Phantom is back!!! New 3D Design!!!

Warning!!! Explicit Content!!!
Reasons:
1. Very very sexy car
2. Very very sexy curved body
3. Topless Photos!!!

(No, there arent any female pictures, there're only car pics)

Sup everyone!!!

Sorry I abandoned all of you. For those of you who remember my last car....well, I've massively improved since then. You'd probably ask how, but you can also probably see the pictures below, so you already know (lol).

Anywayz, herez my new design; the Phantom Inferno

I'm not 100% complete yet, but its good enough to show around.

On a side note, Evangel University sucks. Don't come here. They blocked my website. So I hope the images show up beacuse I'm typing these links from meory. Some of these images dont exist. Anyways you can procede directly to http://phantom.ssip.net/Inferno/ if you want to see all of the pictures. Theres a lot more there than I am posting.

http://phantom.ssip.net/Inferno/Images/030.jpg
http://phantom.ssip.net/Inferno/Images/035.jpg
http://phantom.ssip.net/Inferno/Images/039.jpg
http://phantom.ssip.net/Inferno/Images/040.jpg
http://phantom.ssip.net/Inferno/Images/043.jpg
http://phantom.ssip.net/Inferno/Images/044.jpg

Make sure to vote. Select the ranking and then select which design you like best. (Select 2 options only)

nice job. very origonal. i don't like the tail lights though. i placed it at top 25 but it wouldn't register my vote.

mad kudos on the panther and the preditor. i absolutely LOVE those ones.

it looks like the love child of an enzo, an NSX, and a mitsubishi eclipse's tails

no they look like mercury cougar tails. but they don't belong on such a goregous vehical like this.

Hmmmm..... It was ssuppose to let you select multiple. Don't know why it's not letting you and I do not know why it isn't voting. Oh well....


So far..... Criticizms center around the taillights. What if I curved it some? Like the side of hte "triangle" that is most "pointy" I just sort of cut a little off and curve that. The other option is I revert back to some-what standard lookign taillights, but I really don't want to do that.

Well, thanks for the feedback so far. I'm sure we'll have more to discuss like the wheels which really need a make-over to bring them up-to-par with the rest of the car (my project after I finish the interior).

i don't know what you are talking about doing to the tails....

i just noticed this, i REALLY don't like how the spoiler is a different color than the rest of the car.

to me that looks awesome the way it is, id turn it into like ferrari or something and see if they use it.

I think tails=tail lights.

I can make a picture of a spoiler the same color as the car (or remove or replace the spoiler).

I was actually thinking this would make a great replacment for the Lamborghinni Gallardo. I think it would accomplish the goal they had with the Galardo, but instead of making it a cheap murcelago, it is it's own independent design... Lamborghini needs a new line of cars in addition to the Galardo/Murcelago/Diablo/Countach lineage. This would be a great start. If they wanted to do that I could probably design like 20 varyations of the car in 6-12 weeks. Plus I'm a young freelacne desinger, so I'll be around & available for quite a while if they ever wanted to take the Inferno to the next level (Countasch to Diablo to Murcelago type updates).

<--------jizzez pants lol


man you got a really nice car. nice model. very smooth in every way. keep up the good work.

Good:
#1 Wheels better than before.
#2 Overall design very sleek - I don't like supercars, but I like yours. :o
#3 You're back!! :D
#4 Nice seats!!
#5 Nice velvet rope!! LOL!!

Bad:
Like the brakes, but don't they usually have calipers? :bloated:
Spoiler color, already mentioned above.
Make the wheels bigger. And if there are no visible lugs then there has to be a center cap.
You need a logo!!!

I'd love it, I truly would, if it weren't for the (sorry) ugly headligts.. Don't have a problem with the tail lights, just think they are cool, but the headlights just look soooo plain and boring, so senseless and dull. Please change them!

Well, great feedback so far. Well, someone obviously though the sexy curved body of my topless car was......(lol) Anyways, thanks for all the suggestions so far. I am reading and carefully considering EVERY suggestion, so don't think a single thing you say is being overlooked.

Anyways I've been workign on updates, most of them not related at all to suggestiosn here or elsewhere (stuff I had planned, but didn't get around to). There's a few suggestions that I have gotten that I already planned to work on before the suggestions, which I have completeed. I'm workign on pushing this concept all the way.

Aywayz, it's kind of wierd sounding, but the other day I was trying to design a sporty looking covered trailer (which I added a few things like a diffuser to improve it's downforce) for a competition I entered. Well, in the process it ended up lookign sort of like a van. Anyways, I have an idea for a VAN taht is sporty in the sense of a sports car being sporty. Now I hate vans, but this idea is truly awesome, and actually works. That's just one of my projects you have to look forward to....

Originally posted by PhantomDesign
....... Anyways, I have an idea for a VAN taht is sporty in the sense of a sports car being sporty. Now I hate vans, but this idea is truly awesome, and actually works. ..

Hey, they're great for road trips and kids - and if you can improve on Nissan's upcoming Quest then props to you.

http://www.infinitihelp.com/Nissan/Models/2004/Quest/Description.htm

Let me put it this way: That van doesn't come close to my concept. Think about the aspects of beauty and sport that you would have on a ferrari, lamborghini, or porshe. Now, if you could possibly fit the styling, and possibly even technical aspects into the form of a van with all the seating, headroom, etc, my design sucessfully accomplishes that. I actually sucessfully integrate aspects of beauty into a van without placing abstract grills and wierdly shaped lights. You'll jsut have to wait to see how it is actually accomplished. This concept, while I can sort of express it on paper, you won't actually fully understand or get the full effect untill I put it in 3D.



B.T.W. I'm going to be building a test-track(in 3D) for my cars. I figured I'd make the track a 2 mile track (pure circular) with an area in the middle where you can dodge cones, etc... That'll be good for animation.

Originally posted by PhantomDesign
Let me put it this way: That van doesn't come close to my concept. Think about the aspects of beauty and sport that you would have on a ferrari, lamborghini, or porshe. Now, if you could possibly fit the styling, and possibly even technical aspects into the form of a van with all the seating, headroom, etc, my design sucessfully accomplishes that. I actually sucessfully integrate aspects of beauty into a van without placing abstract grills and wierdly shaped lights. ...

LOL!! That's OK, I wasn't trying to say you weren't capable...I was trying to point out that while the Quest is definitely the tops today in looks for minivans ("abstract grills" and "wierdly shaped lights" :rolleyes: notwithstanding) but what minivan and van buyers REALLY want is functionality - storage, rear vents, cubbies, cupholders, visibility, comfort.... That's why I linked to to a lot of text about door sizes and cargo area and especially the usage of the ceiling, and NOT a whole bunch of photos. I think there's information there that you could use.

And anyway, porsche, lamborghini, and ferrari never did that much for me anyway. They're well-designed and everything, but not my style at all. It's kind of like architecture...I can respect a arts-and-crafts-style house for being well-put together and consistent in its style, but I'd never want to live in it and I sure as heck wouldn't hang pictures of it in my locker.

Regardless, I'd be interested to see your vision of a van, when rendered.

Well, I hate vans, but I am incorporating all of the things you said. I'm pushing the van concept as far towards the sports car concept as I can. You'll just have to wait on that. Anyways I'm building a track for the car to be animated on..so that should be cool.

what pogram do you use to do this it looks fun and i want to get into it.

I used 3D Studio Max. For modeling cars, you'll probably be better off to get Rhyno.

While 3D may look fun, be prepared to invest tons if time an effort. I wish everyone th best, but it's a lot mroe diffult to pick up than photoshop.

Holy shit man, thats amazing! great work, i dunno what 2 vote for tho cuz all ur cars r awesome!

Thanks...

I think hte voting system is messed up right now or something. Youre suppose to be able to select multiplec, and it isn't accepting votes.

i didnt even vote either, they are all excellent, you are very good at this stuff man, keep it up.

Thanks dude...

What sort of tickets do you collect? Traffic tickets? I'll send U some of mine if U want. I also got a parket ticket today because my car was pointing uhe wrong direction. It was parket infront of my house in a very subdued neighborhood. A couple of my neighbors and I are trying to figure out who has nothing better to do than complain about any tiny violation of law possible. A cop would have had to go seriously out of his way to give me a ticket. I think cops have a quota in my city because late at night I've been puulled over like 7 times in the last 6 months, and only one of those times a cop could find a reason to give me a ticket (I sped up because someone was tailgating me and I couldn't see it was a cop).

Looks good, I like the inferno best. Predator is nice but too McLarenish, and I really like the creative headlight placement on the Assault although I dont know how practical that would be when driving.

if the panther were real it would be in my top 5 cars.

I've been getting a lot of support for my Panther concept. I may do a rebuild eventually...

Update of the rims/brakes/etc....


http://speed.supercars.net/boardpics/2003-5-1/1133094-PhantomInfernoa.jpg

http://speed.supercars.net/boardpics/2003-5-1/1131829-phantominfernoa.jpg

I say no to those rims. It needs something bigger...more exciting. They look like little 15 inchers.

Originally posted by PhantomDesign
I think cops have a quota in my city because late at night I've been puulled over like 7 times in the last 6 months, and only one of those times a cop could find a reason to give me a ticket (I sped up because someone was tailgating me and I couldn't see it was a cop).
cops have a quota no mattter where you go in the US. and they give HELLA tickets out especially near the end of the month.

Put some decals on it and then I am set

I think you'll like one of my next concepts (currently called the MOD Concept). That's suppose to be the ultimate customizable machine (fast & furious type).

Hey people,

Just a small update from phantom design studios :)

First, don't hang out on www.cardesignnews.com forums or supercars.net fourm. They're so immature over there. O.K. This isn't real news, so I'll get moving on to better things.

I just added my portfolio to the www.cardesignnews.com portfolios page. The portfolio is O.K. (better pictures at my website). Basically, if you really like my work, go over to....

http://www.cardesignnews.com/portfolios/

...then search for "phantom" This should only show my portfolio (Jonathan Griffin). Anyways if you're ambitious enough to help me out, you can give me a nice rating. How you do that is on the homepage of www.cardesignnews.com there is a login box on the right. Click "become a member" then near hte bottom there is somethign that says "Click here to register" and click on the Go.

Fill in information next to the little *'s (doesn't have to be accurate, it doesn't even make you verify your account through e-mail). Then head over to my portfolio and (obviously :) ) click on the "excelent" link which is on the very bottom of the page on the left side.

The next order of buisness is I'm workign on a cool video of hte car. Right now I'm preparing some stuff for what will eventually be a really cool video. It'll be a combination of showy type shots with slow moving cameras, and extreme action shots of my car dodging cones and doing serious stunt driving. If anyone has any ideas here, I'd love to hear them.

Anyways, this forum rocks!!! :)

I just wanted to add that spamming my CDN portfolio with positive ratings helps me less than a single rating. Please only register once and rate it once. Thanks.


Also, if anyone would like to join my forum which is specific to my car designs, go to...

http://groups.msn.com/PhantomDesignStudios/

...I should have a decent number of members soon.

What I like about your design is the smooth curves and detail to shape, what I think needs some form of change is the lights ( make more crystal like ), the wheels ( make bigger ), the wheel arches ( make wider ).

These are just what I think will complement the smooth curves of your design. The rest I like.

I do not intend to critisize but if you spend some time to look for small detail towards the trend that automotive taste is going, then your designs will go unnoticed by more ppl than you can imagine.

Whatch this space.

:cool:

While everyone hates to know where they are deficent, I always want to know where/how I can improve.

Phantom- I've seen some your posts on cardesignnews and conceptcar.co.uk. The people there are not "immature". In fact, most there are far from it. Most people there are real people who've worked in real studios or worked with real professional designers as part of their STUDIES...
It's the amateurs and the kids with copies of 3DStudioMax that brings down the forums of sites like cardesignnews and conceptcar....

I can't believe you're still spinning this "design" BS- you clearly have no knowledge of design whatsoever- you don't describe any influences from any other areas of design- be it graphic design, product design, interior design, architecture,- not a bean. All you're interested is in fast cars and gimicks.
Sure you're seem competent with 3D Studio, but you really need to polish up on the surfaces and proportions- you'd do a much better job of conveying your thoughts with just a napkin and a ball-point... You still need to show some sketches and ideas- if someone asks you to come up with a solution, what are you going to do? Go away for a couple of hours to model, render, then come back? Real design needs real designers to think on their feet and in pretty much record time- real automotive CAD modellers don't go off to model racetracks and the like- it's the product, the surfaces that matter.
You need to start thinking about other products- not just sports cars.
By other products, I mean anything- other types of cars, product design, anything. Anyone can "design" a sports car- it's usually a popular first choice for final year design students. It requires the least amount of design work ever, as most aspects of a sportscar can be compromised.

Yes Rhino3D is way better for car design, and if you can get it, Alias Studiotools is even better. You need to look into this, as modelling with splines is a far better way to create surfaces suitable for automotive design.

Don't take my words as a dig- if you can prove you can accomplish even half of what I've described above, then you still aren't even halfway to seriously becoming an automotive designer......

I hate being condescending to people, but it is necessary in this case. Please forgive me.

Mr. Spaghetti. I can tell I've talked to you before. I see your account is a fresh one (newbie). All I want to say is you need to go back to www.cardesignnews.com and stay there. Quit trying to spread problems. I’m guessing you were one of the ones who started on www.cardesignnews.com. I left www.cardesignnews.com (partially) because I don’t want to talk to you. Why did you feel it was necessary to repeat everything you heard on www.cardesignnews.com? I already saw other people say everything you wrote. You aren’t being constructive at all or helping the situation. From now on I'm going to ignore you and I suggest everyone else does the same. I don't know what sort of vendetta you have, but this is extremely immature and I prefer you leave your vendettas at home. You seriously need to get a life.

Two side notes:

(I didn't know my stuff was at conceptcar.co.uk)
A singe automobile design that goes to production is often a multimillion dollar investment. They don't make these investments based on 500 randomly drawn low quality sketches, but a well-thought-out process which they are willing to take the necessary time to ensure proper success.
You ever hear of confidentiality? I'm a lot closer than you think.
For those who don’t understand what just happened, this guy repeated every issue which I disagreed with (and all issues in which they thought made them superior to me) others on at www.cardesignnews.com in an attempt to spread dirt around about me. I told them that I had absolutely no problems at this forum, so chances are they thought it would be fun to start some. I’m really sorry about this, but I’m not being an a**hole because I want to be one.

What program did you use?

3D Studio Max Version 4

No you haven't "talked" to me before- you just adamatly state your opinion over everyone elses.
No you're not being condescending- you're just living in a dreamworld mate. If I post this thread on CarDesignNews, you'll be a laughing stock.... Since you're so stubborn, I'm not going to pull any punches...

You haven't responded to my last comments about design in general, the design of other things aside from sports cars, the considerations of other aspects in the design process, and the fact that you can't even sketch. Sketching is not the be-all and end-all, but the fact of the matter is, you need to sketch...

You haven't listened to a word I've said have you? Of course you don't put a vehicle into production with "500 randomly drawn low quality sketches"- even an idiot like you knows that. As for vehicle design being a "multimillion dollar investment"- wrong. It's runs into BILLIONS.

You still haven't proven yourself- maybe with some more training you might make it as a computer games modeller (and that's not a bad thing) and at the very most a CAD modeller. But designer? No way. Not for mainstream automotive design anyway. I'm not "spreading problems" as you put it- I'm putting in my own objective opinion, just like you appear to be doing....

And so ok- you didn't put any stuff on ConceptCar- I was merely referring to POSTS which I mistaken for another forum. I didn't repeat everything I heard on CarDesignNews- I'm merely stating that you seem to be repeating the same "design"- i.e. your complete fascination for gimmicky schoolboy sportscars. And so what if it's been stated before? Have you actually taken in any of the advice that's been put to you??

There used to be a time when automotive design was solely an engineers trade. Even today, a stylist (and that's what a designer essentially is) has very little say in the overall product. In fact, a designers input comes in at the very bottom of the overall design process- that's way way after the heads, marketeers, the accountants, countless engineers, ergonomics specialists, have had a say in the matter. And you have to consider these aspects. Even then, the vast input of any automotive designer may only count for little, if any, to the actual final product as you compete alongside other designers for a say in the design.

On your site you state that you make minimal adjustments for engineers!! You're just having a laugh?? I see you've also removed the equally laughable "PM me on AIM" from too. Well- it's a start I guess...

And what the hell are you going on about with comments like "have you ever heard of confidentiality"?? Yes I've heard of that. And what's with "closer than you think"?? If you implying that , God forbid, you're actually working for someone but refuse to disclose the client, then you're talking from where the sun doesn't shine. It doesn't matter who you work for- the design community is very small, and it's no secret who you work for. What a laugh. So if you are, then state who with- it's no secret. But I suspect you're talking crud....

In your posts, you marvel at how wonderful and beautiful you work is- how can anyone even take you seriously????
If I'm so wrong, then why the hell have you received so much flak in the past? The only people that seem to like your "work" is the testosterone-fuelled schoolboys with ancient pirate copies of 3D Studio Max, marveling at the wonders of CG renderings which can be accomplished easily on the majority of home computers, the uninitiated, the non-designers, your mother, etcetera etcetera. Why is it that the only person that feels compelled to reply viciously to people like me is you?!! It's not a "vendetta" as you put it- but you seem to sharply disregard anyone that seems to have even the slightest negative opinion of your "work" and that's not right. Well live with it because guess what? That's exactly the day to day life of being a designer- any designer. How can you be taken seriously when all you do is go off on one when someone is trying to make a valid point?

Get a life you loser.
Oh, and I wasn't going to say this before, but your work is crap.

He, he...IGNORED!!!

WOW, you've done it again, nice job

Originally posted by spaghetti
Phantom- I've seen some your posts on cardesignnews and conceptcar.co.uk. The people there are not "immature". In fact, most there are far from it. Most people there are real people who've worked in real studios or worked with real professional designers as part of their STUDIES...
It's the amateurs and the kids with copies of 3DStudioMax that brings down the forums of sites like cardesignnews and conceptcar....

I can't believe you're still spinning this "design" BS- you clearly have no knowledge of design whatsoever- you don't describe any influences from any other areas of design- be it graphic design, product design, interior design, architecture,- not a bean. All you're interested is in fast cars and gimicks.
Sure you're seem competent with 3D Studio, but you really need to polish up on the surfaces and proportions- you'd do a much better job of conveying your thoughts with just a napkin and a ball-point... You still need to show some sketches and ideas- if someone asks you to come up with a solution, what are you going to do? Go away for a couple of hours to model, render, then come back? Real design needs real designers to think on their feet and in pretty much record time- real automotive CAD modellers don't go off to model racetracks and the like- it's the product, the surfaces that matter.
You need to start thinking about other products- not just sports cars.
By other products, I mean anything- other types of cars, product design, anything. Anyone can "design" a sports car- it's usually a popular first choice for final year design students. It requires the least amount of design work ever, as most aspects of a sportscar can be compromised.

Yes Rhino3D is way better for car design, and if you can get it, Alias Studiotools is even better. You need to look into this, as modelling with splines is a far better way to create surfaces suitable for automotive design.

Don't take my words as a dig- if you can prove you can accomplish even half of what I've described above, then you still aren't even halfway to seriously becoming an automotive designer......

Siince this topic is back....

I agree with spaghetti- and all those other people there that know it, too.. You have some nice 3D skills, but your designs aren't anything new- the generic supercar. About the production thing, first you go through hundreds- maybe thousands of sketches before you even think about modelling- clay or 3D or whatever. Try some fresh, new sketches first. You won't be so afraid of wasting your time by doing a whole 3D model and render, and ending up with something totally ugly- you can do sketches a whole lot quicker than 3D models.

Not saying your cars don't look nice- but they look like someone took all the supercars already designed and mushed them into one generic super car. Maybe try designing to solve a problem... Mass commuter car for London? And about the criticism you get on CDN, listen to them! They know what they're talking about! You say you appreciate critisism but each time you get some you blow it away!

Somebody tell this fool to get real.
What a sore loser- this pr*ck can't uphold his argument, and so throws his toys out the pram- what a d*ckhead. ONE single post to his thread and he's mad!! How mature of him.

I quote: "I always want to know where/how I can improve."

So why isn't he improving?? We've told him what he needs to do, but I guess some people just don't like losing face.......

They ripped him apart over at http://www.cardesignnews.com because he refuses to listen to objective opinions in the self-belief that he knows more, and has more talent than real designers!! He expects everyone to inflate his ego by marvelling at his derivative poorly modelled CG copycat school boy cars, but really he's as useful in a design studio as a fish on a bike. Anyone can set up a piece of space anywhere, with a dodgy-looking website (with serious grammatical errors might I add) and call it a "studio", just like this guy has done. This guy doesn't even fall into the amateur category.

If you guys seriously want to get into car design, then check out http://www.cardesignnews.com. Do not listen to what this guy had to say!! At CarDesignNews, you will learn about the requiremens of getting into the industry, see sketching tutorials, interviews with real top designers and see a lot of innovation. If you stay here, you will never even know what car design is, but for inflating this idiots over-sized ego.

I see that still, no one else is disagreeing with me.....
I'm telling you now- go to CarDesignNews and you will be blown away.

i feel complaining about complaining wastes space too :thefinger :loser:

Hey spagetti!!!! Would you say something new and constructive? All I see is a repetative list of obvious and disguised insuts. You came over here just to annoy the hell out of me, you are completly pathetic. Get a life!

Considering you're one of those "phantom is doomed to failure morons", answer this one question: Why is my portfolio is (currently) #1 ranked on www.cardesignnews.com?

I didn't come here to trade insults- I'm sorry if you misconstrued these comments as a personal attack, but the personal attacks were started by yourself.....

You made a quote about wanting to know where and how you wanted to improve and that's exactly what I did.
People who are familiar with the workings of art and design schools will be used to these kinds of critiques. In fact, that's exactly what they are called- a critique. If you can't handle one constructive criticism from ONE person who's actually trying to push you in the right direction, then there's no hope for you. Everybody has to put up with this kind of feedback all the time- from school, to University, right to the design studio. Whether the feedback is good or bad, it ALWAYS counts.
And voted number one at CDN?? This is after you stated that everybody there was immature and jealous of you..?? You're having a laugh- and by the way, your own votes do not count....
How can you even insinuate that your work is greater than hundreds of other pieces that I see at CDN???? I looked at your portfolio there and I don't see it marked as the editors choice.....
Actually for your information, it's very uncouth to ever rate own work at all, let alone above others, :nono: :nono: but you wouldn't know anything about that...

And for your information, if you'd bothered to read my posts properly you'll know that every post I've submitted is indeed actually of different content and is construtive. What have you submitted? I see at least three different threads where you've submitted the same old supercar derivative where you ask for other users to inflate your ego. So anyone who takes a complete dislike to any of them is "ATotalMoron.InneedAbrainSuergon"- how stupid. At least learn to spell properly if you're making a half-hearted attempt at sarcasm.
You still haven't given a single answer to any of my comments- all you do is deflect them by saying I'm insulting you and putting you down. In fact, it's you that is the one that is repeating one's self. Same car, same reply to anyone who doesn't think your design is the best thing ever.

So here it is- once and for all. If you've chosen to "ignore" me again, then fine- hopefully some other young and aspiring would-be designer will actually absorb this information:

1. You haven't responded to questions about your background in design.
Do you have any sort of knowledge about design? I'm assuming you didn't go to art/design school, but you should at least have some awareness about design movements, like the Industrial Revolution, Bauhaus etc.

2. You still haven't answered criticism about lack of sketching.
Sketching is critical, and initial proposals need to be in sketch form. They don't have to be ultra-flash airbrush type jobs- just simple 2D visuals will usually suffice, along with some slicker coloured renderings at a later stage.
Learn to draw cars and visualise the proportions. Life drawing is a good way to learn how to develop your technique and linework.
Learn to draw cars. Start with sketches of actual cars and see if you can emulate the proportions, the surfaces/light breaks.
Learn about perspective and foreshortening.
Wheels- get some ellipse guides for the slicker visuals, but learn to draw wheels if you can. A quick sketch of a proposal will need a quick sketch of a wheel, and if you can do it without breaking out the full set of ellipse guides then you're ready to roll.
For those interested in sketching, check out Car Design News- there's renderings galore there, as well as a few useful tutorials.

3. For these cars that you've designed- where's the actual design progression? How have you come to the conclusion that the world actually needs a another supercar clone on the roads? And who's going to buy it? How are you proposing to make these things? By that, I mean construction- are you proposing a spaceframe? Or do you think you might be able to wrangle enough money from your engineers to develop a unibody construction?
What materials are you proposing to use? Aluminium? Carbon fibre? GRP? See all this comes from engineers, who depend on the bean counters, who work closely with market people who might actually know if these things could sell, and how much the consumers will actually pay for it.
Have you looked at the competition? It's all well and good designing something, but if there's something out there that's more desirable to the consumer, then what's the point?? And quite frankly for me, there are more desirable products out there.
Last but not least- legislation. You need to look into this if you're seriously wanting to design roadcars and not blue-sky pipe dreams. Search the internet, or ask at cardesignnews.com......

4. Some of the proportions on your cars need re-evaluating.
For one, the windscreen is too steep (legislation) and curved too extremely (which is far too difficult to manufacture anyway). This combination would distort the drivers view too much for any type approval.
Another, is the tumblehome. Tumblehome is angle of the greenhouse (think side windows) in comparison to the vertical when viewed from the from front. This isn't too bad, but the combined effects of this with the extreme windscreen curvature and elevation gives the vehicle very awkward look....

5. Also think about where you're putting surfaces and shutlines. For example- on some of your designs, the rear wing looks like an afterthought, and is hideously modelled with what appears to be a single surface. Think about how one surface interacts with another surface, and how panels join. Another example is that some your doors would never open properly in real life....
Think about the shutlines too- some of the shutlines are unnecessary, and you need to think about how and where they go. More panelling adds costs in terms of tooling, and construction time.
Use surfaces for adding interesting light breaks to a panel. A good light break will prevent a surface from looking too "plain" and can give a surface some visual tension as well as actual physical strength. Designers spend hours upon hours perfecting surfaces, and for most manufacturers, their surface quality and graphics is part of their visual signature. This is more so from European manufacturers.

6. For budding designers, some maths skills would be useful. This will be useful mostly at college when you need to construct accurate scale models and technical drawings.
I think Phantom stated higher levels of mathematics on CDN......

7. 3D CAD knowledge is useful, but it's not the be-all and end-all.
As CARSNCARS has stated previously, a digital model (if any at all) will usually come very late on in the development stage. Any 3D model will be based upon fixed points such as positions for the occupants, points for the windscreen/cowl, exterior dimensions etc, as well as numerous legislation requirements of which there are usually multiple countries to consider, each with their own type approval. These can be as simple as a foglamp, to minimum height for lights, to the sweep of the windscreen wiper.
When ANY model is constructed, whether it be a virtual 3D or actual scaled/full sized clay model, you always start with elevation views(front/back/side etc) of the package drawing with hardpoints/dimensions and you will usually make an proportionally accurate drawing of the design over this then use data from the drawing as reference for the basis of model. I don't know of anyone who has EVER gone straight to the model....

8. Again, could you explain what you meant by "confidentiality"....? Just as I suspected- you're talking nonsense.....

If you're so right about everything, then I challenge you to disregard my comments on this post with adequate justification.



P.S. You need to work on your English.......


Oh, as for numbware- if you haven't got anything to say, then you can stop wasting space too. I don't see you actually agreeing with Phantom, whereas Carsncars and several other people on other forums have backed me up.
Oh by the way, great work on that Beetle- you desecrated it nicely. What was the point of that??

Spaghetti is right, there are ALOT of issues that go into the design of a car, from legal, to packaging, homologation for various countries, crash reqts., etc. No single person can do it all, even a small team has trouble.

In regards to cardesignnews.com , that forum is frequented by at least 2 people that have worked, or are working on existing supercars (the Saleen S7, and Mosler MT900). I know if I was new to the industry, and looking to design such a car, I would be asking these guys for help, advice, and try to learn from them, but I have yet to see a question directed their way.

Anyway, I've learned alot from cardesignnews.com and their forums.

I didn't come here to trade insults- I'm sorry if you misconstrued these comments as a personal attack, but the personal attacks were started by yourself.....

Misconstrued? The reason I ignored you should be quite obvious. Lets revisit my favorite moments….

First post….
It's the amateurs and the kids with copies of 3DStudioMax that brings down the forums of sites like cardesignnews and conceptcar....

..and another favorite moment…

I can't believe you're still spinning this "design" BS- you clearly have no knowledge of design whatsoever

..well, lets move onto a misconception (without any proof to back up this misconception) that because I don’t describe the entire design process to a bunch of people who only care how fast the car is and how good it looks that my design is totally irrelevant…

you don't describe any influences from any other areas of design- be it graphic design, product design, interior design, architecture,- not a bean. All you're interested is in fast cars and gimicks.


Wait, there’s more, second post:

ancient pirate copies of 3D Studio Max
I spent hard earned $$$ thank you. What about you?

...and something are more obvious insults…
Get a life you loser.
Oh, and I wasn't going to say this before, but your work is crap.

...and a cool quote from the fast and the delirious crowd (that cant read)…
Have you actually taken in any of the advice that's been put to you??

…and some personal cuts…
how can anyone even take you seriously????

And wait kids, the fun hasn’t stopped yet, time for post #3.

Somebody tell this fool to get real.
What a sore loser- this pr*ck can't uphold his argument, and so throws his toys out the pram- what a d*ckhead. ONE single post to his thread and he's mad!! How mature of him.

…he knows I’ve held arguments before, so he likes flame wars… wait, someone is wondering why the inferno version 2.0 isn’t better than the inferno version 2.0…

So why isn't he improving??

…and another your work totally sucks ***…
This guy doesn't even fall into the amateur category.

..and the personal insults that “this guy is a total moron and knows nothing,” so I’ll try to cut at his reputation more, ruining his reputation everywhere I can find him. Lets get this negative propaganda wagon roiling!!!!…

If you guys seriously want to get into car design, then check out http://www.cardesignnews.com. Do not listen to what this guy had to say!! At CarDesignNews, you will learn about the requiremens of getting into the industry, see sketching tutorials, interviews with real top designers and see a lot of innovation. If you stay here, you will never even know what car design is, but for inflating this idiots over-sized ego.


…and a little proof that he doesn’t belong on this forum, even his backup only agreed with the minor obvious facts of car design, not the insults of my design…
Oh, as for numbware- if you haven't got anything to say, then you can stop wasting space too. I don't see you actually agreeing with Phantom, whereas Carsncars and several other people on other forums have backed me up.
Oh by the way, great work on that Beetle- you desecrated it nicely. What was the point of that??






Now since I’ve stated all of this, I only have one question. Answer it in less than 3 sentences. WHY THE HE** AM I [1] MOSTLY IGNORING YOU, [2]THINK YOU ARE FULL OF ****, AND [3]ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN INSULTS?

Maybe if you cut out the insults, you could have said your 2500 words in about 350 words. Maybe I would listen to you and reply. If you are going to be a total idiot, fine, but leave me alone. You don’t belong to this forum, and you have no context of the attitude of this forum. If you hung out on this forum for a month posting everywhere, then I’ll give you some merit. Your posts are completely inappropriate here.
I have little need to reply directly while your posts are laced with insults. Doing such starts massive flame wars. I’ve asked you to leave multiple times. I think others would agree while you display some knowledge of car design (most likely acquired from www.cardesignnews.com’s forums), coming here was not a good idea.

Would somone else tell this idiot to shut up?

P.S. Don’t assume I’m pissed. I’m really quite amused they you persist like a total idiot (personal insult). You’re annoying as ****, but that’s what is so funny.

I see you still haven't responded fully to my 8 points at the end of my last message then.....:rolleyes:

I didn't once say you had a pirate copy of 3DStudio- you should read carefully you idiot. Are you telling me that starry eyed kids like 14 year old Numbware are going to go out and spend thousands on this software?? I don't think so. You acted immaturely by telling everybody to boycott http://www.cardesignnews.com just because you thought they were immature and jealous. That site is by far the best site for any person interested in the automotive design industry and you know it. I got personal because you did- you took criticism from other users and turned it into a vendetta.

So you counted my words at 2500 did you? Well 2500 words is nothing- that's not even a weekend essay for most students. And I type fast. I also type fast because I also know how to spell...
No amount of words is going to get past your egocentric self is it???

Let me quote you:

"Warning!!! Explicit Content!!!
Reasons:
1. Very very sexy car
2. Very very sexy curved body
3. Topless Photos!!!

(No, there arent any female pictures, there're only car pics)"

Well, with comments like this, you really are full of yourself aren't you??

So why don't you respond to Gunman then? He's backed me up all the way, and Carsncars too. I tried to respond to you in a positive way with those 8 bullet points on my last post- I really did hope you would at read them at least with interest as they were hard facts about the industry, and not comments based on personal opinion or conjecture.

O.K. Congratulations you complete idiot. You successfully ruined one of my threads. Good job moron. You just moved up from complete idiot to the scum of society. Yes, there are personal insults, but I’m merely restating the facts.

I already pointed out that your first post was not objective, and you can't argue against that.

Seriously, you have no idea what sort of people hang out here. They're kids/teenagers/young adults, racers, car fans, car designers(not the type on www.cardesignnes.com), mechanics, etc. They like to have fun. They aren't stuffy wannabe car designers. So, I talk to them in a way they'll like. Hot sexy curved topless cars. I thought that was pretty funny considering that I somehow got my site listed as adult content on WebSense (I fixed that). I don't have a clue why you missed the obvious humor.

Why do you insist on being a pain in the ass? You’re a total idiot if you truly believe you aren’t being extremely insulting from the very first post, and barely objective. The little objective parts are merely used to pretend your insults are justified. Any 14-year-old could get that from www.cardesignnews.com forums (and they do). You're mostly wasting your time. Even if you type as fast as I do, there is little point to publicly downgrading me unless you're afraid I'll take your job.

How many times do I have to ask you to leave? I could try to get you banned, but I don't think that is necessary. If you really want a response, sort out your questions from the insults, and send me an e-mail.

Right, and how did I not post an objective first post??? I based those comments on YOUR responses to previous replies from other threads on other forums (all started with the same "this is my design isn't it wonderful, I'm getting someone to make it" post) and who gave objective opinions based on FACT and knowledge from being in industry, only for you to instantly dismiss them with your unbelievable pig-headedness. So much for wanting to know how you can improve..... For your information, my knowledge is based upon ACTUAL EXPERIENCE you pri*ck. If Car Design News was that thorough then at least you would have an inkling of how it all actually works you complete idiot. And you still haven't explained your supposed "number one" status over there- just like all your other over-exaggerated claims- complete garbage.
So now this forum is for people who want to have FUN now are they?? So what happened to the idea of you selling your idea to a manufacturer? Because that's where all this began.... Is your website just there for a laugh, and you don't really run a studio?? For your information, most people here ARE wannabe car designers- you included!! And just for the record, I actually think 14 year old Numbwares could probably get into a good design school with the right influence. Your announcement that everybody should boycott CDN just because you couldn't uphold your lame exasperated claims and your flawed opinions of how a vehicle should actually be designed is one thing- but to deem them "immature and jealous" is just laughable- you still haven't justified this statement, yet you keep banging on about it. I don't belong here, or there or anywhere- but when you make false claims, then why shouldn't I make a statement????? This IS a public forum isn't it????

Oh, and I sent you questions. Those 8 bullet points- read them!!!

The only person who ruined this thread is you- you with your single-minded incredible self-belief that you are never wrong. The reason this thread is ruined is because the kids have stopped coming here to massage your over-inflated ego, and the fact that you cannot reasonably respond to any criticism from anyone......

Originally posted by PhantomDesign
O.K. Congratulations you complete idiot. You successfully ruined one of my threads. Good job moron.

How about just ignoring what you view as personal attacks, and address the core issues in those 8 points? From personal experience, I find it more satisfying to reply to a web debate with substantiated facts, or experienced based support, rather than flames. It seems to get under peoples skin when you can let insults roll off, and "own" them with information.

Fine, I’ll respond to the 8 points:


Do you have any sort of knowledge about design?
I’ve done extensive research of what others know and research into the undiscovered. There are many areas of design to have knowledge of. Be more specific.
…lack of sketching…
I sketch quite often. I just don’t feel the need to show my sketches. I focus primarily on the final product. I think it is vastly more important that I can produce than all of the detail how I got there. There are certain cases in which knowledge of certain aspects of my design process would be important, but my design process varies greatly depending on the type of “job” I’m working on. I’ll use very different design processes if I’m designing for a specific car company than if I’m making something any car company can adopt into their product line. Also, if I’m designing for a corporation, the focus is a large audience while I have very solid techniques for designing a car specifically for an individual. To limit the ways I go about my design process would restrict my creativity and capability, and the ability to grow and improvise. On a side note, most sketches I do are intended to record ideas for me, and therefore aren’t very artistic. I can do artistic sketches, but usually it’s a waste of my time if I’m not designing for a specific client I’m communicating with.
How have you come to the conclusion that the world actually needs a another super-car clone on the roads?
I wouldn’t consider it a clone. I think you should watch the video I uploaded to the internet. You’ll see that the design is more in-depth than the pictures. Perhaps one missing factor in your argument is that a super-car like exterior could easily be applied to a $25k car as it could be applied to a $200k car. If someone wants to make my inferno the next Mitsubishi Eclipse, there’d be a very cheap, extremely hot car on the road. My design is undoubtedly very hot according to the majority of [1] car fans, [2] people I meet in person, [3] and people of all sorts of varieties all over the internet. It doesn’t have to be a super-car, but I built it in a way that it could become one.
Have you looked at the competition?
Yes. Your point?
Some of the proportions on your cars need re-evaluating…….
I’m not completely sure I completely understand this critique. I got the part where the window could act as a lens, but maybe you should take one of the pictures, and draw diagrams/arrows on-top of it in some paint program.
Another example is that some your doors would never open properly in real life....
I checked all my designs, and the predator, assault, and inferno doors can open properly without intersecting the rest of the vehicle. I’ll have to take another look at the panther. About the inferno movie, I forgot to make the mirrors rotate upwards, but after something like 40 hours of rendering a clip, it wasn’t worth my time to remake that clip.
Designers spend hours upon hours perfecting surfaces…
I spent at least 2 hours on every 4-spline area; often much much longer than that.
For budding designers, some math skills would be useful.
I doubt there are many (if any) artistic designers that have higher mathematical skills than I do. I slept through my Mathematics Bachelors of Science. I don’t think this will be a problem AT ALL.
3D CAD knowledge is useful…
I guess I already have that….
Any 3D model will be based upon fixed points such as positions for the occupants…(continued)
I give as much consideration of that as much as possible. If a client had any sort of dimensions (for example a Chevrolet Camaro mod where I couldn’t replace the windshield), I could easily build exactly around those dimensions. I’d first build the substructure, then stylize over that sub structure. If I have a substructure to work with, then I build over that. If I don’t, I try to approximate one in my head and use that. One example dimensions in the inferno is I used the dimensions from a real sports seat, and then tried to make enough leg room for someone 6’6”. I already know how this works, so if there is something specific that I missed feel free to point it out.
Again, could you explain what you meant by "confidentiality"....?
Yeah there’s this multibillion-dollar corporation that is paying me 2.8 million dollars to design your momma. I’m obviously joking, but what would be confidential if I told you? I guess I shouldn’t have mentioned it in the first place.
You need to work on your English
I usually don’t take too much time worrying about spelling and grammar, and sometimes use obvious non-grammatically correct language on purpose on more informal forums, cuzz that’s the way it is :)


I really don’t see the point of replying to most of that because it is general knowledge, and the questions are mostly rhetorical. If you want me to answer any more of your questions, you may consider dropping your insults. To me that list of eight looked like a ploy to validities yourself so you could continue your insults. Just like disposed villain on cardesignnews.

I'm curious, and excuse me if this is too far off topic, but do you have actual clients? No need to name names, confidentiality is understood, I'm just curious if you already have clients, or if your intent with these designs is attract clients (similar to how B. Engineering went about it, but without producing a physical part). If you have clients in the auto industry, are they large corps., or small niche manufacturers?


On a side note, the headlights look low on the car in the video. Scale is hard to judge, but they look like they are under the legal limit. No biggie for concepts, but could be a downstream pain in the arse.

Your designs are attractive at first, but they're nothing new.. They attract attention because the look good, but not in their own way- it's the generic supercar.. Just try something new- your 'different' designs look like the same car morphed over.

Just a point- try something new, that isn't already out there or done before! Maybe throw in some sharp edges (where they'd look good, of course) for contrast.

BTW- from a non-design point of view- your cars look nice.. That probably explains the #1 rated portfo., people that are new to CDN or just browsing (which like 2/3rds are).

I'm sorry i would have to agree with carsncars, but the designs you have for you cars are kinda un-origional, unless you have some serious breakthroughs in the chassis or drivetrain underneeth the skins, then i would take all that back. But i still appreciate the time and effort that you put into them. Good Luck :bigthumb:

Well there you go- you've explained everything to me now. You must be a real designer then- don't forget your black polo neck and rimless spectacles- you wouldn't be a proper designer without those.....

So you've looked at a few websites and that gives you complete authority to dictate your opinion over anyone else's? There are techniques for working in a design environment, automotive epecially, that you're not just going to pick up on the internet.
And yes, I've seen your sketching thanks- let's leave it at that.....

ftp://pcdan.myftp.org/reefer/New Folder/phantom.jpg

No use replying to my posts in your personal brand of nonchalance- yes you do 3D, yes maths, etc etc- it's quite obvious that you're still adamant you know it all. Fine. If you looked properly again, it was also aimed at other people that might take an interest in the industry as a future career move- in all fairness, you did tell me you were ignoring me...
If you really do think you can put a car on the road, then fine- just let me know when you do and I'll eat my own d*ck. But a Mitsubishi Eclipse?? Are you serious? I was about to give you the benefit of hindsight, but you really take the cake... Because designing a mid-size coupe or the best ever supercar is oh-so-easy for you isn't it??? You're saying that you can design this car, then CHOOSE whether to build it as a mid-engined supercar which sell in low numbers and usually made by hand, or a mass-marketed front-engined coupe based on mechanicals from a mid-sized family saloon??? I've never seen a Mitsubishi Eclipse constructed from...er, what was it again? Well, it's gotta be some sort of composite, as some of the panels in your car are nigh on impossible to press from steel..... And the doors are still dodgy... But hey- you're right of course...

You say:
My design is undoubtedly very hot according to the majority of [1] car fans, [2] people I meet in person, [3] and people of all sorts of varieties all over the internet. It doesn’t have to be a super-car, but I built it in a way that it could become one.

My God! There you go again! You're just so full of yourself! Which car fans are these?? Your friends who say "yeah" because they don't know any better or don't want to offend you? Or your cult following of impressionable schoolboy leet-speaking non-"noobies" who pat your back fervously whenever you reveal the next big thing???
And how exactly is your car "hot"?? Is it "hot" because you've managed to STEAL various design features from other cars then merge them together in a completely tasteless and hideous fashion????

So you spend at least two hours refining your surfaces?? Wow. I wished Mercedes-Benz could get it right in so easily- it'd cost less to develop cars and I could finally afford that SL......

And so you've "designed" your car to facilitate occupants of at least 6'6"?? Maybe so, but they'd have a hard time getting in and out....
This is known as ingress/egress, but I suppose you knew that already didn't you....??
A Chevy Camaro is a completely different car- I doubt you've even considered the prospect of wheelarch intrusion especially as the wheels are considerably larger, and your occupants sit much lower with legs extended....I see there's also little room for struts, so you must be using wishbones (a-la supercar of course)- even more intrusion....
i doubt you'd pull that one off for a supercar, let alone a Mitsubishi Eclipse.....

And which exactly of my comments are general knowledge?? Just stop talking crap. And I stopped insulting you ages ago- stop hiding behind this excuse to avoid actually giving a reasonable response.

Sketch: That’s a personal sketch, not a display sketch. I agree that skecth is crap from an artist view, but that sketch is not intended to be art itself, but a basis for another work of art. Read what I wrote earlier, and you'd realise I already adressed this, especailly if you read cardesignnews forums.

Mitsubishi Eclipse comment: I could easily port the styling to a similar construction. Chances are the door would be less exotic.

Full of my self?: Does it really matter if I’m full of myself. I gave up arguing this issue long ago. I replied once to you about this, and that is enough.

Reasonable Responses: You haven’t completely cut the insults yet.

Seriously, I think our communication would be much better off if you e-mailed me. I’m much more willing to reply to every tiny question you might have. [email protected] All you’ve achieved here was destroying my thread.