Upcoming UIM/LIM Canadian experience

I will soon be doing the UIM and LIM on my 99 Buick Lesabre. Many of the write-ups and information originates in the USA. Much of this information is directly transferable to us north of the 49th. Some information, such as part numbers, parts availability, and prices can vary dramatically. It may be valuable for any Canadians contemplating this procedure, to be able to see what part numbers you will need, where you can find the parts, and how much you should expect to pay. Some of the prices you will see may be overinflated, even for Canada. Living on the West Coast, we tend to experience the highest prices of anything in North America. Also, I don't have good friends working behind parts departments, so getting those unofficial discounts can be tough.

The next post will include the parts, special tools, their sources, and costs.

Parts: Some of the following prices will seem extremely high to my friends in the USA. That's because we Canadians get saoked with either huge shipping costs or big companies making huge profits at our expense.

APN upper intake manifold kit.
Source: http://www.ineedparts.com/index.php?target=products&product_id=17806
Cost: $223 for two (I've got two cars to do. I saved about $20 shipping by having both shipped in one box.)

Revised LIM gasket #89017816 for 98+ 3.8L (double check the years yourself)
Source: Dealership
Cost: $130

Throttle Body gasket (some have said the one included with the UPN may be too thick and casue the UIM to warp. That was about 2 years ago. It appears that UPN now supplies a throttle body gasket that is identical to what GM will give you. This may have been an issue two years ago. It's not now.
Source: Not necessary
Cost: Not necessary

Dormann Help! coolant elbows
Source: (aftermarket parts supplier)
Cost: $4.13

Loctite 242
Source: (aftermarket parts supplier)
Cost: TBA

Red High Temp RTV
Source: (aftermarket parts supply)
Cost: TBA

various supplies
Source: (if you're considering doing this job yourself, you will have most of these supplies anyway. They're things like brake cleaner, Q-tips, etc etc.)

Parts: Some of the following prices will seem extremely high to my friends in the USA. That's because we Canadians get saoked with either huge shipping costs or big companies making huge profits at our expense.


Throttle Body gasket (some have said the one included with the UPN may be too thick and casue the UIM to warp... I'm not sure so I'm getting a GM gasket. probably overkill and unnecessary.)
Source: Dealership
Cost: TBA


The throttle body gasket is already on the end of the intake uppers that you got. The gasket on my UIM from Ineedparts was right. The mechanic used it for my replacement on my 2003 last summer. He had told me that the ORIGINAL gaskets were too thin from GM. When they did the recall to install stronger nuts and washers on the throttle body (along with organic sealer into the coolant) it was to try to squeeze the original gaskets harder to effect a better seal when the upper plastic warped slightly from the heat.

So you can save the money for the gaskets!

When the mechanic disassembled the car, he showed me the seep I was getting was all at the throttle body due to the thin gasket. That's why it was seemingly random and very slow that I lost coolant. My lower intake gaskets on the 2003 were intact, although one had a seal area that had moved slightly. He said that probably would have made it to 200,000 miles.

I hope it wasn't my post that was misunderstood about the thin vs thick gaskets!

The recall included installing torque retaining nuts on the T/B studs, which help retain proper torque & preventing coolant loss. Here are a couple of links from Dorman that may be of some help.

http://www.dormanproducts.com/documents4rb/Intake%20TechSpeak.pdf
http://www.dormanproducts.com/documents4rb/615-180_Instructions.pdf

The throttle body gasket is already on the end of the intake uppers that you got. The gasket on my UIM from Ineedparts was right. The mechanic used it for my replacement on my 2003 last summer. He had told me that the ORIGINAL gaskets were too thin from GM. When they did the recall to install stronger nuts and washers on the throttle body (along with organic sealer into the coolant) it was to try to squeeze the original gaskets harder to effect a better seal when the upper plastic warped slightly from the heat.

So you can save the money for the gaskets!

When the mechanic disassembled the car, he showed me the seep I was getting was all at the throttle body due to the thin gasket. That's why it was seemingly random and very slow that I lost coolant. My lower intake gaskets on the 2003 were intact, although one had a seal area that had moved slightly. He said that probably would have made it to 200,000 miles.

I hope it wasn't my post that was misunderstood about the thin vs thick gaskets!

I don't think so. My comments about the throttle body are for a pre-2000 Lesabre. The GM recall, if I'm not mistaken, affects 2000+ model years because GM changed the gasket. My concern actually has nothing to do with the GM recall. I read somewhere that one guy had trouble with the APN throttle body gasket because it either wasn't soft enough, or wasn't flexible enough. The GM gasket (pre-2000) worked better for that individual.

NOTE: My comments were referring to a post in another forum about some one that had trouble with the APN UIM throttle body gaskets in 2009. Apparently the supplied gasket was orange, and quite different from the OEM gasket. The gasket currently supplied with the APN UIM is identical to the OEM gasket, so you are correct that the gasket from Ineedparts is the correct gasket. I confirmed this today when I compared the OEM gasket to the one from Ineedparts.

Thanks Hotz28,

I'll take one of the APN throttle body gaskets to compare with the GM ones. Maybe I'll check into the TSB also. I know it doesn't apply, but if it's cheap enough and works with the APN, it might be worth it to install. Alternatively, I could use BNaylor's solution and install a stainless steel u-tube through the coolant passages, or even block the coolant passages completely.

Addenum: I just compared the APN throttle body gasket with the one GM supplies. They are now identical. Apparently two years ago, APN was supplying a different gasket that was too thick or two rigid. Bottom line is that the old gasket (orange coloured at the time) did not work. This is no longer an issue.

I wish I had thought of this much sooner! I find it difficult to tell if the carrier on an installed gasket is plastic or aluminum because I'm assuming some carriers are grey plastic. So, I was assuming that even though my gasket had a grey carrier, it could be plastic. Because the car had only 100000km (60000mi) on it, I assumed that nothing had failed, or if it had, it had been replaced by the dealer with plastic framed gaskets.

Then I had a brain wave.

Test your carrier for conductivity!!!!! There is an easily accessible portion of the LIM gasket right near the exaust crossover pipe. Sure enough, 0 ohms! It has been replaced! The UIM is most definitely NOT an APN one. There is no metal sleeve, and I have no idea how long this will last, so I will install the APN UIM.

The job has been going very well, just slowly. I am always overly careful to clean all traces of oil and grime off from mating surfaces, especially on parts I don't want to replace ever again. It took me a good day to clean the LIM mating surfaces and install. I'm sure many shops would not take that level of care, and I'm sure I overdid it. I also had to fill some of the pitting and one deep scratch with JBweld.

Now for a question:

I have now convinced myself I don't want any coolant that contains any variant of ethyl hexanoate (EHA). Ford tried it in one engine and found it softened plastics. The EHA was added for two reasons: long life protection and to eliminate silicates found in conventional fluids.

Silicates are known for fast protection of iron whereas EHA takes several thousands of miles of driving to gain that protection. Some say that silicates can damage waterpumps. I do not believe that one bit. I used conventional silicate coolant in my Grand Marquis for the 14 years that I've had it. I always mixed with distilled water. I now have 350000km with the original cooling system, with the exception of coolant hoses.

I looked at the composition of Prestone "mixes with all" that some are recommending and found it contains EHA, the dreaded plastic softening chemical. I plan to switch to conventional EHA free coolant, but have to make sure I get all the dexcool junk out. What's the best way to do this?

Well, no answers to the last question. Maybe I will get an answer to this question.

So far things have gone very smoothly, just slow. I take my time when I do these jobs. Once I got things together, it started right up. No hesitation, runs quieter than before. I think the person who did the job before didn't torque things down properly, didn't use threadlocker, etc. I also found several slightly cracked vacuum fittings which I replaced.

Now for my problem.

I can't seem to get my exhaust crossover pipe to seal properly. The first time I did it, I torqued it to 15 lb ft as specified by the factory service manual. I then realized that it wasn't sitting on the exhaust manifold flanges properly, so I loosened it and tried to set it on the flanges properly while torquing it down. It is much better, but it still leaks. Is there supposed to be a gasket in there? I don't recall taking one out.

If the flange continues to leak, it may be best to use the gasket shown below.

Crossover Pipe Gasket FEL-PRO Part # 61009

http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=121484&imageurl=http%3A//info.rockauto.com/Fel-Pro/61009_TOP.jpg

Thanks HotZ28,

I also checked in my FSM. I feel stupid now because it shows a gasket between the crossover pipe and headers.

Are these gaskets left out sometimes? I really don't recall removing a gasket when I removed the crossover pipe.

Well, the parts guy gave me the wrong gasket, so I put it back together so I could continue to flush my cooling system. The crossover pipe doesn't seem to leak now, so I may have been using the wrong procedure to install the pipe. Here is what I posted in another forum:

OK, I don't know if I'm ignorant or not anymore. I guess if I had done any amount of exhaust work in the past I'd have known better, but my experience is more general engine mechanical/accessories and electrical.

I found the gasket. No mention of this was made in any tech write-up that I ever came across. I'll look in the factory service manual and look there. I removed the gasket because I was going to replace it, but found the parts store had given me the wrong gasket. I took a file and gently smoothed off the rough edges so I could install the thing and at least have the engine running.

Anyway, given the lack of response to my question, I'm not sure if everyone else was just lucky with the crossover pipe, if I should have known better, or if everyone else is just in the same boat as me, or if the experts in this area haven't read my post. This is what I discovered, and this may help others who find themselves in the same boat as me.

To install the crossover pipe: (NOTE: THIS IS FROM MY EXPERIENCE. THE PROCESS MAY BE INCORRECT! IF OTHERS KNOW BETTER, PLEASE INFORM ME!
1) tap the metallic gasket so that the edge of the gasket meets with the edge of the pipe. Take care to do as little damage to the gasket as possible.
2) use a metallic blunt straight-edge tool to smooth out any rough edges around the surface or end of the metallic gasket.
3) Clean the threads of all four exhaust crossover bolts.
4) Clean all mating surfaces with a scotchbrite pad.
5) Install the crossover pipe. Finger tighten the bolts to the front flange (the one with the gasket) ensuring that the mating surfaces are even. The pipe should fit straight and appear to make a 90° angle to the flange, and that the gasket end is sitting in position in the rear manifold. Tighten with a wrench just enough so that that position doesn't move.
6) Wiggle the crossover pipe so that the gasket end fits in as squarly as possible (look at the flanges for this).
7) Begin tightening each bolt alternatly. The flange should slowly move the metallic gasket so that it seats into the receiving flange on the manifold. Once the flange/gasket appears seated, use your torque wrench set first at 10 lb-ft to tighten each bolt alternately. Then set the torque wrench to 15 lb-ft and finish torquing all 4 exhaust manifold bolts.

Again, if some one knows better, let me know so I can correct this post. I do not want to post incorrect information.

The job is done and coolant is in. On the first inspection I cannot detect any coolant leaks. The car was not completely cooled down, and a few air pockets remained in the system when I pressure tested the coolant system. It dropped from 15 PSI down to 14 in about 5 or 10 minutes. That is normal on a slightly warm engine. I have since ran the car up to temperature and alternately raised the RPM to about 2500 and back to idle to purge the air, and opened the air bleed screw at the top of the thermostat. I'll repeat the pressure test tomorrow morning now that the air is purged and the engine will be cold.

I also needed a replacement radiator cap. It wouldn't even hold a single PSI it was that bad. I love radiator pressure testers!