Looking for a better exhaust header ('97 Camry 5S-FE)
gtchamp7
09-01-2011, 10:03 AM
My Camry is almost completely stock right now and am finally kicking myself into gear on some maintenance (nearing 150,000 miles) and some performance parts.
I was looking to re-do the entire exhaust system. Piping, mufflers, resonators, etc. are all easy to find. I'm going to go without a catalytic converter, but keep the old one just in case The Man catches me and forces me to put one on.
I can't seem to find any high-performance exhaust headers anywhere. eBay has plenty of salvaged ones, but no high-performance headers specifically for a Camry 5S-FE. Know of any better places to look? I did do an eBay search for '5sfe' and looked in the exhaust section and found some for (and from) 5S-FE MR2's and Celica's.
Would, or could, a header for the same engine in a Celica or MR2 work for my Camry? Also, if it does, would a stock Celica or MR2 header give any more performance gains over my Camry headers? In my mind at least it makes sense :screwy:: the Celica is basically a sports-Camry, and the MR2 is one of their higher performance sports-cars, so they would most likely have a better header set.
One last question. I was at the local car salvage lot and they had 2 Supra's there. I noticed that they had a nice, stock dual-muffler (not dual-exhaust, but one pipe, one muffler, and two exit pipes). I got the idea to cut it off the Supra and weld it (or use an adapter) to my exhaust pipe in place of my stock 'economy' muffler. This way I can have a higher performance muffler, but one that won't sound like a stupid little ricer :cool:. I assume this will work, but I wanted someone else's opinion on it.
I was also considering ripping off both dual-mufflers from both the Supra's at the junkyard and fitting a Y-pipe adapter onto the exhaust pipe to have dual-exhaust, dual-mufflers on my Camry :jerking:. I imagine there are some (if not very minor) performance gains to this, but it would also be a nice looking modification. Any opinions/thoughts/concerns on this idea?
I was looking to re-do the entire exhaust system. Piping, mufflers, resonators, etc. are all easy to find. I'm going to go without a catalytic converter, but keep the old one just in case The Man catches me and forces me to put one on.
I can't seem to find any high-performance exhaust headers anywhere. eBay has plenty of salvaged ones, but no high-performance headers specifically for a Camry 5S-FE. Know of any better places to look? I did do an eBay search for '5sfe' and looked in the exhaust section and found some for (and from) 5S-FE MR2's and Celica's.
Would, or could, a header for the same engine in a Celica or MR2 work for my Camry? Also, if it does, would a stock Celica or MR2 header give any more performance gains over my Camry headers? In my mind at least it makes sense :screwy:: the Celica is basically a sports-Camry, and the MR2 is one of their higher performance sports-cars, so they would most likely have a better header set.
One last question. I was at the local car salvage lot and they had 2 Supra's there. I noticed that they had a nice, stock dual-muffler (not dual-exhaust, but one pipe, one muffler, and two exit pipes). I got the idea to cut it off the Supra and weld it (or use an adapter) to my exhaust pipe in place of my stock 'economy' muffler. This way I can have a higher performance muffler, but one that won't sound like a stupid little ricer :cool:. I assume this will work, but I wanted someone else's opinion on it.
I was also considering ripping off both dual-mufflers from both the Supra's at the junkyard and fitting a Y-pipe adapter onto the exhaust pipe to have dual-exhaust, dual-mufflers on my Camry :jerking:. I imagine there are some (if not very minor) performance gains to this, but it would also be a nice looking modification. Any opinions/thoughts/concerns on this idea?
jdmccright
09-07-2011, 09:44 AM
You're correct, there just aren't any "performance" headers made for the Camry 5S-FE. The stock header feeds into the single flex-pipe right behind the rad fans. I don't know if the MR2 or Celica headers are different...MR2 probably different given that engine is rear mount, Celica may be possible (GT or -S) but you still have to mate it with a downpipe. Probably some custom work to get them to line up. But if you're ditching the cat (not recommended - you'll be haunted by the eternal CEL) then you can fab a custom down pipe with flex connect.
Any exhaust changes might result in a slight increase, but don't go crazy oversizing the pipes. Same is true trying to run duals to the back. First, there's little room underneath for it, and second, that will result in too little back pressure which can hurt performance. If you do go duals, you'd actually want to make the pipe diameter a little smaller past the Y to maintain the same cross-sectional area before and after the Y...say from 1.5" down to 1" or 1.25".
In short, there's no much out there for the Camry's 5S-FE. It's a good, solid engine but made for economy and longevity. Mods have been done and if you have the time and energy, it can take a beating within reason. Just be prepared to be on your own as the support for modding this motor is pretty thin.
Good luck!
Any exhaust changes might result in a slight increase, but don't go crazy oversizing the pipes. Same is true trying to run duals to the back. First, there's little room underneath for it, and second, that will result in too little back pressure which can hurt performance. If you do go duals, you'd actually want to make the pipe diameter a little smaller past the Y to maintain the same cross-sectional area before and after the Y...say from 1.5" down to 1" or 1.25".
In short, there's no much out there for the Camry's 5S-FE. It's a good, solid engine but made for economy and longevity. Mods have been done and if you have the time and energy, it can take a beating within reason. Just be prepared to be on your own as the support for modding this motor is pretty thin.
Good luck!
gtchamp7
09-08-2011, 10:42 AM
You're correct, there just aren't any "performance" headers made for the Camry 5S-FE. The stock header feeds into the single flex-pipe right behind the rad fans. I don't know if the MR2 or Celica headers are different...MR2 probably different given that engine is rear mount, Celica may be possible (GT or -S) but you still have to mate it with a downpipe. Probably some custom work to get them to line up. But if you're ditching the cat (not recommended - you'll be haunted by the eternal CEL) then you can fab a custom down pipe with flex connect.
Any exhaust changes might result in a slight increase, but don't go crazy oversizing the pipes. Same is true trying to run duals to the back. First, there's little room underneath for it, and second, that will result in too little back pressure which can hurt performance. If you do go duals, you'd actually want to make the pipe diameter a little smaller past the Y to maintain the same cross-sectional area before and after the Y...say from 1.5" down to 1" or 1.25".
In short, there's no much out there for the Camry's 5S-FE. It's a good, solid engine but made for economy and longevity. Mods have been done and if you have the time and energy, it can take a beating within reason. Just be prepared to be on your own as the support for modding this motor is pretty thin.
Good luck!
Thanks for the reply! Since I made this thread, I've been doing more research and talking over it with my brother who has experience with the 5S-FE, and performance mods in general. I have revised my plan a bit and would like some input on it.
I couldn't find any 5S-FE Camry-specific high performance headers, but looking at the bolt pattern and placement, headers from 5S-FE Celica's and MR2's should work. The downpipe is the piece that needs to be Camry-specific because of the engine mount. High flow downpipes for the Camry are equally as hard to find. Worst comes to worst, I may just follow your suggestion and build a custom downpipe. What exactly is the purpose of having a flex-pipe? From the downpipe, I am not sure of what exactly to do. I could get some custom-made piping to follow back to the muffler.
In general, with no catalytic conv. on the exhaust, high-flow headers + downpipe, and a slightly larger diameter piping, would it be loud? I ask because I'm trying to decide if I should have a resonator on the exhaust line. Personally, I can't stand ricers and their lawnmower-sounding exhausts. I want as much performance out of this exhaust system as possible, without the ricer sound. What is your personal opinion on whether I should attach a resonator or not?
Also, to help with the above question, I am going to use the muffler from a Supra. I ditched the idea for dual-Supra-mufflers because there would be no real benefit to it, and it would involve a lot of unnecessary work.
In addition to all this, I am going to get a new oxygen sensor. Is there any real difference in O2 sensors to where it should warrant a more expensive one? Also, if I use Celica headers should I use a Celica O2 Sensor, or a Camry one? Or, are the ports all (generally) the same?
M2 Performance Stainless-Steel Celica 5S-FE headers (+ gaskets for headers and downpipe) - http://www.m2performance.net/product/productdetail.asp?productid=5931
Walker Oxygen Sensor for Camry - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Brand-New-Oxygen-Sensor-Walker-250-21051-/350431250630?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AToyota|Model%3ACamry&hash=item51975488c6 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Brand-New-Oxygen-Sensor-Walker-250-21051-/350431250630?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AToyota%7CModel%3ACamry&hash=item51975488c6)
Custom downpipe w/o Cat. Conv.
Custom piping + resonator (or not)
Supra (single-input from exhaust piping, dual-output) muffler
And one last question: Since this will be a replacement of the entire exhaust system, is there anything that I should also get that I forgot to list? I imagine I will find out once I dive into this project, but I would rather know beforehand so that I can map it all out.
Thank you very much for all your help!
Any exhaust changes might result in a slight increase, but don't go crazy oversizing the pipes. Same is true trying to run duals to the back. First, there's little room underneath for it, and second, that will result in too little back pressure which can hurt performance. If you do go duals, you'd actually want to make the pipe diameter a little smaller past the Y to maintain the same cross-sectional area before and after the Y...say from 1.5" down to 1" or 1.25".
In short, there's no much out there for the Camry's 5S-FE. It's a good, solid engine but made for economy and longevity. Mods have been done and if you have the time and energy, it can take a beating within reason. Just be prepared to be on your own as the support for modding this motor is pretty thin.
Good luck!
Thanks for the reply! Since I made this thread, I've been doing more research and talking over it with my brother who has experience with the 5S-FE, and performance mods in general. I have revised my plan a bit and would like some input on it.
I couldn't find any 5S-FE Camry-specific high performance headers, but looking at the bolt pattern and placement, headers from 5S-FE Celica's and MR2's should work. The downpipe is the piece that needs to be Camry-specific because of the engine mount. High flow downpipes for the Camry are equally as hard to find. Worst comes to worst, I may just follow your suggestion and build a custom downpipe. What exactly is the purpose of having a flex-pipe? From the downpipe, I am not sure of what exactly to do. I could get some custom-made piping to follow back to the muffler.
In general, with no catalytic conv. on the exhaust, high-flow headers + downpipe, and a slightly larger diameter piping, would it be loud? I ask because I'm trying to decide if I should have a resonator on the exhaust line. Personally, I can't stand ricers and their lawnmower-sounding exhausts. I want as much performance out of this exhaust system as possible, without the ricer sound. What is your personal opinion on whether I should attach a resonator or not?
Also, to help with the above question, I am going to use the muffler from a Supra. I ditched the idea for dual-Supra-mufflers because there would be no real benefit to it, and it would involve a lot of unnecessary work.
In addition to all this, I am going to get a new oxygen sensor. Is there any real difference in O2 sensors to where it should warrant a more expensive one? Also, if I use Celica headers should I use a Celica O2 Sensor, or a Camry one? Or, are the ports all (generally) the same?
M2 Performance Stainless-Steel Celica 5S-FE headers (+ gaskets for headers and downpipe) - http://www.m2performance.net/product/productdetail.asp?productid=5931
Walker Oxygen Sensor for Camry - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Brand-New-Oxygen-Sensor-Walker-250-21051-/350431250630?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AToyota|Model%3ACamry&hash=item51975488c6 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Brand-New-Oxygen-Sensor-Walker-250-21051-/350431250630?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AToyota%7CModel%3ACamry&hash=item51975488c6)
Custom downpipe w/o Cat. Conv.
Custom piping + resonator (or not)
Supra (single-input from exhaust piping, dual-output) muffler
And one last question: Since this will be a replacement of the entire exhaust system, is there anything that I should also get that I forgot to list? I imagine I will find out once I dive into this project, but I would rather know beforehand so that I can map it all out.
Thank you very much for all your help!
jdmccright
09-09-2011, 12:16 PM
I'll try to hit all your questions:
What exactly is the purpose of having a flex-pipe? From the downpipe, I am not sure of what exactly to do.
The flexpipe allows movement between the engine and the downstream piping. The flexible section is where the steel braided piping is...inside is a corrugated section of pipe like flexible hose duct.
In general, with no catalytic conv. on the exhaust, high-flow headers + downpipe, and a slightly larger diameter piping, would it be loud? ... What is your personal opinion on whether I should attach a resonator or not?
In general, it will be quieter with the cat, resonator and muffler.
Is there any real difference in O2 sensors to where it should warrant a more expensive one? Also, if I use Celica headers should I use a Celica O2 Sensor, or a Camry one? Or, are the ports all (generally) the same?
You should stick with the Camry sensor if it fits into the same bung.
Since this will be a replacement of the entire exhaust system, is there anything that I should also get that I forgot to list?
Hangers, rubber isolators, flange gaskets, etc.
What exactly is the purpose of having a flex-pipe? From the downpipe, I am not sure of what exactly to do.
The flexpipe allows movement between the engine and the downstream piping. The flexible section is where the steel braided piping is...inside is a corrugated section of pipe like flexible hose duct.
In general, with no catalytic conv. on the exhaust, high-flow headers + downpipe, and a slightly larger diameter piping, would it be loud? ... What is your personal opinion on whether I should attach a resonator or not?
In general, it will be quieter with the cat, resonator and muffler.
Is there any real difference in O2 sensors to where it should warrant a more expensive one? Also, if I use Celica headers should I use a Celica O2 Sensor, or a Camry one? Or, are the ports all (generally) the same?
You should stick with the Camry sensor if it fits into the same bung.
Since this will be a replacement of the entire exhaust system, is there anything that I should also get that I forgot to list?
Hangers, rubber isolators, flange gaskets, etc.
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