starter problems

hi to all. my 87 f=150 wont start. it worked ok when i parked it, but overnight it wont atart. the battery is ok, the solenoid appears ok. so i guess its the starter? thanks
bill

Being an 87, if you have never had a starter put on it in 23 years, yes, I'd say that is the problem.

well, we put the starter on. it still wouldnt start. changed the solenoid and it wouldnt work either. advance store gave me a solenoid that didnt look like the one that was on there. it had 4 posts on it where mine only had three. wrong solenoid switch? it tried to start after switching wires around. it did turn over for a few turns. then all went dead. no lights or dash lights or any thing. no heater blower or any thing works. did we kill the solenoid switch? or rather did we burn it up? again thanks.
bill

someone said we may have blowed the in line fuse? its in a line that goes from the battery to the fuse box/ i dont even know where that is at. i guess we messed it up good. i have no juice to the dash or anything. we may have hooked the solenoid up wrong. my daughter says she saw a little smoke coming from under there somewhere when we tried to start it. since then it has been dead. thanks guys/
bill

someone said we may have blowed the in line fuse? its in a line that goes from the battery to the fuse box/ i dont even know where that is at. i guess we messed it up good. i have no juice to the dash or anything. we may have hooked the solenoid up wrong. my daughter says she saw a little smoke coming from under there somewhere when we tried to start it. since then it has been dead. thanks guys/
bill
well now i got the juixe back to the dash and all. it still wont start. it tries to turn over and it does turn for a few seconds, then it wont turn any more. bad battery? sheesh i have such good luck, lol well im not a mechanic and i cant afford one [limoted income] so i do the best i can. thanks again
bill

If you have a charger then I'd put the battery on charge just in case the problem is nothing more than a flat battery. If you have a multimeter then check the battery voltage - with the ignition switched off you should have around 12.6 volts at the battery terminals. If the voltage is as low as 12.4 or 12.3 then the engine should still crank and start, but if it's much below that then it might not crank until the battery has been recharged.

Which solenoid do you have fitted now? Is it the original three-terminal, the new four-terminal, or a new three terminal? I'll assume it's a three-terminal, which should look something like this:

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x64/Selectron/Misc/85-89-f150truckstartersolenoid.jpg

The way the solenoid works is, when you turn the ignition switch to the Start position, 12 volts is applied to the small terminal and the solenoid coil becomes energised, creating a magnetic field which causes a plunger to bridge the two large terminals - current then flows from the battery to the starter motor, and the engine should crank.

If you suspect that the small terminal isn't getting 12 volts, or not getting the full 12 volts, then you can get a length of wire and attach one end to that small terminal - route the other end up to near the battery, strip a quarter inch of the insulation off of the end of it but don't actually connect it to anything - just have it sitting there, ready. Then ensure that the transmission is in Park or Neutral (for an automatic) or Neutral (for a manual), apply the parking brake and then switch the ignition to the Run position (that's the position where the dashboard warning lamps and gauges all come to life), then go and touch the bare end of that wire onto the battery positive terminal - the engine should crank and fire - take the wire off of the terminal as soon as the engine fires.

The other thing you can do is bypass the solenoid by bridging the two large solenoid terminals. Once again, ensure that the engine is in Neutral or Park (automatic) or Neutral (manual), apply the parking brake and then switch the ignition to the Run position - then use a heavy screwdriver to bridge the two large solenoid terminals to each other - the engine should then crank and fire. Ensure that the screwdriver doesn't contact anything else metallic - only those two terminals.

Try one or more of the above and let us know what happens, and that should give some indication of where the root of the problem is. Oh yes, and this is the starter wiring diagram (top left of the page) on the Autozone website: link 1 (http://www.autozone.com/autozone/repairinfo/repairguide/repaiguideOverlay.jsp?src=http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0996b43f/80/21/dd/67/large/0996b43f8021dd67.&imageType=gif&imageName=Fig.%2026:%20Chassis%20wiring-1987-89%20F-Series%20and%20Bronco) - if that doesn't work then try this one: link 2 (http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0996b43f/80/21/dd/67/large/0996b43f8021dd67.gif).

i have the 4 post solenoid. thats what they sold me at advance store. i have charged the battery and still no start. im gonna try the screwdriver cross this morning and see what that does. i have even used another battery to jump it, still no start. sometimes it tries to start. it turns over but then stops and sounds like the battery is dead. but i charge it for 5 or 6 hours and still no luck. thanks
bill

i have the 4 post solenoid. thats what they sold me at advance store. i have charged the battery and still no start. im gonna try the screwdriver cross this morning and see what that does. i have even used another battery to jump it, still no start. sometimes it tries to start. it turns over but then stops and sounds like the battery is dead. but i charge it for 5 or 6 hours and still no luck. thanks
bill
ok. i tried the screwdriver method. no start, but i could hear it hitting the starter when i touched the two terminals together. i think the starter is bad/ course i think too much at times. lol i dont know what to do now
bill

sometimes it tries to start. it turns over but then stops and sounds like the battery is dead.
bill

That sounds like a bad battery cable OR a dirty connection with a battery cable. I would make sure you have clean and tight battery post connections and also clean the ground connection where it hooks to the engine. Could also be a bad battery cable.

Still not cranking even when you bypass the solenoid with a screwdriver eh? That eliminates a lot of things including the solenoid itself. I agree with mechhound - the battery connections and cables are at the top of the list of suspects, because there are only a few possibilities remaining which could cause the problem. I'd remove the battery connections and clean the battery posts and the mating surfaces of the connectors.

On the solenoid you have those two large, copper terminals - there is a heavy cable which runs from the battery positive post to one solenoid terminal, and an equally heavy cable which runs from the other solenoid terminal down to the starter - if, after cleaning the battery posts and connections it still won't crank or only cranks slowly, then after cranking, feel along the length of those two cables - they will be warm, but if you find a real hot spot then the cable could be internally corroded at that point.

It's also possible that the new starter is bad. I'd take it back and have it tested.

also sounds like a ground problem, make sure the motor is grounded to the frame, simle check is to hook one end of the booter cable to the motor and the other end to the frame, try it to see if turns over

the starter clicks and the selonoid clicks, but no start. i took the starter off and had it checked. it was good. so i guess i'll buy 2 new cables and try that. i havent even thought about cables. im about ready to quit messing with it. lol thanks for all the ideas guys
bill

ok guys, it was the ground cabie the mechanic said. i tried everything and nothing worked for me i tried every thing but the ground cable.[jinxed i guess] called the mechanic. he picked it up on a roll back[45.00] fixed the problem[25.00] total 70.00 but im good to go now. thanks a lot for you all's help. if i had been smarter i should have fixed it my self. lol thanks a lot
bill

That's good; thanks for letting us know. That was a reasonable price too.

well right back to where i was, it wouldnt start again yesterday. the mechanics helper camr down and put cables to the battery and solenoid and every where, he says its the starter. but it sounds just like it did before.?????? helppppppppppppp
bill

ok it stopped again. starter went completely out. i put a new starter from auto-zone on it. it drags but wont start. battery is good. maybe a bad starter or cables? thanks
bill

That's good; thanks for letting us know. That was a reasonable price too.
i have the 4 post solenoid, all wires are hooked to the post near the firewall. the starter wire is hooked to the post near the front of the truck. the little wire is hooked to the top post. it still aint starting.

ok it stopped again. starter went completely out. i put a new starter from auto-zone on it. it drags but wont start. battery is good. maybe a bad starter or cables? thanks
bill

If the battery is good, I would guess bad starter.