F1 Suspension geometry

Just a wild throw it out there and see what comes back sort of question.
Does any one have details of the Castor, Camber and Toe angles used on both the front and rear of the road converted GTR's, failing that any variant of the F1?
Thanks in advance to all the experts out there.

Well according to the copy of what looks like Gordon Murray's hand written notes on page 127 of driving ambition (I assume this is for the road car only due to it's placement in the timeline of the book) it looks like the castor is 4 degrees and camber is -45 minutes which means 0.75 degrees. The camber change is 4.4 degrees for 80 mm of travel. The King Pin Inclination is 9 degrees and toe in is 3 mm in front and 0 at the rear. If anyone can correct any numbers i have please do so.

That gives an idea, but I think the road-going GTR's were a touch different

Although this is 97 spec GTR that run at LeMans, it maybe usefull as a comparison.

Castor 4 degrees.

Camber......... front 3.1 degrees..........rear 1.0 degrees.

F/toe 1mm out per wheel.

R/toe 2.5mm in per wheel

Ride height front 64mm..........rear 84mm

All dims, with driver on board.

The factory settings on the road car were:

Caster - 4 deg (fixed)
Kingpin incl. - 9 deg (fixed)
Mech. Trail - 19 mm
Camber - 1.75 deg (F); .75 deg (R) (fixed)
Toe - 1.5 mm out (F); 2 mm in (R) (per corner)

Many thanks, just one point what is mech trail?

Many thanks, just one point what is mech trail?

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/8188/80069389.jpg

Mechanical trail is the distance between (imaginary) intersection of steering axis (line through the ball-joints) and center of contact patch when the vehicle is stationary.
When the vehicle is moving forward, the center of the contact patch migrates towards the rear by several mm. The distance between the center of the contact patch when the vehicle is static and the center when the vehicle is moving is called "pneumatic trail". Pneumatic trail and mechanical trail together are total trail.

Of course must be going senile, know what it is just could not remember what the terminology was for it.
Thanks

Does anybody know anything about this coilover kit for the F1?

http://www.lmpcars.com/tag/fine-attitude/page/2/

http://i.imgur.com/7wq26.jpg

I'll try to find where these were posted before to help you out :)

ETA try here (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=888990) [although the pictures are down]

I could not find a more relevant thread than this for this observations (moderators if there is one feel free to move as appropriate).

I was going through my pictures of the front upper a arm and realized that there is not just two (street and race), but rather at least 4 different variations on the upper a arms. It is interesting how one car can have so many design iterations for one part. Are these parts engineered by the race teams instead of McLaren? Are there any street cars with the race type upper a arms?

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss305/webslinger283/DSC00034.jpg

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss305/webslinger283/MC_LAREN_F1_GTR_LONG_TAIL_-_04.jpg

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss305/webslinger283/1560.jpg

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss305/webslinger283/650460.jpg

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss305/webslinger283/c2dr.jpg

Not sure - they might be too big? Host them somewhere and use the [IMG] tags to embed. If they are huge, link to the thumbnail for convenience. :)

>8^)
ER

Thanks Erik, I realized after your post I was trying to post using the page URL and not the image URL. My delinquency has been corrected.

The one I am most familiar with is in Pic 3 Pic 2 seems to be a modification by the teams to add extra adjustability. Not sure where 1 sits possibly on 1997 cars? Pic 4 is certainly road car and to my knowledge never used on a race variant though you can never be certain once converted for road use?

The one I am most familiar with is in Pic 3 Pic 2 seems to be a modification by the teams to add extra adjustability. Not sure where 1 sits possibly on 1997 cars? Pic 4 is certainly road car and to my knowledge never used on a race variant though you can never be certain once converted for road use?

Pic 4 is early 95 spec GTR.

Some GTR,s are still fitted with the road car upper wishbone, 10R being one of them :smile:

The first change to a CNC upper front wishbone, was at Lemans 95 then there were two further variants for 96 and 97. Nothing unusual in this, geometry and component changes dictating the main reasons for these updates.

Pic 4 is early 95 spec GTR.

Some GTR,s are still fitted with the road car upper wishbone, 10R being one of them :smile:

The first change to a CNC upper front wishbone, was at Lemans 95 then there were two further variants for 96 and 97. Nothing unusual in this, geometry and component changes dictating the main reasons for these updates.

If it was component changes that dictated the changes, did the geometry remain fairly consistent from year to year on the GTR side? Obviously picture 2 would allow the team to adjust camber and ride height on the fly, but i assume that was for circuit to circuit variations as opposed to the car starting with a different geometry.

Also does the Mclaren F1 GT (longtail roadcar) have a shared suspension with the race car or the street car? Same with the LM? Are there any road cars with the race car suspension (i assume this would be limited to those cars that got the LM spec engines and HDF kit if any).

If it was component changes that dictated the changes, did the geometry remain fairly consistent from year to year on the GTR side? Obviously picture 2 would allow the team to adjust camber and ride height on the fly, but i assume that was for circuit to circuit variations as opposed to the car starting with a different geometry.

Also does the Mclaren F1 GT (longtail roadcar) have a shared suspension with the race car or the street car? Same with the LM? Are there any road cars with the race car suspension (i assume this would be limited to those cars that got the LM spec engines and HDF kit if any).

The F1 GT has the road car suspension set up, look at the build pics in DA. It also runs with the same ride height.

F1LM uses early 95 GTR components including the redundant front suspension rafts.

As far as I know HDF,s have spring and damper setting changes, plus a slightly lower ride height. Maybe Henry can confirm this :).

I doubt if any road F1 has been converted with any GTR parts, it would only detract from the cars original design ethos. That of a comfortable grand touring sports car that three people can travel long distances in.

For ride heights for the three GTR,s and the road F1, GT and LM look through the specs in DA. They maybe ball park figures, but they are close.

I will answer the first part of your question when I have a bit more time :)