Getting ready for a new engine

So, a month ago, I was doing an HPDE at my local track (Harris Hill Road in San Marcos, TX), and about 5 minutes into my first session, the gear lever turned to mush. So, off to the shop it went, and while it was there being fixed (it was just the roll pin, so the transmission itself was undamaged), we got everything freshened up to handle more power (including fixing the rear end, which is now whisper quiet, and throwing in a Steeda short-shifter, nice and tight).

So, we're looking at a custom engine build. I'm keen to stay with the 302-based format, primarily for weight savings over a 351 block, and my builder has a strong preference for going to a 331, rather than a 347, for reliability. We're shooting for an honest 500HP at the flywheel.

In my dreamy little head, I love the idea of going for a high-revving moderate torque approach - a combination of the sheer sound of a small-block pushrod V8 at 8,000+ rpm, and the reduced risk of twisting up the chassis and cracking the windshield.

I won't be using it for endurance racing, and truthfully, the engine only gets a couple of hours per month, so as long is it's not too short a time between rebuilds, I can live with the shorter service life relative to a low-rpm solution.

What do y'all think?

I'm biased!

Brian is biased. He likes small block 427 strokers. Who wouldn't? He has had a few issues with transmissions and clutches, but nothing that can't be solved with a few(?) bucks.

Any SBF stroker at 8000 is a time bomb, not a rebuild, looking to happen unless you want to spend thousands on exotic valve trains, dry sumps, internal balancing, etc. I think Kel has the approach you are looking for by keeping it below 6500 and still getting copious (but not ludicrous) power. Pick his brain. Besides 500+ horse power in this chassis results in lifting a front wheel out of the corners if you can get it to bite (like Darrell Boogety). The frame, suspension and tire costs will mount quickly as well and there is no hope for that Tremec 3550 you got. If you can get 400 to 450 hp out of a 331 stroker at 6000-6500, I think the OH WHOW factor would more than double your current and you'd have the low maintenance and reliability you want. I think you'd need a budget of at least $20K to just get an 8000 motor and needed upgrades sorted out the first year. A small block making that 400-450 at 6000 or so will be screaming the song and keep the rear tires highly challenged. Just my humble opinion:2cents:

Mike

Building and 8000 rpm small block is doable, but why? You'd be looking at a very short race service life and headaches with re-gearing the trans or rear end to make use of it. Keep in mind that very sophisticated engines such as Porsche GT3 cup cars have that kinda redline with a 40h service life.

It cost $10-20k to make a good 302-351 race engine and most of that to freshen one.

450hp in the GTS cars is plenty noisy and lots of fun with a good ballance of durability (100h for us) limited to 6400rpm.

I'd guess you would get plenty of capability at 400-450hp (6500 rpm) and with slicks your times could be competitive.

You will need to do some reinforcing to handle the slicks and >hp too.

Enjoy,
Kevin
GTSx2 GTRA

OK - you talked me down ;-) I'll go for torque, and avoid the high-rpm stuff.

Thanks (somewhat sheepishly).

Still. Would've been awesome, right?

Screw these guys.... build a 9000 rpm solid lifter 289!!! There's a guy that brings a classic Mustang road race car out to VIR and it's the coolest sounding thing ever. They turn near 9000 rpm down the straights.

Oh and Danny Poppls ST1 C5 turns 8200 rpms and if you were't looking at the car you'd think it was some type of Ferrari.

^^^ See, this is the problem with you lot. This is equivalent to breaking up with your girlfriend, and *right* at the moment you convinced yourself it was the right idea, she says "I guess now I'll have to find someone else to help me explore my bisexual side..."

I was sold. I was walking out of the RPM Shoppe, down the street to Torque Sensations, and then you dragged me back into it. Bastard. :evillol:

Lol

I mean lower RPM = less maintenance and more durability and generally less expense. The C5R and C6Rs won LeMans all those years turning 5400 rpms max.

But who cares about that :p

Danny's car HARDLY sounds like a Ferrari!! He also works as a head mech. at a chevy dealer in Cincinnati.

^^^ See, this is the problem with you lot. This is equivalent to breaking up with your girlfriend, and *right* at the moment you convinced yourself it was the right idea, she says "I guess now I'll have to find someone else to help me explore my bisexual side..."

I was sold. I was walking out of the RPM Shoppe, down the street to Torque Sensations, and then you dragged me back into it. Bastard. :evillol:

Bottom line here is that if you have the budget you can do almost anything with the car, which is part of what I love about them.

You could easily engineer the car to handle a NASCAR spec engine (830hp 540ftlbs of tq and 9000rpm capability............if you have the $$ to feed the engine and keep the chassis together.

If you dont have a $25K kitty to get the mods started and $10 - 15K+ per year for routine maintenance, then torque over rpm would be the way to go.

Kel.

Danny's car HARDLY sounds like a Ferrari!! He also works as a head mech. at a chevy dealer in Cincinnati.
Last year at VIR at the UTCC you could hear it the entire way around the track because it was that distinct. Have you heard it since he did the single side exhaust? They created a false floor on the passenger side so they could merge it and make a true side exhaust by cutting a hole in the frame rail and rocker. The merged exhaust gives it a wonderful blended/exotic tone. He was on track w/ a F430 challenge and his car sounded better/more exotic that the F-car!

People in the bleechers were all asking what was in it and if they couldn't see it they were wondering what it was :runaround:

He said he wanted to rev it to 8500 rpm, but the factory PCM tables only go to 8k so the car starts to freak out when you get much over that.

Last year at VIR at the UTCC you could hear it the entire way around the track because it was that distinct. Have you heard it since he did the single side exhaust? They created a false floor on the passenger side so they could merge it and make a true side exhaust by cutting a hole in the frame rail and rocker. The merged exhaust gives it a wonderful blended/exotic tone. He was on track w/ a F430 challenge and his car sounded better/more exotic that the F-car!

People in the bleechers were all asking what was in it and if they couldn't see it they were wondering what it was :runaround:

He said he wanted to rev it to 8500 rpm, but the factory PCM tables only go to 8k so the car starts to freak out when you get much over that.

I keep telling you guys to try a merged single exhaust system.........!!

Cant say I have had anyone tell me that my car sounds like a Ferrari though Brian........have to confess that I did have one guy think it was a rotary powered car though, go figure. But yes you can pick my car anywhere on the track even if there are 25 - 30 other cars out there as it has a very distinctive note.

Perhaps when I start to give the 369 engine a bit more of a rev I may get the Ferrari enquiries?!

Kel.

I think it's more the RPM than anything. On my old Z06 I had the rev limiter set at 7100 rpms and when you'd get north of 6500 it really took on a different tone. It sounded really exotic up there.

I am considering selling the engine out of my car.:runaround:

I have the identical setup to Brian... 351 windsor block, 427 stroker, dry sump, with a "restrictor" carb (390). Gobs of torque, equal HP. This is 700+ HP, 7500 rpm capable engine that I run at 550 HP and 6500 rpm Max === long service life!! Not to mention... if you want some extra HP you can just bolt on a 750 carb and rock it out at 650 HP!:evillol:

I'd sell it with all of the trimmings so you can just drop it in and connect the plumbing. This is a proven engine, and it ROCKS.

if you (or anyone else) are seriously interested, call me
561-719-4387