Tranny in the Trunk, Bearings and anything else

Well, after 4 months of walking around, I finally got a transmission. My friend calls it, a Tranny in the trunk."
I split the job into two different tasks, one, getting the transmission. Second, putting it in.
Now that I'm on part 2, some comments where made when I bought it at the wrecking yard. As my friend was backing up, I remember the person saying that while the trans is out, "I would change the barring behind the tourqe converter. I think he also said the other ones as well.

Without adding to much more costs, what is a good idea to replace before I put the trans in?

He also said the tourqe converter goes in three tmes, or something like that. If it doesn't go in all three, it will hit the pump and break it. Whats he talking about?

Any tips or advice would help,
Thank you very much,
Chris

Here is a picture of my "Tranny in the Trunk."

http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af78/happydog500/TrannyintheTrunk.jpg

I would replace the seal behind the torque converter. The bushing should be ok. When you put the converter in, after you get it up on the shaft you have to push and turn the converter to get it to match all the splines and slide all the way up until the pump shaft is in. As you turn, wiggle and push you will feel it move back and "clunk" each step. If you can't fit your fingers between the converter and bellhousing it is usually all the way back. You will understand when you do it.

Thanks for the reply. You made it sound not so scary. The only thing that's got me spooked now is what I herd on the radio.

A man called up The Car Show and told about how his transmission went out. He replaced it with a new, factory transmission that went out in 6 months. He got another new one, but it went out also.
He was asked if he replaced the transmission lines and the radiator when he did the job. He said no, and the reply was that parts of the trans that went out, clog the lines and get stuck in the radiator. It restricts the flow and it overheats the trans. The person on the radio added, you can never be sure you get them all out unless you replace the lines and put in a new radiator.

It will be a hard job getting this thing in, let alone the expense and work of changing the trans lines and a new radiator I just replaced a few years a go. Kind of seems like it won't be worth it with all this. After I get done, I may have a failure again.

Chris.

When we do a warranty transmission repair we are required to backflush, front flush and flow test the cooler to make sure it is safe to be reused. Most are. A flush code with temperature, and flow rate in gallons per minute is required for GM to pay for a claim. Did you remove the lower pan from your old trans and if so was there alot of friction material in it? If there was not you "should" be ok. There is a flush in a can available aftermarket that forces fluid and detergents through the cooler and lines. Use this at the very least to make sure the system is clear. This is not the best test but you can put one end of a line in a jug and blow air through the other line. If it comes out at a decent rate you may be ok. The only other problem is if the cooler leaks and coolant gets into the trans fluid. If the lines aren't kinked or rusty there is no need to replace them. Blow em out. If the radiator has high mileage, well, you may want to replace it. I have overhauled and replaced ALOT of transmissions and had only a few cooler issues.

About 5 years a go, a friend and I dropped the pan. He found little chunks and told me to, "sell the car." I forgot about it and now, 5 years later I had a failure.

When it went, I was driving along and it was like it went into neutral. I revved it up and it slammed into gear and drove home. I drove it back about 10mph and parked it. Trans has a sound like a rod knock, but sounds more like if I took my belt off (pants) and hit it on a table. Smack, smack, smack, smack, smack.....

Chris.

Sounds like the reverse reaction drum went in your original trans.. I like trans coolers for a reason...

I would flush out your trans heat exchanger to make sure there is no trash in it before you install the new trans...

Sounds like the reverse reaction drum went in your original trans.. I like trans coolers for a reason...

I would flush out your trans heat exchanger to make sure there is no trash in it before you install the new trans...
Sounds interesting. What is the reverse reaction drum? Is the heat exchanger the radiator thing in the front?

I ran into a friend at breakfast and he's really good with cars. He may help get this thing in. When we were talking, he wondered what the book time was on it. He is going to look it up. I want to know what he's going to find out. Anyone know how much time they give for a trans swap? Not actual, but shop time or what ever the "book" says.

Thanks,
Chris.

I bought GM Factory Service Manuals for my car. I bought "both" books, 1 and 2 "of 2". These have everything I need for my car, - except how to take out the transmission. Who would of known 1 and 2 of 2 would mean there are 3 books?

I showed my friend my Haynes manual and if he helps, wants a better manual. Is there anyone who has that third book that could email me the pages that show how to take out the trans?

Thanks for any help.
Chris.

There is nothing in section 7 about R&R? Only Diagnostics and overhaul? I should be able to find the manual today. 1997 Lesabre, correct? The engine will need to be supported from the top with an engine support fixture. Then the frame (cradle) will need to be removed from the bottom, diconnecting ball joints, sway bar end links, etc. Lower steering shaft disconnected. Starter removed, torque converter bolts removed. Everything else in the way removed or relocated. Remove all bell housing bolts, don't forget the one that comes in from the other side of the engine. Axles out of trans, then trans out of car.
To replace with transfer of parts 4T65-E pays 8.0 hours plus a few tenths here and there.
4T60-E pays 7.3 hours plus a few tenths.

will you guys have a lift or be doing this on the ground?

The sub frame on the 86-99 H bodies has a separation point at the passenger front... Will be sort of in the shape of an L ..... Will look like this...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Jr3800/LeSabre%20Forum/1993LesabreTrans012.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Jr3800/LeSabre%20Forum/1993LesabreTrans009.jpg

This is the back yard mechanic method as I don't have a lift anywhere...lol

1997.
We will be doing this on the ground. He said it will be 8 1/2, so I can tell him it's easier then it seems since mine is the 460E.

I have from Autozone a drawing of the cradle. It shows the four points with it "separating" one point at the places you have in the picture. The part that's out laying on the ground, can I leave the other part in the car?

I came into the restaurant this morning and a guy was talking to my friend how hard it is. He didn't know for sure but was trying to act like he knew. When he saw me, he said, "this guy said it's hard." I showed him the drawing from autozone website and told him the cradle comes apart and might not have to take the whole thing out. It's easy!

We need a good manual. I remember years a go I found a website that had the manuals online. I think it was some kind of school or something but can't find it now. Would be good to get the pages. This is what I bought the manuals for in the first place.

Chris.

Like stated the engine will need to be supported from the top... There are 3 bolts iirc on the passenger front ahead of the compressor for the sub frame, on the drivers rear there are 4 bolts, one thats hidden, 2 that hold the sway bar bracket down and another that you should be able to see behind the control arm.. The rest of the sub frame will simply stay in place...

There is a mount on the rear of the trans, you will want to remove the 3 bolts from it... An assortment of sockets and reversible ratchet wrenches will help in a big way...

The opposing bolt will be the hardest to get to... several 1/2" extensions will come in very handy here...

Its not easy.... But I have seen worse...

I should be able to find the manual today. 1997 Lesabre, correct?
We're going to do this in a few days. If you could, try and get the pages to me soon.
"Not easy?" All you have to do is take off a few bolts, drop part of the subframe and take a few bolts off and it comes right out! :)

Chris.

Chris I wish it was that easy...lol..

wish you the best..

DO NOT GET THE HAYNES MANUAL IT SUCKS. That is all :cool:

DO NOT GET THE HAYNES MANUAL IT SUCKS. That is all :cool:
I already have the Haynes manual. My friend is ready to help but won't until I get another manual. Pretty sure I got a link here for a school that had very good manuals online. Nobody remembers where?

procaddytech, What about sending me a copy of the GM manual pages? I understand if it's to much of a hassle. Just wondering if it's a posability.

Chris.

I bought GM Factory Service Manuals for my car. I bought "both" books, 1 and 2 "of 2". These have everything I need for my car, - except how to take out the transmission. Who would of known 1 and 2 of 2 would mean there are 3 books?

You said you had books 1 and 2. Of what exactly? Is it the 1996 GM Service Manual? It should be the one you have since they never made a 1997 one ( stupid GM thinking ) execept for the book that is only one book the stupid Preliminary book. Well you do not need the transaxle GM manual unless you plan on a total overhaul. In Book 1 of the 1996 GM C/H Platform Manual Section 7A-31 tells you how to remove the transmission and has all the torque specs at the end of it. If this didnt help you I can try and print these out then scan them. I dont know if I have access to the scanner if it even works I could mail them to you.

I have the Official GM Service Manual, 1997 Lesabre book 1 and 2. It says it's in transmission book #3.

I copied the pages out of the Mitchel book here at the library. So far, the Haynes is by far the best one. The Mitchel has 6 steps like, disconnect electrical connectors, remove bolts, no pictures or diagrams on almost all of it. Haynes shows pictures of just about every step. Not saying Haynes is good, just it's the best by far between the two.

Trying to find a good manual. Wish I could remember what library or school that had the super good manuals on line.

If you look on ebay right now "1997 Lesabre" under "books" you can see the same books I have. Enlarge and you can see, "book 1 of 2" on the cover of the front one. The information I need is in Book #3.

Chris.

Dang I was looking all over for a 1997 book on the LeSabre and could not find one and then I found the 1997 Preliminary and it told you to get the transaxle book which then told you to get the 1996 book. I beleive thats right forgot its been a while well I have the 1996 book that tells you all the step on taking it out with pictures maybe not as many as you would like but there are pictures. I could scan them for you if you would like?

Wonder what if any differences in a 96 to 97? My "97" was made in 3/96. Friends 1996 Park Ave was made 3 months after my 1997 Lesabre.

Yes, please scan them! Want to start this asap. This would help a lot to get them.

Chris.

I pulled a 97 tranny at a pick and pull with hand tools and it took me five hours. You don't have to have a manual. Use a legal pad and lots of ziplocs and carefully note each step.

[not necessarily in this order, but.....]

You need to remove the five or so main engine to tranny bolts (18mm), the rear pass side tranny to engine mount, tranny to rear frame area dog bone mount, the rear driver's side mount using a 13mm wrench (ratcheting would help) on the three hard to reach bolts. (Note that just removing the nuts from under the mount will not help much because the mount will not be free from the vehicle by doing so.)

Remove the vacuum line and vacuum modulator. The electrical harness. The neutral safety switch. The intake stuff between the air filter and intake manifold. Both axles (which usually means separating the strut from the steering knuckle, and removing the tie rod ends from the steering knuckle--easier than the lower ball joint, if it is riveted on--you WILL need a wheel alignment when done if you do this.) It also helps to remove the exhaust crossmember. Remove the plastic shield covering the flywheel (3 x 10mm.) Remove the three torque converter to tranny bolts (18mm wrench.) Once all this is off, all that is left is the L-frame in the picture above. You need to support the engine with a hoist, pry the engine and tranny apart, while supporting the tranny with a decent jack (a board on a garage jack works fine.) Of course, support the vehicle with jack stands in areas where the sub-frame you are removing is not. Drop the sub frame (only about five bolts total.) And then lower your tranny. You COULD use a large board to support the sub frame AND tranny and then lower them together (but with the vehicle secure on jack stands. It is vital that the car be secure.) If you note each step, it just goes back together in reverse order.

Thanks for sending me the pages. This doesn't look anything like the other manuals. Way harder looking in this one. Shows removing brackets not on the other ones.

This "on vehicle service" doesn't show anything about the axles. I can't follow the order of this, it seems to jump around and not make sense. I didn't see in the other ones where you have to take the transmission apart to get it out like on this one.

Thank you for sending this to me.

Spinne, did you have axle pullers to take the axles out? How did you do that?

Chris.

Yeah its weird but each step it tells you that is pretty much what you will be removing.
Also to remove axles a set of pry bars will work but if it doesnt you will need the puller.
Alot of times the ring clip on the end of the axle will get egg shaped and is a pain to remove axle.

The half shafts removal was described above. The brake caliper needs to be removed from the bracket and supported out of the way. The upper bolts for the steering knuckle should be removed from the strut. The tie rod should be removed from the knuckle. The hub nut should be removed from the outer end of the axle. The knuckle can then be moved out of the way and the axle can be disengaged from the transaxle with a prybar, punch, or the special slide hammer adapter (factory tool). The left (driver) side axle inner CV is difficult to remove with the prybar method but can be done. As Bud Wheel alluded, be careful to remove the inner CV straight or the retaining clip can be distorted, making removal even more difficult.

Well, haven't been able to do the swap yet. I helped a person for a week about a month a go. We where going to exchange work. I guess I will right it off.

I found a trans shop who will do it for $500. I thought it was 7.2 hours but the shop looked it up. I saw in the Chilton book the time was 5.5. It came out to low $400 area but, "with fluid and pan gasket" was rounded out to $500. Don't have the money right now but this at least gives me something to shoot for.
Wonder if it will be a thing where they quote one price but when you come back, it's way higher?

I told them I was going to have a new seal behind the torque converter. She told me I should change the axle seals since it's out. This adds $30 more. With the cost of the used Trans, seals and swap I'm into it for about $900. Sure didn't want to put this into this car.

Chris.

I have said this before... Too bad you are not closer Chris...

I have said this before... Too bad you are not closer Chris...
Thank you.
All the years you've worked, I still think you deserve a cross country vacation. :)

May be near the $500 with sisters help. I was going to have my friend help me with the seal behind the torque converter and axle. Now, with the shop putting it in, I want to do the seals myself.
The one behind the TQ, do I just pry it off? Don't see a way to remove axle seals.
Any advice on how to do this so I don't even have to involve friend who said he was going to help?

Thank you,
Chris.

Sorry for posting in an old thread. I wanted to thank everyone who has helped me with my transmission.

I got the transmission in and after 8 months without a car, it runs good! This was the easiest transmission to do. The whole thing took about 15 minutes! I drove it to the transmission shop and dropped it off. :)

Could not get any help from friend so when I got the money, I had a transmission shop do it. I was charged $550.82. This is for the install, new seals and a flush with new fluid. All the gaskets where changed.

Thank you very much,
Chris.