EVO or WRX
LancerEVO
05-29-2003, 03:53 PM
What is better a Lancer EVO or a WRX?
turbo2nr
05-29-2003, 04:18 PM
ummm...
depends what you are lookin for
itz like askin whats better "apple or oranges"?
i like the wrx because of the massive 2.5l turbo motor that makes 300hp
but i also like the lance cause of the styling and better creature comforts it all depends what you like..
btw
WELCOME
1
depends what you are lookin for
itz like askin whats better "apple or oranges"?
i like the wrx because of the massive 2.5l turbo motor that makes 300hp
but i also like the lance cause of the styling and better creature comforts it all depends what you like..
btw
WELCOME
1
EJ20
05-29-2003, 04:22 PM
WRX STi? or shitty WRX like mine?
STi is better altho every single magazine said the oppisite
STi comes with forged internal, but 2.5L is known to be not reliable as the 2.0, I guess time will show it all
STi with intake, downpipe, boost controll, and SAFCII
http://www.godspeedinc.com/images/DynoDPHPBC.jpg
EVO with dp , hoses, boost controll SAFCII, new radiator and larger FMIC
http://www.pruvenperformance.com/images/aldyno3.JPG
STi is better altho every single magazine said the oppisite
STi comes with forged internal, but 2.5L is known to be not reliable as the 2.0, I guess time will show it all
STi with intake, downpipe, boost controll, and SAFCII
http://www.godspeedinc.com/images/DynoDPHPBC.jpg
EVO with dp , hoses, boost controll SAFCII, new radiator and larger FMIC
http://www.pruvenperformance.com/images/aldyno3.JPG
Neutrino
05-29-2003, 04:33 PM
welcome to Af but please learn how to use the diffent sections:
car comparisons>EVOvsSTi....
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t104109.html
car comparisons>EVOvsSTi....
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t104109.html
KrNxRaCer00
05-29-2003, 05:27 PM
welcome to the boards...
before this gets moved...STI > EVO
but thas jus my take on it :D
before this gets moved...STI > EVO
but thas jus my take on it :D
Neutrino
05-29-2003, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by KrNxRaCer00
welcome to the boards...
before this gets moved...STI > EVO
but thas jus my take on it :D
thers is already a thread sterted there about it
welcome to the boards...
before this gets moved...STI > EVO
but thas jus my take on it :D
thers is already a thread sterted there about it
KrNxRaCer00
05-29-2003, 06:11 PM
damnit...im always late :hehehe: ah well...i'll let this bad boy die...
LjasonL
05-29-2003, 07:02 PM
The WRX was never meant to compete with the EVO. The EVO is a better car in every way, which is why it costs 6 grand more. The STi is the EVO's competition.
Self
05-30-2003, 01:36 AM
Like someone else said, check out the car comparisons forum and you'll find this very thread already there. And welcome:)
Neutrino
05-30-2003, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by Self
Like someone else said, check out the car comparisons forum and you'll find this very thread already there. And welcome:)
so now I'm someone else...that hurts:( ...guess i'm not important enough to be remembered by the all powerful mods
:D :p
Like someone else said, check out the car comparisons forum and you'll find this very thread already there. And welcome:)
so now I'm someone else...that hurts:( ...guess i'm not important enough to be remembered by the all powerful mods
:D :p
LjasonL
05-30-2003, 04:52 AM
Originally posted by Self
Like someone else said, check out the car comparisons forum and you'll find this very thread already there. And welcome:)
Yeah I read that. But while I cared enough about the topic to post my thought, I cared not enough to go find the car comparisons forum to post it in. :p
Like someone else said, check out the car comparisons forum and you'll find this very thread already there. And welcome:)
Yeah I read that. But while I cared enough about the topic to post my thought, I cared not enough to go find the car comparisons forum to post it in. :p
NSX-R-SSJ20K
05-30-2003, 05:31 AM
WRX Sti by far
It has natural characteristics whereas the EVO uses Electronics to go fast. The thing is the Electronics reduces tire wear on the EVO and its probably easier to drive but the naturallness of the WRX far surpasses the EVO. They used a symetric layout and design on the Impreza so that weight is as evenly distributed as possible. It like 48/52 or something like that left and right weight loads are almost equal whereas the EVO is a mess. The WRX has the gearbox mounted behind the front axle and the engine is roughly above the front axle to give better weight distribution. Generally it makes me thing that Subaru has spent alot of time playing with the layout.
Both of the Cars are extremely hard to tune as they are both highly sprung so ignorant mods like aftermarket exhausts (which are crap) can shift torque from a point in the rev range where it is needed.
The Sti i am talking about is the J-Spec one but i heard that Subaru increased the displacement and spent alot more work on the US-Spec Sti so that it would enter that market with a bang
Also The EVO in standard release form in the US is poo it does not come with AYC or ACD (Active Yaw Control or Active Center Diffs (*EVO's have electronically controlled rear diffs the front ones are regular LSD's)
I'd only buy an EVO if it had Both of these features otherwise you'll get creamed by a Subaru when it comes to corners.
As i feared it has mechanical diffs
http://www.mitsucars.com/lancerevolution/specs.html
Don't get it its not worth it. AYC and ACD is what makes it the EVO its more like a DEVO with out it.
It has natural characteristics whereas the EVO uses Electronics to go fast. The thing is the Electronics reduces tire wear on the EVO and its probably easier to drive but the naturallness of the WRX far surpasses the EVO. They used a symetric layout and design on the Impreza so that weight is as evenly distributed as possible. It like 48/52 or something like that left and right weight loads are almost equal whereas the EVO is a mess. The WRX has the gearbox mounted behind the front axle and the engine is roughly above the front axle to give better weight distribution. Generally it makes me thing that Subaru has spent alot of time playing with the layout.
Both of the Cars are extremely hard to tune as they are both highly sprung so ignorant mods like aftermarket exhausts (which are crap) can shift torque from a point in the rev range where it is needed.
The Sti i am talking about is the J-Spec one but i heard that Subaru increased the displacement and spent alot more work on the US-Spec Sti so that it would enter that market with a bang
Also The EVO in standard release form in the US is poo it does not come with AYC or ACD (Active Yaw Control or Active Center Diffs (*EVO's have electronically controlled rear diffs the front ones are regular LSD's)
I'd only buy an EVO if it had Both of these features otherwise you'll get creamed by a Subaru when it comes to corners.
As i feared it has mechanical diffs
http://www.mitsucars.com/lancerevolution/specs.html
Don't get it its not worth it. AYC and ACD is what makes it the EVO its more like a DEVO with out it.
Neutrino
05-30-2003, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by NSX-R-SSJ20K
WRX Sti by far
It has natural characteristics whereas the EVO uses Electronics to go fast. The thing is the Electronics reduces tire wear on the EVO and its probably easier to drive but the naturallness of the WRX far surpasses the EVO. They used a symetric layout and design on the Impreza so that weight is as evenly distributed as possible. It like 48/52 or something like that left and right weight loads are almost equal whereas the EVO is a mess. The WRX has the gearbox mounted behind the front axle and the engine is roughly above the front axle to give better weight distribution. Generally it makes me thing that Subaru has spent alot of time playing with the layout.
Both of the Cars are extremely hard to tune as they are both highly sprung so ignorant mods like aftermarket exhausts (which are crap) can shift torque from a point in the rev range where it is needed.
The Sti i am talking about is the J-Spec one but i heard that Subaru increased the displacement and spent alot more work on the US-Spec Sti so that it would enter that market with a bang
Also The EVO in standard release form in the US is poo it does not come with AYC or ACD (Active Yaw Control or Active Center Diffs (*EVO's have electronically controlled rear diffs the front ones are regular LSD's)
I'd only buy an EVO if it had Both of these features otherwise you'll get creamed by a Subaru when it comes to corners.
As i feared it has mechanical diffs
http://www.mitsucars.com/lancerevolution/specs.html
Don't get it its not worth it. AYC and ACD is what makes it the EVO its more like a DEVO with out it.
I'm sorry NSX but you are way off....they both have been tested and the evo kills the STI in corners even with that AYC....the handling advantage of the evo more than makes up for the slight power deficit....of and BTw they have very similar acceleration numbers
oh and you said that upgrading the exaust will move the toque way high on the rev race making it unpractical....well that is true on NA cars but on turbo cars the less backpressure you have the more power you'll have all over the rev range.
WRX Sti by far
It has natural characteristics whereas the EVO uses Electronics to go fast. The thing is the Electronics reduces tire wear on the EVO and its probably easier to drive but the naturallness of the WRX far surpasses the EVO. They used a symetric layout and design on the Impreza so that weight is as evenly distributed as possible. It like 48/52 or something like that left and right weight loads are almost equal whereas the EVO is a mess. The WRX has the gearbox mounted behind the front axle and the engine is roughly above the front axle to give better weight distribution. Generally it makes me thing that Subaru has spent alot of time playing with the layout.
Both of the Cars are extremely hard to tune as they are both highly sprung so ignorant mods like aftermarket exhausts (which are crap) can shift torque from a point in the rev range where it is needed.
The Sti i am talking about is the J-Spec one but i heard that Subaru increased the displacement and spent alot more work on the US-Spec Sti so that it would enter that market with a bang
Also The EVO in standard release form in the US is poo it does not come with AYC or ACD (Active Yaw Control or Active Center Diffs (*EVO's have electronically controlled rear diffs the front ones are regular LSD's)
I'd only buy an EVO if it had Both of these features otherwise you'll get creamed by a Subaru when it comes to corners.
As i feared it has mechanical diffs
http://www.mitsucars.com/lancerevolution/specs.html
Don't get it its not worth it. AYC and ACD is what makes it the EVO its more like a DEVO with out it.
I'm sorry NSX but you are way off....they both have been tested and the evo kills the STI in corners even with that AYC....the handling advantage of the evo more than makes up for the slight power deficit....of and BTw they have very similar acceleration numbers
oh and you said that upgrading the exaust will move the toque way high on the rev race making it unpractical....well that is true on NA cars but on turbo cars the less backpressure you have the more power you'll have all over the rev range.
NSX-R-SSJ20K
05-30-2003, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by Neutrino
I'm sorry NSX but you are way off....they both have been tested and the evo kills the STI in corners even with that AYC....the handling advantage of the evo more than makes up for the slight power deficit....of and BTw they have very similar acceleration numbers
oh and you said that upgrading the exaust will move the toque way high on the rev race making it unpractical....well that is true on NA cars but on turbo cars the less backpressure you have the more power you'll have all over the rev range.
Wrong Wrong Wrong
Did you understand what i said NO
EVO 8 (only and only if it has AYC AND ACD) = WRX STI
other wise its
US SPEC EVO 8 (NO look see NO AYC AND ACD) < US SPEC WRX STI
And i'm sorry to say i stand by my comment that Sti's and EVO are highly sprung and only if you either buy a decent exhaust or heavily tune will you reap benefits from the engines. Evo's because of their AYC ACD's can enter corners and brake later
STI's and this is FACT they can corner faster because of their balance
And i actually qouted the last thing its not my personnal opinion it comes from a reputed source and i don't think i would question the guy since he knows more than you.
Also you don't understand why the STi is better. It's natural and a drivers car it doesn't use Computers to make it fast so it is therefore more balanced.
So basically if you look at the development strategies behind both companies you see that
Mitsu = Computer Aided devices
Subaru = balance and the use of their Symmetrical layout.
and if it is true that the US SPEC Sti isn't better than the EVO
then they both took a step backwards
And once again i have to point this out because i don't think you understand why the EVO is fast
It has active yaw control and active center differentials
Active Yaw Control
Mitsubishi's Active Yaw Control traction enhancement system uses a computer to optimally regulate torque transfer in the rear differential on 4WD models and thereby tailor rear wheel differentials to match driver operation and vehicle operating status. In this way, MMC's proprietary system both equalizes the load on the four tires by adaptively regulating the yaw moment that acts on the body and improves cornering performance without inducing any sense of deceleration.
When accelerating through a corner, AYC reduces understeer by transferring torque to the outer wheel; when decelerating in a corner, AYC enhances stability by transferring torque to the inner wheel. AYC also improves traction on surfaces with low or split friction coefficients and has fully proven its worth since it was first introduced in Evolution IV.
For Evolution VII, all parts of the torque transfer mechanism of rear differential have been uprated to match the increase in engine torque, while breather and clutch operating durability have been improved. The system shares the same computer, hydraulic actuator unit and sensors as the ACD, thus reducing weight and improving reliability.
.
Integrated ACD & AYC system control
On Evolution VII, control of the ACD and AYC systems is integrated by computer. ACD control is based on: (1) A feedback control strategy to improve vehicle stability by keeping actual body attitude as close as possible to pre-determined attitudes as derived from steering angle and vehicle speed and, (2) A feedforward control strategy that responds rapidly to driver acceleration and deceleration actions. By combining these strategies in an optimal manner, ACD achieves the outstanding stability of a full-time 4WD vehicle and enhances steering response while realizing the superior traction of locked up 4-wheel drive. In the integrated system, ACD feedback and feedforward information is transmitted to the AYC control system using parameters in such a way that the larger the ACD differential limiting force is, the larger the yaw moment generated by the AYC system.
This precise and integrated control operates so that, for example when accelerating out of a corner, the ACD enhances traction and the AYC enhances steering response and cornering performance. And because of its seamless nature, the driver is unaware of the integrated system as it operates to improve acceleration and handling more than the ACD and AYC systems would if they were operating independently.
ACD+AYC control schematic Reduces slippage in proportion to deceleration to improve stability.
Increases slippage in proportion to steering angle and steering input speed to improve steering through corner Reduces slippage in proportion to throttle opening to boost traction Transfers torque to outer wheel to match steering angle and steering input speed, to improve steering through corner.
Transfers torque to outer wheel in proportion to throttle opening to reduce understeer and improve cornering performance (In cornering under deceleration, reduces oversteer by transferring torque to inside wheel)
and guess what The US spec Evo has neither of these extremely important devices that make it fast whilst the US Spec Sti has had nothing removed and has been uprated for the US Market it also has more power than the US Spec Evo. I also doubt that Subaru Technica International would throw away their tuning philosiphy and produce a lemon of a vehicle that wouldn't beat an EVO that has had its advantages removed do you?
some interesting specs
EVO 8 US SPEC
Horsepower @ rpm (SAE net): 271@6500
WRX Sti
Horsepower 300hp@6000 rpm
Year 2004 2003
Make Subaru Mitsubishi
Model Impreza Lancer
Trim WRX Sti (USA) Evolution (USA)
Transmission 6-speed Manual 5-speed Manual
Theoretical Top Speed 154 mph 153 mph
Limited Top Speed 146 mph
0-30 mph 1.42 s 1.47 s
0-40 mph 2.49 s 2.48 s
0-50 mph 3.39 s 3.49 s
0-60 mph 4.88 s 4.94 s
0-70 mph 6.19 s 6.44 s
0-80 mph 8.19 s 8.49 s
0-90 mph 10.09 s 10.68 s
0-100 mph 12.49 s 13.32 s
0-110 mph 15.88 s 17.04 s
0-120 mph 19.53 s 21.36 s
0-130 mph 24.62 s 26.98 s
0-140 mph 33.44 s 35.40 s
0-150 mph 50.05 s 54.87 s
30-50, 2nd gear 1.67 s 1.85 s
100 ft 2.59 s @ 40.99 mph 2.61 s @ 41.29 mph
500 ft 7.13 s @ 73.92 mph 7.19 s @ 74.36 mph
660 ft (1/8 mile) 8.53 s @ 81.93 mph 8.60 s @ 80.55 mph
1320 ft (1/4 mile) 13.36 s @ 102.25 mph 13.53 s @ 101.36 mph
2640 ft (1/2 mile) 21.27 s @ 123.88 mph 21.62 s @ 120.54 mph
5280 ft (1 mile) 34.74 s @ 141.21 mph 35.31 s @ 139.92 mph
7920 ft (1.5 mile) 47.10 s @ 148.92 mph 47.78 s @ 147.74 mph
So as you can see the times on the left are the US Spec Subaru's and the times on the right are the US EVO's which indicate the EVO is slower so sorry
:finger:
I'm sorry NSX but you are way off....they both have been tested and the evo kills the STI in corners even with that AYC....the handling advantage of the evo more than makes up for the slight power deficit....of and BTw they have very similar acceleration numbers
oh and you said that upgrading the exaust will move the toque way high on the rev race making it unpractical....well that is true on NA cars but on turbo cars the less backpressure you have the more power you'll have all over the rev range.
Wrong Wrong Wrong
Did you understand what i said NO
EVO 8 (only and only if it has AYC AND ACD) = WRX STI
other wise its
US SPEC EVO 8 (NO look see NO AYC AND ACD) < US SPEC WRX STI
And i'm sorry to say i stand by my comment that Sti's and EVO are highly sprung and only if you either buy a decent exhaust or heavily tune will you reap benefits from the engines. Evo's because of their AYC ACD's can enter corners and brake later
STI's and this is FACT they can corner faster because of their balance
And i actually qouted the last thing its not my personnal opinion it comes from a reputed source and i don't think i would question the guy since he knows more than you.
Also you don't understand why the STi is better. It's natural and a drivers car it doesn't use Computers to make it fast so it is therefore more balanced.
So basically if you look at the development strategies behind both companies you see that
Mitsu = Computer Aided devices
Subaru = balance and the use of their Symmetrical layout.
and if it is true that the US SPEC Sti isn't better than the EVO
then they both took a step backwards
And once again i have to point this out because i don't think you understand why the EVO is fast
It has active yaw control and active center differentials
Active Yaw Control
Mitsubishi's Active Yaw Control traction enhancement system uses a computer to optimally regulate torque transfer in the rear differential on 4WD models and thereby tailor rear wheel differentials to match driver operation and vehicle operating status. In this way, MMC's proprietary system both equalizes the load on the four tires by adaptively regulating the yaw moment that acts on the body and improves cornering performance without inducing any sense of deceleration.
When accelerating through a corner, AYC reduces understeer by transferring torque to the outer wheel; when decelerating in a corner, AYC enhances stability by transferring torque to the inner wheel. AYC also improves traction on surfaces with low or split friction coefficients and has fully proven its worth since it was first introduced in Evolution IV.
For Evolution VII, all parts of the torque transfer mechanism of rear differential have been uprated to match the increase in engine torque, while breather and clutch operating durability have been improved. The system shares the same computer, hydraulic actuator unit and sensors as the ACD, thus reducing weight and improving reliability.
.
Integrated ACD & AYC system control
On Evolution VII, control of the ACD and AYC systems is integrated by computer. ACD control is based on: (1) A feedback control strategy to improve vehicle stability by keeping actual body attitude as close as possible to pre-determined attitudes as derived from steering angle and vehicle speed and, (2) A feedforward control strategy that responds rapidly to driver acceleration and deceleration actions. By combining these strategies in an optimal manner, ACD achieves the outstanding stability of a full-time 4WD vehicle and enhances steering response while realizing the superior traction of locked up 4-wheel drive. In the integrated system, ACD feedback and feedforward information is transmitted to the AYC control system using parameters in such a way that the larger the ACD differential limiting force is, the larger the yaw moment generated by the AYC system.
This precise and integrated control operates so that, for example when accelerating out of a corner, the ACD enhances traction and the AYC enhances steering response and cornering performance. And because of its seamless nature, the driver is unaware of the integrated system as it operates to improve acceleration and handling more than the ACD and AYC systems would if they were operating independently.
ACD+AYC control schematic Reduces slippage in proportion to deceleration to improve stability.
Increases slippage in proportion to steering angle and steering input speed to improve steering through corner Reduces slippage in proportion to throttle opening to boost traction Transfers torque to outer wheel to match steering angle and steering input speed, to improve steering through corner.
Transfers torque to outer wheel in proportion to throttle opening to reduce understeer and improve cornering performance (In cornering under deceleration, reduces oversteer by transferring torque to inside wheel)
and guess what The US spec Evo has neither of these extremely important devices that make it fast whilst the US Spec Sti has had nothing removed and has been uprated for the US Market it also has more power than the US Spec Evo. I also doubt that Subaru Technica International would throw away their tuning philosiphy and produce a lemon of a vehicle that wouldn't beat an EVO that has had its advantages removed do you?
some interesting specs
EVO 8 US SPEC
Horsepower @ rpm (SAE net): 271@6500
WRX Sti
Horsepower 300hp@6000 rpm
Year 2004 2003
Make Subaru Mitsubishi
Model Impreza Lancer
Trim WRX Sti (USA) Evolution (USA)
Transmission 6-speed Manual 5-speed Manual
Theoretical Top Speed 154 mph 153 mph
Limited Top Speed 146 mph
0-30 mph 1.42 s 1.47 s
0-40 mph 2.49 s 2.48 s
0-50 mph 3.39 s 3.49 s
0-60 mph 4.88 s 4.94 s
0-70 mph 6.19 s 6.44 s
0-80 mph 8.19 s 8.49 s
0-90 mph 10.09 s 10.68 s
0-100 mph 12.49 s 13.32 s
0-110 mph 15.88 s 17.04 s
0-120 mph 19.53 s 21.36 s
0-130 mph 24.62 s 26.98 s
0-140 mph 33.44 s 35.40 s
0-150 mph 50.05 s 54.87 s
30-50, 2nd gear 1.67 s 1.85 s
100 ft 2.59 s @ 40.99 mph 2.61 s @ 41.29 mph
500 ft 7.13 s @ 73.92 mph 7.19 s @ 74.36 mph
660 ft (1/8 mile) 8.53 s @ 81.93 mph 8.60 s @ 80.55 mph
1320 ft (1/4 mile) 13.36 s @ 102.25 mph 13.53 s @ 101.36 mph
2640 ft (1/2 mile) 21.27 s @ 123.88 mph 21.62 s @ 120.54 mph
5280 ft (1 mile) 34.74 s @ 141.21 mph 35.31 s @ 139.92 mph
7920 ft (1.5 mile) 47.10 s @ 148.92 mph 47.78 s @ 147.74 mph
So as you can see the times on the left are the US Spec Subaru's and the times on the right are the US EVO's which indicate the EVO is slower so sorry
:finger:
turbo2nr
05-30-2003, 10:21 AM
holy sh*t
:eek: :eek:
is all that necessary??
:eek: :eek:
is all that necessary??
DemonZX
05-30-2003, 01:14 PM
Dunn! Dunn! Dua! Dunnna!!!;)
Neutrino
05-30-2003, 03:00 PM
Ok all that copy and paste it is not that impresive especially since i already read almost everything about both cars.
first you start by saing again some bs about electronics well read this the US spec STI has an almost identical AYC system with the JDM spec evo....so the differetial on the STI is computerised and you say that the subaru dos not use computers.....this shows how much you know
and when i say that the US EVO WAS PROVEN to be better at handling than the STI.....that is a fact....unless you are better driver than all the test drivers that wrote about it Including a former profesional rally driver....they all agreed on the same thing.....So unless you can prove that you test drove them both and you are better driver that those guys....you are wrong
and learn more about TURBO engines that just watching Initial D........a better flowing exaust will make huge differences on turbo cars.....i bet borla and some of the other guys will make a replacement verey soon....probably starting with the downpipe.....uless the system already on the evos or STI is perfect which i doubt it is the downpipe of a standard WRX is totally crapy designed....and a new downpipe will make huge diffrences......i'm sure the aftermarket will come up with something better than the current setup
first you start by saing again some bs about electronics well read this the US spec STI has an almost identical AYC system with the JDM spec evo....so the differetial on the STI is computerised and you say that the subaru dos not use computers.....this shows how much you know
and when i say that the US EVO WAS PROVEN to be better at handling than the STI.....that is a fact....unless you are better driver than all the test drivers that wrote about it Including a former profesional rally driver....they all agreed on the same thing.....So unless you can prove that you test drove them both and you are better driver that those guys....you are wrong
and learn more about TURBO engines that just watching Initial D........a better flowing exaust will make huge differences on turbo cars.....i bet borla and some of the other guys will make a replacement verey soon....probably starting with the downpipe.....uless the system already on the evos or STI is perfect which i doubt it is the downpipe of a standard WRX is totally crapy designed....and a new downpipe will make huge diffrences......i'm sure the aftermarket will come up with something better than the current setup
NSX-R-SSJ20K
05-30-2003, 07:54 PM
whats Initial D gotta do with anything you think thats funny ?
edited for Neutrino sense of maturity o wait he has none because of the above.
Ok i now yield on all fronts about the US Spec stuff cuz i don't really know
I do know more about the previous Spec STI's and for a fact i know they never had Suretrac LSD's before and i guess that the Suretrac LSD needs to be binned for some Cusco 1 Way diffs and tuned accordingly
no wait ahem it seems the Suretracs are developed by an English company Called AP or Automotive Products. Damn man i can't find anything out about something that is electronic like the Active Yaw Control or active Center Differencials
Its a guess which means it sounds like either A) Mitsu's chassis set-up has got better on the EVO 8 over the EVO 7
or be the STI US SPEC is a load of shit and that their electronics need alot more adjustment or maybe the BMI drivers are better drivers than people who drive cadillacs all day.
I'd also like to point out that there were no Electronically Variable diffs on the previous imprezas altho i have only find evidence of a driver control device which can change the set up of the Diffs but not any real time computer aided device.
either way i would still pick the STI because its not coming out in the up and coming 2 FAST 2 FURIOUS which is idolised by the Domestic Ricers as much as the Import Ricers
Just by looking at the Mistu website you can tell that they are pandering to them
O and the thing about the Turbo tuning thats nice I think i'll have to email your post to The technical people at Best Motoring since i really did believe that they knew alot more than you so now i'm going to have to correct them for you so that you're never wrong again.
O and could you tell me the Weight Distributions of both cars since you know more than me about the US Spec Cars
All-Wheel Drive (AWD) Full-time AWD system automatically distributes power between front and rear wheels based on traction needs. WRX STi models have a Driver Controlled Center Differential (DCCD) with Automatic Mode. DCCD utilizes a planetary center differential in conjunction with an electronically managed continuously variable transfer clutch.
Can you explain to me what parts of this DCCD makes the car go faster like the AYC and ACD?
I'd also like to point out the 1/4 mile times
the STI is faster
and secondly i have seen a UK Spec STi and UK Spec EVO (that has AYC and ACD) and they act very differently. The guy reviewing them said the Evo is easier to skid because of its computer controlled Diffs whilst the STi lastest version you have to give it a rally drivers flick and this guys name is Tiff Needle a former F1 driver and former BTCC driver.
Usually when a reviewer says a car is crap its because they don't know how to drive and since i have seen a reviewer who comments on cars which he knows not how to drive properly and then on the same exact show a person who can drive gets into the same exact car and drives it like its a completely different car.
PS i am saying whatever you read or watched the reviewers on those programs can't drive for shit
edited for Neutrino sense of maturity o wait he has none because of the above.
Ok i now yield on all fronts about the US Spec stuff cuz i don't really know
I do know more about the previous Spec STI's and for a fact i know they never had Suretrac LSD's before and i guess that the Suretrac LSD needs to be binned for some Cusco 1 Way diffs and tuned accordingly
no wait ahem it seems the Suretracs are developed by an English company Called AP or Automotive Products. Damn man i can't find anything out about something that is electronic like the Active Yaw Control or active Center Differencials
Its a guess which means it sounds like either A) Mitsu's chassis set-up has got better on the EVO 8 over the EVO 7
or be the STI US SPEC is a load of shit and that their electronics need alot more adjustment or maybe the BMI drivers are better drivers than people who drive cadillacs all day.
I'd also like to point out that there were no Electronically Variable diffs on the previous imprezas altho i have only find evidence of a driver control device which can change the set up of the Diffs but not any real time computer aided device.
either way i would still pick the STI because its not coming out in the up and coming 2 FAST 2 FURIOUS which is idolised by the Domestic Ricers as much as the Import Ricers
Just by looking at the Mistu website you can tell that they are pandering to them
O and the thing about the Turbo tuning thats nice I think i'll have to email your post to The technical people at Best Motoring since i really did believe that they knew alot more than you so now i'm going to have to correct them for you so that you're never wrong again.
O and could you tell me the Weight Distributions of both cars since you know more than me about the US Spec Cars
All-Wheel Drive (AWD) Full-time AWD system automatically distributes power between front and rear wheels based on traction needs. WRX STi models have a Driver Controlled Center Differential (DCCD) with Automatic Mode. DCCD utilizes a planetary center differential in conjunction with an electronically managed continuously variable transfer clutch.
Can you explain to me what parts of this DCCD makes the car go faster like the AYC and ACD?
I'd also like to point out the 1/4 mile times
the STI is faster
and secondly i have seen a UK Spec STi and UK Spec EVO (that has AYC and ACD) and they act very differently. The guy reviewing them said the Evo is easier to skid because of its computer controlled Diffs whilst the STi lastest version you have to give it a rally drivers flick and this guys name is Tiff Needle a former F1 driver and former BTCC driver.
Usually when a reviewer says a car is crap its because they don't know how to drive and since i have seen a reviewer who comments on cars which he knows not how to drive properly and then on the same exact show a person who can drive gets into the same exact car and drives it like its a completely different car.
PS i am saying whatever you read or watched the reviewers on those programs can't drive for shit
RACER D12
05-30-2003, 09:25 PM
I got to go with the STI. I like both cars but it just seems like the EVO8 took a step down from past EVOs and thats never a good sign. However the STI is seems took a step up. Also the STI has more dissplacement so theoretically it has more room to improve. One more thing the EVO is being marked up to and above 40k:eek: way to much money. I hope Mitshu makes a come back soon.
2of9
05-31-2003, 01:13 AM
i'd go for the Evo8, bcuz it cost a lilo less than the WRX and...yep:confused:
Neutrino
05-31-2003, 01:47 AM
ok thank you for being an adult and calling me a f*** prick...yes that show you maturity right there.
and ok so you told me twice that i am wrong about when i say that a better flowing exaust will help the turbo.....if you know so much about turbo's why don't you post in the forced induction forum and help people with your knowlege instead of postwhoring here.....
and several mazines have tested the evo and they all said the samne thing the EVO handles better...they must all be morons right.......
also i have one of the articles of car and driver right in front of me.....they had Rob Millen test both cars....btw this guy was the fastest man to Pikes Peak six times in a row and dominated a litle while ago rally racing in New Zealand and the US.....yeah what does he know....
this is a direct quote from him:" The Subaru just feels a lot more nervous than the Mitsubishi,I'm not as confortable in it. Its responses are less predictable"
" The Mitsubishi is more comfortable to drive at the limit"
well if you disagree with him you might consider giving him a call and tell him about your performances in rally racing
so before you say that those guy can't drive for crap please have the curtesy of proving you are better than them.....that will gve you the right to say so
and ok so you told me twice that i am wrong about when i say that a better flowing exaust will help the turbo.....if you know so much about turbo's why don't you post in the forced induction forum and help people with your knowlege instead of postwhoring here.....
and several mazines have tested the evo and they all said the samne thing the EVO handles better...they must all be morons right.......
also i have one of the articles of car and driver right in front of me.....they had Rob Millen test both cars....btw this guy was the fastest man to Pikes Peak six times in a row and dominated a litle while ago rally racing in New Zealand and the US.....yeah what does he know....
this is a direct quote from him:" The Subaru just feels a lot more nervous than the Mitsubishi,I'm not as confortable in it. Its responses are less predictable"
" The Mitsubishi is more comfortable to drive at the limit"
well if you disagree with him you might consider giving him a call and tell him about your performances in rally racing
so before you say that those guy can't drive for crap please have the curtesy of proving you are better than them.....that will gve you the right to say so
Polygon
05-31-2003, 01:56 PM
NSX, watch it!
That was uncalled for, I don't want to close this thread because of a flame war which is what you're looking at doing by typing things like that.
Tone it down.
That was uncalled for, I don't want to close this thread because of a flame war which is what you're looking at doing by typing things like that.
Tone it down.
gti1689
06-01-2003, 09:41 PM
I don't want to get this brawl started again, but i just want to state my opinion. Personally, I think comparing the evo 8 and the sti is similar to comparing apples and oranges. They scream two similar, yet different themes. Both have a rally image and roots, but I look at the sti and think of it as the hot rod (sort of crude-hood scoop-and loaded with power). I think of the evo as the scalpel (as in, it is meant to be used in only one fashion-driving all out).
nsx, i think i understand what you are saying about how subaru engineers don't rely on electronics as heavily as the mitsu, but in the end the driving experince (electronic or not) is what matters.
i agree with the fact that the subaru is faster in straight-line acceleration, yet with around 25 more hp and .5 liters, than the evo, it should be.
i know that since you [nsx] live in britain you would think the US magazines inferior to a british publication like topgear or car. being an avid reader of evo, topgear, and car magazine i thought i could give you some quotes from those magazines instead of some silly US publication. hopefully, the editors of the above mentioned mags aren't considered morons in your mind also.
EVO Magazine issue 053 march 2003
subaru sti ppp
300 hp 299 lb ft of torque
2.0 liters
0-60 = 5.3 seconds (according to this issue od EVO)
1-100 = 14.2 (")
quarter mile in 13.9 seconds (")
lapped the bedford autodrome in 1:25.15 in the dry
EVO Magazine issue 055 may 2003 (featured in a test w/porsche cayenne)
mitsubishi evolution q280 (base-not fq300, or upcoming fq320)
276 hp 289 lb ft
2.0 liters
0-60 = 5.1 secongs (est. by mag)
lapped the bedford autodrome in 1:22.85 (ahead of porsche 911 carrera by .35 of a second)
I realize that this is the euro evo 8 with the acd and all of that other stuff and this is the 2.0 euro sti with the prodrive pack, but it still has 300 hp. both of these cars are as close as i can get to the american versions in a much more respectable european car magazine.
CAR Magazine may 2003
Mitsubishi q280 and subaru sti ppp
"But despite the Subaru's ovbious mechanical strengths, and despite the fact that this one did feel an improvement on the last Impreza i drove lasd year, as an overall package it's the Evo VIII that feels absolutley spot on. The impreza still looks a bit wild, a bit overdone, and the turbo-charged japenese rally car market has surely moved on. the evo has the wing aand the bulging arches, but it has a clean look that's matched by the cool, sharp efficientcy of the way it drives-light, quick, and razor sharp. it may be more expensive than the standard imprezaaa, and the cult surrounding it may be less fervent, but the Evo VIII is the car i'd rather drive-quickly-everyday."
Car and Driver Magazine june 2003
mitsubishi evo 8 (us spec) vs. subaru sti (us spec)
regarding the mitsu
" the highest praise we can bestow on a performance car is this: we feel immediatley comfortable driving it quickly. to a man, all three aof our testers independantley wrote exactly that, literally, in the evo's logbook."
rob millen on the evo's steering
" Don't you sometimes want a slower ratio on the dirt? we asked. too kind a man to say, "no you moron!" he instead replied, "no, for racing, quicker is always better."
rob millen on the sti and the evo
"the evo is surprisingly different from the subaru. it's clearly not as powerful, but it's not as nervous either, " millen continued. "the mitsu is more comfortable to drive at the limit." we believe him because he told he this calmy as we slid smoothly through a sweepong turn at 80mph. the evo's lack of a limited -slip front differential might have landicapped it launching out of corners, but it negotiated them faster anyway."
ovbiously, i am in favor of the evo even if it s slower than the sti, but i thinki have poved that the evo really has the advantage in the handling department (us and euro version's-i could have given more quotes from more us mags, but the outcome was always that same-evo wins, handles better-and i am getting tired of typing). the sti is faster and it is a great car, but living with my gti i have come to appreciate how important a car's handling is because my stock suspension provides plaenty of body roll.
hope this doesn't flare uop and tempers.
cheers
nsx, i think i understand what you are saying about how subaru engineers don't rely on electronics as heavily as the mitsu, but in the end the driving experince (electronic or not) is what matters.
i agree with the fact that the subaru is faster in straight-line acceleration, yet with around 25 more hp and .5 liters, than the evo, it should be.
i know that since you [nsx] live in britain you would think the US magazines inferior to a british publication like topgear or car. being an avid reader of evo, topgear, and car magazine i thought i could give you some quotes from those magazines instead of some silly US publication. hopefully, the editors of the above mentioned mags aren't considered morons in your mind also.
EVO Magazine issue 053 march 2003
subaru sti ppp
300 hp 299 lb ft of torque
2.0 liters
0-60 = 5.3 seconds (according to this issue od EVO)
1-100 = 14.2 (")
quarter mile in 13.9 seconds (")
lapped the bedford autodrome in 1:25.15 in the dry
EVO Magazine issue 055 may 2003 (featured in a test w/porsche cayenne)
mitsubishi evolution q280 (base-not fq300, or upcoming fq320)
276 hp 289 lb ft
2.0 liters
0-60 = 5.1 secongs (est. by mag)
lapped the bedford autodrome in 1:22.85 (ahead of porsche 911 carrera by .35 of a second)
I realize that this is the euro evo 8 with the acd and all of that other stuff and this is the 2.0 euro sti with the prodrive pack, but it still has 300 hp. both of these cars are as close as i can get to the american versions in a much more respectable european car magazine.
CAR Magazine may 2003
Mitsubishi q280 and subaru sti ppp
"But despite the Subaru's ovbious mechanical strengths, and despite the fact that this one did feel an improvement on the last Impreza i drove lasd year, as an overall package it's the Evo VIII that feels absolutley spot on. The impreza still looks a bit wild, a bit overdone, and the turbo-charged japenese rally car market has surely moved on. the evo has the wing aand the bulging arches, but it has a clean look that's matched by the cool, sharp efficientcy of the way it drives-light, quick, and razor sharp. it may be more expensive than the standard imprezaaa, and the cult surrounding it may be less fervent, but the Evo VIII is the car i'd rather drive-quickly-everyday."
Car and Driver Magazine june 2003
mitsubishi evo 8 (us spec) vs. subaru sti (us spec)
regarding the mitsu
" the highest praise we can bestow on a performance car is this: we feel immediatley comfortable driving it quickly. to a man, all three aof our testers independantley wrote exactly that, literally, in the evo's logbook."
rob millen on the evo's steering
" Don't you sometimes want a slower ratio on the dirt? we asked. too kind a man to say, "no you moron!" he instead replied, "no, for racing, quicker is always better."
rob millen on the sti and the evo
"the evo is surprisingly different from the subaru. it's clearly not as powerful, but it's not as nervous either, " millen continued. "the mitsu is more comfortable to drive at the limit." we believe him because he told he this calmy as we slid smoothly through a sweepong turn at 80mph. the evo's lack of a limited -slip front differential might have landicapped it launching out of corners, but it negotiated them faster anyway."
ovbiously, i am in favor of the evo even if it s slower than the sti, but i thinki have poved that the evo really has the advantage in the handling department (us and euro version's-i could have given more quotes from more us mags, but the outcome was always that same-evo wins, handles better-and i am getting tired of typing). the sti is faster and it is a great car, but living with my gti i have come to appreciate how important a car's handling is because my stock suspension provides plaenty of body roll.
hope this doesn't flare uop and tempers.
cheers
gti1689
06-01-2003, 09:43 PM
anyway if one wanted more power from a us evo they could put in a new chip and exhaust. or if they lived in europe they could buy a fq300 or the upcoming fq320. myabr even a sprint model if it becomes available. fq300-better handling us spec sti/sti ppp with equal power.
NSX-R-SSJ20K
06-02-2003, 03:18 AM
Originally posted by Neutrino
ok thank you for being an adult and calling me a f*** prick...yes that show you maturity right there.
and ok so you told me twice that i am wrong about when i say that a better flowing exaust will help the turbo.....if you know so much about turbo's why don't you post in the forced induction forum and help people with your knowlege instead of postwhoring here.....
and several mazines have tested the evo and they all said the samne thing the EVO handles better...they must all be morons right.......
also i have one of the articles of car and driver right in front of me.....they had Rob Millen test both cars....btw this guy was the fastest man to Pikes Peak six times in a row and dominated a litle while ago rally racing in New Zealand and the US.....yeah what does he know....
this is a direct quote from him:" The Subaru just feels a lot more nervous than the Mitsubishi,I'm not as confortable in it. Its responses are less predictable"
" The Mitsubishi is more comfortable to drive at the limit"
well if you disagree with him you might consider giving him a call and tell him about your performances in rally racing
so before you say that those guy can't drive for crap please have the curtesy of proving you are better than them.....that will gve you the right to say so
i am not talking about overall power when you modify a cars exhaust
Sure if you increase flow you see a gain thats a given with turbocharged cars.
What i'm trying to tell you is that Torque is lost from another area in doing so and i don't think you understand what i mean. So here's a reference to a recent magazine publication.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p2550d27bf9d363e0ad9888bb5c27dcb5/fc0554f2.jpg
you might want to save the picture and open it in a bigger viewer its quality is quite high so there's no excuses for misunderstanding what i mean.
This car may have a larger increase in hp but some exhaust take away low down torque in exchange for more horsepower. This is an ignorant mod
I do not mean to say it can be done without the loss of torque i mean to say some people
what you just said isn't the topic in question what you were talking about is electronic traction systems that are present on the WRX STI but i did some research and there aren't any, not as far as i can tell from subaru's website so now i'm asking you to put aside your attacks and tell me what traction control systems are on the WRX?
I don't mean to be disconcerting but two drivers Keiichi Tsyuchiya and Tiff Needle both Prefer the Subaru over the Evo. one is a JGTC Driver the other is an Ex-Formula 1 Driver. But i still yield that this probably has no bearing of the US Sti since they decided to increase displacemenct and modify it for the american market but i don't care about that because thats not what you argued with me about.
Keiichi thought that the Evo's handling had something to be desired. Granted Both cars are as good as each other some people just prefer one too the other. I just said that the STi is better because it was a balanced car versus the Evo which uses Electronic Traction Control Systems that are not available on the US version.
So in a Rally race between both Vehicles the Evo has surely got to loose? Why? because if it didn't then Mitsubishi wasted a freaking lot of money developing a joint AYC ACD system to make their car corner faster.
ok thank you for being an adult and calling me a f*** prick...yes that show you maturity right there.
and ok so you told me twice that i am wrong about when i say that a better flowing exaust will help the turbo.....if you know so much about turbo's why don't you post in the forced induction forum and help people with your knowlege instead of postwhoring here.....
and several mazines have tested the evo and they all said the samne thing the EVO handles better...they must all be morons right.......
also i have one of the articles of car and driver right in front of me.....they had Rob Millen test both cars....btw this guy was the fastest man to Pikes Peak six times in a row and dominated a litle while ago rally racing in New Zealand and the US.....yeah what does he know....
this is a direct quote from him:" The Subaru just feels a lot more nervous than the Mitsubishi,I'm not as confortable in it. Its responses are less predictable"
" The Mitsubishi is more comfortable to drive at the limit"
well if you disagree with him you might consider giving him a call and tell him about your performances in rally racing
so before you say that those guy can't drive for crap please have the curtesy of proving you are better than them.....that will gve you the right to say so
i am not talking about overall power when you modify a cars exhaust
Sure if you increase flow you see a gain thats a given with turbocharged cars.
What i'm trying to tell you is that Torque is lost from another area in doing so and i don't think you understand what i mean. So here's a reference to a recent magazine publication.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p2550d27bf9d363e0ad9888bb5c27dcb5/fc0554f2.jpg
you might want to save the picture and open it in a bigger viewer its quality is quite high so there's no excuses for misunderstanding what i mean.
This car may have a larger increase in hp but some exhaust take away low down torque in exchange for more horsepower. This is an ignorant mod
I do not mean to say it can be done without the loss of torque i mean to say some people
what you just said isn't the topic in question what you were talking about is electronic traction systems that are present on the WRX STI but i did some research and there aren't any, not as far as i can tell from subaru's website so now i'm asking you to put aside your attacks and tell me what traction control systems are on the WRX?
I don't mean to be disconcerting but two drivers Keiichi Tsyuchiya and Tiff Needle both Prefer the Subaru over the Evo. one is a JGTC Driver the other is an Ex-Formula 1 Driver. But i still yield that this probably has no bearing of the US Sti since they decided to increase displacemenct and modify it for the american market but i don't care about that because thats not what you argued with me about.
Keiichi thought that the Evo's handling had something to be desired. Granted Both cars are as good as each other some people just prefer one too the other. I just said that the STi is better because it was a balanced car versus the Evo which uses Electronic Traction Control Systems that are not available on the US version.
So in a Rally race between both Vehicles the Evo has surely got to loose? Why? because if it didn't then Mitsubishi wasted a freaking lot of money developing a joint AYC ACD system to make their car corner faster.
Neutrino
06-02-2003, 03:54 AM
You know the fact is that we are talking about different cars
us spec is different from jdm and euro
and the same for STi spec.....
so the funny thing is both of us could be right and still argue like idiots....
the fact is that the us evo is a better handler than the sti including on the tarmac and off road....the oposite might be true for the jdm/euro specs
and why i present it as a fact because
scc. car and driver, and road and track have independently tested it and they all said the same thing....those magasines are independent from each other and many people on this site will vouch for them...especially scc...also car and driver had a profesional rally driver test both of them and who is better qualified than that?---perhaps makinen:)
oh and btw that picture is too low rez I downloaded it and blew it up but it became to pixelated
us spec is different from jdm and euro
and the same for STi spec.....
so the funny thing is both of us could be right and still argue like idiots....
the fact is that the us evo is a better handler than the sti including on the tarmac and off road....the oposite might be true for the jdm/euro specs
and why i present it as a fact because
scc. car and driver, and road and track have independently tested it and they all said the same thing....those magasines are independent from each other and many people on this site will vouch for them...especially scc...also car and driver had a profesional rally driver test both of them and who is better qualified than that?---perhaps makinen:)
oh and btw that picture is too low rez I downloaded it and blew it up but it became to pixelated
NSX-R-SSJ20K
06-02-2003, 03:56 AM
Originally posted by Neutrino
You know the fact is that we are talking about different cars
us spec is different from jdm and euro
and the same for STi spec.....
so the funny thing is both of us could be right and still argue like idiots....
the fact is that the us evo is a better handler than the sti including on the tarmac and off road....the oposite might be true for the jdm/euro specs
and why i present it as a fact because
scc. car and driver, and road and track have independently tested it and they all said the same thing....those magasines are independent from each other and many people on this site will vouch for them...especially scc...also car and driver had a profesional rally driver test both of them and who is better qualified than that?---perhaps makinen:)
I think you're right but man you started arguing that The STI had electronic tranction control What happened to that? cuz i wanna know why you said that. :confused:
Yea seems like imagestation lowers the size of images that image is supposed to be 1MB.
You know the fact is that we are talking about different cars
us spec is different from jdm and euro
and the same for STi spec.....
so the funny thing is both of us could be right and still argue like idiots....
the fact is that the us evo is a better handler than the sti including on the tarmac and off road....the oposite might be true for the jdm/euro specs
and why i present it as a fact because
scc. car and driver, and road and track have independently tested it and they all said the same thing....those magasines are independent from each other and many people on this site will vouch for them...especially scc...also car and driver had a profesional rally driver test both of them and who is better qualified than that?---perhaps makinen:)
I think you're right but man you started arguing that The STI had electronic tranction control What happened to that? cuz i wanna know why you said that. :confused:
Yea seems like imagestation lowers the size of images that image is supposed to be 1MB.
Neutrino
06-02-2003, 04:04 AM
Originally posted by NSX-R-SSJ20K
I think you're right but man you started arguing that The STI had electronic tranction control What happened to that? cuz i wanna know why you said that. :confused:
this is whay i said that:
because the us sti has an electronic active center diferential.....
Road and Track june 2003
"Subaru's Driver Controled Center Difrential (DCCD) is much like Mitsubishi's AYC"
that is a dirrect quote maybe again the us spec sti has something extra....you should know me better that if i say something that i cannot back up i'll just say its my speculation or IMO...only if i have a verifiable source i state things as fact...if you think they are wrong blame them....
I think you're right but man you started arguing that The STI had electronic tranction control What happened to that? cuz i wanna know why you said that. :confused:
this is whay i said that:
because the us sti has an electronic active center diferential.....
Road and Track june 2003
"Subaru's Driver Controled Center Difrential (DCCD) is much like Mitsubishi's AYC"
that is a dirrect quote maybe again the us spec sti has something extra....you should know me better that if i say something that i cannot back up i'll just say its my speculation or IMO...only if i have a verifiable source i state things as fact...if you think they are wrong blame them....
NSX-R-SSJ20K
06-02-2003, 04:08 AM
Originally posted by Neutrino
this is whay i said that:
because the us sti has an electronic active center diferential.....
Road and Track june 2003
"Subaru's Driver Controled Center Difrential (DCCD) is much like Mitsubishi's AYC"
that is a dirrect quote maybe again the us spec sti has something extra....you should know me better that if i say something that i cannot back up i'll just say its my speculation or IMO...only if i have a verifiable source i state things as fact...if you think they are wrong blame them....
Its not exactly the same tho is it? Do you know what it does because i couldn't find anything about the damn thing?
Anyways no that piece of crap is probably what made the car twitchy its no available on any of the UK or JP Subaru's altho there was some sort of DCCD on the J-Spec 22B that never appeared on the UK's version.
Subaru probably just balls the whole thing up.
You can correct this problem for them by simply removing this item for a Cusco rear diff :D a one way tho and the EVO would be much better with a AYC ACD they just wanted to make the car cheaper
It's also going to become ricified after 2fast 2furious
this is whay i said that:
because the us sti has an electronic active center diferential.....
Road and Track june 2003
"Subaru's Driver Controled Center Difrential (DCCD) is much like Mitsubishi's AYC"
that is a dirrect quote maybe again the us spec sti has something extra....you should know me better that if i say something that i cannot back up i'll just say its my speculation or IMO...only if i have a verifiable source i state things as fact...if you think they are wrong blame them....
Its not exactly the same tho is it? Do you know what it does because i couldn't find anything about the damn thing?
Anyways no that piece of crap is probably what made the car twitchy its no available on any of the UK or JP Subaru's altho there was some sort of DCCD on the J-Spec 22B that never appeared on the UK's version.
Subaru probably just balls the whole thing up.
You can correct this problem for them by simply removing this item for a Cusco rear diff :D a one way tho and the EVO would be much better with a AYC ACD they just wanted to make the car cheaper
It's also going to become ricified after 2fast 2furious
Neutrino
06-02-2003, 04:15 AM
Originally posted by gti1689
I don't want to get this brawl started again, but i just want to state my opinion. Personally, I think comparing the evo 8 and the sti is similar to comparing apples and oranges. They scream two similar, yet different themes. Both have a rally image and roots, but I look at the sti and think of it as the hot rod (sort of crude-hood scoop-and loaded with power). I think of the evo as the scalpel (as in, it is meant to be used in only one fashion-driving all out).
nsx, i think i understand what you are saying about how subaru engineers don't rely on electronics as heavily as the mitsu, but in the end the driving experince (electronic or not) is what matters.
i agree with the fact that the subaru is faster in straight-line acceleration, yet with around 25 more hp and .5 liters, than the evo, it should be.
i know that since you [nsx] live in britain you would think the US magazines inferior to a british publication like topgear or car. being an avid reader of evo, topgear, and car magazine i thought i could give you some quotes from those magazines instead of some silly US publication. hopefully, the editors of the above mentioned mags aren't considered morons in your mind also.
EVO Magazine issue 053 march 2003
subaru sti ppp
300 hp 299 lb ft of torque
2.0 liters
0-60 = 5.3 seconds (according to this issue od EVO)
1-100 = 14.2 (")
quarter mile in 13.9 seconds (")
lapped the bedford autodrome in 1:25.15 in the dry
EVO Magazine issue 055 may 2003 (featured in a test w/porsche cayenne)
mitsubishi evolution q280 (base-not fq300, or upcoming fq320)
276 hp 289 lb ft
2.0 liters
0-60 = 5.1 secongs (est. by mag)
lapped the bedford autodrome in 1:22.85 (ahead of porsche 911 carrera by .35 of a second)
I realize that this is the euro evo 8 with the acd and all of that other stuff and this is the 2.0 euro sti with the prodrive pack, but it still has 300 hp. both of these cars are as close as i can get to the american versions in a much more respectable european car magazine.
CAR Magazine may 2003
Mitsubishi q280 and subaru sti ppp
"But despite the Subaru's ovbious mechanical strengths, and despite the fact that this one did feel an improvement on the last Impreza i drove lasd year, as an overall package it's the Evo VIII that feels absolutley spot on. The impreza still looks a bit wild, a bit overdone, and the turbo-charged japenese rally car market has surely moved on. the evo has the wing aand the bulging arches, but it has a clean look that's matched by the cool, sharp efficientcy of the way it drives-light, quick, and razor sharp. it may be more expensive than the standard imprezaaa, and the cult surrounding it may be less fervent, but the Evo VIII is the car i'd rather drive-quickly-everyday."
Car and Driver Magazine june 2003
mitsubishi evo 8 (us spec) vs. subaru sti (us spec)
regarding the mitsu
" the highest praise we can bestow on a performance car is this: we feel immediatley comfortable driving it quickly. to a man, all three aof our testers independantley wrote exactly that, literally, in the evo's logbook."
rob millen on the evo's steering
" Don't you sometimes want a slower ratio on the dirt? we asked. too kind a man to say, "no you moron!" he instead replied, "no, for racing, quicker is always better."
rob millen on the sti and the evo
"the evo is surprisingly different from the subaru. it's clearly not as powerful, but it's not as nervous either, " millen continued. "the mitsu is more comfortable to drive at the limit." we believe him because he told he this calmy as we slid smoothly through a sweepong turn at 80mph. the evo's lack of a limited -slip front differential might have landicapped it launching out of corners, but it negotiated them faster anyway."
ovbiously, i am in favor of the evo even if it s slower than the sti, but i thinki have poved that the evo really has the advantage in the handling department (us and euro version's-i could have given more quotes from more us mags, but the outcome was always that same-evo wins, handles better-and i am getting tired of typing). the sti is faster and it is a great car, but living with my gti i have come to appreciate how important a car's handling is because my stock suspension provides plaenty of body roll.
hope this doesn't flare uop and tempers.
cheers
thanks for posting that...i read sometimes european magazines but they so expensive since they have to be imprted that i don't do it very often....
I am blown away by the performance of the evo.....it bugs me since i had already made up my mind to buy a G35 coupe(aka new skyline) but now i'm torn between it and the evo....
and i love how you put it...sti is more of a hot rod while the evo is a scalpel with rasor sharp precission handling----> and to me that is the most important thing in a car after power
I don't want to get this brawl started again, but i just want to state my opinion. Personally, I think comparing the evo 8 and the sti is similar to comparing apples and oranges. They scream two similar, yet different themes. Both have a rally image and roots, but I look at the sti and think of it as the hot rod (sort of crude-hood scoop-and loaded with power). I think of the evo as the scalpel (as in, it is meant to be used in only one fashion-driving all out).
nsx, i think i understand what you are saying about how subaru engineers don't rely on electronics as heavily as the mitsu, but in the end the driving experince (electronic or not) is what matters.
i agree with the fact that the subaru is faster in straight-line acceleration, yet with around 25 more hp and .5 liters, than the evo, it should be.
i know that since you [nsx] live in britain you would think the US magazines inferior to a british publication like topgear or car. being an avid reader of evo, topgear, and car magazine i thought i could give you some quotes from those magazines instead of some silly US publication. hopefully, the editors of the above mentioned mags aren't considered morons in your mind also.
EVO Magazine issue 053 march 2003
subaru sti ppp
300 hp 299 lb ft of torque
2.0 liters
0-60 = 5.3 seconds (according to this issue od EVO)
1-100 = 14.2 (")
quarter mile in 13.9 seconds (")
lapped the bedford autodrome in 1:25.15 in the dry
EVO Magazine issue 055 may 2003 (featured in a test w/porsche cayenne)
mitsubishi evolution q280 (base-not fq300, or upcoming fq320)
276 hp 289 lb ft
2.0 liters
0-60 = 5.1 secongs (est. by mag)
lapped the bedford autodrome in 1:22.85 (ahead of porsche 911 carrera by .35 of a second)
I realize that this is the euro evo 8 with the acd and all of that other stuff and this is the 2.0 euro sti with the prodrive pack, but it still has 300 hp. both of these cars are as close as i can get to the american versions in a much more respectable european car magazine.
CAR Magazine may 2003
Mitsubishi q280 and subaru sti ppp
"But despite the Subaru's ovbious mechanical strengths, and despite the fact that this one did feel an improvement on the last Impreza i drove lasd year, as an overall package it's the Evo VIII that feels absolutley spot on. The impreza still looks a bit wild, a bit overdone, and the turbo-charged japenese rally car market has surely moved on. the evo has the wing aand the bulging arches, but it has a clean look that's matched by the cool, sharp efficientcy of the way it drives-light, quick, and razor sharp. it may be more expensive than the standard imprezaaa, and the cult surrounding it may be less fervent, but the Evo VIII is the car i'd rather drive-quickly-everyday."
Car and Driver Magazine june 2003
mitsubishi evo 8 (us spec) vs. subaru sti (us spec)
regarding the mitsu
" the highest praise we can bestow on a performance car is this: we feel immediatley comfortable driving it quickly. to a man, all three aof our testers independantley wrote exactly that, literally, in the evo's logbook."
rob millen on the evo's steering
" Don't you sometimes want a slower ratio on the dirt? we asked. too kind a man to say, "no you moron!" he instead replied, "no, for racing, quicker is always better."
rob millen on the sti and the evo
"the evo is surprisingly different from the subaru. it's clearly not as powerful, but it's not as nervous either, " millen continued. "the mitsu is more comfortable to drive at the limit." we believe him because he told he this calmy as we slid smoothly through a sweepong turn at 80mph. the evo's lack of a limited -slip front differential might have landicapped it launching out of corners, but it negotiated them faster anyway."
ovbiously, i am in favor of the evo even if it s slower than the sti, but i thinki have poved that the evo really has the advantage in the handling department (us and euro version's-i could have given more quotes from more us mags, but the outcome was always that same-evo wins, handles better-and i am getting tired of typing). the sti is faster and it is a great car, but living with my gti i have come to appreciate how important a car's handling is because my stock suspension provides plaenty of body roll.
hope this doesn't flare uop and tempers.
cheers
thanks for posting that...i read sometimes european magazines but they so expensive since they have to be imprted that i don't do it very often....
I am blown away by the performance of the evo.....it bugs me since i had already made up my mind to buy a G35 coupe(aka new skyline) but now i'm torn between it and the evo....
and i love how you put it...sti is more of a hot rod while the evo is a scalpel with rasor sharp precission handling----> and to me that is the most important thing in a car after power
Neutrino
06-02-2003, 04:19 AM
Originally posted by NSX-R-SSJ20K
Its not exactly the same tho is it? Do you know what it does because i couldn't find anything about the damn thing?
Anyways no that piece of crap is probably what made the car twitchy its no available on any of the UK or JP Subaru's altho there was some sort of DCCD on the J-Spec 22B that never appeared on the UK's version.
Subaru probably just balls the whole thing up.
You can correct this problem for them by simply removing this item for a Cusco rear diff :D a one way tho and the EVO would be much better with a AYC ACD they just wanted to make the car cheaper
It's also going to become ricified after 2fast 2furious
i don't know if the DCCD and the AYC are exactly the same i really don't know many details about it but at least is suposedly similar to AYC...
and you know what....by seing how well the us spec evo handles i wonder if they tuned the chassis or suspension to make up for the lack of AYC...i guess will find out when sombody will put them side by side....
and yeah that kind of bugs me since i want to get an EVO....it might suck to have people come to me and be like...cool fast and the furious car...and i would have to slap them
Its not exactly the same tho is it? Do you know what it does because i couldn't find anything about the damn thing?
Anyways no that piece of crap is probably what made the car twitchy its no available on any of the UK or JP Subaru's altho there was some sort of DCCD on the J-Spec 22B that never appeared on the UK's version.
Subaru probably just balls the whole thing up.
You can correct this problem for them by simply removing this item for a Cusco rear diff :D a one way tho and the EVO would be much better with a AYC ACD they just wanted to make the car cheaper
It's also going to become ricified after 2fast 2furious
i don't know if the DCCD and the AYC are exactly the same i really don't know many details about it but at least is suposedly similar to AYC...
and you know what....by seing how well the us spec evo handles i wonder if they tuned the chassis or suspension to make up for the lack of AYC...i guess will find out when sombody will put them side by side....
and yeah that kind of bugs me since i want to get an EVO....it might suck to have people come to me and be like...cool fast and the furious car...and i would have to slap them
NSX-R-SSJ20K
06-02-2003, 04:27 AM
Originally posted by gti1689
I don't want to get this brawl started again, but i just want to state my opinion. Personally, I think comparing the evo 8 and the sti is similar to comparing apples and oranges. They scream two similar, yet different themes. Both have a rally image and roots, but I look at the sti and think of it as the hot rod (sort of crude-hood scoop-and loaded with power). I think of the evo as the scalpel (as in, it is meant to be used in only one fashion-driving all out).
nsx, i think i understand what you are saying about how subaru engineers don't rely on electronics as heavily as the mitsu, but in the end the driving experince (electronic or not) is what matters.
i agree with the fact that the subaru is faster in straight-line acceleration, yet with around 25 more hp and .5 liters, than the evo, it should be.
i know that since you [nsx] live in britain you would think the US magazines inferior to a british publication like topgear or car. being an avid reader of evo, topgear, and car magazine i thought i could give you some quotes from those magazines instead of some silly US publication. hopefully, the editors of the above mentioned mags aren't considered morons in your mind also.
I buy SuperStreet and Best Motoring DVD's
I haven't bought a top gear mag for ages
I don't want to get this brawl started again, but i just want to state my opinion. Personally, I think comparing the evo 8 and the sti is similar to comparing apples and oranges. They scream two similar, yet different themes. Both have a rally image and roots, but I look at the sti and think of it as the hot rod (sort of crude-hood scoop-and loaded with power). I think of the evo as the scalpel (as in, it is meant to be used in only one fashion-driving all out).
nsx, i think i understand what you are saying about how subaru engineers don't rely on electronics as heavily as the mitsu, but in the end the driving experince (electronic or not) is what matters.
i agree with the fact that the subaru is faster in straight-line acceleration, yet with around 25 more hp and .5 liters, than the evo, it should be.
i know that since you [nsx] live in britain you would think the US magazines inferior to a british publication like topgear or car. being an avid reader of evo, topgear, and car magazine i thought i could give you some quotes from those magazines instead of some silly US publication. hopefully, the editors of the above mentioned mags aren't considered morons in your mind also.
I buy SuperStreet and Best Motoring DVD's
I haven't bought a top gear mag for ages
gti1689
06-02-2003, 04:48 PM
no problem neutrino. i love eurppean car mags, but whenever i do buy them i always blow like 20 bucks on the damn things. hahaha, nsx i thought that you would be into that stuff, but hey you can never be sure. i have seen best mototing videos and i read superstreet, so you should try sports campact car if your into detailed analysis of how to do a hybrid or build up a car.
NSX-R-SSJ20K
06-02-2003, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by gti1689
no problem neutrino. i love eurppean car mags, but whenever i do buy them i always blow like 20 bucks on the damn things. hahaha, nsx i thought that you would be into that stuff, but hey you can never be sure. i have seen best mototing videos and i read superstreet, so you should try sports campact car if your into detailed analysis of how to do a hybrid or build up a car.
yea i did buy a couple of those but i bought super street cuz they feature Japanese Tuned Vehicles as well as US ones
The only problem is that i subscribed to Super Street and i don't think i'd subscribe to another magazine. I did buy Top Gear and Car a long time ago but at the moment they're not what i want in a magazine.
I'm thinking of getting a bunch of Option Videos but i need to save my money. I have to make a £5000 mark by the end of July and i don't think i'll make it. Ebay is the source of all my problems.
no problem neutrino. i love eurppean car mags, but whenever i do buy them i always blow like 20 bucks on the damn things. hahaha, nsx i thought that you would be into that stuff, but hey you can never be sure. i have seen best mototing videos and i read superstreet, so you should try sports campact car if your into detailed analysis of how to do a hybrid or build up a car.
yea i did buy a couple of those but i bought super street cuz they feature Japanese Tuned Vehicles as well as US ones
The only problem is that i subscribed to Super Street and i don't think i'd subscribe to another magazine. I did buy Top Gear and Car a long time ago but at the moment they're not what i want in a magazine.
I'm thinking of getting a bunch of Option Videos but i need to save my money. I have to make a £5000 mark by the end of July and i don't think i'll make it. Ebay is the source of all my problems.
RACER D12
06-02-2003, 06:16 PM
People people come on its all about euro tunner, import tunner, and superstreet some time. Superstreet has alot of adds and crap.
NSX-R-SSJ20K
06-03-2003, 05:03 AM
Originally posted by RACER D12
People people come on its all about euro tunner, import tunner, and superstreet some time. Superstreet has alot of adds and crap.
you haven't read max power !!!!!!
People people come on its all about euro tunner, import tunner, and superstreet some time. Superstreet has alot of adds and crap.
you haven't read max power !!!!!!
x838nwy
07-14-2003, 01:55 PM
It's been entertaining reading messages on this forum. Personally, I can't understand why Japanese car makers keep selling cars with slightly different specs in Japan/Europe/US.
Anyhow, I've never driven either of the two cars in their newest incarnation. However, I know a number of people who own these things and a number that actually race them. So here's my opinion, formed after talking to them (VERY frequently):
Neither is better as JDM spec. No, this is not a sort a "i'm more mature" type of post, but just that the neither of them's best. Both are f****** fast if you drive them right and there's never really going to be a time when it becomes apparent that they are different.
Rod Millen and Tiff Needell are both better drivers than you or I. They get to drive the test cars in ways and under circumstances that none of us will be able to. That's just fact. When you actually own these things and drive them at considerable speed, things are different.
Not one owner of either think that their car is slow and that they should have bought the other (except for, perhaps, the EVO6 owner). Not one of them ever thought "Crap, there's an EVO/STI in my mirrors".
From what I've read, Subaru seem to think that engine power is more important than chassis balance and Mitsu think the opposite. Well, I rekon you could either buy the Subaru and stiffen up the chassis/fanny about with the suspension, or buy the EVO then go to town on the engine. Problem solved.
And if you ever think of buying one of these cars and not do any tuning on them, you should seek help.
c
Anyhow, I've never driven either of the two cars in their newest incarnation. However, I know a number of people who own these things and a number that actually race them. So here's my opinion, formed after talking to them (VERY frequently):
Neither is better as JDM spec. No, this is not a sort a "i'm more mature" type of post, but just that the neither of them's best. Both are f****** fast if you drive them right and there's never really going to be a time when it becomes apparent that they are different.
Rod Millen and Tiff Needell are both better drivers than you or I. They get to drive the test cars in ways and under circumstances that none of us will be able to. That's just fact. When you actually own these things and drive them at considerable speed, things are different.
Not one owner of either think that their car is slow and that they should have bought the other (except for, perhaps, the EVO6 owner). Not one of them ever thought "Crap, there's an EVO/STI in my mirrors".
From what I've read, Subaru seem to think that engine power is more important than chassis balance and Mitsu think the opposite. Well, I rekon you could either buy the Subaru and stiffen up the chassis/fanny about with the suspension, or buy the EVO then go to town on the engine. Problem solved.
And if you ever think of buying one of these cars and not do any tuning on them, you should seek help.
c
bulldawgin007
08-08-2003, 06:47 PM
Ok, look NSX, Ive read alot about the pocket rocket battles, and everytime I read about the two, they have different specs, in one mag. I can read that the sube has a .3 of a second slower 0-60 than the Evo because you have to shift into third gear to get to 60 in the Sube, as aposed to the Evo, where you can hit it in 2nd. And in other mags I read that the Sube has a better 0-60, I think it just depends on the driver, so those stats, at that close of a call, are useless. If Mitsu decided to come with a 2.5 L there would be no more competition and this forum would be pointless because the Evo would blow the STi out of the water..but they havent and heres the rest of my reply. The handling thing, thats where your wrong, in every thing Ive ever read on the Evo Vs. STi, the evo performs better on objective and subjective scoring of the cornering. if you dont know what the difference is between objective and subjective scoring is, objective is whats shown on a test, and doesnt have any opinion on it, its just what happend, like a skip pad test. Subjective scoring is an opinion, such as one from a magazine editor. Everyone of the writers says that the STi suffers from understeer. It doesnt really matter how "balanced" it is, its how it performs, so you can argue that point all you want The evo in a slalom out performed the STi and is in the running with a 03 Enzo, yah, thats right, the Evo performed only 1 mph slower than a 650,000 dollar car. Braking isnt something that means a lot to me as long as it works, but the Evo also out performed the STi there stopping from 60-0 in just 108 ft. But if your just gonna hit a straight away, do what you want cuz none of that meant anything to you, and theyre pretty close as far as that goes too, so if you have to spend an extra $4000 on an STi because cant find a way to shave something like 2 tenths of a second off your quarter *not exactly sure on that* your an idiot, and you dont need to be on this forum anyways.
LjasonL
08-09-2003, 01:54 AM
:frown:
sond83
08-20-2003, 10:04 AM
thanks for posting that...i read sometimes european magazines but they so expensive since they have to be imprted that i don't do it very often....
I am blown away by the performance of the evo.....it bugs me since i had already made up my mind to buy a G35 coupe(aka new skyline) but now i'm torn between it and the evo....
and i love how you put it...sti is more of a hot rod while the evo is a scalpel with rasor sharp precission handling----> and to me that is the most important thing in a car after power
why not try skyline gtr34 v spec2?
I am blown away by the performance of the evo.....it bugs me since i had already made up my mind to buy a G35 coupe(aka new skyline) but now i'm torn between it and the evo....
and i love how you put it...sti is more of a hot rod while the evo is a scalpel with rasor sharp precission handling----> and to me that is the most important thing in a car after power
why not try skyline gtr34 v spec2?
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