Seeking help and info on this mclaren
V12Unleash
05-13-2003, 01:02 AM
Hi guys, this is my first post, heard this place from a friend and i want to first of all want to say that you ladz does a AMAZING JOB here!!!
i have a question with this particular mclaren, it is in a lot of magazines and websites, and seem like an mclaren officical picture too. but none of the production mclaren are like that (different front intake, mirrors are high up, the rear is a little different too). and it is none of the XP prototype too.....
so just wondering if any one can help.....
cheers boys
i have a question with this particular mclaren, it is in a lot of magazines and websites, and seem like an mclaren officical picture too. but none of the production mclaren are like that (different front intake, mirrors are high up, the rear is a little different too). and it is none of the XP prototype too.....
so just wondering if any one can help.....
cheers boys
V12Unleash
05-13-2003, 01:03 AM
this mclaren (i think all you guys might know about it) :)
Christoph
05-13-2003, 05:22 AM
Hi
I'm not sure but its possible this is the private car from ron dennis. the mirrors are one of the few options (costs 20'000 pounds.....) and rons own car has this color with the special mirrors.
this car is also on the front cover from the book "driving ambition". one of the best books every published!
I'm not sure but its possible this is the private car from ron dennis. the mirrors are one of the few options (costs 20'000 pounds.....) and rons own car has this color with the special mirrors.
this car is also on the front cover from the book "driving ambition". one of the best books every published!
faisalkhan
05-13-2003, 12:23 PM
Can't be Ron Dennis' car, unless he had more than one McLaren F1. Nick Mason bought his red HDF from Ron Dennis.
Those mirrors were a design study but not put into production because they took a lot of reinforcing to stay on at high speeds. I don't know of a single customer car that has them.
Anyone know if these mirrors exist on a running car?
Those mirrors were a design study but not put into production because they took a lot of reinforcing to stay on at high speeds. I don't know of a single customer car that has them.
Anyone know if these mirrors exist on a running car?
Peloton25
05-13-2003, 12:48 PM
That's the Clinic Model - a non-running mock up of the F1 that was used for publicity photos and at the car's introduction in Monaco in 1992. Do a search in this forum for "Clinic Model" and you will find more information.
>8^)
ER
>8^)
ER
Peloton25
05-13-2003, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by faisalkhan
Can't be Ron Dennis' car, unless he had more than one McLaren F1. Nick Mason bought his red HDF from Ron Dennis.
Those mirrors were a design study but not put into production because they took a lot of reinforcing to stay on at high speeds. I don't know of a single customer car that has them.
Anyone know if these mirrors exist on a running car?
Yes - if you have a copy of "Driving Ambition" you can see that the car they follow the build process on - a 1997 F1 roadcar #71 I believe, painted Historic Orange - had those mirrors at the time of delivery.
>8^)
ER
Can't be Ron Dennis' car, unless he had more than one McLaren F1. Nick Mason bought his red HDF from Ron Dennis.
Those mirrors were a design study but not put into production because they took a lot of reinforcing to stay on at high speeds. I don't know of a single customer car that has them.
Anyone know if these mirrors exist on a running car?
Yes - if you have a copy of "Driving Ambition" you can see that the car they follow the build process on - a 1997 F1 roadcar #71 I believe, painted Historic Orange - had those mirrors at the time of delivery.
>8^)
ER
XOTech
05-23-2003, 03:40 AM
Peloton correctly described the car in the picture you posted, V12Unleash. One of the most attractive features of the Clinic model was the high mirrors. On a design perspective (aesthetically) it is a very pleasing and actually, a very functional location for them. The problem lies not in a technical or mechanical issue, but rather a certification issue.
As Peloton pointed out, there are other cars that were produced and some that were retrofitted with the high-mirror configuration.
There is no problem with keeping them on regardless of the speed. The problem lies in the acceptance of many nations with regard to their homologation laws and requirements for certification. In the US, the high-mirrors would not be accepted for importation. We all know that McLaren Cars, Ltd rather quickly decided that the car would not be destined for the US as a new car. The requirements weighed on McLaren Cars were far to costly and involved to merit the sale of only a few of the cars. This is the precise reason that Dick Fritz of Amerispec used a loophole in the importation law to bring a few in later. We all know the details of that effort. If not, there are several very details threads on this subject.
Despite the decision to not pursue the US as a market, there were a majority of other countries that also would not allow the high-mirror configuration.
Once a car is in a country legally, either by original importation as new car or later imported (as all such cars here in the US now), it is nearly impossible and not worth-while to check the minute details as to whether or not the mirrors are properly in place. As such, a few owners have opted to retrofit their cars with the high-mirror layout.
As Peloton pointed out, there are other cars that were produced and some that were retrofitted with the high-mirror configuration.
There is no problem with keeping them on regardless of the speed. The problem lies in the acceptance of many nations with regard to their homologation laws and requirements for certification. In the US, the high-mirrors would not be accepted for importation. We all know that McLaren Cars, Ltd rather quickly decided that the car would not be destined for the US as a new car. The requirements weighed on McLaren Cars were far to costly and involved to merit the sale of only a few of the cars. This is the precise reason that Dick Fritz of Amerispec used a loophole in the importation law to bring a few in later. We all know the details of that effort. If not, there are several very details threads on this subject.
Despite the decision to not pursue the US as a market, there were a majority of other countries that also would not allow the high-mirror configuration.
Once a car is in a country legally, either by original importation as new car or later imported (as all such cars here in the US now), it is nearly impossible and not worth-while to check the minute details as to whether or not the mirrors are properly in place. As such, a few owners have opted to retrofit their cars with the high-mirror layout.
faisalkhan
05-23-2003, 03:45 AM
He may have been leading me down a garden path, but I did ask about the mirrors, and I was told by Mike Sopp (McLaren Mgr. of Worldwide Customer Service) that the high mirrors were dropped because of the reinforcing required to keep them on at high speeds, which raised costs.
He did mention that they can be fitted at extra cost.
I do believe XOTech in that the high mirrors are also not compliant with many countries' requirements.
Rgds,
Faisal.
He did mention that they can be fitted at extra cost.
I do believe XOTech in that the high mirrors are also not compliant with many countries' requirements.
Rgds,
Faisal.
XOTech
05-23-2003, 04:15 AM
I am not one to call anyone wrong when told something in earnest, but I am willing to do the research to know precisely. In all my years in dealing with McLarens, I have seen 3 cars with the high-mirror configuration. Each of them, being my perferred choice in position, was a matter of interest to me. Upon inspection of cars with both configuration, it struck me as slightly odd that the cars with the lower-mounted position to be slightly less stable than the high-mounted position. The high mirrors proved to be very stout.
I did not have the impression that the lower mounted mirrors were in any way of poor quality that they would fall off or fail in any way, but simply that they had more "play" in them than the high version.
Aerodynamically, the high mirrors are of smaller cross-sectional area and overall surface area than the lower mirrors. This would lend to a slightly lower drag contribution. Also, the lower position promotes a large amount of turbulent air over critical areas of the body, specifically over the rear of the car and the rear wing.
I cannot attest to the noticeable differential of feel in the McLaren, but I have tested race cars in terms of this very thing, mirror placement, vent placement, etc. with regard to aerodynamic impact on the vehicle.
Suffice to say, the high-mounted position is more aerodynamically sound. Let it be said that the high mirror also produces turbulent air following it, but its flow as it moves aft does not dramatically affect (negatively) the stability of the car.
I did not have the impression that the lower mounted mirrors were in any way of poor quality that they would fall off or fail in any way, but simply that they had more "play" in them than the high version.
Aerodynamically, the high mirrors are of smaller cross-sectional area and overall surface area than the lower mirrors. This would lend to a slightly lower drag contribution. Also, the lower position promotes a large amount of turbulent air over critical areas of the body, specifically over the rear of the car and the rear wing.
I cannot attest to the noticeable differential of feel in the McLaren, but I have tested race cars in terms of this very thing, mirror placement, vent placement, etc. with regard to aerodynamic impact on the vehicle.
Suffice to say, the high-mounted position is more aerodynamically sound. Let it be said that the high mirror also produces turbulent air following it, but its flow as it moves aft does not dramatically affect (negatively) the stability of the car.
drewwtms
05-23-2003, 12:51 PM
Not to start a huge debate here but aren't there something like 20 F1s in the US? This would account for almost a third of total road car construction. For McLaren to decide against US homologation is, in my opinion, a big oops. And if 1996-later McLaren F1s ever successfully meet regulations the number will obviously grow.
Maybe they lacked a dealer/service network in the States (Europeans only have to drive across the Channel). Or maybe since US laws were going to be radically tightened soon after the car's release they decided not to go to the trouble.
It just seems strange that the car was never intended for US consumption and yet a large portion of them are here now.
-D. Drew Ingram
Maybe they lacked a dealer/service network in the States (Europeans only have to drive across the Channel). Or maybe since US laws were going to be radically tightened soon after the car's release they decided not to go to the trouble.
It just seems strange that the car was never intended for US consumption and yet a large portion of them are here now.
-D. Drew Ingram
faisalkhan
05-23-2003, 01:03 PM
Drew, it makes sound business sense. They sold every single car they made, without incurring the cost of US federalization.
It is an additional cost borne by the US owners who bring their cars in, not by the factory.
Rgds,
Faisal.
It is an additional cost borne by the US owners who bring their cars in, not by the factory.
Rgds,
Faisal.
Peloton25
05-23-2003, 03:26 PM
Off topic, sorry.....
...but the Honda NR750 rocks!!
Drool!!
http://www.v-four.freeserve.co.uk/images/nr750.jpg
Oval piston V-4 w/32 valves, dual connecting rods, single-sided swingarm, an eight into four into two into one into two exhaust - wowsers, a rev range beyone 17,500rpm, and of course those high mirrors you referenced -- what a bike! Oh yeah, and a price tag close to $60,000 :eek:
http://www.motorplus-online.com/artikel/3/edisi157/IMAGES/e01573041021.jpg http://he.honda.ca/motorcycles/gifs/classic/oval-pistontechnology.gif
I love this bike - apparently they only made a few hundred though, most of which remain in Japan with only a few exports to European countries. It wasn't the fastest bike by any standard, but it was probably the most technologically advanced motorcycle ever built.
= = = = =
Back on the topic of the McLaren F1 mirrors. Does anyone know which car the McLaren's low placed mirrors were borrowed from? Actually, they may even use the exact same part straight from the parts bin. I'll give a hint - it was a ~$20,000 sports car from the early '90s. Any guesses??
>8^)
ER
...but the Honda NR750 rocks!!
Drool!!
http://www.v-four.freeserve.co.uk/images/nr750.jpg
Oval piston V-4 w/32 valves, dual connecting rods, single-sided swingarm, an eight into four into two into one into two exhaust - wowsers, a rev range beyone 17,500rpm, and of course those high mirrors you referenced -- what a bike! Oh yeah, and a price tag close to $60,000 :eek:
http://www.motorplus-online.com/artikel/3/edisi157/IMAGES/e01573041021.jpg http://he.honda.ca/motorcycles/gifs/classic/oval-pistontechnology.gif
I love this bike - apparently they only made a few hundred though, most of which remain in Japan with only a few exports to European countries. It wasn't the fastest bike by any standard, but it was probably the most technologically advanced motorcycle ever built.
= = = = =
Back on the topic of the McLaren F1 mirrors. Does anyone know which car the McLaren's low placed mirrors were borrowed from? Actually, they may even use the exact same part straight from the parts bin. I'll give a hint - it was a ~$20,000 sports car from the early '90s. Any guesses??
>8^)
ER
tvrfreak
05-23-2003, 04:14 PM
Nice pics. They made 250 of these bikes, and the proceeds from the auction sale of the first one went to benefit UNICEF. I was obsessed with this bike when it came out...it had a digital instrumentation, a special key, and nicasil-coated oval pistons to reduce frictional losses. And the oval shape was Honda's attempt to increase the volume (displacement) without increasing the friction due to increased piston ring contact. Their F1 cars at the time had oval pistons. Very exotic!
True story--I was in Paris one summer (think it was 1994) and went to a motorcycle store to check out Euro bikes. I thought there was an NR750 parked outside, next to a van, but when I got up close to it, I saw that it was a VFR 750 disguised to look like an NR750. I started talking to the guy who had pulled up in the van, and he told me that it was being used in the filming of some movie, along with a real NR750. I asked him where the real thing was...it was inside the van!!!! I still have the pictures. What an experience!
If you wanna see a real NR 750, there's one on display at the national museum in Belgium. There's three in the states, at least.
Another absolutely AMAZING bike is the Britten V-twin. It swept every race when it came out, except one when it retired early due to some electrical problems. But it had been leading until its retirement! To me, the Britten is the McLaren of the motorcycle world. There's only 10 worldwide. One's on display with the Guggenheim's Art of the Motorcycle Exhibition. I don't know if the exhibition is still going on, but it was at the Venetian in Las Vegas last year, and the Bilbao in Spain the year before. Another one is on display at the main museum in Wellington, NZ. I gotta dig up and scan my pictures of that one too. I trekked all the way there just to see this bike, and it was well worth it!
The mirrors...VW Corrado? Some Renault? Something like that, but I can't remember!
True story--I was in Paris one summer (think it was 1994) and went to a motorcycle store to check out Euro bikes. I thought there was an NR750 parked outside, next to a van, but when I got up close to it, I saw that it was a VFR 750 disguised to look like an NR750. I started talking to the guy who had pulled up in the van, and he told me that it was being used in the filming of some movie, along with a real NR750. I asked him where the real thing was...it was inside the van!!!! I still have the pictures. What an experience!
If you wanna see a real NR 750, there's one on display at the national museum in Belgium. There's three in the states, at least.
Another absolutely AMAZING bike is the Britten V-twin. It swept every race when it came out, except one when it retired early due to some electrical problems. But it had been leading until its retirement! To me, the Britten is the McLaren of the motorcycle world. There's only 10 worldwide. One's on display with the Guggenheim's Art of the Motorcycle Exhibition. I don't know if the exhibition is still going on, but it was at the Venetian in Las Vegas last year, and the Bilbao in Spain the year before. Another one is on display at the main museum in Wellington, NZ. I gotta dig up and scan my pictures of that one too. I trekked all the way there just to see this bike, and it was well worth it!
The mirrors...VW Corrado? Some Renault? Something like that, but I can't remember!
Peloton25
05-23-2003, 07:18 PM
The Corrado is correct :cool:
I still want to see a road car up close to see if the mirror housing retains the VWAG part number stamp. :D
It's a shame that no one here can run to their garage and check for me. ;)
>8^)
ER
I still want to see a road car up close to see if the mirror housing retains the VWAG part number stamp. :D
It's a shame that no one here can run to their garage and check for me. ;)
>8^)
ER
faisalkhan
05-23-2003, 08:23 PM
I just ran and checked a friend's car...the numbers are there!
Rgds,
Faisal.
Rgds,
Faisal.
Peloton25
05-23-2003, 08:25 PM
Haha - that's too funny man!
Next time you run to your friends house, take me with you!! :D
Which car belongs to your friend btw? Is it one that we have seen photos of?
>8^)
ER
Next time you run to your friends house, take me with you!! :D
Which car belongs to your friend btw? Is it one that we have seen photos of?
>8^)
ER
faisalkhan
05-23-2003, 08:36 PM
No, he keeps it pretty quiet and does not want to publicize it. Incidentally, there's yet ANOTHER McLaren coming to my neighborhood (it will live 15 miles away)!
By the way, the TVR Cerbera uses Corrado mirrors as well!
Any more McLarens, and I won't need to ever get one myself.
:)
Rgds,
Faisal.
By the way, the TVR Cerbera uses Corrado mirrors as well!
Any more McLarens, and I won't need to ever get one myself.
:)
Rgds,
Faisal.
Peloton25
05-23-2003, 10:18 PM
Is the "yet ANOTHER McLaren" you refer to the red F1 road car that is supposedly coming from Japan through the former Ferrari of Los Gatos? Because if not, then add that one to the list as well.
Man, I need to move to the Bay area if I'm ever going to have a chance at seeing a road car in the flesh.
>8^)
ER
Man, I need to move to the Bay area if I'm ever going to have a chance at seeing a road car in the flesh.
>8^)
ER
tvrfreak
05-24-2003, 02:57 PM
I believe the red McLaren you are referring to is the yellow one that was imported by Symbolic Motors. It is being repainted in the original Lark livery (red and black), right XOtech?
Symbolic used to own Ferrari of Los Gatos. But now it's called Bentley of Silicon Valley, and I don't know who owns it. But if they are going to display the McLaren, then you can be sure that they are still owned by Symbolic.
The one coming to Los Altos is a different car.
Rgds,
Faisal.
Symbolic used to own Ferrari of Los Gatos. But now it's called Bentley of Silicon Valley, and I don't know who owns it. But if they are going to display the McLaren, then you can be sure that they are still owned by Symbolic.
The one coming to Los Altos is a different car.
Rgds,
Faisal.
Porsche
05-24-2003, 10:10 PM
Any chances of pics of these Mcalren( s) in your neighbourhood?
faisalkhan
05-25-2003, 12:56 AM
Of the seven or eight cars in this area, I only know 2 owners personally, I just know about the others. I don't think any of the owners would want unauthorized pictures of them on the web. If I ever see them in public and take pictures along with everyone else, then I will certainly put those pictures up. But even the mechanics who work on their cars are not allowed to talk about either the owners or the cars.
But there's nothing unique about the cars I have seen...they look like every other regular roadcar out there.
But there's nothing unique about the cars I have seen...they look like every other regular roadcar out there.
Porsche
05-25-2003, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by faisalkhan
Of the seven or eight cars in this area, I only know 2 owners personally, I just know about the others. I don't think any of the owners would want unauthorized pictures of them on the web. If I ever see them in public and take pictures along with everyone else, then I will certainly put those pictures up. But even the mechanics who work on their cars are not allowed to talk about either the owners or the cars.
But there's nothing unique about the cars I have seen...they look like every other regular roadcar out there.
Hmmm, sticky situation, 7 or 8 in your AREA? though! WOW, that's quite 7% or 8% of the Mclaren population only minutes from your doorstep. well I don't want to be annoying and ask you to ask the owners if you cna go out and take pictures, but new pics of Mclarens are always recieved so well by everyone, everywhere.
Of the seven or eight cars in this area, I only know 2 owners personally, I just know about the others. I don't think any of the owners would want unauthorized pictures of them on the web. If I ever see them in public and take pictures along with everyone else, then I will certainly put those pictures up. But even the mechanics who work on their cars are not allowed to talk about either the owners or the cars.
But there's nothing unique about the cars I have seen...they look like every other regular roadcar out there.
Hmmm, sticky situation, 7 or 8 in your AREA? though! WOW, that's quite 7% or 8% of the Mclaren population only minutes from your doorstep. well I don't want to be annoying and ask you to ask the owners if you cna go out and take pictures, but new pics of Mclarens are always recieved so well by everyone, everywhere.
Peloton25
05-27-2003, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by tvrfreak
I believe the red McLaren you are referring to is the yellow one that was imported by Symbolic Motors. It is being repainted in the original Lark livery (red and black), right XOtech?
Symbolic used to own Ferrari of Los Gatos. But now it's called Bentley of Silicon Valley, and I don't know who owns it. But if they are going to display the McLaren, then you can be sure that they are still owned by Symbolic.
The one coming to Los Altos is a different car.
Rgds,
Faisal.
Actually, I had heard that a red F1 road car was coming to the Los Gatos area via what is now Bentley of SV. Maybe that's incorrect or someone had the wrong info, but I don't think they were confused by the long tail GTR that originally wore the LARK livery. You never know though with the rumors that circulate. I guess I'll believe it when I see some photos. Keep that camera of your's handy man. ;)
>8^)
ER
I believe the red McLaren you are referring to is the yellow one that was imported by Symbolic Motors. It is being repainted in the original Lark livery (red and black), right XOtech?
Symbolic used to own Ferrari of Los Gatos. But now it's called Bentley of Silicon Valley, and I don't know who owns it. But if they are going to display the McLaren, then you can be sure that they are still owned by Symbolic.
The one coming to Los Altos is a different car.
Rgds,
Faisal.
Actually, I had heard that a red F1 road car was coming to the Los Gatos area via what is now Bentley of SV. Maybe that's incorrect or someone had the wrong info, but I don't think they were confused by the long tail GTR that originally wore the LARK livery. You never know though with the rumors that circulate. I guess I'll believe it when I see some photos. Keep that camera of your's handy man. ;)
>8^)
ER
faisalkhan
05-27-2003, 03:52 PM
Peloton, the non-longtail one coming to Los Altos is red. I didn't know that Symbolic was involved in the deal. I am sure we are talking about the same car. It is a roadcar, without the HDF package.
Peloton25
05-27-2003, 06:34 PM
Well, they might not actually be involved in that deal. Bentley of Silicon Valley might not be either. The person who mentioned it said that he got that info from them.
He also said the car was coming from Japan. Does that jive with what you know as well?
>8^)
ER
He also said the car was coming from Japan. Does that jive with what you know as well?
>8^)
ER
tvrfreak
05-27-2003, 06:43 PM
No, it's definitely not from Japan. But the longtail that Symbolic has is from Japan. So maybe he is getting the two mixed up? How much of a car buff is he? And how well does he know McLarens?
Rgds,
Faisal.
Rgds,
Faisal.
tvrfreak
05-28-2003, 04:07 AM
Just realized that the MV Augusta F4 also has turn signals built into its mirrors. Sexy bike. And so does the Ducati 999, but it's still sinfully ugly!
mini magic
06-05-2003, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by faisalkhan
I just ran and checked a friend's car...the numbers are there!
Rgds,
Faisal.
do u man friend as in, hang out together, or like buisness associate?
I just ran and checked a friend's car...the numbers are there!
Rgds,
Faisal.
do u man friend as in, hang out together, or like buisness associate?
XOTech
06-11-2003, 02:36 AM
Faisal and others,
The information I have is consistant with what Faisal has indicated. The longtail that is currently being promoted by Symbolic is the previous Lark car. It is currently being repainted to meticulous color matched perfection, as I am told, to the original colors when it was campaigned as the Lark car. The colors are an off Red/Pink and a dark Grey/Charcoal. I am told that the car should be done in a couple weeks. The red car that is coming in is not from Japan. It is a roadcar without the Downforce kit as Faisal mentioned.
Sorry for the slow response. I don't get back to the forum as much as I used to. However, I am still here. :)
The information I have is consistant with what Faisal has indicated. The longtail that is currently being promoted by Symbolic is the previous Lark car. It is currently being repainted to meticulous color matched perfection, as I am told, to the original colors when it was campaigned as the Lark car. The colors are an off Red/Pink and a dark Grey/Charcoal. I am told that the car should be done in a couple weeks. The red car that is coming in is not from Japan. It is a roadcar without the Downforce kit as Faisal mentioned.
Sorry for the slow response. I don't get back to the forum as much as I used to. However, I am still here. :)
andybee
08-21-2003, 07:06 AM
just to let you know. The high level mirrors that are available for production F1's are from a BMW Z1
mini magic
08-22-2003, 10:53 AM
just to let you know. The high level mirrors that are available for production F1's are from a BMW Z1
thought so, i was reading an article on it and i noticed that.
thought so, i was reading an article on it and i noticed that.
Automotive Network, Inc., Copyright ©2025