I thought it was liberation?

Nope, NOW it's an occupation. :rolleyes:

US Seeks UN Approval for Iraq Occupation

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20030510/ap_on_re_mi_ea/un_iraq_sanctions

Discuss

i thought this had been gone over before? it will be like japan and germany. occupy for a couple to a few years to establish government and voting so another dictator dopesnt tak epower help them set up oil buisiness and then leave.

-GTi-VR6_A3

Probably leave after George Bush Jr has been voted out of office......occupation until the next election.....

Originally posted by GTi-VR6_A3
i thought this had been gone over before? it will be like japan and germany. occupy for a couple to a few years to establish government and voting so another dictator dopesnt tak epower help them set up oil buisiness and then leave.

-GTi-VR6_A3

The U.S. still has a military prescence in both Germany and Japan.When you say establish 'government and voting', presumably you mean a U.S. approved yes-man rather than the Islamic state desired by the Iraqis.When you say help them set up their oil business,I guess you don't see the continued occupation of Iraq as an ideal opportunity to channel all oil development work into the hands of those oil companies that contribute so generously to the Republican party coffers,and ensure that Israel gets all the oil that it wants by building an unneccesary export pipeline to the north,when Iraq has a perfectly viable deepwater port in the south...........

My point was the US kept telling everyone how it wasn't an occupation,it was "liberation", and NOW suddenly they're calling it an occupation.

I think only the gullible will believe that it was "liberation". Most who opposed the war saw it as occupation, not "liberation". There's no such thing as going to war in another country to "liberate" it, as history has often shown.

So far the only time I've read "occupation" is in the news articles. I haven't found it in the resoultion. Though I am still reading through it. Beaurocratic speak is tough to read. As for the pipeline, the northern oil wells can be piped north faster then they can be piped to the south as far as distance goes. Weather that is the case or not I don't know nor do I care and that horse has been beaten into glue.

The arguement about setting up a govrenment that the Iraqis want is still underway. Having an Islamic state is not a problem. Having a secular Islamic state would be a problem. If a Sheite is in charge of a secular state the Kurds will want a seperate state of their own. Turkey will be scared of that (because they don't want their own Kurdish people to do the same). Unless their is representative form of goverment (democratic, parlimentary or whatever) Iraq won't hold together short of putting another dictator in charge.

Because the entire country was built by arbitrary lines after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, its amazing the entire region hasn't broke out into war to redefine the boarders in a more social/religous division. Think about Pakistan and India. Pakistan was part of the arbitrary lines the British Empire created when it was part of their commonwealth. Look at whats happening in China today. Tibet and Fromosia (Taiwan) would be their own country if it weren't for the politics there. (Taiwan is a story in of istelf).













Never pay again for live sex! (http://showmewebcam.com/?p=1) | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! (http://showmewebcam.com/?p=3) | Chat for free! (http://showmewebcam.com/?p=5)

So how does that justify the US occupying Iraq? It would be pretty simple to set up a representative coalition gov't.

You cannot 'liberate' a country unless it has been invaded by hostile forces.If someone were to kick the Americans out of Iraq,and hand absolute power back to the Iraqi people,that could fairly be called liber ation.

George Bush has no more liberated Iraq than Hitler liberated Poland.

Originally posted by taranaki
You cannot 'liberate' a country unless it has been invaded by hostile forces.If someone were to kick the Americans out of Iraq,and hand absolute power back to the Iraqi people,that could fairly be called liber ation.

George Bush has no more liberated Iraq than Hitler liberated Poland.

In that case, the list of "unliberated" countries would name virtually every country in existence. The idea of liberation is to free a state from oppresion and/or control, and that opression/control can come easily enough from inside. In fact historically speaking often enough it's generated internally, unless you'd like to dispute every civil war in history. And in fact this ideal is championed by Milliardo, who believes that the US government will soon unjustly seize control of America to further it's own ends.


The U.S. still has a military prescence in both Germany and Japan.When you say establish 'government and voting', presumably you mean a U.S. approved yes-man rather than the Islamic state desired by the Iraqis.

So our presence in Japan and Germany has any direct influence over those governments? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the German leadership strongly oppose this war? And BTW our presence in Germany and Japan is a welcome one.

And to speak of Iraqi governmental wishes, could you please point me to some sources that show the majority of Iraqi's wish for an Islamic ruled state?

hey !!! I want an islamic ruled state too !!! I think wyoming would be good !!! Help me liberate wyoming !!!! I really dont have much of an opinion on the war. I dont see what triggered our attention back to iraq all of a sudden , but then again Hussein was a serious asshole. I would rather have seen him snipered by one of his own guys however. I am however enjoying the drop in gas prices although I dont really think the war has any direct effect on it exept maybe the attitudes of people. I would think prices would rise since iraq's economy has been thrown off. how much oil do they produce ????

Originally posted by BigJustinZ28
I would think prices would rise since iraq's economy has been thrown off. how much oil do they produce ????

The overthrow of the Iraqi regise has destabilised OPEC,the cosy little arrangement whereby the arab states manipulate the price of crude by collectively managing the amount of oil available to the world markets. Thanks to the sanctions that were imposed by the U.N.the Iraqis have been severely restricted in the amount of oil that they could trade on the spot markets,and with Iraq's massive oil stocks now under the control of the U.S.,the influence of OPEC on world oil prices will become somewhat diluted.One thing that I am certain of is that the oil production process will be one of the first priorities for repair.Schools,hospitals,roads,and infrastructure will have to wait for significant improvement until theprecious oil is being pumped at maximum potential.

In that case, the list of "unliberated" countries would name virtually every country in existence. The idea of liberation is to free a state from oppresion and/or control, and that opression/control can come easily enough from inside. In fact historically speaking often enough it's generated internally, unless you'd like to dispute every civil war in history. And in fact this ideal is championed by Milliardo, who believes that the US government will soon unjustly seize control of America to further it's own ends.

The idea of liberation means that you give sovereignity back to the people who rightly must have it. At this time this is not the situation in Iraq, and as long as the U.S. is in there, it is occupation and not "liberation". It is not just freeing people from oppression. Eh, and I did not certainly champion "that the US government will soon unjustly seize control of America to further it's own ends." How can the U.S. government do that when it is in control of America? But what I do point out is that some politicians there will use their power in such a way as to further their own agendas, and thereby might virtually sit on their jobs for as long as they want.

*sipping on a yuengling amber lager*
ya know tanaki , i like you man , you keep all the states people on there toes. Where are you from man ? I have no Idea what is going on in Iraq right now because honestly I cant remember and dont care at the moment.

Originally posted by BigJustinZ28
*sipping on a yuengling amber lager*
ya know tanaki , i like you man , you keep all the states people on there toes. Where are you from man ?

LOL,well thanks for the compliment!I'm from the filthy left-wing liberal junta that is New Zealand.I don't have anything against America,or Americans,but I do like to challenge the beliefs of the aveage 'patriot' to see if they have informed opinion,or are just following like sheep.:D

Myself,If I met George Bush,I'd probably buy him a beer.It's the least I could do for all the unintentional entertainment that he has given me over the past few months.:bandit:

Originally posted by taranaki


LOL,well thanks for the compliment!I'm from the filthy left-wing liberal junta that is New Zealand.I don't have anything against America,or Americans,but I do like to challenge the beliefs of the aveage 'patriot' to see if they have informed opinion,or are just following like sheep.:D


And I thought Kiwi's like sheep:p

Originally posted by freakray


And I thought Kiwi's like sheep:p

Only when they've been griiled on a bed of fresh rosemary.:p

Originally posted by taranaki


Only when they've been griiled on a bed of fresh rosemary.:p

You're going to upset Oz when he hears you do that to sheep :o





:hehehe:

As long as I get to cook it before he gets to marry it,I don't care.:devil:

Originally posted by taranaki


LOL,well thanks for the compliment!I'm from the filthy left-wing liberal junta that is New Zealand.I don't have anything against America,or Americans,but I do like to challenge the beliefs of the aveage 'patriot' to see if they have informed opinion,or are just following like sheep.:D

Myself,If I met George Bush,I'd probably buy him a beer.It's the least I could do for all the unintentional entertainment that he has given me over the past few months.:bandit:

lmao , forget the beer , buy him a lager !!! i had no idea nz was left wing liberal , whats it like there ? do you have alot of freedoms there we dont have ? Ive never been , im curious , hell ive never been anywhere even in this country .

Originally posted by BigJustinZ28


lmao , forget the beer , buy him a lager !!! i had no idea nz was left wing liberal , whats it like there ? do you have alot of freedoms there we dont have ? Ive never been , im curious , hell ive never been anywhere even in this country .

I'd say that we do have a few more freedoms....


http://www.trivalleyherald.com/Stories/0,1413,86~10669~1369217,00.html


From where I am sitting,this looks very much like the kind of reaction you'd expect from a minor South American dictatorship.This is not the manner in which a country that prides itself on free speech and the right to democracy should behave.

The last statement in the article says it all for me.

"If they thought it was serious enough of an incident to call in the Secret Service, it should have been serious enough to get the parents involved," Ehrlich said.


Thank God that we do not have a Secret Police force in this country.The idea that we would need a specialist goon squad to protect our Prime Minister from our own school students would be absolute fantasy.

Hasn't marijuana been decriminalized in NZ?

Nope:)

Guess I thought wrong. If it ever does I may make a move to NZ:)

Originally posted by freakray


And I thought Kiwi's like sheep:p


Doesn't that depend on its position? :confused: :D













Never pay again for live sex! (http://showmewebcam.com/?p=1) | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! (http://showmewebcam.com/?p=3) | Chat for free! (http://showmewebcam.com/?p=5)

Originally posted by taranaki


I'd say that we do have a few more freedoms....


http://www.trivalleyherald.com/Stories/0,1413,86~10669~1369217,00.html


From where I am sitting,this looks very much like the kind of reaction you'd expect from a minor South American dictatorship.This is not the manner in which a country that prides itself on free speech and the right to democracy should behave.

The last statement in the article says it all for me.

"If they thought it was serious enough of an incident to call in the Secret Service, it should have been serious enough to get the parents involved," Ehrlich said.


Thank God that we do not have a Secret Police force in this country.The idea that we would need a specialist goon squad to protect our Prime Minister from our own school students would be absolute fantasy.

now that is just batshit insane. I think this is an isolated incident. someone should smack that teacher. those stupid kids were not capable of it. If everytime I said someone should die It was taken seriously Id have life in prison.

Originally posted by BigJustinZ28


now that is just batshit insane. I think this is an isolated incident. someone should smack that teacher.

The Secret Service should come in for a faifr bit of criticism too.Their actions in this are more reminiscent of the Stasi than of protectors of freedom and democracy.

No no no, the INS are the secret police... the Secret Service only protects important people, and enforces hacking/forgery laws.