98 GTP VS. 95 Thunderbird Supercoupe

Out of the two, who do you think would win in a race??? I put my money on the GTP.

gtP fo shO...........

Yes, GTP. Its lighter than the Thunderbird SC and has 25 more HP. Thunderbird might get it on the start, but not by very much.

Didnt the thunderchickens have 4 bangers w/ turbos?

They had a turbo coupe about '86-'89, which was a 2.4L 16V four with a larger blower on it. Then in '90 (I think) to '95 they made the SuperCoupe which was a supercharged 3.8L V6 producing about 210hp.

larger blower
I thought it was a turbo charger?

I have to make a correction, it is a 91 Supercoupe, not a 95.

GTP can still beat a SC

Hmmmmmm.... this is a much tougher question than you think boys. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Grand Prix's and have had the fortune to run into the ground a '95 Green GP GT (3.4 DOHC V6-WHAT a pig on gas!), a '98 Red GP GTP (3.8 SUPER), and currently an '01 black GP GTP (no performance shift anymore though :frown: ).

Lets compare numbers first:

A 2001 GTP weighs in at roughly 3555 lbs(1610 kgs), produces 240 HP @ 5200 RPM and 280 ft/lbs of TQ @ 3600 RPM. 4 speed auto is the only available tranny.

A 1995 T-Bird SC weighed 1678 kgs (sorry don't have the Imperial conversion but about 170 lbs more), produced 230 HP @ 4400 RPM and a whopping 330 ft/lbs of TQ @ an incredibly low 2500 RPM!! The SC was available with a 5 speed manual tranny.

Granted, these numbers for the SC were for the 1995 model and earlier models had less HP and mostly came with the 4 speed auto - but one thing I remember was that Ford ALWAYS got well over 300 ft/lbs out of their 3.8L Supercharged engine.

The biggest advantage the SC has is its rear wheel drive chassis. THose T-Birds have the frame and setup to handle much more HP and TQ from modifications, whereas the GTP's become at some point limited by their FWD setup (for drag racing anyways). Trust me, I had to give props to one SC a while ago that stayed with my Z28 all the way to 180 Kph from a standstill.

Just some food for thought. I think against most of the older SC's you could run into, a newer GTP would take it in a long enough race (1/4 mile) or on the highway, but just be wery of some of those really clean and well kept Super Coupe's - it might be one of those late models (and you'd have no way of knowing).


EDIT: 2001 GTP 2-door weighs 3495 lbs (1580 Kgs)

The Grand Prix GTP weighs 3383 (2 door). The 95 SC weighs 3724 manual.

Originally posted by Scott 02

I thought it was a turbo charger?


When I said "larger blower" I meant a bigger-than-usual turbocharger.

Blower implies that it is a supercharger, from my understanding.

Blower implies that it is a supercharger, from my understanding.
agree. :wink:

No kidding? Damn, I thought they both blew; so to speak...:lol:

:loser: <---ipec. JK man, nice sence of humor

Having owned both of these fine vehicles (1997 grand prix gtp and 1989 t-bird supercoupe), I can tell you from experience that the T-bird has more power hands down. After selling my T-bird (biggest mistake of my life), I purchased the GTP because I wanted the same feeling that I got with my Supercoupe. I was very disappointed. It's not that the GTP isn't a wonderful car but it does not have the same feel in comfort, handling, sound and especially power. The Supercoupe was one of the greatest cars ever made in my humble opinion and I am pining for another one to this day......so if you see a good 1992 to 1995 model, please call me or write me as soon as possible as I will probably just buy the thing outright if the price is right and the car is in good shape!!!

Carey Hodsden
(757)-685-8115

It seems that the GP's have more aftermarket than the SC, but I've never really looked into it. I just know that my cam'd GP has walked all over every SC that I've raced. I've never run into a heavily modded SC were as every time I go to the track with the GP club there are atleast 2 heavy hitters

Attended a club clash GP vs. SC and the GPs were deffenetly faster, only thing that evened it out was that we were bracket racing

Woa I just had to reply to this. Up to and including the 93 model years the SC's had 210 hp and 315 ft-lbs of torque, with a 0-60 time of about 7.5 seconds. The 94-95 model years had 230 hp and 330 ft-lbs of torque which brought the 0-60 time down into the bottom 7 to upper 6 second range. Now how in the world can someone say the GTP can beat a SC when it does 0-60 in the upper 8's?? True the SC is a little bit heavier, but they have the option of a 5-speed and a ton more torque than the GM V-6. Too bad that Ford execs(morons) decided to axe with SC after 95, I'm sure they could have squeezed even more juice out of her!!!!

My opinion on this comes from seeing real world examples, not what a mag. says the 0-60 was/is/or should be.

Like I said, I've never seen a sub 13 SC. Now, I'm not saying that they dont exist, and I'm not going to go searching through the forums to find one. I'm just saying that the aftermarket seems greater for the GP than the SC.

Im not sure what a SC weighs but the last time I scaled my car it came out to 3700lbs with driver, and that's track prepped. Manual vs. Automatic debate, I think that I'll stick to my auto with reprogrammed shift points. I've never missed a shift and lost a race because of it.

I cant say how a stock vs. stock race would go, because I've never seen it, and I refuse to go by some mags numbers.

If anyone is located in Texas (DFW area) that owns a SC or is in a SC club lets get together and go race. I'll get some North Texas GP guys to go and we'll make it a friendly day at the track.

This is how some of us GP guys settled the debate between the Acura CL guys. They wouldnt believe that the GPs would walk all over them so the 2 clubs went racing.

Tim

what about the v8 thunderbirds my budy brian had a newer thunderbird mid 90s and it had a v8 it was pretty fast but huge car, sounded awsome

see you people dont understand 50viperman wants to know what will beat what not how many mods are out there and of course a camed gtp will beat a stock sc and if you havent seen any faster than you sc's then your not lookin to realy race! i have seen and participated in a few sc v. gtp races (stock) and the sc's have won......those of you that dont take care of your car (in general) dont count and dont matter.

Supercoups rule!! go to www.sccoa.com and check out the modded SC's. Id take one over a GTP anyday. Id personally never own a front wheel drive car, let alone race one. I owned a SC before my Z and it was the shiznit!!

i love thunderbirds and GTP's i have a 91 thunderbird sc 5spdand my friend has a 2001 GTP we raced many times and some times i would get him others he would get me they are a close race i have the torque on him he has more hp the winner is dependent on how long the race is

I drove my buds 5 speed Supercoupe, and I must say it was a hard torqueing SOB.. But then, so is my GTP.. I think the SC pulled a tad bit harder though..

What people are forgetting is that the SuperCoupe is intercooled.. I think that is where their higher torque and power ratings come from.. His car had a air to water intercooler in the intake manifold, under the supercharger.. It was plumbed into a small radiator, that sat beside the main one that cooled the engine..

Intercoolers on blowers can make BIG power.. By not only letting the engine ingest cooler, denser air.. But the main thing is they allow more ignition timing.. A couple of degrees more timing on a blown motor, can add 20 hp "right now"..

[QUOTE=GTPJeff]His car had a air to water intercooler in the intake manifold, under the supercharger.. It was plumbed into a small radiator, that sat beside the main one that cooled the engine..
QUOTE=GTPJeff]

Actually they have an air to air intercooler. That isnt a small radiator, its an air to air intercooler. The Lightnings have an air to water intercooler.

if what DVS LT1 information is correct then the TBird would do on the start because of higher torque at lower rpms. But I bet that the GTP after the start will smoke the TBird. And no way the TBird would take on the GTP on a rolling start...

[QUOTE=GTPJeff]His car had a air to water intercooler in the intake manifold, under the supercharger.. It was plumbed into a small radiator, that sat beside the main one that cooled the engine..
QUOTE=GTPJeff]

Actually they have an air to air intercooler. That isnt a small radiator, its an air to air intercooler. The Lightnings have an air to water intercooler.

I believe the turbo motors were air to air intercooled.. But the 3.8's, have their Eaton blower sitting on top of the motor.. This one looked like it's air to water..

I believe the turbo motors were air to air intercooled.. But the 3.8's, have their Eaton blower sitting on top of the motor.. This one looked like it's air to water..


Its just the roots style blower. I owned one for quite a while, their air to air.

I've not seen a raced between the two yet, but i still think the grand prix!

Its just the roots style blower. I owned one for quite a while, their air to air.

Yeah, I believe you're right.. I wish so much that my GTP had an intercooler.. They are tremendous power adders for a blown car..

For you nay-sayers that don't think Supercoupes can be made to run.. Check this one out..Scroll to the bottom of the page to see his quarter mile times..

http://www.sccoa.com/member/index.php?uniquename=neibert

your gtp is not turbo charged. So why would you want to put an inner cooler in?

your gtp is not turbo charged. So why would you want to put an inner cooler in?

So that my 3.8 litre Eaton supercharged motor can put out 330 ft lbs of torque, just like the T-birds 3.8 litre Eaton supercharged motor does..

With an intercooler, a Grand Prix could run 12 to 14 lbs of boost on pump gas with the same timing.. You can imagine what that would do..

Check out supercharged intercooling at the link below..

http://www.procharger.com/tech.shtml

Do both GTP and Supercoupe have the Eaton M90 then? If so..thats news to me and i might have to look into buying an innercooler.

Not totally sure.

There are 3 intercoolers for the GP's right now, with more coming out soon. Including a AC IC from the IL club. Like what the new Ford L's have

http://www.zzperformance.com/zzp/products/intercooler.htm

http://www.3800performance.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=3800P&Product_Code=MAP-IC-SYSTEM&Category_Code=EC

http://www.thrashercharged.com/store_htm/intercooler-fuel_group.shtm

Bottom line, the more cool air enters the combustion chamber per charge cycle mpre power/effiiciency you will get from your engine

Thanks Ripper for those intercooler links.. That is going to be one of the first mods I ever make.. Before a pulley change, before even a cold air intake, I'd get an intercooler first..

When I had a twinscrew supercharger on my Mustang.. If you keep the boost at 6 lbs or less, it was like driving a high torque stocker.. But once you started to up the boost with pulley changes, then the "issues" started to surface.. Mainly increased heat, and excessive timing retard.. But once you changed pullies, the torque and power just got rediculous..
It was hard to go back and give that up, just for the sake of better drivability :disappoin ... They say with an intercooler, you can have your cake and eat it too..

okay people turbo coupes where from i belive 82-84 up till 1988. different variations of turbos from t3s to ihi's. but whatever the sc came out in 1989 and i believe they stoped making the 5speed supercoupes in 1993 not sure about that one..haven't seen any 94-95 5 speeds..not saying there not out there. just saying i haven't seen them.

which 1 of you goof offs said the gtps 0-60 was 8secs? my 04 is said to 6.6 and ive actually did 6.3 on my g-tech now you cant tell me that my 20 more ponies(260vs240) and same torque rating(280) as the older 1s that it is worth 1.4 seconds. I wish you people would get your facts straight before you post numbers that are ignorant.

I wish people would stop racing numbers and just race the damn cars.

Too many mag. racers here.

that is a laugh. To many mag racers LOL

Out of the two, who do you think would win in a race??? I put my money on the GTP.

I know the 95s are alittle more powerful than the older models, but i raced a stock white 98 gtp with a stock pulley and all against a 91 anniversary with minor mods, exhuast and 255 goodyear gs-c tires, thing had tons of torque but not a whole lotta power for its weight, had it by about a car in 1st gear and a little over 2 cars by 100mph, i couldnt imagine my 99 gtp now with its mods how unclose a race with one would be....their just tooheavy i think.

Thread Ressurection!


The biggest barrier with both the Thunderbird and the GTP is the blower. The M90's will only boost so much before their efficiency goes to hell, and they start cooking from the heat they generate.

Wait will the guys developing the 2.3L Lysholm blower finish it.

On a recent dyno run one car pulled 503Ft. Lbs and 447HP. And that was without much tuning.

Sub 13 second cars? Try Sub 10. :D

Only drawback to the lysholm blower is that the thing is LOUD, even at idle. Now, that may not be a drawback to some, but when you wanna run a sleeper, that whine will give you away everytime.

The ORIG. Dig. Oxy (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=75484): It's not always a great idea to ressurrect old threads, Usually, you make a new thread. You could have started one about the differences in the Lhysolm and Eaton blowers.

My apologies. The boards I am usually on frown upon starting new threads. Won't happen again.

These forums are a bit friendlier ;)

Just a little food for thought.. I've been lined up witha 2003 GTP supercharged, and I have a 1990 t-bird SC 5 speed. Modifications to the GTP is catback exhaust. modifications to my t-bird is an overpulley on the supercharger, flowmaster exhaust, rear-end gearing is now 3.73, and I've done several thousand dollars to the tranny. ..engine is stock for the msot part.

We were neck and neck off the line, and I started pulling at about 80 mph. The GTP never did catch back up w/me..

The GTP had fewer mods. Add a 3.5 inch pulley on the GTP's SC and it would have beaten you

I'm with the tdude, and I own a moded Tbird SC.

I raced one of those super coupes in my 97 gtp. Both he and are were relatively stock. The super coupe was quick, but i still won, but not by much. In fact i alsmost lost (but i did have my 300 lb friend in the car with me and he was alone)

The one thing nice about the T bird, when it dies, you can always cut off the roof and plant flowers in it. Then they look good.

I own a 95 T-bird SC 5 sp. (only 574 made, btw) and I have race several GTPs and have never lost. The only things I have done to it are removed the air silencer, and a supercharger pulley ...so it's almost bone stock.

I own a 95 T-bird SC 5 sp. (only 574 made, btw) and I have race several GTPs and have never lost. The only things I have done to it are removed the air silencer, and a supercharger pulley ...so it's almost bone stock.


wanna race?

I own a 95 T-bird SC 5 sp. (only 574 made, btw) and I have race several GTPs and have never lost. The only things I have done to it are removed the air silencer, and a supercharger pulley ...so it's almost bone stock.
Welcome to automotive forums but please don't bring back old threads and I love when people say I only added a supercharger pulley to my car and I never lost. A supercharged vehicle changing a pulley is not a insignificant mod and one that if switched would have meant your loss in all of the races, Although a friend of mine has a 95 SC and it is a quick car I must admit but the GTP is a all around better performance car IMO, Handling/braking/acceleration wise.

back on the second page dodgeMANinjapan asked if the V8 would beat a GTP. I owned a 1992 Ford Thunderbird with a 5.0 H.O. V8. It had power but the GTP is much quicker. I raced the Thunderbird with my GP GT and beat it by more then a car length so I know the GTP will whope up on it.

I don't know what you've been smokin', I currently own a Midnight Black
1995 Supercoupe, custom 6 speed. I spent almost $65000 dollars bringing the Motor, Tranny, and everything else in between to the sub-10 second range. The 3.8 motor has been stroked to 4.3 and according to the dyno sheets(dyno tune done at Alamo Performance in San Antonio, Texas) she puts 947.3 HP to the rear wheels and 1102.8 Ft Lbs of torque. My last time slip was 9.83 @ 162 MPH and I still couldn't hook it to the ground( 0.8 sec 60 ft time). What is sick is I can drive it back and forth to work. She runs 38 lbs of boost at the track, but...well I can't give away all of my secrets. I'll say this, you want proof, come to San Antonio Raceway Park on Dec. 4, which is this Saturday. I cracked my 9.83 at Houston Raceway Park. I figure with the colder air this coming up weekend, I'll be able to bust that, if she'll hook. :evillol:

I don't know what you've been smokin', I currently own a Midnight Black
1995 Supercoupe, custom 6 speed. I spent almost $65000 dollars bringing the Motor, Tranny, and everything else in between to the sub-10 second range. The 3.8 motor has been stroked to 4.3 and according to the dyno sheets(dyno tune done at Alamo Performance in San Antonio, Texas) she puts 947.3 HP to the rear wheels and 1102.8 Ft Lbs of torque. My last time slip was 9.83 @ 162 MPH and I still couldn't hook it to the ground( 0.8 sec 60 ft time). What is sick is I can drive it back and forth to work. She runs 38 lbs of boost at the track, but...well I can't give away all of my secrets. I'll say this, you want proof, come to San Antonio Raceway Park on Dec. 4, which is this Saturday. I cracked my 9.83 at Houston Raceway Park. I figure with the colder air this coming up weekend, I'll be able to bust that, if she'll hook. :evillol:

**75% of work done at Coy Miller Racing and the remaining 25% at SHM**

I don't know what you've been smokin', I currently own a Midnight Black
1995 Supercoupe, custom 6 speed. I spent almost $65000 dollars bringing the Motor, Tranny, and everything else in between to the sub-10 second range. The 3.8 motor has been stroked to 4.3 and according to the dyno sheets(dyno tune done at Alamo Performance in San Antonio, Texas) she puts 947.3 HP to the rear wheels and 1102.8 Ft Lbs of torque. My last time slip was 9.83 @ 162 MPH and I still couldn't hook it to the ground( 0.8 sec 60 ft time). What is sick is I can drive it back and forth to work. She runs 38 lbs of boost at the track, but...well I can't give away all of my secrets. I'll say this, you want proof, come to San Antonio Raceway Park on Dec. 4, which is this Saturday. I cracked my 9.83 at Houston Raceway Park. I figure with the colder air this coming up weekend, I'll be able to bust that, if she'll hook. :evillol:
You said you put $65,000.00 into a T-Bird. I think you bought the wrong car. But let's say it's $6,500.00. You made two mistakes. The first was by buying the car you have. The other was to think your car is fast.
If you put $6,500.00 onto a GTP it would still blow you away.
Now let's get the dust off this oldie and put it to an end.
Enjoy your car. We'll enjoy ours.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/kustomkid54/kickintheass.gif

I dont know what your smoking "9secSC" first off you spent way to much money on that car those cars are so heavy and for the motors they have they are slow. if you would have read the question the guy was asking about a 5.0 V8 not a supercharged 3.8 like you have. I was answering the question for the V8 cause I owned one and the reason I sold it was for a 5.0 V8 it was pretty damn slow cause the weight in those suckers hold you back. also I know a man who has a 3.8 sc and he likes to show off he has a hard time turning the tires open on dry pavement so however much money you put into your car you should have bought a GTP and stuck your money into it cause it would have been a hell of alot faster and worth more then your $2500 doller car (KBB) that is if it is in MINT. So maybe you should think of getting off what your smoking.

all of you stfu. If you're going to bring back an old thread, make the arguments at least worthy of keeping the thread open. Arguing like children is pointless, stupid and immature. If you don't like a make of vehicle, stay out of that forum, and if some stupid fuck comes into a forum blowing all kinds of smoke up everyone's ass, get a mod to tell him to shut his mouth. Closed.