2000 F150 - Possible Ignition Problem? Intermittent Start Failures

Good evening. I'm getting some good help on my Windstar problems on this forum, so let's turn to my F150 for a bit.

It's a 2000, 5.something V8 engine (5.1, 5.8?) Anyway, it's a bi-fuel CNG model, factory built, not aftermarket.

I have had it for 3.5 years. From the very beginning, I had some weird problems with the ignition. The key could slip right out of the ignition, while running, and it would work just fine. I could even turn the ignition off, and sometimes restart it without the key in it. But then if I jiggled the ignition, I'd hear a click, and then it would work right again (require the key to turn).

About a year ago, I started having a new problem, which I think may be related to this. I'd turn the key to start the truck, and nothing. But not like a bad battery or a bad starter. We've ruled out both of those. It's like it's not recognizing the key or something. When you turn the ignition, there's nothing. No draw on the power, no click of the solinoid, nothing. Jumping doesn't help. We've replaced battery and starter. Same problem. It's very intermittent, perhaps 1 try in 8 or 10. The only thing that seems to get it working again, is I'll set the brake and rake the gear selector from Park all the way down and back up. Then I try again. If it doesn't start, I do it again, and again and again, and eventually it'll behave right and start up. Sometimes it takes 3-5 tries, sometimes it takes 20 or more. It's very frustrating, and it seems to be happening more frequently than before.

I'm wondering could there be something wrong with the ignition, thus it's not detecting the key properly?

Could there be something mechanically loose in the steering column that I need to address?

One other related symptom, is there's some kind of linkage up under the dash, that is connected to the gear selector. A while back, a bolt fell out of that, and then it wouldn't shift all the way to park. It wasn't the only bolt holding it together, but it seemed to allow some slack in the selector. I was able to reach up in there, and put it back in, and right now it's just hand tight. It shifts all the way to park just fine, so I don't know if that's related or just coincidental.

Any ideas you guys have on where to begin troubleshooting this would be greatly appreciated. I'm looking to sell the truck, but can't very well do that when it has this issue. Thanks in advance!

Farns

The first thing I would check is the shift linkage to see if it may be loose somewhere. if it all seems tight, look at the MLP (neutral safety switch) on the side of the transmission.

ok, thank you for those ideas, can I trouble you for some more detail on how to do those things? I'm not sure what a neutral safety switch is, and on that linkage, would there be more than the one connection that I already addressed? Is there a place I can see some photos or diagrams of these two elements? Thanks!

Farns

Is the shifting lever tight or is it a little sloppy or loose feeling? If it is loose feeling, look under the dash to see where the shift cable hooks to the bottom of the shifter mechanism. There are 2 little T10 torx bolts there. See if they are tight. The neutral safety switch is located on the drivers side of the transmission. Jack vehicle up and place it on jack stands. have someone move the shifter through the gears while you look under the truck. You will see the cable moving a bracket. The thing behind the bracket is the MLP (neutral safety switch).

Thank you for the pic on that. Yes, one of the bolts was loose, it had fallen out several months ago, just vibrated loose I guess. I can't remember if I mentioned that in my original post or not. Anyhow, I did climb under there and check last night, and sure enough, the one that had fallen out before, was really loose. I had just put it in finger tight last time, to get the shifter to work again. I got the right bit and cranked it down nice and tight. made sure both were good. the shifting feels nice and solid now, but it still won't start.

I indentified the NSS last night too, and tonight when I get home I'll have my wife shift the gears while I observe the switch moving. Think maybe it's not getting all the way to the "home" position?

I've been running the conversation also on a F150 specific forum elsewhere, and the guys there gave me the following advice:

On the firewall, passenger side, you should find the starter motor relay switch. 2 large terminals and one small one. Next time the truck doesn't start Short the small terminal to power and the truck should start. Make damned sure the truck is in Park. http://www.f150forum.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I suspect that the DTRS is not properly adjusted and at times doersn't properly indicate P or N.
But I"m not sure exactly what they are talking about, or now to short a terminal out. What are your thoughts on this procedure?

That will rule out the starter solenoid. That is the device directs current to the starter motor to make it work. Jump the little connection to the battery side of the solenoid (relay) and see if the starter will work. If it does, replace the solenoid. It is in the box on the top left of the picture.

That started it right up! Wow. So that means the starter solonoid is bad then? Is it difficult to replace? I called autozone and they've got one for $12. I'm gonna head down there tomorrow and pick one up I guess!

Justy maakre sure it has the same terminal configuration. It just unbolts from the body. Be careful because on side will spark badly if it touches metal.

Quick update! Put in a new $12 solonoid/relay thingy on Saturday and it fired right up! So now we just need to get it licensed and drive it around a bit to make sure it works for reals. But I'm going to carry a screwdriver with me at all times to hot wire it if needed down the road LOL. thanks for all your help guys, I'm not going to consider this case closed just yet, need to make sure it's really fixed and legit. But thank you for all your help through this!!

Farns

Thank you for the "partial fix" post. Keep us informed

Yahoo!! Drove my truck to work for the first time since AUGUST! I got it re-licensed today, and it felt great to get back behind the wheel.

When I got to work, and pulled the key out, it still stuck like it has been doing forever. I mean, the cylinder doesn't turn all the way it catches about 90% of the way when you're turning the key off to remove it. So there's of course still a completely unrelated issue there that I need to keep looking at. But just for kicks, I tried to start it again just to make sure it would start, and I got a horrible grinding noise, but not sure from where. Didn't sound like from the starter, sounded much closer to me than the starter is. But I tried it again and fired just fine. So I"ll have to keep an eye out for that one!

So far so good tho!