Gooding & Co to auction #062 in Monterey

Chassis 062 will be offered in an auction at Pebble Beach, august 2010:

http://www.goodingco.com/stories/alfa_mclaren_pebble_beach

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/news/2509-gooding-puts-1933-alfa-romeo-8c-2300-monza-on-monterey-block

The 1995 McLaren F1, Chassis No. 062, A Rare California Registered F1
Enthusiasts the world over recognize McLaren’s F1 as a prime example of automotive excellence. The 1995 McLaren F1 car being offered was sold new to Larry Ellison, the co-founder and CEO of Oracle, who is also a major financier of the BMW Oracle Racing team. An elite car by many standards, it is one of a few McLaren supercars registered, titled and certified for use in California. Finished in Magnesium Silver over a black interior, this car is in original factory-delivered form and will arrive at auction complete with the factory-delivered luggage and tools. Gooding & Company’s estimate for this car is between $2.5 - $3.5 Million.

File Photo:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20C/th_f1012m.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20C/f1012m.jpg)

Well for starters, it's not a 1995 McLaren F1... :uhoh:

Also, no mention of it's "Ameritech F1" history in that brief snippet of the description. I wonder if they will expand on that in the full description or mention the car's has two VINs? I'd say that is pretty important information because it's currently registered under its Ameritech VIN in CA and that is clearly something a buyer might want to know ahead of time.

>8^)
ER

File Photo:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20C/th_f1012m.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20C/f1012m.jpg)

Well for starters, it's not a 1995 McLaren F1... :uhoh:

Also, no mention of it's "Ameritech F1" history in that brief snippet of the description. I wonder if they will expand on that in the full description or mention the car's has two VINs? I'd say that is pretty important information because it's currently registered under its Ameritech VIN in CA and that is clearly something a buyer might want to know ahead of time.

>8^)
ER
Not even a '96.
The buyer might also want to know if the car has a genuine OBD II certification, as required by law.

I'd like to know why anyone in his right mind would buy a car at auction in the first place.
You've got maximum competition amongst other potential buyers, the agent is working for the seller, despite that fact the buyer has to pay the agent a commission on top of the hammer price, and it's difficult if not impossible to give the car complete scrutiny and test-drive or be driven in it before committing to buy it.
Crazy.

Not even a '96.
The buyer might also want to know if the car has a genuine OBD II certification, as required by law.

Well that's the thing about its Ameritech VIN: 1A9MC99L9SA398062

The 'S' in the 10th position = 1995

So therefore in this particular case there would be no requirement for the OBD-II certification which is perhaps a good thing as that would be altering the car further from it's original configuration and might turn some buyers off?

Quite the paradox I guess.

I agree with you on the auction bit. Unless the car is 1 of 1 you should perhaps look elsewhere.

>8^)
ER

Well that's the thing about its Ameritech VIN: 1A9MC99L9SA398062

The 'S' in the 10th position = 1995

So therefore in this particular case there would be no requirement for the OBD-II certification which is perhaps a good thing as that would be altering the car further from it's original configuration and might turn some buyers off?

Quite the paradox I guess.

I agree with you on the auction bit. Unless the car is 1 of 1 you should perhaps look elsewhere.

>8^)
ER
The Department of Transportation are aware of the Driving Ambition book, and recognise the build dates in there as an authoritative reference.

What you say about the Ameritech VIN of this car is, shall we say, "interesting". The tub will have its own VIN moulded into the floor, and that will be a McLaren VIN (unless it has been defaced). The VIN that you quote is quite different from the McLaren VIN.
I don't suppose that there was anything physically preventing Ameritech from labeling this car with a '95 VIN, even though #062 obviously was not built in '95. The only explanations for this anomaly that occur to me are that this car is not #062, or that it is #062, built in '97 and received by Ameritech in that year, but Ameritech gave it a '95 VIN either by mistake or because - just hypothetically, mind you - they wanted to avoid the OBD-II requirement.

You're importing into the US cars that were built in tiny numbers. This meant that there were not a lot of examples for the authorities to use for reference or to record a history. That made easier the importer's task of certification.
This also meant, however, that there were not many cars available for the importer to procure and bring to America. If the importer's desired universe were further limited, to cars built prior to 1996, the task of procurement would be that much more difficult. It perhaps would not have been that easy in 1997 to buy F1s that had been built in '94 or '95 but still had only delivery miles.
If however, the importer were able to bring in '96-or-later cars, which except for their VINs were identical to pre-'96 cars, and give them its own, pre-dated VINs, then the importer would not have to deal with that nasty OBD-II stuff.

I don't know that that happened; I hope that it did not happen. It is true that there have been all sorts of shenanigans with F1s that came in under SorD, so we're not talking about an industry populated exclusively by Boy Scouts.
The incorrect VIN of #062 does make one wonder what the real story is: another reason for anyone to be very careful about bidding for this particular car.

I'd like to know why anyone in his right mind would buy a car at auction in the first place.
You've got maximum competition amongst other potential buyers, the agent is working for the seller, despite that fact the buyer has to pay the agent a commission on top of the hammer price, and it's difficult if not impossible to give the car complete scrutiny and test-drive or be driven in it before committing to buy it.
Crazy.

I was explained once by a friend who's also a high end car dealer that the open bar and tv cameras help ;)

tortoise - this old post from gerd was made before your time and might go a long way to explaining some of the questions you have about how the government agencies ultimately resolved the issues with the Ameritech F1s. It also might raise more questions too, but it would be to your benefit to read it I believe:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2140989&postcount=127

For certain the cars were re-VIN'd as 1995s to avoid the hassles of OBD-II but also the VINs were altered because, as the story goes, to get them into the USA in the method that was used at the time Ameritech Corp was shown as the Manufacturer. Check out this photo from mini magic of the alternate vehicle ID tag fixed to the door of Ralph Lauren's F1 (#055) which was imported the same way as #062 and was also not built in 1995.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20J/th_Ameritech_Sticker_a.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20J/Ameritech_Sticker_a.jpg)

= = =

I think the auction scenario definitely helped move chassis #014. When presented with a room full of people who had the capability and perhaps the desire to purchase that car the selling dealership finally realized its true value was not equal to the amount they had been trying to obtain for the car. After a bit of stalling they lifted the reserve in an effort to spur more bidding and a few moment later it was sold. This after sitting in their showroom for nearly a year and having offers made that may have even been slightly better than what they ended up with. At least the car found a great new home and I don't think the buyer's overpaid.

>8^)
ER

tortoise - this old post from gerd was made before your time and might go a long way to explaining some of the questions you have about how the government agencies ultimately resolved the issues with the Ameritech F1s. It also might raise more questions too, but it would be to your benefit to read it I believe:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2140989&postcount=127

For certain the cars were re-VIN'd as 1995s to avoid the hassles of OBD-II but also the VINs were altered because, as the story goes, to get them into the USA in the method that was used at the time Ameritech Corp was shown as the Manufacturer. Check out this photo from mini magic of the alternate vehicle ID tag fixed to the door of Ralph Lauren's F1 (#055) which was imported the same way as #062 and was also not built in 1995.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20J/th_Ameritech_Sticker_a.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20J/Ameritech_Sticker_a.jpg)

= = =

I think the auction scenario definitely helped move chassis #014. When presented with a room full of people who had the capability and perhaps the desire to purchase that car the selling dealership finally realized its true value was not equal to the amount they had been trying to obtain for the car. After a bit of stalling they lifted the reserve in an effort to spur more bidding and a few moment later it was sold. This after sitting in their showroom for nearly a year and having offers made that may have even been slightly better than what they ended up with. At least the car found a great new home and I don't think the buyer's overpaid.

>8^)
ER
Thanks for that.
Dick Merritt told me (this would have been after the date of the e-mail correspondence in Gerd's post) that NHTSA had concluded that the 7 Ameritech cars were a fait accompli, and there were no real grounds for challenging the importation of cars that the DoT had already specifically approved.
Of course, this would not relate to OBD-II, which is not a safety feature and exists under not only the DoT domain.
For the same reason, SoD approval does not exempt a car from OBD-II requirements, which were imposed by the Clean Air Act and are monitored and enforced primarily by the EPA, not by DoT.
Therefore, regardless of what NHTSA may think about a particular car as regards its own criteria, if the car is from '96 or after, it has to comply with OBD-II. Perhaps #062 does indeed comply, but the mere fact that it's a '97 car with a '95 VIN would not exempt it from the requirement.

For certain the cars were re-VIN'd as 1995s to avoid the hassles of OBD-II but also the VINs were altered because, as the story goes, to get them into the USA in the method that was used at the time Ameritech Corp was shown as the Manufacturer. Check out this photo from mini magic of the alternate vehicle ID tag fixed to the door of Ralph Lauren's F1 (#055) which was imported the same way as #062 and was also not built in 1995.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20J/th_Ameritech_Sticker_a.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20J/Ameritech_Sticker_a.jpg)


>8^)
ER
Interesting foil label there.
What would one call the information on it - fraudulent, maybe? If someone bought the car with that label, and with the expectation that it was exempt from OBD-II, and subsequently he was pulled up short by the EPA, I wonder if he would have grounds to sue either the seller or the outfit that created and put on the label?
Ameritech exploited the kit-car loophole, but they did that openly, right in front of the regulating authority. For a while DoT said, "Okay", then they said, "No more." That was fair enough.
This, however - putting '95 VINs on '97 cars - that's not a loophole.

Therefore, regardless of what NHTSA may think about a particular car as regards its own criteria, if the car is from '96 or after, it has to comply with OBD-II. Perhaps #062 does indeed comply, but the mere fact that it's a '97 car with a '95 VIN would not exempt it from the requirement.

I certainly agree with your final statement on principle, but if the only VIN the EPA have ever seen connected with this car is the Ameritech one then there wouldn't have been any point in the process where OBD-II compliance would have been a requirement for importing this car. If at some point the McLaren VIN is realized by the EPA and determined to be the actual valid VIN for this car one would assume that it could become an issue, but even that I am not sure of?

Funny enough, this car had some past issues with it's emissions testing here in the State of CA. At one point it had a fraudulent SMOG certificate issued for it by a mechanic who was apparently supplying them by mail without even looking at the car. When his operation got busted Ellison's F1 was one of the many cars that was determined to have been 'involved'. Of couse this sparked a bit of public controversy, even making the local newspapers at the time since Ellison is a big name in the Bay Area and not everyone has reason to like him.

State records show that after that issue surfaced the car was tested twice in March 2004. The first test was aborted and then it failed during the second test about 20 minutes later. Then a full 8 months went by before it was tested again and passed. Since then it has been tested twice according to state records (in 2008 and 2010) and passed both of those times as well. There should also be an entry for 2006 when the car was sold, but it doesn't appear online for some reason? All records the State has for this car reference it with the Ameritech VIN and the car as a 1995 McLaren F1.

BTW: Our SMOG tests are mandated and processed by California's Bureau of Automotive Repair and have no direct connection to the EPA which is a federal agency for those not familiar.

>8^)
ER

I certainly agree with your final statement on principle, but if the only VIN the EPA have ever seen connected with this car is the Ameritech one then there wouldn't have been any point in the process where OBD-II compliance would have been a requirement for importing this car. If at some point the McLaren VIN is realized by the EPA and determined to be the actual valid VIN for this car one would assume that it could become an issue, but even that I am not sure of?

Funny enough, this car had some past issues with it's emissions testing here in the State of CA. At one point it had a fraudulent SMOG certificate issued for it by a mechanic who was apparently supplying them by mail without even looking at the car. When his operation got busted Ellison's F1 was one of the many cars that was determined to have been 'involved'. Of couse this sparked a bit of public controversy, even making the local newspapers at the time since Ellison is a big name in the Bay Area and not everyone has reason to like him.

State records show that after that issue surfaced the car was tested twice in March 2004. The first test was aborted and then it failed during the second test about 20 minutes later. Then a full 8 months went by before it was tested again and passed. Since then it has been tested twice according to state records (in 2008 and 2010) and passed both of those times as well. There should also be an entry for 2006 when the car was sold, but it doesn't appear online for some reason? All records the State has for this car reference it with the Ameritech VIN and the car as a 1995 McLaren F1.

>8^)
ER
The vulnerability of this (or any) car to OBD-II scrutiny is perhaps not different from the vulnerability of any SorD car to scrutiny of its 2500 mi annual limit. The chances may be slim that the truth will ever come to light, but if it did come to light, the owner could have a bit of a problem with the law. Most of us could tolerate having a problem with the law about an old Beetle, but we'd rather not have one about a multi-million $ unrepeatable piece of motoring history.

Wrt the EPA certifications for SorD, at least a few years ago there were only a handful of approved labs in the US for testing conformity to Federal emissions requirements. The ones I recall were in Houston, N Cal, S Cal, and Baltimore. As it happened, at least two of those four did not only the testing, but they also did modifications to make a car compliant - or at least that's what it said on the certificate that was produced by the same people who did the modifications.
I found their certifications very credible. Then again, just this morning I sent my Christmas list to Santa Claus.

Then again, just this morning I sent my Christmas list to Santa Claus.

:rofl:

I seem to recall that JK Technologies prepared the certificates for the Ameritech cars as Amerispec was not yet a certified RI or ICI at the time. I'd have to dig through more of gerd's posts than I'd care to read right now to confirm that though. :grinno:

I also remember that he stated two of the cars were inspected by the EPA at their headquarters in Ann Arbor, MI. Perhaps they sent #042 and #045 as those were the 2 out of the 7 which were actually built in 1995. :dunno:

I agree that legal troubles of this magnatude should be avoided as often as possible. The government was not shy about holding onto chassis #069 for several years while that mess was sorted out - eventually forcing the vehicle to be exported. In 8 more years (assuming the laws remain the same) it won't matter one way or another as a 1997 MY car will then be exempt from the EPA's requirements, but that's a long time to be potentially looking over your shoulder.

There is another owner of one of these Ameritech F1s who I believe looks in on the forum from time to time. Perhaps he'll have some further insight to offer on all of this if he catches the thread?

>8^)
ER

In 8 more years (assuming the laws remain the same) it won't matter one way or another as a 1997 MY car will then be exempt from the EPA's requirements...

What exemption is that?

Vehicles 21 Years Old Or Older

If the vehicle is at least 21 years old, there are no EPA compliance requirements upon importation. The age of the vehicle is determined by subtracting the calendar year of manufacture from the calendar year of importation. If the calendar year of manufacture is unavailable, the importer may substitute the model year or year of first registration. For instance, to qualify in 2001, the vehicle must have been manufactured in 1980 or earlier. The vehicle must be in its original unmodified configuration. Vehicles at least 21 years old with replacement engines are not eligible for this exemption unless they contain equivalent or newer EPA certified engines.

No approval or Customs bond is required by EPA.

Of course these cars have already been imported so... :dunno:

Also - the DOT still has their 25 year restriction on non-conforming vehicles in place.

>8^)
ER

With respect to auctions, they often give a clear indication of the maximum price the market is willing to pay, which can be very helpful if it is hard to price. Say for #014, they had it for a long time and couldn't sell it at the price they wanted. An auction then tells them roughly the max they can get, and they can go from there. Say the bids reached 1.8 Million, but they wanted 2.5-2.8, at least they know what they can get and go from there :)

I think the argument was that auctions aren't the best situation if you are a buyer as (using your excellent example in reverse) you'll almost certainly discover through that process what the maximum price is that someone else is willing to pay, and then if you really want the item you have to bid more and pay the fees on top of that.

They are fun to watch though, especially when the car on the block is pulling 7 figures. :naughty:

>8^)
ER

Well, in the case of a car like #014, if they were asking say $2mill, top bid was $1.5mill, then you are more likely to get the car as they have to re-evaluate their asking price. In that case, say you negotiate to $1.75mil, then they sell it for max AND you get it cheaper than outright purchase.

I agree though that more often than not it is a worse situation for the buyer, but certainately not always the case (and as 'No Reserve' auctions here in NZ are quite big these days thats becoming the case more often, though normally for cheaper things).

Gooding & Co have the full description for this car on their site now.

1995 McLaren F1 - Chassis No. 062

Estimate: $2,500,000 - $3,500,000

■Two Owners from New
■California Registered, US Delivery Car
■EPA and BAR Certified
■Complete with Tools and Fitted Luggage
■Less than 3,500 Original Miles
■Recently Serviced by the McLaren Authorized Service Center
■A Milestone in Automobile Design

http://www.goodingco.com/auction/galleries/1995(1997)_McLaren_F1_051.jpg

The F1
The brainchild of gifted designer Gordon Murray, the McLaren F1 has become recognized the world over as a prime example of the pursuit for automotive excellence.

Constructed with the same care and attention to detail that epitomizes a Formula One operation, the F1 was designed without compromise, engineered with elegance and assembled with precision, utilizing the finest materials available including aluminum, titanium, carbon fiber and even gold.

The engine, spearheaded by BMW Motorsport’s Paul Rosche, was tailor-made to suit the needs of the F1 development team, and the normally aspirated V-12 combines the best of all worlds. It has tremendous reserves of torque, a linear delivery and an unforgettable sound. Not only did it make a fabulous powerplant for the road-going F1, it helped McLaren win the 24-Hour of Le Mans and served in BMW’s own successful racing efforts.

When the F1 debuted in 1992, it captured headlines in every motor magazine worldwide. In the years since, it has been bestowed with every automotive cliché, every possible hyperbole, and has been featured in countless books, films and television series. Yet, despite its exposure in the media, it is a rare instance to see one on the road or at a show. Because of their scarcity, they make even the most exclusive supercars seem plentiful by way of comparison.

The F1 is not the typical overweight hyper-car, nor is it a bare-bones, kidney-jarring track toy; rather it is a lithe, beautifully engineered jewel of a car that is just as capable on a closed circuit as it is on crowded city streets. Were it not for its unique center seat layout and drop-jawed onlookers, one might easily forget that they are piloting one of the most extreme high-performance automobiles ever produced. Professional racing drivers have remarked that it is a true enthusiast’s car – lightweight, nimble, balanced and refined.

It has been almost 20 years since the F1 was introduced to the public and more than a decade since the last example was produced. In that time there have been many attempts to overtake the McLaren. Some may have gone faster, been more audacious, had a more dramatic combination of letters and numbers in their title, yet none has ever come close to stealing the F1s status as the king of the modern supercar.

This Car
Chassis 062 was sold new to Larry Ellison, co-founder and CEO of Oracle. Noted as one of the world’s wealthiest men, Mr. Ellison is also an avid sportsman with a competitive spirit. For years he has been a major financier of the BMW Oracle Racing team, was a participant in the America’s Cup and has owned a number of high-tech aircraft.

Delivered new to California, 062 is in a particularly rarified league as it is one of only a handful of these British-built supercars registered, titled and certified for use in this state. It carries the necessary BAR labels and EPA documentation regarding its importation and can thus continue to be road-registered in California. Very few F1s are eligible to do so.

Mr. Ellison owned the McLaren for the better part of a decade before selling it to its current owner, a noted California connoisseur with a stable of important sports and racing cars. In his care, the F1 has been exercised with regularity and has always been maintained as needed. As recently as July 2009, the F1 visited the factory authorized center in Oxnard, California, where it received a $70,000 major service that included a new clutch, new fuel cells, a complete fresh set of the specially designed Michelin tires and any other minor adjustments needed at the time. Later that year, the car returned for the factory catalytic converter update that has allowed it to pass a recent California smog examination.

Finished in Magnesium Silver over a black interior, 062 is a pinnacle example of the world’s most recognized high-performance car. In its 15 years, it has never been modified from its original appearance and has seen just enough use to keep it in fine running order without compromising its outstanding cosmetic condition.

Unlike many examples, this car has never been abused, modified with GT components or been through a color change. It remains essentially as delivered and, at the time of cataloging, the F1 displayed a mere 3,242 miles on the odometer. It should also be noted that this F1 is offered with its factory delivered luggage and tools as well as various service records.

Chassis 062 is, quite simply, a fabulous example of these groundbreaking automobiles and a prize for forward thinking collectors.

No mention of the car's unique importation process or the fact that it's not covered under Show or Display, thus no mileage limitation. Also nothing about the alternate VIN (of course) and that may be fine. Some buyers might not be concerned with that? :dunno:

One thing I did find interesting is the filename on the image above contains this: "1995(1997)_McLaren_F1" - so which is it? ;)

I'm going to hold off on sharing all the images they have included - one, because they're all that size and I suspect other sources will perhaps supply them at higher resolution, but also because they're only made available using Flash and the viewer is causing some awkward lines through some of them when scaling. :frown:

You can see the full set of photos for yourself on their website after supplying an email address as registration:

Gooding & Co Monterey 2010 - McLaren F1 #062 - Lot #146 (http://www.goodingco.com/auction/index.php?page=product&pid=145)

>8^)
ER

Automobilemag.com has a couple of the images in a slightly larger resolution:

http://image.automobilemag.com/f/classic-cars/gooding-and-co-to-auction-1995-mclaren-f1-and-1933-alfa-romeo-8c-monza/28578773+w750+st0/1995-mclaren-f1-front-view.jpg

http://image.automobilemag.com/f/classic-cars/gooding-and-co-to-auction-1995-mclaren-f1-and-1933-alfa-romeo-8c-monza/28578764+w750+st0/1995-mclaren-f1-side-view.jpg

http://image.automobilemag.com/f/classic-cars/gooding-and-co-to-auction-1995-mclaren-f1-and-1933-alfa-romeo-8c-monza/28578842+w750+st0/1995-mclaren-f1-interior.jpg

That first pair look almost like a Minichamps 1/12th model even though its not.

>8^)
ER

That first pair look almost like a Minichamps 1/12th model even though its not.

>8^)
ER

Thats exactly what I was thinking lol. You sure its not? :naughty:

Just barely sure - I think that says something about the quality of those models. :thumbsup:

>8^)
ER

anyone got an image of the old Ameritech ft bumper kit. I cant find my image.

Regardless, I'm 99% sure it is not a McLaren #62

anyone got an image of the old Ameritech ft bumper kit. I cant find my image.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20G/ameritechf1_edit.jpg

Regardless, I'm 99% sure it is not a McLaren #62

Not sure what you mean there? :confused:

>8^)
ER

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20G/ameritechf1_edit.jpg



Not sure what you mean there? :confused:

>8^)
ER

thanks Eric. Ignore my comment on it not being #62. I thought it was a different car

Autoblog has 5 of the Gooding shots of #062 at a higher resolution:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/30/gooding-to-auction-1995-mclaren-f1-in-monterey/

>8^)
ER

So out of curiousity, what do you guys think about the price estimates? High, low?

There are quite a large number of high valued cars included in the 5 auctions that will occur up in Monterey in 2 weeks time. RM has even added one additional night to their normal 2-night event in order to cope with the large number of cars they hope to sell. It's either going to end up being a record year for sales in Monterey this year or there will be a lot of disappointment. This will be a true test of how stable the high end collector car market is holding up in this down economy.

All that said, I think if a buyer isn't concerned with the VIN issues then the low estimate on this car should be no trouble. I think it is fair to compare this car to #068 which was sold in 2009 for a figure near $2.5M so it is certainly not an unreasonable price. The high estimate might even be possible if there is enough interest in the car (we all saw what happened with #065 in 2008) but I wouldn't count on it.

I'll put my guess in for 'sold at $2.8M' before commission.

>8^)
ER

One of our favorite shots courtesy of Wouter @ UCP:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20J/th_f1-1-2.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20J/f1-1-2.jpg)

I've added it to the Chassis Plate thread as well.

>8^)
ER

No mention of the car's unique importation process or the fact that it's not covered under Show or Display, thus no mileage limitation. Also nothing about the alternate VIN (of course) and that may be fine. Some buyers might not be concerned with that?

Erik, are you a reader of Sports Car Market by chance? I would think that RM would be partly responsible for presenting the true history and facts about the car. They rely on information from the consignor but they do their own research. If a VIN discrepency came about when the new owner tried to register the car, I would guess that he/she has some recourse with RM and the consignor. Just as Christie's was on the hook for the Auto Union's real identity, I'm sure RM would be as well for this. Then again, I just read SCM. I'm not actually involved.

Maybe they did their research and wrote their catalog description forcefully to reassure potential buyers the VIN won't be a future issue. Still, I think it should be noted in the description.

Wasn't there an issue with Christie's or Gooding at Greenwich a few years ago? It was an episode of Chasing Classic Cars where the Connecticut DMV wanted to shut the auction down because of VIN issues. In the DMV's investigation they identified, I think, four cars with suspcious VINs. I remember they resolved it but those cars had to be revised prior to their auctions commencing.

Two interesting SCM articles that touch on the subjects at hand:

This one in particular: http://www.sportscarmarket.com/columns/legal-files/2450-can-california-s-amnesty-help-you-with-your-replica
"Vehicles such as the GT40 replica, the Noble, and other examples of "kit cars" are classified as specially constructed vehicles in California. Generally, they must be built by or for the first owner." #062 was "built for Larry Ellison" by Ameritech, who, it appears, was a kit car builder.
"But the key point with SPCNS in California is that their year of build is counted as the year of title... That may seem of little consequence until you consider that the car must meet the emissions requirements for its year of build." If Ameritech was recognized as the builder and they issued the title to Ellison as a 1995 model, aren't they in the free and clear to not meet OBD-II standards? At least meeting California's laws?

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/columns/legal-files/2200-in-vin-veritas

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/columns/legal-files/2162-when-title-tricks-won-t-wash


Glad I wandered in here today...

Drew - I'm not a regular SCM reader, so thanks for the links. I'm familiar with CA's laws for specially constructed vehicles, but doubt they came into play with the F1. I'm not suggesting that its CA registration is improper, just that it was not done using the McLaren VIN. Not sure that fully addresses the comments, but I was in no way suggesting the CA registration was invalid.

Gooding & Co have added the Ameritech VIN to the auction description now with this comment:

Please note that complete chassis number reads 1A9MC99L9SA398062.

= = =

Video preview of #062 at Gooding and an interview with Antony Sheriff of McLaren Automotive:

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/4310651/buy-a-mclaren-f1-for-just-35m/

>8^)
ER

does anyone know if it has sold yet?

It is on the list for tomorrow night's auction - fairly late in the running order. They will sell lots #77-162 tomorrow and the F1 is #145 on that list.

The auction starts at 6:00PM PST and you can watch it live online here:

http://www.goodingco.com/auction/auction.g&c

Gooding & Co had difficulty moving many of their lots tonight - only a small number of cars hit or exceeded their pre-sale estimates, and they also had a large number of No Sales where they apparently just missed the mark on the reserve.

The F1 may still perform well, but I wouldn't expect another record price like we saw in 2008 at RM London for #065.

>8^)
ER

Auction begins in about 15 minutes. The F1 probably won't cross the block until the 9pm hour, local time.

I'm going to record the bidding for the F1 - it won't be pretty as I'm basically going to point my digital camera at the screen on my laptop and press record (:screwy:) but at least those who can't watch it live will have something to see later on. :)

During last night's auction Gooding had 20 out of 74 lots go unsold due to not meeting their reserves so it will be interesting to see if that trend continues this evening. Something tells me there just might be enough interest in the F1. Also I don't think there are any other auctions running in Monterey tonight competing for people's money - last night they ran in parallel with RM's and Russo & Steele's sales.

>8^)
ER

I'm just getting a Gooding & Co logo with sound, it supposedly started 10 mins ago. Working for others?

Its going now!

They announced a delayed start because the Pebble Beach awards ceremony ran late.

>8^)
ER

They are two lots away from the F1.

>8^)
ER

3.25m US$!

Sold - hammer price $3.25M + 10% commission - WOW! :sunglasse

>8^)
ER

Here's my crappy video of the bidding:

IZxW8O7W2Hs

>8^)
ER

Here's my crappy video of the bidding:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZxW8O7W2Hs

>8^)
ER
Thanks for the video. I had wanted to see it live, but I missed it last night. :thumbsup:

No surprises here:

http://www.sportscardigest.com/wp-content/uploads/LOT_146_1995_McLaren_F1FINAL.jpg (http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/08/02goodingpbauction2010.jpg)

>8^)
ER

Is that you Eric in the F1--we all know it is--lol

I happened to take some photos of this car pre-auction. Will post the rest at a later date. (Pretty boring photos I might add)
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/361/359v.jpg (http://img90.imageshack.us/i/359v.jpg/)

great!

From DJ Dirk´s gallery


http://www.supercars.net/gallery/119513/2494/954800.jpg

http://www.supercars.net/gallery/119513/2494/955174.jpg

And the North American launch of the McLaren MP4-12C as a bonus±
http://www.supercars.net/gallery/119513/2494/3.html

From SportsCarDigest:

http://www.sportscardigest.com/wp-content/uploads/DSC_1941-620x411.jpg

1995 McLaren F1 ; S/N 062; Magnesium Silver/Black; Estimate $2,500,000 - $3,500,000; Unrestored original, 2+ condition; Hammered Sold at $3,250,000 plus commission of 10.00%; Final Price $3,575,000 – Factory luggage, tools and service records. U.S. and California legal with updated cats to pass current California smog tests. First owned by Larry Ellison of Oracle, 3,242 miles only and, if anything, better than new. Stalled at $2.6 MM, then quickly by $100k increments to $3 MM. To hammer's fall by $50K increments. This is a serious price reflecting this car's unusual ability to be owned and driven in California. It nearly matches RM's sale of 065 in London in 2008 for $3,944,558, itself a market-altering transaction. McLaren has worked hard to maintain the secondary market values of their F1s and they must be very satisfied at how successful they have been. – Lot # 146, Gooding & Company, Pebble Beach

>8^)
ER

Interesting with only 5216 km on the clock ; how owners do to make these low numbers with the most reliable supercar ?

Phil

Great set of photos from erdero :sunglasse

http://a.imageshack.us/img838/5936/20100816img1977.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img265/8231/20100816img1979.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img822/2750/20100816img1983.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img829/1549/20100816img1986.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img844/3118/20100816img1987.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img838/5272/20100816img1990.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img695/4214/20100816img1991.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img137/4919/20100816img1992.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img821/4981/20100816img1994.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img525/9463/20100816img1995.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img825/6125/20100816img1997.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img827/4092/20100816img1998.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img713/3316/20100816img2003.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img823/7100/20100816img2005.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img72/1858/20100816img2007.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img693/9353/20100816img2009.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img413/7739/20100816img2012.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img844/241/20100816img2343.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img715/9867/20100816img2346.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img824/7679/20100816img2347.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img26/36/20100816img2348.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img338/8536/20100816img2349.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img686/8599/20100816img2353.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img826/5404/20100816img2356.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img576/5141/20100816img2369.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img828/1245/20100816img2358.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img535/7294/20100816img2362.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img413/5048/20100816img2363.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img838/160/20100816img2364.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img687/1394/20100816img2366.jpg

>8^)
ER

Great set of photos from erdero :sunglasse


Great photos indeed. :bigthumb: Nice details, great frames. Wow.

3 questions:
- On the central instrument part of the dash, the thin openings along the top; are those air vents?
- The L+E switches in the door frame, what are they for? My brain automatically said "Left, and R...wait a minute" :D. Perhaps for opening the 2 engine bay covers?
- Are there any closer shots of the stickers at the top of the air ducts (4th-last picture)?

Yes on the vents.

Levers: L = Luggage, E = Engine

The E lever on either side is used to open only the upper engine cover. Once that is open then you can raise the rear cover above the catalysts. It has some integrated latches that are released only when the upper engine cover has been opened.

To make it more clear, see the arrows in these images below. The red arrows in the first image point to the little rollers that the upper engine cover presses down on to lock the rear cover. They are spring loaded and so they release automatically when the upper engine cover is raised. In the second image the red arrows show the pivot point for those little arms with the rollers. You can then follow the small metal rod forward to the actual locking mechanism which is marked with the blue arrows. The green arrows on the engine cover are pointing at the catches that hold the rear cover closed. I added two more photos from Mr Hurst that happened to show a more detailed shot of the roller/arm and metal rod for the locking mechanism.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20J/th_rear_engine_cover_a.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20J/rear_engine_cover_a.jpg) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20J/th_rear_engine_cover_b.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20J/rear_engine_cover_b.jpg) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20J/th_rear_engine_cover_c.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20J/rear_engine_cover_c.jpg) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20J/th_rear_engine_cover_d.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20J/rear_engine_cover_d.jpg)

He didn't share any better shots of those stickers - but just so it is clear those are not standard issue from McLaren. Those are added by the RI/ICI who performed the steps necessary to import the cars to the USA - in this case J.K. Technologies. The one in the lower right corner is the one that certifies the car's California emissions which are the most stringent standards here in the USA. Here's a simliar sticker on #028:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20E/photo_7.jpg

>8^)
ER

With the high risk of sounding like many others: It's amazing how one always gets a quick and detailed answer here.

:bigthumb: Thanks Erik!

I wasn't sure about those stickers. I couldn't recall seeing them before, but I may as well been lacking attention to the details ;).

great detail shots!