floor jack and 2 jack-stands as a set that was around 40-50 dollars, thats what I purchased a few years back.

Think of it this way, the price of a set of ramps is about what you would pay a mechanic in labor charges for changing that sensor. In fact the mechanic might even be more expensive. You would have to pay for the part either way. This is an excellent point to bring up to a significant other, if thats an issue haha.

For a project like this, Id go with ramps over the jack and jackstands. To me the chances of jackstands failing, though very slim, are greater than the ramps, and given that this project will have you spending a fair amount of time with your head, chest, vital organs, etc underneath the car...well, Id go with the ramps :)

We took the car to Autozone the other day to find out what was tripping the service engine light. Came up as the crankshaft sensor. The sensor and ramps will cost a little over $100. Called dealership for repair cost, $487! Yeah, I'll be doing this one myself.

I got some ramps and changed the crankshaft sensor this morning. Was reminded to disconnect the battery by the sparks that came off the starter when I started moving it around. And quickly found that my plan to rest the starter on some sort of platform so I wouldn't have to disconnect the wires would not work. Starter has to be completely out of the way to gain access to the crank sensor. Luckily the bolt holding the sensor is not torqued cause I was not able to get a good bite with the socket, maybe a wrench would be easier but the socket did the job. Took maybe an hour but if I were to do it again would probably take half that since I now know what I'm doing. So far so good, no service engine light and test drive went good. Now the wife is out doing errands in it.

Glad you got 'er done man. I must admit I had a good chuckle at your reminder to disconnect the battery, but it really isn't a laughing matter. Could have been very bad. I bet you'll remember next time for sure haha.

I honestly don't remember what I used to take loose the bolt on that sensor, so I can't help future generations.

If that sensor was far enough gone to be throwing a code, I would say your problem is fixed.

Yeah, it was funny in a way but also not funny cause it was so close to my face. Was a pretty bright flash too and my eyes were WIDE open when it sparked lol. It's been a day and a half and so far no issues.

I must again bring this thread back from the dead to thank LittleHoov again. Today I changed out the front lower motor mount and your guide walked me through it better than any YouTube video.