NEW GTHO Specs....
dc_todd
05-21-2003, 12:17 AM
BA XR6T = 240 kw
BA XR8 = 260 kw
BA GT = 290 kw
speculation over a GTHO posibly a super charged V8 up to 350 kw.
again only speculation.
BA XR8 = 260 kw
BA GT = 290 kw
speculation over a GTHO posibly a super charged V8 up to 350 kw.
again only speculation.
Jimster
05-21-2003, 04:26 AM
Awesome!!!! Perhaps that'll motivate HSV to offer the Supercharged GTS that the Poms get, in thier home market. But I'd still rather the Ford:D
Dima r33
05-24-2003, 09:40 AM
Accordind to Motor, A gtho will have a neat 500hp = 375kw supercharged version of current gt motor. Hope that dont meke it too heavy tho, thats where Ford always stuffs up with GT's.
92 gt 200kw 0-100: 7.7s
97 gt 200kw 0-100: 7.9s
03 gt 290kw 0-100: 5.9s (same as standard SS)
not good enough!!!
strip 100 kilos from gt and it will have same effect as 375kw about 5.4s.
and it will not be as understeery and handle heaps better and not as thirtsty.
in fact same should be done across entire BA range.
92 gt 200kw 0-100: 7.7s
97 gt 200kw 0-100: 7.9s
03 gt 290kw 0-100: 5.9s (same as standard SS)
not good enough!!!
strip 100 kilos from gt and it will have same effect as 375kw about 5.4s.
and it will not be as understeery and handle heaps better and not as thirtsty.
in fact same should be done across entire BA range.
blazed on haze :\
07-17-2003, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by Jimster
Awesome!!!! Perhaps that'll motivate HSV to offer the Supercharged GTS that the Poms get, in thier home market. But I'd still rather the Ford:D
the competition for the gtho is already made and peter brock races it against ferari's, porches, lambo's etc. a stock lookin monaro with a monster chev 427ci under the hood. i dont remeber the power figures but its damn fast and wins quite a few races.
i watched a race last night on tv, held on queensland raceway, the monaro 427 and a ferari f40 come out of a turn side by side and onto a long strip. before the next turn the monaro is almost 2 car lenghts ahead. beasts they are...
i still reckon ford is tops though. wouldnt mind seeing a gtho in race against one of these monaro's.
Awesome!!!! Perhaps that'll motivate HSV to offer the Supercharged GTS that the Poms get, in thier home market. But I'd still rather the Ford:D
the competition for the gtho is already made and peter brock races it against ferari's, porches, lambo's etc. a stock lookin monaro with a monster chev 427ci under the hood. i dont remeber the power figures but its damn fast and wins quite a few races.
i watched a race last night on tv, held on queensland raceway, the monaro 427 and a ferari f40 come out of a turn side by side and onto a long strip. before the next turn the monaro is almost 2 car lenghts ahead. beasts they are...
i still reckon ford is tops though. wouldnt mind seeing a gtho in race against one of these monaro's.
blazed on haze :\
07-17-2003, 11:06 PM
oh fuckin weak man...
CLAYTON-- Official Press Release, 26/06/03. 2pm AEST.
Holden Special Vehicles today announced that it would not go ahead with production of the HRT427 “Supercar”.
Fifty firm orders had been placed for the vehicle, with an unexpectedly high proportion to be for road use. HSV’s desire to build the car to the highest level of safety, engineering integrity and excellence to meet the expected asking price of $215,000 was not achievable at the (restricted) 50 vehicle build level.
To achieve a road car level of specification would have required significantly higher investment levels and resultant higher recommended retail price. Further, HSV was not prepared to build more than 50 units as this would seriously degrade the exclusivity of the very exciting 427 model, nor was HSV prepared to lower the specifications from that of the original show car intent, which may have diluted the integrity of the concept.
HSV expressed great disappointment in not bringing the 427 model to market, as the prototype vehicles that were completed had achieved their engineering objectives and vehicle intent. HSV’s General Manager, Chris Payne, confirmed “The unfortunate and disappointing decision was one purely of business case economics that could not be made viable given our price and customer studies.
“The decision is particularly disappointing as the prototypes already demonstrate the engineering prowess of HSV to develop and build high performance supercars that can compete with the best marques in the world” he added.
HSV will be in direct contact with the fifty customers who were scheduled to become owners of the 427.
“We have some other very exciting and interesting concepts coming down the track that will continue to shape HSV’s leadership in the Australian performance car segment” said Chris Payne.
CLAYTON-- Official Press Release, 26/06/03. 2pm AEST.
Holden Special Vehicles today announced that it would not go ahead with production of the HRT427 “Supercar”.
Fifty firm orders had been placed for the vehicle, with an unexpectedly high proportion to be for road use. HSV’s desire to build the car to the highest level of safety, engineering integrity and excellence to meet the expected asking price of $215,000 was not achievable at the (restricted) 50 vehicle build level.
To achieve a road car level of specification would have required significantly higher investment levels and resultant higher recommended retail price. Further, HSV was not prepared to build more than 50 units as this would seriously degrade the exclusivity of the very exciting 427 model, nor was HSV prepared to lower the specifications from that of the original show car intent, which may have diluted the integrity of the concept.
HSV expressed great disappointment in not bringing the 427 model to market, as the prototype vehicles that were completed had achieved their engineering objectives and vehicle intent. HSV’s General Manager, Chris Payne, confirmed “The unfortunate and disappointing decision was one purely of business case economics that could not be made viable given our price and customer studies.
“The decision is particularly disappointing as the prototypes already demonstrate the engineering prowess of HSV to develop and build high performance supercars that can compete with the best marques in the world” he added.
HSV will be in direct contact with the fifty customers who were scheduled to become owners of the 427.
“We have some other very exciting and interesting concepts coming down the track that will continue to shape HSV’s leadership in the Australian performance car segment” said Chris Payne.
XF 4.1L
11-05-2003, 04:12 AM
Hey, im a Ford fan til the day i die i swear!
but the problem is very few fords can compete with, as u said, a 427 7L beast. i recon that AVESCO should let the monaro 7L into the v8 supercar series cause then ford would have to make a reply to it...cause, I HATE TO SAY IT, but a 7L corvette engine would beat the shit out of an XR8. Then ford would have no option except a super falcon...
i can read the headlines now...
FORD VS HOLDEN,
350km/h dash down conrod...(ford the victor) well cya's later and if anyone does hear news about a GTHO, post it! =)
but the problem is very few fords can compete with, as u said, a 427 7L beast. i recon that AVESCO should let the monaro 7L into the v8 supercar series cause then ford would have to make a reply to it...cause, I HATE TO SAY IT, but a 7L corvette engine would beat the shit out of an XR8. Then ford would have no option except a super falcon...
i can read the headlines now...
FORD VS HOLDEN,
350km/h dash down conrod...(ford the victor) well cya's later and if anyone does hear news about a GTHO, post it! =)
FalconGTHO351
12-30-2003, 10:38 PM
Hey, im a Ford fan til the day i die i swear!
but the problem is very few fords can compete with, as u said, a 427 7L beast. i recon that AVESCO should let the monaro 7L into the v8 supercar series cause then ford would have to make a reply to it...cause, I HATE TO SAY IT, but a 7L corvette engine would beat the shit out of an XR8. Then ford would have no option except a super falcon...
i can read the headlines now...
FORD VS HOLDEN,
350km/h dash down conrod...(ford the victor) well cya's later and if anyone does hear news about a GTHO, post it! =)
Imagine a 429 cobra jet GTHO? the thing with those monaro's is that, as was previously stated, they're NOT a road car, and it's highly likely (much debate has been thrown over this) that they never were going to go ahead with them. isn't it funny how the GT makes a solid come-back as a full production model, yet h****n unveil their 427 at the same motor show? Ford should, as I said, bring out a 429 cobra jet in a lighter package, maybe a supercharger or 2 (ala Bill Cosby's AC cobra 429 with twin paxton superchargers), and aerodynamics to rival a GT40, or a Ferrari Enzo, go all out, spend a few million, blow the doors off the monaro like a Phase 3 GTHO blowing the doors off a vauxhaul viva/torana(Ton Of Rust And No Acceleration...
but the problem is very few fords can compete with, as u said, a 427 7L beast. i recon that AVESCO should let the monaro 7L into the v8 supercar series cause then ford would have to make a reply to it...cause, I HATE TO SAY IT, but a 7L corvette engine would beat the shit out of an XR8. Then ford would have no option except a super falcon...
i can read the headlines now...
FORD VS HOLDEN,
350km/h dash down conrod...(ford the victor) well cya's later and if anyone does hear news about a GTHO, post it! =)
Imagine a 429 cobra jet GTHO? the thing with those monaro's is that, as was previously stated, they're NOT a road car, and it's highly likely (much debate has been thrown over this) that they never were going to go ahead with them. isn't it funny how the GT makes a solid come-back as a full production model, yet h****n unveil their 427 at the same motor show? Ford should, as I said, bring out a 429 cobra jet in a lighter package, maybe a supercharger or 2 (ala Bill Cosby's AC cobra 429 with twin paxton superchargers), and aerodynamics to rival a GT40, or a Ferrari Enzo, go all out, spend a few million, blow the doors off the monaro like a Phase 3 GTHO blowing the doors off a vauxhaul viva/torana(Ton Of Rust And No Acceleration...
hutcho
01-14-2004, 07:38 AM
One thing I'll say in ford favour is at least thier new performance model actually use a modern tech in it with multi valve DOHC instead of grabing yet another 1960 somthing model push rod engine out of the shadows to make up for a lack of engine tech in thier present options like holden!! :screwy:
429 GTHO sounds good, how about they DOHC the old cammer engine that'd kick some doors in :smokin: :naughty:
429 GTHO sounds good, how about they DOHC the old cammer engine that'd kick some doors in :smokin: :naughty:
replicant_008
01-14-2004, 05:16 PM
The GM Gen III V8 was introduced in the late 90s as a replacement for the Chev small block. The GENIII/LS1 is actually an all alloy engine and has some fairly smart ancillaries and electronic control.
Yes it doesn't have DOHC per bank and the only cam is down in the block with pushrods actuating the valvetrain.
But to be honest, despite being OHV it actually quite a modern engine and in many ways outshines the current Ford V8 options in the Falcon. The SOHC and DOHC Ford V8's are based on truck engines (I think they use a Navigator cast iron block) and you'll find that the rev limit on the olde tech Gen III is actually higher than the either of the Fords. The Gen III has breathes better at high RPM, seems to have a better usable rev range and has better economy - and it was conceived as a passenger car engine rather than a cobbling together of some parts to make up an engine.
No US Ford passenger cars use the powerplants that the Barra V8 engines are based on as they come from the SUV area - the Mustang uses an unrelated 4.6 litre DOHC V8.
When it comes to small displacement 4 or 6's then the DOHC option makes sense but it comes at the cost of reduced low down torque but making up in overall power and higher rpm range. The other downsides are relative expense, complexity and deck height. The clearance of the Barra 260/290 engines is about 3 or 4mm in the engine bay because of the DOHC heads which is actually in breach of Ford's own engineering standards.
When you are looking at high displacement V8's torque is more relevant especially as the engine is less likely to be used at full throttle during everyday driving. Mercedes Benz have actually gone from DOHC back to SOHC on their V6/V8 powerplants and use supercharging to assist with supplying extra power.
As for 429/427 ci V8 Supercars @ 350 km/h - that's a testerone wet dream. The AVESCO rules limit the engines to 5 litre cast iron pushrod small blocks with a maximum rev range to limit the cost and maintain reliability of the class. The teams and AVESCO have no interest in going out on a limb with the engines or going too fast as it simply will cost the teams a fortune. AVESCO goes to some trouble to try and limit the increase in performance to keep the older cars close to the performance of the new cars to keep the resale value of the cars to the Konica class up.
AVESCO with Project Blueprint have even specified that the BA Falcon Supercar is the same size as the VY Commodore. As a result, almost every panel on a BA Supercar is about 98% of the size of a road car's as the Supercar is actually about 100 mm shorter. And the VY Commodore actually has an Falcon inspired A-Arm front end instead of the Road Car McStruts.
Yes it doesn't have DOHC per bank and the only cam is down in the block with pushrods actuating the valvetrain.
But to be honest, despite being OHV it actually quite a modern engine and in many ways outshines the current Ford V8 options in the Falcon. The SOHC and DOHC Ford V8's are based on truck engines (I think they use a Navigator cast iron block) and you'll find that the rev limit on the olde tech Gen III is actually higher than the either of the Fords. The Gen III has breathes better at high RPM, seems to have a better usable rev range and has better economy - and it was conceived as a passenger car engine rather than a cobbling together of some parts to make up an engine.
No US Ford passenger cars use the powerplants that the Barra V8 engines are based on as they come from the SUV area - the Mustang uses an unrelated 4.6 litre DOHC V8.
When it comes to small displacement 4 or 6's then the DOHC option makes sense but it comes at the cost of reduced low down torque but making up in overall power and higher rpm range. The other downsides are relative expense, complexity and deck height. The clearance of the Barra 260/290 engines is about 3 or 4mm in the engine bay because of the DOHC heads which is actually in breach of Ford's own engineering standards.
When you are looking at high displacement V8's torque is more relevant especially as the engine is less likely to be used at full throttle during everyday driving. Mercedes Benz have actually gone from DOHC back to SOHC on their V6/V8 powerplants and use supercharging to assist with supplying extra power.
As for 429/427 ci V8 Supercars @ 350 km/h - that's a testerone wet dream. The AVESCO rules limit the engines to 5 litre cast iron pushrod small blocks with a maximum rev range to limit the cost and maintain reliability of the class. The teams and AVESCO have no interest in going out on a limb with the engines or going too fast as it simply will cost the teams a fortune. AVESCO goes to some trouble to try and limit the increase in performance to keep the older cars close to the performance of the new cars to keep the resale value of the cars to the Konica class up.
AVESCO with Project Blueprint have even specified that the BA Falcon Supercar is the same size as the VY Commodore. As a result, almost every panel on a BA Supercar is about 98% of the size of a road car's as the Supercar is actually about 100 mm shorter. And the VY Commodore actually has an Falcon inspired A-Arm front end instead of the Road Car McStruts.
hutcho
01-14-2004, 06:05 PM
I realized the GenIII was alloy but its still really just the 1960's design cast in alloy. And the big blocks Justa dusted off 60's engine as well. External gatetry dosn't make the design any better!
As for tech vers low tech, I'd have to say I havn't driven a BA so I'm nieve to thier low down torque characteristics but for a car marketed for performance I belive its a good move. The GEN III percived ability to breath better at high rpm has probably got more to do with cam & intake design than the performance ability of the engine. Because as u pionted out to me old tech have a more drivable bottom end so ford have possably had to move a little towards a torquey set up. So I'd say a torquey mid range is a good drivable engine. Yes they are cast iron blocks which is a bit of a downer. They are larger dimention heads now. But from a performance piont of view when these engine start to become more rebily modified I think the new tech head designe will out perform any wieght savings offered by a alloy version of an old tech engine. Although the ford engine hasn't been around as long yet they definatly don't apear to have the reliabiliy issuses that surround the GENIII
As for tech vers low tech, I'd have to say I havn't driven a BA so I'm nieve to thier low down torque characteristics but for a car marketed for performance I belive its a good move. The GEN III percived ability to breath better at high rpm has probably got more to do with cam & intake design than the performance ability of the engine. Because as u pionted out to me old tech have a more drivable bottom end so ford have possably had to move a little towards a torquey set up. So I'd say a torquey mid range is a good drivable engine. Yes they are cast iron blocks which is a bit of a downer. They are larger dimention heads now. But from a performance piont of view when these engine start to become more rebily modified I think the new tech head designe will out perform any wieght savings offered by a alloy version of an old tech engine. Although the ford engine hasn't been around as long yet they definatly don't apear to have the reliabiliy issuses that surround the GENIII
hutcho
01-14-2004, 06:42 PM
I'd like to say too that I totaly agree with what u said about AVESCO & thier rulings.
I would per if the format (engine spec format) was left as it is for as long as possable. I think the 5.0lt push rod vers5.0lt push rod thing much better value than to start introducing such astranged engines as the GENIII vers ford BOSS. But I supose one day as the old 5.0lts drop off the options list it will have to happen one day.
I would per if the format (engine spec format) was left as it is for as long as possable. I think the 5.0lt push rod vers5.0lt push rod thing much better value than to start introducing such astranged engines as the GENIII vers ford BOSS. But I supose one day as the old 5.0lts drop off the options list it will have to happen one day.
syr74
01-15-2004, 09:38 PM
Replicant, being a Ford fan here in the US I can assure you that the Barra engines you refer too are anything but unrelated to the 4.6L in the Mustang. The 5.4L V-8 is nothing but a 4.6L with a taller block and more stroke...period.
Currently the 5.4L V-8 is only offered in the Ford GT supercar, but it will be offered in the Mustang in the near future. (A 5.4L DOHC Supercharged V-8 has already been announced by SVT as the next motor for the Mustang Cobra, just like in the current GT) It also appears to be very likely for Mercury Marauder duty in the future as well. The 5.4L DOHC has also been offered in the 2000 Cobra R Mustang as well.
The 5.4L in the Falcon is actually based on a Lincoln Navigator cast iron block. But, that is anything but a bad thing. Ford is indeed bringing out SOHC/3 valve V-8's as in the new Mustang GT, but they are not doing away with the DOHC/4 valve Modular motor by an means. I would expect the DOHC heads to get a redo by Ford in the near future, and they are certainly due for one.
Don't cry in your beer over Ford not offering any "big inch" engines. The 5.4L, DOHC/4 valve. SC/Int. V-8 that we know the next Mustang Cobra is getting makes 500+hp. As does the 5.4L, SOHC, 3 valve SC/Int, V-8 in the next Lightning.
I would bet the next generation Falcon, if not this generation, is very likely to end up with one of these two motors between it's fenders in a GTHO type trim level. Especially since rumour has it that the next generation Falcon will share the S197 platform the new Mustang is debuting. This is only reinforced by people who say that the S197 platform is going to offer a control blade IRS on the new Mustang Cobra and other special edition Mustangs.
Currently the 5.4L V-8 is only offered in the Ford GT supercar, but it will be offered in the Mustang in the near future. (A 5.4L DOHC Supercharged V-8 has already been announced by SVT as the next motor for the Mustang Cobra, just like in the current GT) It also appears to be very likely for Mercury Marauder duty in the future as well. The 5.4L DOHC has also been offered in the 2000 Cobra R Mustang as well.
The 5.4L in the Falcon is actually based on a Lincoln Navigator cast iron block. But, that is anything but a bad thing. Ford is indeed bringing out SOHC/3 valve V-8's as in the new Mustang GT, but they are not doing away with the DOHC/4 valve Modular motor by an means. I would expect the DOHC heads to get a redo by Ford in the near future, and they are certainly due for one.
Don't cry in your beer over Ford not offering any "big inch" engines. The 5.4L, DOHC/4 valve. SC/Int. V-8 that we know the next Mustang Cobra is getting makes 500+hp. As does the 5.4L, SOHC, 3 valve SC/Int, V-8 in the next Lightning.
I would bet the next generation Falcon, if not this generation, is very likely to end up with one of these two motors between it's fenders in a GTHO type trim level. Especially since rumour has it that the next generation Falcon will share the S197 platform the new Mustang is debuting. This is only reinforced by people who say that the S197 platform is going to offer a control blade IRS on the new Mustang Cobra and other special edition Mustangs.
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