AE82's

Hi, is anyone here from australia? if not it doesnt matter, i was just wonderin if you guys could help me. i want to knwo how shoudl i do up my rolla without doin a turbo conversion. it might sound really wierd but a rola is my dream car. what i am thinking of doin with it is puttin a black top 4AGE 20V with the 6 speed that comes with the sprinter half cut. then of course just a K&N and some nice extracters and exhaust. Also some nice wheels and lowered suspension.
it would be gratefully apreciated if u guys (or girls) could help me.
:D

Hey man! welcome to AF.

Im resonable well versed in the A series engines, and I know a little about rollas.

Are you looking at doing up an AE86? or later one?

Hey, no it is a earlier one, it is a AE82. i think they are 1982-1987.

Yeah I ment AE82!!!

any way I have an exam tomorow morning, so ill come back tomorow afo, or on sunday and give you some links to good resource sites.
as well as some general info.

Its not a hard swap if you know what your doing. :)
and the old 4a is one of the most worked over motors in history.

Hey,
those sites will be helpful. i have heard that you only have to change an engine mount or something!!!!
:)

Hey there,

If you are using one from an AE86 you may have issues since its mounted N-S, the starter maybe in the wrong positon. You want one from an AE101/111 Levin GT-Apex.
AE101 is silvertop, and AE111 is blacktop 20V (some w/ 6-speed trans).
Where in Australia arey ou located?
I have a 3SGTE going into my corolla at the moment, being slowly stripped.

But 20V is nice for long cruises, has awesome top-end power. It should bolt straight up on your current mounting brackets, you will have an issue with the speedo possibly also. And you will need the 20V ecu to controll the quad throttle bodies and vvt. This will require wiring it all up, the hardest part, anyhow conversion should take you a week max. 1 WHole weekend if you got the wiring done before hand =]]

Damn! I completly forgot about this!!

Ok first up the 20vlave will bolt as in the engine mounts will fit, but the distrubter in on the back of the head, rather than on the side, this means it interfers with the firewall. Then only solution is to cut a hole in the firewall that the dizzy can fit into.
Personaly I would stay away from the 20V, not many people know alot about them, and if you want to tune it, it could be diffcult.

Go with a 4agze from a Trueno/sprinter, It will again drop straight in, and there are no worries with clearance.
You'll need to find a T50 g/box and a bellhousing to make it all fit, but they are out there. Run a frount mounted intercooler and use the factory ECU, so make sure you get one that hasn't had the wiring loom cut up.
Changing the diff to a shortened Hilux one is also a VERY good idea, the stock one will not last long, and most of the Hilux diffs are LSD.

It's also a lot easier to start with an injected car, other wise you need to run fuel lines and new fuel pump etc.

And don't forget suitable suspension and brake upgrades.

:cool:

Ill come back and ad more as I think about it.

Moppie,

I think he wants to source a 20V off a FR AE86 and fit it into his FF AE82.
He shouldnt have any issues at all since its straight bolt up. Only the wiring and piping may be of concern thats all.

It uses the same engine mounts and X-Member mounts also, same driveshafts, etc.

Moppie,

Also here lots of people know about 20V so they are pretty good to fit!!!

Hey guys,
thanx for replying. ok, i was thinkin of usin a 20v blacktop and the 6 speed trans from the half cut of the AE111 levin.

hey 3sgte, is the dude that is doin the transplant, is his name Micheal Castro?. if so i have an issue of fast fours that has a story bout this micheal fella putin a MR2 3sgte in a AE82. it also says that he does it for other people so i thought straight away that you are doin it through him.

I live in Brisbane, northern suburbs near strathpine.

I was thinkin about the supercharged 4AGZE. because later in the future i would turbo charge it wit a Garret t25 roller bearing.

I will keep the hilux diff in mind. i wanted an LSD and i was just planning when i actually got the car to put in the TRD LSD. but then i thought about the cost.

Suspensionm i was thinkin Konis shocks with king springs, and brakes i was lookin at a set of TRD calipers and pads. DBA slotted and drilled rotors.

Neo :)

Originally posted by ae82_3sgte
Moppie,

I think he wants to source a 20V off a FR AE86 and fit it into his FF AE82.
He shouldnt have any issues at all since its straight bolt up. Only the wiring and piping may be of concern thats all.



There is no RWD 20v, the AE86 only came with a 16valve N/A 4age
The 20vlave 4age only come out in the 92+ Trueno's/Levins, and other FWD Corrola derivitives.
Yes it will bolt straight into any AE82- FWD Corrola, but you still have trouble with the wiring loom and plumping fuel for Fuel injection, unless its newer car.
Beside's if hes putting it in a FWD corrola from the early 80s well then thats just stupid, howver if you reread his post and read the post below its pretty obvious he's not.



AE_82NeoAs I said above the 20valve require modifying the fire wall to make the 20valve fit. Iv seen it done on an AE86 rally car, but on a road car with sound deadening and carpet inside, as well the standard pedal box it can get tricky. I think you might also encounter some problems getting something like that complianced in Aussie.
I don't think its worth messing around with the 20valve, there isnt that much of a power gain over what you can get form a 16v engine with only some good cams and head porting.

If you want to go N/A then stick with a 16v 4age. Take it to any compentent engine tuner and tell them how much hp you want, and what sort of torque curve you would like. They are good for 180hp on carbs and 200hp with injection and still be street drivable. (although they will be very lumpy, and not fun in heavy traffic). There's no need to use TRD cams or any expensive aftermarket bits. There are enough cam profiles out there for less money, and the tuner will be able to choose one, or even create one for you, and get it ground.
About 160hp is a nice number to aim for if you want a more dialy driven engine that will be easier to live with. In the light weight AE82 it will still be VERY fast!

If your going Forced Induction then get hold of a 4agze from a post 92 levin or Trueno. The older engines like the one in the S/C MR2 use a MAF sensor, and a single coil distrubtor to get about 130-140hp. The later post 92 engines have a MAP sensor and twin coil elictronic ingnition and put out 160hp stock.
You could bolt one of these in and use the stock ECU with out any trouble, and 160hp with an awsome power curve will keep you happy for a long time. When you get bored of it, add a Turbo aim for 180-90hp, then you can still use stock ECU, Fuel, internals etc. above 190hp it starts to get expensive.

Believe it not, but the hardest thing you have trouble finding will be a bellhousing and flywheel to convert the transverse 4agze into a RWD set up and use the T50 gearbox.

I need to have a good clean out of my bookmarks, but I will find those ites for you. :cool:

Neo,

Michael Castro is a clown, i dont understand his logic, also I am doing this myself and not through anybody. Another mate in WA is also doing one, we plan to show up Michael Castro, his job is way dodgy, I dont feel like explaining why, basically because a MR2 halfcut is pointless to source all the parts from. Im using a ST185 GT4 cut for all my parts.

Im in Sydney, Western Suburbs.

Its not that hard to fit, just the custom work involved for it all thats all.

Fella's,
In the story they said that his job was good, but i suppose that is so other people will get theres done through him. Damn, do u know anyone from brisbane who has done up a nice rolla? There is a nice one a few minutes away from where i live. But cos i am 16, if i go up to him he will tell me to piss off.

GT4, that is the 4 wheel drive version isnt it?

Damn, your in Sydney, i wanted to see your rolla.

Me and Dad are building a westfield sports car.It uses a silver or black top 4AGE, T50 gearbox, Escort rear diff. If you dont know it is a clubman. That is where i got the idea to put a 4AGE in a rolla, but i want to put in the 6 speed from half cut so i get the gearbox and engine with it.

Neo

Neo,

Not saying his job wasnt good, it was detailed well, i Just think the way he has done it and a lot of little things were done without thought. Not going to go into them as ive had a long afternoon replaciong the front bushes on my rolla, only done one of the control arms. gotta do the other tomorrow, had a few little hiccups but worked them out.
GT4 is 4WD 2L Turbo yes. Mine is from teh ST185 model, being 90-93, its the model with the popup headlights, bonnet scoop and slatted grill.

I was in brisbane a month and a half back
might be up there sometime early next year
but i gotta get my car finished first then ill worry about holidays hehe.

Anyhows if you need any help with anything or have questions send me an email.

[email protected]

Originally posted by AE_82Neo


Me and Dad are building a westfield sports car.It uses a silver or black top 4AGE, T50 gearbox, Escort rear diff. If you dont know it is a clubman. That is where i got the idea to put a 4AGE in a rolla, but i want to put in the 6 speed from half cut so i get the gearbox and engine with it.


IM building a Lynx Twincam powered by a 4agze with a T50 and a combination of Nissan and Mazda Read end. (180Bdiff, and 4wd 323 rear suspension). Its not quite as complex as a Westfield, as its based on a Triumph Herald chassis, but with the old 2tge in it when I first got it, it maganged to suprise a few members of the Club Lotus NZ.


Neo: What type of Corrola are you talking about here? a Frount wheel drive one? or a Rear wheel drive Trueno?
Dropping a 20valve with a 6sp into a FWD Corrola is not that hard. However making it run and run well will be. You will have huge problems with chassis flex, suspension and brakes etc...
If its going into a RWD Trueno then the 20v will not be an easy swap, but a 4agze will be. However you will have to use a T50, or find a custom bell housing to run one of the Supra boxs. If you want a 6sp, forget it, the cost of a RWD Supra 6sp is horrendus. (and the one that comes with the 20v is FWD only.)
You will still have to fiddle around with new Fuel pump, and if it was orginaly a carberated car new fuel lines, but theres plenty of room to work in an AE82/86. Suspension will need upgrading but there are plenty of choices here, any good suspension shop will be able to find springs and shocks to suit your needs. Replacing the rear diff with an LSD Hilux one is also not tha hard, and you also get the bigger brakes from the Hilux.

ae82_3sgte is your talking about a Celica, and fitting an engine into it from a 4WD Turbo GT4. Its a much easier swap then putting a 4age into a RWD Trueno/Corrola. (levin)

Moppie,
I want a front wheel drive AE82 hatch. yeah i know that the 6 spd is front wheel drive or else i would of just stayed with the factory gearbox or put in a T50. but with the fdactory gearbox i would of strengthened the clutch plates and stuff.
the westfield will be a machine, it does 0-100km/h in around 5.2 seconds, which beats alot of sports cars, and it is also street legal, even though it is about 90-110mm of the ground.

AE82_3sgte, do u have a stereo in your rolla, if not r u goin to put one in??. if i am going to it will just be a head unit (sony), 4 inch splits in the front doors (pioneer or alpine), 6x9 in the rear doors (pioneer or alpine) and 2 subs on the back boot lid tray (10 inch, Xplod or MTX) and last 1 or 2 V12 amps.

Moppie,

I have a Toyota Corolla AE82 4Dr Hatch, Front Engine, Front Drive , ie. FF. Manufacture date 7/88 (Last AE82 Model)


I have a 3SGTE (out of a ST185 GT-Four) going into it soon, yes I realise all the chassis strengthening which is what I plan to do anyhow. This is not straight bolt in and requires fabrication and modification which I shall be doing anyhow.

He has an AE82 FF (Front Drive) like me, and wants to fit a 20V Blacktop into it, which is straight bolt in, only hard part is the wiring.



:sun:

well that just about sums it all up.;)

Originally posted by AE_82Neo
well that just about sums it all up.;)

In that case you are quite fucken mad!!!!!!!

I respect that.

That will be a little rocket ship!


What does the Aussie law think about this swap? or is it a case of its a Toyota motor in a toyota, what does it matter.

ae82_3sgte Your totaly mad!!!! I hope you get some pics of the install progress, and some 1/4 times afterwards would be very interesting!

I have a mate with the rusted remains of an Auto 1.3l Hatch, it refuses to die, but it has enough trouble handling the power from the 1300, I hate to think how it would cope with at least twice that hp!

Moppie,

Torque is what will kill the chassis, not horsepower!!! Torque propells you, horsepower keeps the engine spinning and powered.
Factory weight is 930kg, mine weighs about 970-980kg. Laws well,
this conversion is engineerable so its not a problem, power to weight is like 6kg:1kw after conversion i think. I'm aiming for 4.75kg:1kw!!!
Will be taking some pics and run some 1/4 mile times hopefully after, only going for low 12's , harder to get a FWD to run faster than that without some serious engine internal mods and big fat slicks hehe, which I dont really wanna do, since this will be a streetable car and get me from A to B as well as a bunch of speeding fines hehehe. The 20V AE82 is not too bad, runs pretty nice actually. Hrm my chassis isnt in the best condition but im gonna be stitch welding the whole thing and using bars and so forth to help improve rigidity at weak structural points.!

Little QUick Torque Steering Wheelspinning FWD's are cool heheh.

Mate im not talking about the chassis falling apart, im talking about the ablity of the rather small stock brakes to stop the car from the extreme high speeds it will be capable of, or the rather poor stock suspension to keep all four wheels on the road at the extreme speeds the car will be capable of.

Even new springs and shocks with some semi racing pads will not be enough, if you think it is your deludding your self, and putting your life at risk.

This is why I asked about what the ADR thinks of this swap.

Moppie,

Front End Suspension.

Poly Bushes
Koni Yellow Shocks
50% Stiffer SPrings -35mm (220lbs/")

Rear End Suspension

KYB Shocks
25% Stiffer Springs -38mm (190lbs/")

Front End Brakes

258x22mm Slotted Ventilated AE92 Levin Rotors
ST185 Gt-Four Twin Piston Calipers
Bendix Performax Pads

GT-Four Brake Booster/Master Cylinder

Rear End Brakes

Standard Twin Cam Discs
Standard Twin Cam Calipers
Bendix Metal King Pads


If all that can stop a GT-Four quick, it can certainly stop a 1060kg Corolla 1 1/2 times as quick.

The Way I see they see it, to have it engineered brakes must be of at least the standard of the car the engine came from. GT-Four has 2 spots front, single spots rear.

I cant fit 4 sptos behind my front rims, already tried, not enough offset to clear the strut or the rim.

AE_82Neo take note of ae82_3sgte's above listed brake set up. (very nice by the way, I love the interchangeablity of so many Toyota parts).
You need factor this into your set up, and it could well cost more than the engine swap. (I have no idea what you guys pay for imported parts).



ae82_3sgte
Ill take back any doubts it may have sounded like I had, you clearly have a very well set up car! Im impressed. any chance of some pics?

Moppie,

Leave your email addy and Ill send you some pics from work, on dialup at home now and its damn slow.

Well always allow an extra $3-4k AUD on top of it for other things. Also fuel line/pump upgrades, any hoses you have to replace when the engine is out, replacing timing belt, cleaning radiator. Changing spark plugs for colder items, replacing leads with better conducting ones, air filter to replace dodgy factory airbox, which you have to make an airbox for anyhow in Australia, fitting a larger exhaust to let out the extra gasses the engine produces. And basically anything that looks like it needs to be replaced while the engine is out that you can find looks worn out/broken.

Brakes, Suspension, Fuelling are the 3 most important upgrades you must do when you fit an engine that produces more power and weighs more than a factory delivered item. Another thing is to also look at chassis weaknesses and strengthen them. Even though Toyota over-engineer everything there will always be a weakest link. In a FWD as torque twists the car from North to South, your weak points will be your strut towers to just past your A-Pillars. I recommend going over the whole car, checking it for cracks (as its been around at least 13 years), stitch welding weak joints and using L-Brackets to strengthen corners of the subframe. This will at least make sure your chassis wont start to crack over the first year of transplanting this engine. The blacktop doesnt make much more power, but enough to possibly cause a problem, not as much so as the 3SGTE as the 4AGE 20V blacktop produces more linear torque rather than, little to a lot as a turbo does when it suddenly comes on boost. Your torque curve comes alive very early in the rev range, 3SGTE Gen II at 304nm @ 3200rpm. I am hoping to get with all mods approx. 400nm or so, hopefully delivered slightly later than 3200rpm. Horsepower goal of around 290hp which is the maximum for the factory injectors being 430cc/min items.

Sounds like you've really done the home work on whats involved.
Its good to see.

Ill have to dig up some of my links, but do you know the name: Bradshaw? hes a Toyota guru with an awsome website.

any way my email is [email protected]

Id love to see some pics.

Guys,
I took note of those suspanesion dimensions and your brake upgrades. I never actually thought about the chassis twisting or the fuel lines, shit.

Would u plz be able to send me those pics aswell, my email is [email protected].

i had thought about brakes and suspension but not any thing to do wit the fuel. how much do u have to do on the fuel lines?

And what type and sixe of wheels and tyres do u have?

here is a pic of the tyres that i want, they are 17x7 inchers. MASSIVE!!!