artificial inteligence

This has been a long-time theme in science-fiction, but it's creeping ever-closer to science fact... (Plus I've been thinking about the Matrix all day... :o)

Do you think mankind will 'give birth' to true artificial inteligence? Do you think they'll become self-aware?

If so, how will it be treated? As slave labor, or as 'equal' sentient beings.

Does an entity with artificial inteligence deserve 'human(!)' rights?
Does any entity with sentience deserve 'human/animal/???' rights?

I'd say equal rights. didn't you feel bad at the end of Terminator 2 when he got dipped in the molten metal? Remember,"I know now why humans cry, but it is something i can never do." :( poor arnold

you could ask the same question about clones.

A true form of AI is nowhere on the horizon. I doubt it ever will be.

Originally posted by YogsVR4
A true form of AI is nowhere on the horizon. I doubt it ever will be.

Why do you say that.....:confused:

I'm thinking if such a thing DOES happen , it will prolly be an accident.

The biggest thing that seperates us from animals and machines is our decision making abilities.... Which means I think we are closer to producing an AI than anyone wants to think about:bloated:

Originally posted by jay@af
This has been a long-time theme in science-fiction, but it's creeping ever-closer to science fact... (Plus I've been thinking about the Matrix all day... :o)

Do you think mankind will 'give birth' to true artificial inteligence? Do you think they'll become self-aware?

If so, how will it be treated? As slave labor, or as 'equal' sentient beings.

Does an entity with artificial inteligence deserve 'human(!)' rights?
Does any entity with sentience deserve 'human/animal/???' rights?

the very sliver of life, the "something" that makes us just work as biological beings, cannot be duplicated by us, imo...not in the way that we exist anyways. i do not believe that machines can fulfill all 7 characteristics of living organisms

Originally posted by Venger10


Why do you say that.....:confused:

I'm thinking if such a thing DOES happen , it will prolly be an accident.

The biggest thing that seperates us from animals and machines is our decision making abilities.... Which means I think we are closer to producing an AI than anyone wants to think about:bloated:

I gotta agree the most here. I do believe we have such and ability and it'll probably be an accident, all great things are. Well, great may not be the way to put it, but it is the way of humans. You think the Chinese set out to invent gunpowder. They probably accidently lit some chemical mixing, it exploded, they like, and contiued it.

My 2 cents

Originally posted by Venger10


Why do you say that.....:confused:

I'm thinking if such a thing DOES happen , it will prolly be an accident.

The biggest thing that seperates us from animals and machines is our decision making abilities.... Which means I think we are closer to producing an AI than anyone wants to think about:bloated:

Your question applies the other way around too. What makes you think we are close? I hope you aren't basing this on faster processors or more memory on a computer. Its just a fast adding machine. No decision making in the slightest. The closest it is to alive is a virus that can move like hell, but its hardly even close to self aware.

I'm from the camp that thinks true AI (human-like AI) will never be possible. It will always be mimicing human behavior, but never iniating it on its own.

Do I think one day robots may come to kill us all? Yeah. But that's the fault of the humans more than an emergence of AI. Why program homicidal tendencies, violent emotions, or other human flaws into a robot?

Originally posted by jinushaun
I'm from the camp that thinks true AI (human-like AI) will never be possible. It will always be mimicing human behavior, but never iniating it on its own.

Do I think one day robots may come to kill us all? Yeah. But that's the fault of the humans more than an emergence of AI. Why program homicidal tendencies, violent emotions, or other human flaws into a robot?

Because we don't have any competition.....:alien2:

Originally posted by YogsVR4
A true form of AI is nowhere on the horizon. I doubt it ever will be. Originally posted by jinushaun
I'm from the camp that thinks true AI (human-like AI) will never be possible. It will always be mimicing human behavior, but never iniating it on its own.How can you figure 'never?' We don't really understand 'natural intelligence' yet, so who's to say that a bunch of binary switches can't manage what a big wad of neurons can?

And I don't know if 'mankind' would be the ones to 'create' it... I'm curious as to what will happen when computers start programming other computers, even if they're just trying to use new routines at random. Theoretically, that would accelerate development, increasing the chances of 'hitting' on something new...

(I hope that doesn't sound stupid! :o)

Originally posted by jay@af
How can you figure 'never?' We don't really understand 'natural intelligence' yet, so who's to say that a bunch of binary switches can't manage what a big wad of neurons can?

And I don't know if 'mankind' would be the ones to 'create' it... I'm curious as to what will happen when computers start programming other computers, even if they're just trying to use new routines at random. Theoretically, that would accelerate development, increasing the chances of 'hitting' on something new...

(I hope that doesn't sound stupid! :o)

Sounds about right , actually....

I think reproduction is a bit more involved than just programming , though :rolleyes:

Would computers/cyborgs being built in factories built by themselves for themselves to be built in count as a form of reproduction???

Originally posted by jay@af
How can you figure 'never?' We don't really understand 'natural intelligence' yet, so who's to say that a bunch of binary switches can't manage what a big wad of neurons can?
Well there are two schools of thought regarding AI. There are those who want to simulate neurons, and there are those that want to simulate human behavior. I think the first method has a better chance than the second method in developing AI. The thing about nature and physics, is that it's all about equilibrium. Simulating the bajillion equilibria in our brain will be the best chance.

I think one day we will "stumble" upon artificial intelligence. I do not think however it will ever overpower us I.E. "The Matrix" If we can turn it on , we can turn it off.

Originally posted by BigJustinZ28
I think one day we will "stumble" upon artificial intelligence. I do not think however it will ever overpower us I.E. "The Matrix" If we can turn it on , we can turn it off.

Thats the big problem...would it "LET" itself be turned off?? I could ask you the same question....would you voluntarily just LET someone pull the plug on YOU...basically kill you??
PRETTY SURE THE ANSWER IS NO..and thats where the self-awareness and self preservation factor comes in...THATs what seperates us from the machines.;)

I don't think in my life time, or in MANY MANY MANY lifetimes after my own that a self-aware AI will come into being. We can't understand ourselves most of the time, so how would we ever be able to get another *thing* to understand us as well as its own self independantly. Pretty rough.

we have humans so why would we want AI it'd be a waste of time.

Originally posted by Venger10
Thats the big problem...would it "LET" itself be turned off?? I could ask you the same question....would you voluntarily just LET someone pull the plug on YOU...basically kill you??
PRETTY SURE THE ANSWER IS NO..and thats where the self-awareness and self preservation factor comes in...THATs what seperates us from the machines.;)
As I stated before, that's the programmer's fault. Why would you program that idea into the robot? :confused: Oh yeah, I forgot: Military. In case the 'enemy' tries to shut down one of your drones. :rolleyes: It's similar to what happened to HAL in 2001.

The thing that would seperate us from the mechanical clones is love. You can't program something that you don't understand. Love isn't logical at all.. if anything it's illogical. The wachowski brothers know...

Originally posted by NSX-R-SSJ20K
we have humans so why would we want AI it'd be a waste of time.

Some undesireable people just don't get sex enough... Supermodel robot/clone or fat prostitute on 1st and B? You decide..

Okay, idea, but how would you program something that isn't even aware that it "is" that it wants more???? Like, how could you convince a program that it wants more when it doesn't know what it has to begin with?

Originally posted by saturntangerine
Okay, idea, but how would you program something that isn't even aware that it "is" that it wants more???? Like, how could you convince a program that it wants more when it doesn't know what it has to begin with?

good point.

yea if you have seen the movie AI it kinda brings your thinkin into prospective (a little) [it is a very good movie i think]

i hope they dont have ai cause i dont know it is just weried and kinda sad too

Originally posted by saturntangerine
Okay, idea, but how would you program something that isn't even aware that it "is" that it wants more???? Like, how could you convince a program that it wants more when it doesn't know what it has to begin with?

Why would you want to program something so horrible as that though. That's the downfall of humans, the whole reason nobody gets along, is because people want more. More money, power, control. It's rediculous. I think robots could excel so much if they were programmed to learn all that they could, and put together in some robot society. Just don't let them breed...

Originally posted by Prelewd


Why would you want to program something so horrible as that though. That's the downfall of humans, the whole reason nobody gets along, is because people want more. More money, power, control. It's rediculous. I think robots could excel so much if they were programmed to learn all that they could, and put together in some robot society. Just don't let them breed...

And thats where the "matrix" comes in , because we will just be like animals to them:bloated:

Originally posted by Prelewd


Why would you want to program something so horrible as that though. That's the downfall of humans, the whole reason nobody gets along, is because people want more. More money, power, control. It's rediculous. I think robots could excel so much if they were programmed to learn all that they could, and put together in some robot society. Just don't let them breed...
Exactly. IMO, humans are naturally corrupt and evil. Creating robots 'in our image' will only lead to our demise.

if i turned my brain into a line of code it would be ridiculously long and that is why you can't have AI :o

It's too much for Metrowerks C++ too compile

The problem with AI is that once a machines are self aware, they'll only become lazy like us, and I'd rather not have to argure with my dishwasher about who's turn it is to wash the dishes...

Originally posted by NSX-R-SSJ20K
if i turned my brain into a line of code it would be ridiculously long and that is why you can't have AI :o

It's too much for Metrowerks C++ too compile

Mine would be an infinite loop and eventually give you a blue screen.

Originally posted by 2strokebloke
The problem with AI is that once a machines are self aware, they'll only become lazy like us, and I'd rather not have to argure with my dishwasher about who's turn it is to wash the dishes...

GENIUS !

I wouldn't want to argue with a PC connected to the internet. They're sneaky and screw you up all the time so if you piss it off by throwing it out the window or something one of its buddies will point a space laser at you and burn a hole in your head. SIMPLE!

I'd have fatal system errors all the time if my brain was interpretted to AI. :o

Burn a hole in your head? - no, more like upload you into a master computer, just like that movie Tron.

Every creation has a creator... in turn to itself it if it ever had awareness it would think its aware but.. in turn we would be able to predict it in every way. So it could develop character if you will but with the most cirmustance we would be able to predict. How much we know ourselves.. we can predict fairly well.. what we don't we don't.. but who says it's impossible, I am theist so.. I believe in God and can see a relationship in this.. just my opinion anyways.. We can never trully replicate ourselves. I've used a computer since I was 3 years old .. lucky kid when i was young my father worked in major computer and engineering positions.. from all those years with computers and other technologies surrounding me thats the opinion I've built upon. I no matter in what situation have always been somehow surrounded by machines and technology .. but.. they are merely tools and slaves. It becomes ethical and moral more or less being around machines.. they are a form of being and creatures.. albeit synthetic (in our opinion... what are we? in our opinion we are organic.. but is there others? what about creatures of light.. there are many things we dont know.. neutrinos a somewhat recent discovery.. its everywhere they are so damn fast we cant catch them -- well they were caught and finally prove d recently if im not mistaken they travel at lightspeed through our planet and other bodies, no mass or gravity affection etc.. its all weird science.. but its 'real'... just because we dont percieve it with oursenes.. well.. there are many possibilities.. machines are a realization from our limited senses and finite rational)

i don't think we are close at all...
and if by some chance we do invent a self aware machine it will never be treated equally.. hell we can't even treat humans equally...
and you'd think with such science fiction involved there would be a prime directive.. and it would not be violated, which would mean equal rights for any life form.. but we all know that doesn't happen..

I don't know...the thought of a true AI form could technically mean being human made of machine parts. If an AI machine was made to be exactly human, it's like giving birth to a human only at any stage in life. A missing factor that iI haven't seen yet or the school security system is blocking it is that a true AI would techincally need all aspects of us, right? When we refer to AI, we speak of a person, but made as a machine pretty much. A brain in a robot to put lightly. Well then, how would that be possible with humans going through so much. Could you describe adolesence to a machine without them personally going through it? I guess if you program the thoughts, then yes, but that mutes the point of it being AI. Once started, it should learn everything we can on it's own and without some personal experience it won't really live up to it's possible full potential of being us so to speak.

In the move AI, that was perfect to a point. The kid understood everything but he'd never experience anything beyond that. Puberty would be left out, then again why do that to machines, and so many other stages in life that the brain goes through. We alledgedly use only about, what was it??? 10% of our brains. how can we create something when we are still so blind has to how the mind works and what potential it has. Lets say we do, and the machines has all the capabilities we have yet because they are a machine perhaps they can learn better, grow faster, reah the full potential level before us. Then what? They've reached something that we may not even be able to describe.

Let's jump to the Matrix. I asked as to why Neo couldn't just make a weapon appear in his hand. it was answered that it's not humanly possible. Neo, being the one, and other freed people have the capcity to use everything to it's full potential. Apparently, you just can get stronger and faster. But what if that's not all. What if there's a level beyond that even. 90% is a lot of space...and we know nothing of it. To create a true form of AI would be some scary schiz. Robots, perhaps. we have those pretty much. Microwaves etc...but AI. I see no real need for it. It can only destroy us.

Originally posted by Damien
I don't know...the thought of a true AI form could technically mean being human made of machine parts. If an AI machine was made to be exactly human, it's like giving birth to a human only at any stage in life. A missing factor that iI haven't seen yet or the school security system is blocking it is that a true AI would techincally need all aspects of us, right? When we refer to AI, we speak of a person, but made as a machine pretty much. A brain in a robot to put lightly. Well then, how would that be possible with humans going through so much. Could you describe adolesence to a machine without them personally going through it? I guess if you program the thoughts, then yes, but that mutes the point of it being AI. Once started, it should learn everything we can on it's own and without some personal experience it won't really live up to it's possible full potential of being us so to speak.

In the move AI, that was perfect to a point. The kid understood everything but he'd never experience anything beyond that. Puberty would be left out, then again why do that to machines, and so many other stages in life that the brain goes through. We alledgedly use only about, what was it??? 10% of our brains. how can we create something when we are still so blind has to how the mind works and what potential it has. Lets say we do, and the machines has all the capabilities we have yet because they are a machine perhaps they can learn better, grow faster, reah the full potential level before us. Then what? They've reached something that we may not even be able to describe.

Let's jump to the Matrix. I asked as to why Neo couldn't just make a weapon appear in his hand. it was answered that it's not humanly possible. Neo, being the one, and other freed people have the capcity to use everything to it's full potential. Apparently, you just can get stronger and faster. But what if that's not all. What if there's a level beyond that even. 90% is a lot of space...and we know nothing of it. To create a true form of AI would be some scary schiz. Robots, perhaps. we have those pretty much. Microwaves etc...but AI. I see no real need for it. It can only destroy us.


Then how can Neo stop bullets without touching them and also FLY. Both of these things are humanly impossible. The movies nor any of the side stories (Enter the Matrix videogame is a side story) touch on exactly why and why not certain things can be done.:confused:

Originally posted by Venger10



Then how can Neo stop bullets without touching them and also FLY. Both of these things are humanly impossible. The movies nor any of the side stories (Enter the Matrix videogame is a side story) touch on exactly why and why not certain things can be done.:confused:

Without diving too much into the matrix and straying off topic, I would just like to try to answer this question. time is an element in the equation of energy to some extent. when neo stops the bullets, he's condensing energy that he would have used over a period of maybe an hour, and putting it into a time frame of split seconds. the force of his hand alone, creating the air energy in front of it stopped the bullets. this is just my theory though, or one possible explanation. i'm sure there are various sites about this to read up on.

Originally posted by Venger10



Then how can Neo stop bullets without touching them and also FLY. Both of these things are humanly impossible. The movies nor any of the side stories (Enter the Matrix videogame is a side story) touch on exactly why and why not certain things can be done.:confused:

Well, it's thought he can just jump really hard like. Enough pressure exerted and you can go..."I'm not flying, I'm falling with style" And for him to speed up is the same for the bullets.

But to go back on-topic, these are some of the things that we don't know whether we can or can't do it. Do we really want a machine to learn before us. i guess anyone can, but why add to the uncontrolled?