Brake light and traction control issue

I have a problem with my 2001 Taurus SEL instrument panel brake light coming on and staying on sometimes for days. When it's on my traction control doesn't work but sometimes while it's on the traction control light will illuminate for a few seconds and then after that the brake light will go off. Conversely if it is off and the traction control kicks in (we've had a ton of snow here) then the brake light comes on and the traction control gets disabled.
I've checked the brakes, they look ok. Fluid is good, no leaks I can see. Parking brake switch seems to work fine. Car seems to brake fine. I've searched the web and have come across posts of people with similar problems but the answers and discusion confuse me. What I would like to know is:

Can it be one of the ABS wheel sensors or ring. If so how do I know which one?
Can it be the ABS control module?

Can it be an actual mechanical issue with the brtakes. I've been doing my own brake jobs on Taurus's forever.
Can it be a bad fluid level sensor.
Can it be a bad fuse or a ground wire issue.

Sometimes the light will stay on for days. Sometimes it will stay off for days and sometimes it is off but when I turn the car back on it comes on. Seems completely random, i can't seem to correlate it any one pattern.
I took the car in and the mechanic couldn't find anything wrong with the braking system and there were no codes to be found BUT I don't know if he used the right software for the ABS codes and of course he couldn't get the stupid light to come on when he had the car.

On a not so related note, is there anyway to changed bulbs on the instrument cluster without pulling the cluster out. I have at least 3 bulbs out and it sucks.

Thanks!!!!

A standard scan tool will not work with the ABS system, it needs to be either a specific scan tool for the brakes or a professional grade scan tool.

The issues you describe really could be due to any of the items you note, however I don't think a faulty brake fluid level sensor would cause the ABS to not work. My guess would be either a wheel speed sensor or a problem with the Hydraulic Control Unit. I'm not totally sure of the specifics for your 2001 model year Taurus, but usually the system will perform a self test after the car is started. That may explain why sometimes the light does not come on right away after you start the engine. And the problem could be as simple as a weak charging system or a loose/dirty connection.

The easiest way to diagnose this would be to get an ABS scan tool and see what direction the codes point you.

As for changing bulbs in the instrument cluster, sorry, you need to pull the cluster. The good news is that's not all that difficult, at least not when you hands are warm.

-Rod

Thanks Shorod. I was trying to avoid taking the car to a ford dealer who obviously has the correct scan tools for the job but that may be my best option. Before I do that I'll check for obvious signs like damaged sensors or loose wiring even though I kind of did that already although it wasn't that thorough as it has been so freaking cold up here that working in the garage is just painful. Where is SPRING!!

There may be some larger independent shops that have a scan tool that can scan the ABS system. You might also be able to purchase an Actron ABS BrakeScan scan tool for less than the dealership would charge to read the codes, plus you'll have the tool for future troubleshooting.

As for testing the sensors you could test them quite reliably with an oscilloscope if you happen to have access to one of them. But if the sensors all test fine you're still stuck needing to know what the code(s) is/are pointing to.

-Rod

You make a good point The diagnostic probably would cost me some coin that I'd be better off investing in my own instrument. Would that model work on a dodge as my wife's car is a Durango. That would help justify it.

You'll need to check the compatibility list to know if it will work on the Durango. I don't have the BrakeScan but rather a professional scan tool that access all systems.

-Rod

You'll need to check the compatibility list to know if it will work on the Durango. I don't have the BrakeScan but rather a professional scan tool that access all systems.

-Rod

You son of a gun! I could've used that tool a couple weeks ago. Oh well, my issue is fixed now. :) Get this: a new EGR valve on my wife's 2007 Chevy Equinox got rid of the check engine light (was throwing code P0404) along with the "SERVICE STABILITRAK" and "SERVICE TRACTION CONTROL" warnings. Who'd a thought???

As far as the OP's issue goes, without knowing anything else I'd guess some debris (such as salt/ice) might be stuck in one the the ABS reluctor wheels or one of the wheel speed sensors or harness going to one of said sensors is bad.

I had an issue like this a few years ago on my wife's Olds Intrigue and it turned out to be a corroded harness due to a missing weatherproof seal. I cleaned it up a bit, sprayed some silicone spray on it, and put a new seal on it that I got from a junkyard and the problem went away. I don't know how much of this would apply to a Taurus since most of my knowledge is in GM vehicles. I presume it would still be relevant though.

A couple other less likely suspects would be a bad ABS relay or bad brake pedal position switch.

Thanks everyone!!

I ordered the scan tool. Got it from Amazon for 93.00 and free shipping. Not too bad. It doesn't cover my wife's 1999 Dodge Durango unfortunately but I didn't feel like looking further.

I took off the front wheels this weekend to look at the wheel sensors but didn't see anything unusual. Tried to take off the sensor but I need a torx socket which I didn't have and it was frozen in place solid so I soaked them in WD-40 and will pick up a torx socket set next week.

Hey I did notice something troubling when I was looking at my sensors. On the left drivers side to the left of the wheel assembly is a mount. I think it's the transaxle mount. It looked in bad shape. The two halves were literaly offset. I pulled out my trusty Haynes manual (not so trusty for me as it has not enough detail and tries to cover too many model years) and it says that on 99 and later models the engine and transmission have to be removed from the bottom of the car to change this where on earlier models it can be done simply by jacking the engine up. Is this possible because if so that is out of my league and I can imagine it will cost a fortune to have it done.
Someone tell me this isn't true.
Anyway as soon as I get my trusty scanner I'll let everyone know what I uncover.

Well I got my scanner. All excited I read the manual did the setup plugged it into the port under my dash and.......................I get a communication error!!! It can read anything off the computer. I came that close to flinging the thing into the yard!! Sent an email to Actron technical service but I'm sure they'll come back with the same suggestions that are in the troubleshooting guide. I checked the fuses again. Also checked the wiring as best I can. Can this mean the ABS control module is dead?
By the way now the brake light stays on all the time. Also I noticed no traction control ligtht or abs light on dash when I start the car.

Well I got my scanner. All excited I read the manual did the setup plugged it into the port under my dash and.......................I get a communication error!!! It can read anything off the computer. I came that close to flinging the thing into the yard!! Sent an email to Actron technical service but I'm sure they'll come back with the same suggestions that are in the troubleshooting guide. I checked the fuses again. Also checked the wiring as best I can. Can this mean the ABS control module is dead?
By the way now the brake light stays on all the time. Also I noticed no traction control ligtht or abs light on dash when I start the car.

If you're not getting a bulb test for the ABS and traction control, that may mean the module is dead. :frown:

You might want to check for power to the module power lines though before condemning the module.

-Rod

This morning when I started the car the traction control light did come on and the brake light stayed off, until I backed out of the driveway. Then the brake light came on again and stayed on the whole ride to work.

If the module was dead would that explain why the scan tool can't communicate with it?

Where excatly is the module anyway?

If the module were dead that would explain the lack of communication, but would not explain the function of the ABS light.

To be clear, is it the red Brake light that is coming on or the yellow ABS light?

-Rod

It is definitely the brake warning light ,not the ABS light.

By the way I contacted the tech service for the scanner about the communication problem and they told me to try a different model year or try putting in the Windstar? Go figure.

This saga just keeps getting better and better.:banghead:

Hmmm, if it's the red brake warning light rather than the ABS light, have you checked the brake fluid level and condition of the brake pads to make sure all is okay there? I don't really understand the tie between the red Brake indicator and the traction control system. On Infiniti cars this combination would point to an electronic throttle issue, but I don't think Ford is quite that cryptic.

-Rod

I did check the fluid level and it is at the top. I just did the brakes a few months ago, new rotors, drums, and pads. No leaks, wheel sensors are all clean. The issue did start after my last brake job so I don't know if there is a connection. However when I start the car, if the traction control light lights up then I know the brak light will go out, and it does. If the traction control light doesn't lioght up then the red brake warning light will stay light. I'm pretty sure it's the same for the ABS light however I have to confirm that. Haven't been able to check it. Tricky catching all those lights on start up.

By the way I followed the instructions the scanner tech gave me. I tried several different model years with no luck. And the 9449 model scanner doesn't even give me an option to choose Windstar. I'm going to go back to him and ask him if this condition means the module is dead. I do want to check power to the module. Can you tell me where it is?:banghead:

I can try. I do not have the factory service manual for the 2001 model year but do have the 2002 and I think I also have the 2000 model year. If the location and wiring for the HCU is the same for each, then I can be reasonably sure your 2001 will also be the same. I don't have access to the service manuals here at work though so at best it will be this evening before I can look it up.

It will likely be under the hood, will have the brake lines connected to it (so it's probably near the master cylinder), and will probably have a motor connected to it that resembles the windshield wiper motor or blower motor.

-Rod

Thanks, I'll try to take a peek tonight when I get home and see if I can see it.

I read (either in this forum or another) that the cost to replace the module if it is bad is over a grand and it's not something the home mechanic can do because the system has to be bled and the module reprogrammed(??) That would really suck.

I only have the 2000 model year information for Ford Trucks. For the 2002 model year Taurus the HCU is located under the battery tray. You need to remove the battery tray, disconnect the electrical connector, disconnect the 6 rigid brake lines to the HCU, then unbolt the HCU and remove from the car. There apparently is another wiring harness that will need to be disconnected before you can remove the HCU from the vehicle.

The new HCU will need to be bled after installation using a professional scan tool. The procedure doesn't make mention of programming the HCU to the car/PCM.

-Rod

Thanks Shorod. You've been a great help in all of this.

I guess I'll have to wait to till the weekend to do this. I'll check all the wiring and connections first and I still end up with the same result I guess I know where my tax refund check is going.

I'll let you know how I make out.

Please post your result if you can on this issue. My friend has an 03 that does the same thing.

Hopefully I'll have some news after this weekend. This isssue is stressing me out I would love to get it resolved one way or another.

Update, kind of. Spent some time this weekend, removed battery and battery tray and sure enough there it was under the battery tray bracket. Al;ready looks like a knuckle buster to replace. Tried to pull off the connector and check for corroded pins but couldn't even budge the thing and no room to work. Is there som kind of clip that holds it in place or can I just pry the connector off.

I'm not sure whatr the next step is. Shorod, you mentioned you need a proffessional scan tool to bleed a new HCU. What do you meqan by that?

Looks like a dead end and I see my tax refund going into the ford dealer's pocket.

Which part, what do I mane by bleeding the HCU or by "professional scan tool"?

I suspect bleeding the HCU is easily understood. You'll be opening the brake lines and installing a different one that isn't full of fluid, therefore you'll need to bleed the air from the system. To do this, you need a scan tool that is bi-directional and will interface with the ABS system. As far as I know you have very few options to do this such as the Autel MaxiDAS DS708, possibly the OTC Genisys with appropriate software, maybe the SnapOn, of course the Ford WDS and NGS systems, and probably very few others.

-Rod

I have a 2001 sel with trc conrtol and antilock. Anti lock light came on briefly trac control intermittent and brake light continues. Just diagnosed as ABS controller.$1200 I just locked up and spun a dbl 360 in an intersection:runaround:
Cant afford a fix but cant afford not too

Welcome to the forum. What were you doing at the time when the brakes locked up? Did you call the dealer or Ford directly and explain what happened?

-Rod

[QUOTE=shorod;7003987]Welcome to the forum. What were you doing at the time when the brakes locked up? Did you call the dealer or Ford directly and explain what happened?


I was driving 35mph on a wet road when the street light turned yellow. I hit the brakes gently since I was well aware the antilocks did not operate. The rear locked like I was on a sheet of ice fishtailing all the way into the intersection where i spun around ended up facing the opposite direction with my rear bumper about 2 ft from the front of another car.

I took it to Midas to diagnose the problem, mechanic took it for a drive again wet road, he almost ended up in a ditch. Ran a full diagnostic and could not communicate with the controller at all. Checked power to it, checked sensors tone rings. It took them quite a while to finally get me a price. 800 + for the controller, 200+ to program, 250+ labor. BTW this car also has trac control.

I have found rebuilt online but even my normal mechanic won't touch it for liability issues. I drive 75 miles round trip every day to work on a hwy mostly under construction. What happens at 65-70 mph if I have to stop fast? I cant afford $12-1300 to fix this and cant do it myself.
Has this been a problem issue with this model, I know 2000 and 2001 were notorious for brake issues.

My brake light is on also but no abs or trac light. Midas charged 104 to do diagnostic. Dealer wanted 150... Is the abs pump the same as the controller?:confused:

I had exact the same issue for my Ford Taurus 2001. Had a repair workshop guy to check the problem, he didn't find any issue with the brake system, but suggested the problem might be the master cylinder sensor. I didn't let the guy to replace the master cylinder as I was relocating to a new place and had no time. After I moved to a new place, I went to Sears auto-center with a hope to fix the issue. Looks like Sears auto-center did NOT really do the work - they just changed the master cylinder and did NOTHING to clear the code. The brake light is still ON there.

I was trying do some research online. Looks like the problem is from the ABS wheel speed sensor. Will go to Sears auto-center to see how these guys solve the problem.

The cost to fix this issue is pretty high. Currently it was already out of my budget. If it needs much more, I am considering to trade in my car.

I see others have this problem also. Looks like Ford has another well designed system to be proud of!! I still have no communication with the ABS and the ABS light and trac control light don't flash when I start the car. The brake warning light has now been on for 2 years. When I get around to it I might just replace the master cylinder and resevoir just to make the light go away because I'm convinced its a bad fluid level sensor but I can't get the dam plug off to check. You would think they could put the plug clip side up to make it easy to release!
By the way I found the service manuals online and now have pages of diagnostics to do to confirm a dead ABS controller, if I can give up a weekend to spend on it.

Biit of an update if anyone cares.
Bought a used copy of the 2001 service manual (2 volumes and 10 pounds but great to have) so I can do a diagnosis on the ABS to see if it is really dead which I'm sure it is. Finally got to that sensor on the brake light and unplugged the damm thing. Light went out. Yeah!! Interesting that the brake light still flashes when I start the car even with the sensor unplugged? If I care enough I'll replace the master cylinder.
Question. Is the ABS module and the HCU one unit or can I change the module without changing the HCU. If I could do that I wouldn't need the system bled, correct?

Thanks

The service manual reads as if the HCU needs to be removed, including disconnecting the hydraulic lines, in order to to access the ABS module. The ABS module does appear to be separately replaceable though, so if you're able to get to the 6 screws that hold the ABS module to the HCU, you can probably replace it without disconnecting the hydraulic lines and avoid needing to bleed the brakes. The drawings in the manual don't give me a good visual though as to how likely that is.

-Rod

Thanks Rod. It might be worth giving it a try to avoid having to go to the dealer to have it bled, that is assuming I could just purchase the abs module by itself. Time to surf the web!

One more thing. If I somehow manage to change the abs module only I assume I would still have to take it to the Ford dealer for programming. But would the car be drivable to get there if I haven't touched the HCU?

THanks

I don't recall reading that the ABS module needs to be programmed to the car, I'd have to check again.

-Rod

That would be great and increase my inclination to proceed down this path to finally fix this thing.

Thanks

Here are the steps from the 2001 factory service manual for replacing the ABS module. Note there is no mention of reprogramming.
--------


Remove the battery tray.
Disengage the wiring connector lock.
Disconnect the wiring.
Disconnect the brake lines.
Remove the bolts and the electronic control unit (ECU)/hydraulic control unit (HCU) assembly.
Disconnect the wiring.
Remove the screws and the ECU.
Loosen the nuts and remove the bracket.
To install, reverse the removal procedure.

Bleed the brake system. For additional information, refer to Section 206-00 (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/S1H~us~en~leftside=S1HS600L.htm&rightside=S1HS600R.htm&market=us&lang=en~gen~2col.htm).


------------
-Rod

If the module were dead that would explain the lack of communication, but would not explain the function of the ABS light.http://www.smokemaps.com/1.jpghttp://www.smokemaps.com/28.jpghttp://www.smokemaps.com/3.jpghttp://www.smokemaps.com/5.jpg http://www.smokemaps.com/4.jpghttp://www.smokemaps.com/29.jpg

I don't even remember anymore if we confirmed which lights were unplugged, come on, or flash. Skimming back through older posts, I think he was talking about the red BRAKE light in the cluster, not the ABS or Traction Control lights. If that's the case, you're correct, that BRAKE light is not associated with the ABS or Traction Control that I can find in the wiring diagrams. Although, the brake fluid level switch does get fed back to the ABS system. I'm not sure which sensor was unplugged to get the BRAKE light to go out. If it was this sensor, that would explain why the bulb check still works since the bulb is controlled via the GEM.

If that's the case, you have a very good point. Trying to diagnose the ABS/Traction Control system is pointless if the low brake fluid level switch is unplugged....

-Rod

In my situation the abs and traction control lights do not flash when I start the car and I cannot communicate with the ABS module so My conclusion is either it is dead or has no power going to it. The brake light was staying on all the time even though there is plenty of fluid in the resivoir and there isn't anything wrong with the parking brake system. I have concluded that it was pure coincidence that my ABS system and brake light issue occured at the same time, although I have read a lot of posts on other forums and there are a fair amount of people out there reporting abs light problems AND brake light issues occuring at the same time. So if the two systems are not connected there sure are a lot of coincidental stuff going on with this car.
In my case I finally got around to unplugging the sensor at the resivoir and the light has gone out, although it still flashes when I start the car, yet the ABS light and traction control don't. So what check is being done when you turn the ignition key? That the lights on the instrument cluster work?
Anyway after spending way too much time on my lean condition (see other posting) I am taking a break until the weather warms befopre trying to see if I can take out that ABS control module without disconnecting the HCU. Another winter storm headed into the northeast tonight WHERE IS SPRING!

Yep, the bulbs illuminate at startup as a bulb test. In older cars I suspect this was just so the driver could confirm the bulbs work, but on newer cars some of the modules (SRS/Airbag for one) test to make sure the bulb circuit is not open and if the correct amount of resistance is not seen from the bulb, the module will sound a chime. This is so the driver will know if the bulb for a critical system is out. That's something to keep in mind if you are buying a used car and hear strange chimes when starting but don't see any lights on the dash indicating a problem....

-Rod

Tinovolpe - I have almost the exact problem. Please keep us updated on your progress and if you are able to get your code reader to work
Thanks for the great input.

Sorry I haven't answered sooner. Been busy. Where I am with this is that thanks to this site and others, I have decided I can probably remove the ABS module without removing the HCU so I can replace it or send it out to be repaired. I'm convinced it's dead. I got ride of the brake warning light by unplugging the sensor on the master cylinder. So I'm sure the sensor is bad (just like my low coolant sensor was) and I'll have to replace the master cylinder at some point. I'd like to replace just the resivoir but haven't benn able to find just the resivoir and grommets so I may have to buy the whole thing. Not expensive but I want to avoid as much bleeding of brake system as possible. Interesting that even with sensor unplugged the light still flashes on when I start the car and all the instruments lights go through diagnostics. But at least it stays off when I'm driving. Hated looking at the thing.
When I get a weekend to remove the ABS module I'll let everyone know how I made out.:jerking:

Another update folks. I should write a book when this is over. finally found a place that sells just the brake fluid resevoir (Rock Auto $17.99) so I would have to change the master cylinder. Change out was a snap and I was able to plug my brake fluid sensor back in and no light!! Of course ABS didn't come back to life so the job of removing it to get it repaired finally rose to the top of my to do list. I'll let everyone know how it goes.:cool:

Another update folks. I finally got around to getting that ABS module out. Tok about 2 hours total with about a hour to get at it and an hour to figure out how to get at and undo the 6 torzx bolts. It is tight but I wouldn't say terrible. Finally did it with a 1/4 inch ratchet, small socket and a torx bit fitted into that socket and everything taped together so I didn't lose it in the subframe (which happened in the first 5 seconds and I had to go buy another torx bit). Took the module to BBA REMAN. Although they were more expensive than Myairbags.com they were 30 minutes away so I could just drop off and pick up. 2 day turnaround, got it back today and I'll be installing it this weekend. If you do this job you may want to cover those 12 pistons sticking out of the HCU so they don't get covered with dirt or moisture if you need to drive the car. I cut a 1 pint plastic milk carton and fitted it over the pistons and tie wrapped it in place. I also put the connector in a baggie and tied that up to keep dirt out of it. It's been almost 3 years. I hope it works as winter is coming and I really like having that traction control. :wink:

Well I got the ABS module back in the car. Getting it back in took longer than getting it out. Those small screws were tough to get back in and tighten. But good news it I connected it all back up and turn the car on and for the first time in three years saw my little traction control light on start up meaning the system is on! What I don't see is the ABS light on startup though. So this is not over yet. I want to hook up my ABS scan tool and see first if it will communicate with my brought back to life module, and see if it reads any codes. Didn't have the nerve to take it out and slam on the brakes to see if the ABS actually kicked in. Maybe when I get home today I'll give it a shot in an empty parking lot.

My 2000 brake light started to come on and stay on also. I believe the "frickin cold" IS the answer. Coldest winter ever. Mine comes on when its below zero goes off after I drive for awhile comes on when I start out again and never comes on when its the rare "warm" day. I bought brake fluid and topped off with it, and it hasn't happened since even though its still frickin cold. WHERE IS SPRING?! :-)

My theory is that my tired old brake fluid had a freezing point, and this miserable weather reached it. The extra "young" fluid I added to top it off probably rejuvenated the old fluid and lowered its freezing point again?

I have had the intermittent ABS/Traction Control problem for about a month now.The conditions would indicate a bad or loose connection to one of the wheel sensors, but in this weather in NH I haven't tried to check out the sensors. When the ABS/Traction control is out and the brake light is on, the Taurus handles and brakes like a slimy pig. Very scary !!
It would be a shame to replace expensive modules or by scanners before checking for corroded or failing sensors which is the probable cause

Could be that stupid level sensor in the brake fluid resivoir. ford and their dam sensors. I finally, after years, found just the plastic resivoir at Rock auto and changing it was a simple matter and my problem went away. do that and when you fill up the new one bleed all your brakes to get the new fluid in your lines and you'll be good to go.
As for handling when the TC/ABS is out, if you read the three year story behind this post I had the same issue but never noticed any difference in braking other than in the snow I would just spin my wheels. I am SO glad I have my traction control back as this has been a horrid winter and I've used it alot, and that's just getting out of my driveway!!