Headers project has begun!

About 4-5 hours under my belt and the first side is fabbed up... Came out nice... But the hard side is left to do!


Ill post pics shortly

About 4-5 hours under my belt and the first side is fabbed up... Came out nice... But the hard side is left to do!


Ill post pics shortly

Eric, what diameter and length primaries are you using? Are you staying dual system or converting to single system?

Kel.

Eric, what diameter and length primaries are you using? Are you staying dual system or converting to single system?

Kel.

1-3/4" primaries

i tried to get each one @ 31" but they range @ 28"-31"

Still has to be a LOT better than what I have now!

A few pics...

http://www.extremespeedonline.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=109196&g2_serialNumber=2

http://www.extremespeedonline.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=109192&g2_serialNumber=2

http://www.extremespeedonline.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=109199&g2_serialNumber=2

1-3/4" primaries

i tried to get each one @ 31" but they range @ 28"-31"

Still has to be a LOT better than what I have now!

A few pics...



Lookin good Eric. You will have fun getting to some of those welds.........!!

I have started to think less now about equal length and more about equal flow. I.e if you have a pipe that has tighter turns in it that will slow down the gas flow, then it is OK for that pipe to be a bit shorter as the gas flow time will be same as a slightly longer but straighter pipe. Equal length does not = tuned length.

I may be making up another set of primaries at some stage for the 369 as I will be stretching my current set a little far and sacrificing some hp as I will most likely be running a long duration solid roller cam. My primaries are 36" so great for building torque in a 5.0 or 347 engine (pipes ran 335 and 390rwhp on these engines with torque approx the same numbers).

A run on the dyno will tell and if we dont hit the power numbers that we are expecting I will offer the current headers up for sale. Anyone with a 5.0 or 347 powered car interested?

Kel.

Thanks kel, they should do the trick I hope, we'll see

As for the welds. I plan to take each tube off(just tacked to the flange stubs, weld each tube seperatley and then reaassemble.. Should make for a much easier time!

Lookin good Eric. You will have fun getting to some of those welds.........!!

I have started to think less now about equal length and more about equal flow. I.e if you have a pipe that has tighter turns in it that will slow down the gas flow, then it is OK for that pipe to be a bit shorter as the gas flow time will be same as a slightly longer but straighter pipe. Equal length does not = tuned length.

I may be making up another set of primaries at some stage for the 369 as I will be stretching my current set a little far and sacrificing some hp as I will most likely be running a long duration solid roller cam. My primaries are 36" so great for building torque in a 5.0 or 347 engine (pipes ran 335 and 390rwhp on these engines with torque approx the same numbers).

A run on the dyno will tell and if we dont hit the power numbers that we are expecting I will offer the current headers up for sale. Anyone with a 5.0 or 347 powered car interested?

Kel.

Kel,
If you are interested in selling your original 8 into 1 headers, I'm very interested. [email protected]

Mike

Kel,
If you are interested in selling your original 8 into 1 headers, I'm very interested. [email protected]

Mike

What, no comments about my headers? Sheeesh! Lol

Kel,
If you are interested in selling your original 8 into 1 headers, I'm very interested. [email protected]

Mike

Hi Mike, I wont be back in NZ working on the car again until late Jan 11. I have to get the 369 together aand then on the dyno to determine if the current headers will suit the bigger and angrier engine. If shorter primaries are required to extract the best from the 369 I would rather sell the original set rather than "hack them up" to suit the new engine. The headers have been thermal coated so if I do any cutting and welding this coating will be destroyed and it is $400 to recoat them.

I will keep you posted on progress Mike and whether the headers will be up for sale. Thanks for the interest.

Kel.

Eric
Headers are looking good. I feel your pain having made my own 4 tube headers, fun but a lot of work. But the look cool and lets hope work great when finished.

Looks very familiar. I built a set of headers for my series car last winter. Set it up with 32" primaries. Getting the length to within 1/2" +- is a pain. I would recommend you fit the collector and stitch weld the joints so they won't move. You'll have to remove the pipes to weld them. If you don't have a strong enough weld when you fit up, the pipes will move. I painted the pipes and collector while off the car. Assembled the pipes and collector on the car and welded the collector & pipes. I also installed header wrap, makes a big difference for in car heat. Good luck

bruce

:cheers::1:
Looking great Eric! let me know when you want help, I am bored..

Kel,
No problem with the wait, I am in the process of renewing and upgrading my motor- a winter project.

Eric,
Your headers are way cool (like all of your mods). I forgot to give them some love because they just don't fit my SBF!

Once you get them built, you ought to build some fixtures and make them for sale. I have this feeling there is going to be a growing market for the LS conversion!

If you run into any issues on welding the tubes, you might want to consider individual cylinder flanges (just cut them) and slip fit collectors. Would also make doing the fixtures easier. Are you going out both sides of the car or out the passenger side with your system?

Mike

Better coat those headers. It will get hotter than you think. You will also have to worry abou the sound. I bust the sound at Road Atlanta every time I run SCCA @ 106. I am running 3" pipes out the side. I would suggest trying to send the pipes out the right side. Gary Jones has the right idea I just have the money to do it right now. I must say that it will help the car a lot.

Thanks guys, I do plan to coat them and also header wrap them to help with heat...

The heads are going out Going to go out each side like before. Not going to try and takle that project!

Already working on. Jig to replicate, Devin is already bugging me to make another set and I haven't Sven finished the first set yet. Lol

Speedway makes a 4 into 1 collector that incorporates 4~5 inch inlet pipes that lets you just slip the inlet pips over your header end tubes, making the 4 into 1 collector welding and slick install. I did that on my headers and it helped fixture the collector end of the headers.

Thanks guys, I do plan to coat them and also header wrap them to help with heat...

The heads are going out Going to go out each side like before. Not going to try and takle that project!

Already working on. Jig to replicate, Devin is already bugging me to make another set and I haven't Sven finished the first set yet. Lol

Eric, I had my headers, secondary pipes and secondary collector coated. Coating cuts back radiated heat quite a bit but the engine bay is still naturally hot. This has not caused any probs for me even with running 6 hours continuous.

You can use header wrap as well over the coated pipes but I suspect that you will find this will void any warranty on the coating system and is likely to discolour and mark the coating (and may even cause the coating to flake off). I have only used header wrap at the start of 1 primary (to protect power steer pump line from heat) and also the whole secondary pipe that goes across the top of the bellhousing in my setup.

I have also found header wrap quite expensive, particularly if you use it in areas where you need to take it off to disassemble the exhaust system if you are removing the engine. The header wrap gets brittle and comes apart when you remove it necessitating replacement at each engine refitment.

Another thing to consider before you get to start up stage is how long you run the engine with the system fitted prior to getting it coated. For the coating system I used, they preferred to have had the headers fitted and run but not for long and to have them after that ASAP.

Kel.

Thanks guys, I do plan to coat them and also header wrap them to help with heat...

The heads are going out Going to go out each side like before. Not going to try and takle that project!

Already working on. Jig to replicate, Devin is already bugging me to make another set and I haven't Sven finished the first set yet. Lol

I read this a few times, wondering what the hell it was you are trying to spit out....maybe, put the drink down and clear your thoughts... or .. come over when Alexandra's doing her spelling homework and I can help you out too.!!

Bugging - hell yea, since the piping will be here tomorrow, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Devin

I think somebody tried the 351W headers from Panoz and they worked fine on the GTRA even though the deck height is different. Bolt pattern and exhaust ports are the same. Might have to tweak the exhaust bracket a little. The trouble with the PAD headers is they are about $1000. As far as I know the header project didn't happen. If it had been done in a batch I thought it could have been done for less than $1000 a set. Maybe everyone just got the PAD version.

Mike

I think somebody tried the 351W headers from Panoz and they worked fine on the GTRA even though the deck height is different. Bolt pattern and exhaust ports are the same. Might have to tweak the exhaust bracket a little. The trouble with the PAD headers is they are about $1000. As far as I know the header project didn't happen. If it had been done in a batch I thought it could have been done for less than $1000 a set. Maybe everyone just got the PAD version.

Mike
Mike, called PAD and they don't keep or have them (headers) said moved to slow to keep..sold only one set last year. Josh gave me the number of Headman in GA, they acted like it was history but will check, said PAD was supposed to buy 10 at a time, but had not lived up to their side. Still trying to see if they will make them.??? need a set ..Bill

Some pics pics... i got the passenger side all fab'd up... much more "exciting" lol

Looks like a water slide, but I was able to match the tube length on the drivers side pretty close!

http://www.extremespeedonline.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=109220&g2_serialNumber=2

http://www.extremespeedonline.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=109217&g2_serialNumber=2

http://www.extremespeedonline.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=109214&g2_serialNumber=3

http://www.extremespeedonline.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=109208&g2_serialNumber=2

Still need to add a little more length to the runners and then add the collector, but it fits pretty well, but I had to remove the oil filter in order to squeeze them out.

Sweet :)

The Hedman/Pad headers were not equal length, no attempt to get them even close. They just welded long tubes pretty much straight to the side through the upper and lower frame tubes and slapped a collector. My bet is that Hedman has a fixture and tube patterns. They were worth about half of what they cost which explains why they didn't sell. The way Eric is doing his is the best way to really pick up some flow and evacuation.

With the Hedman's no longer a player, maybe someone will fab a set of equal lengths and actually make fixtures for production and sell about 10 sets. I know I'd be interested. When Cobra Fang (Tom) did his, patterned after Kel's 8 into 1 design; it cost him a mint because it was a one-off and done by a super fabricator, not a full time header professional. No fixture was made so set number 2 will cost just as much as the prototype. Opportunity missed in my opinion.

If you find a reasonable solution, let us know. My shorties are really not up to supporting any hp increases.

Mike

The Hedman/Pad headers were not equal length, no attempt to get them even close. They just welded long tubes pretty much straight to the side through the upper and lower frame tubes and slapped a collector. My bet is that Hedman has a fixture and tube patterns. They were worth about half of what they cost which explains why they didn't sell. The way Eric is doing his is the best way to really pick up some flow and evacuation.

With the Hedman's no longer a player, maybe someone will fab a set of equal lengths and actually make fixtures for production and sell about 10 sets. I know I'd be interested. When Cobra Fang (Tom) did his, patterned after Kel's 8 into 1 design; it cost him a mint because it was a one-off and done by a super fabricator, not a full time header professional. No fixture was made so set number 2 will cost just as much as the prototype. Opportunity missed in my opinion.

If you find a reasonable solution, let us know. My shorties are really not up to supporting any hp increases.

Mike

If I can get my hands on a RA car I might be able to mock up s set and make a jig for it if there is enough interest

Not sure I can make them in bulk , I could probably get 4-5 sets out i initially,,,,

What woulda reasonable price for a custom designed headers? To see if its worth my while.....?

Eric,
If I can not get Kel's old set in February or shortly thereafter, I'd be a buyer. When Tom and I were trying to get a few sets (about 5) to sell, we had in mind a target price of $1000 per set in bare metal, figuring on the coating and the rest of the exhaust taking another $700 or so. Now this was for the 8 into 1 system out the passenger side. I'd think the header fab would be about the same for equal lengths out both sides with the ability to use most of the original exhaust if desired. Anyone with a stroker or even a hopped up 302 needs these to get anything like the potential power available. Relocating the oil filter a la the GTS is no big deal. My fall back position is out both sides like you are doing, but there is significant advantage in going out the passenger side and getting an X pipe in there. Not to mention cockpit heat and noise. Either way it would be a big step up.

Mike