It Happened Again!

First my wife's 2005 Corolla, now my '08 Kia. Both came back from an alignment shop I've used for 6 years with steering wheels more crooked than when I brought them there! The Corolla thing happened in '08. That was its first alignment since my wife bought it used in mid-05.

In my case, the Kia exhibits no pull except when the road crown is severe enough, but the steering wheel, previously "leaning" towards 12:30, now leans toward 1:30! I nearly pulled the car into oncoming traffic twice since leaving the shop to visit my aunt!

How can cars leave an alignment rack with crooked steering wheels? Don't techs know that a TEST DRIVE will tell them more about where things are than numbers or arrows on a monitor screen?

Anwho they will take it back tomorrow and *hopefully* get the toe correct so my my steering wheel is where my hands will expect it to be when my eyes are on the road.

An off-center wheel does not always indicate an alignment problem. Alignment specs can be spot-on, but the wheel still needs centering. In such cases, a minor adjustment of the tie rod ends will do the trick.

Personally, I have always asked the alignment guy to center the wheel when needed. I don't assume they will just do it(even though they should).

A proprly performed 4 wheel thrust angle alignment will always get the wheel straight, a simple centerline will not.

A proprly performed 4 wheel thrust angle alignment will always get the wheel straight, a simple centerline will not.


Unfortunately this shop seems to feel that centering toe within the specified range at all four corners is sufficient.

I also found out that my front left camber is about -1/2 degree out of range(0 > -1deg). The Caster for both front wheels is a hair more positive(toward the minimum end of the range).

I did drive up on a median about a year ago with that front left - about 30mph - enough to have to replace the RIM along with blowing the front left tire. That might explain the excessive neg. camber which a body shop will probably have to either replace parts or "pull out". Could the impact at this corner have bent something, affecting the ability to achieve a straight steering wheel via the toe/rod adjustment??

Question: Can a body shop "pull out" a skooch more caster while they're at it? Range on 2007+ Kia optimas is +4.3>+5.3. Mine is about +4.6. I want to get it maxed out, or maybe around +5deg.

I'm already comfortable going 70-80 in this car(not all the time!) but was white-knuckled at anything over 50mph in the 2005 Malibu I thankfully no longer drive. :)

.5 degrees will not make any difference, there really is no way to without altering the upper strut mounting area. I have never had an issue when doing a 4 wheel alignment using the the thrust angle to set the ft wheel toe/wheel center to the rear toe. This is std procedure on any vehicle with adjustable rear toe. Do not accept any less, they are full of BS if they make up some excuse for not doing this.

.5 degrees will not make any difference, there really is no way to without altering the upper stut mounting area.
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Which is something a bodyshop can do.

I have never had an issue when doing a 4 wheel alignment using the the thrust angle to set the ft wheel toe/wheel center to the rear toe. This is std procedure on any vehicle with adjustable rear toe. Do not accept any less, they are full of BS if they make up some excuse for not doing this.

Y'know Max - it completely escaped my mind to ask them if they did do thrust-angle. T-A is a fundamental of all wheel alignments! I have a stretch of days off after Christmas. I will see if they can do that if they didn't.

Make sure get a print out when they are done, this will list the the thrust angle and ft wheel set back if done correctly.

Make sure get a print out when they are done, this will list the the thrust angle and ft wheel set back if done correctly.

Would you believe this place?? They told me they never heard of handing the customer printouts when they came back to pick up their cars. Yet they used to give me one along with the invoice(I've been going to them since someone recommended them to me 6 years ago).

I made sure I got that print out the second time(Friday) which is the basis of our conversation.

Seriously though - I think at least I know what forces the different alignments(caster, camber, toe, SAI etc) do, not just that they need to be set inside a specified range. I know that side-to-side differences for some of them can lead to a car pulling left or right.

An excessively negative Right Front camber and an excessively negative Right Rear camber will not have the same force on the direction of the vehicle.
Having less positive caster on the right front will pull the car to the right, but it can be offset by excessively negative camber on the left rear. Do most alignment techs understand such dynamics? I seriously wonder.

Caster variations lt to rt are not as seriuos relative to pulling as camber is, .5 degrees caster cross variation usually will not cause a pull, camber more likely. Excess caster can cause high speed shimmy, I do not believe pushing the caster from plus 4.5 to 5.0 will do anything to improve the car.