Americans renounce the Patriot act
taranaki
05-06-2003, 07:45 PM
American cities across the nation are showing their objection to the Patriot Act.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/usapatriot020701.html
Resolution passed by Hawaiian Senate
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/sessioncurrent/bills/scr18_.htm
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/usapatriot020701.html
Resolution passed by Hawaiian Senate
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/sessioncurrent/bills/scr18_.htm
Venger10
05-06-2003, 08:12 PM
I guess if you're not a terrorist , you got nothing to worry about.....seems pretty simple:rolleyes:
taranaki
05-06-2003, 08:31 PM
welcome to the politics forum Venger....
It would be nice to think that if you aren't a terrorist,Mr Bush's policies will do you no harm.Unfortunatelythis is not the case,as hundreds of Iraqi civilians could tell you if they hadn't been inconviently rendered deceased.
On the domestic front,the Patriot Act quietly overrides fundamental chunks of the U.S. constitution dealing with the rights of citizens as individuals.Geore Bush has already shown his contempt for human rights and international law by re-classifying prisoners of war held at Guantanamo Bay as 'detainees'.Mr Bush has declared that the war is over,unless these prisoners of war can be charged with any offences,they should ALL be released IMMEDIATELY.
Remember,if Mr Bush can bend the rules to flout international law,he can just as easily bend them to defend his dubious empire against his own citizens.
It would be nice to think that if you aren't a terrorist,Mr Bush's policies will do you no harm.Unfortunatelythis is not the case,as hundreds of Iraqi civilians could tell you if they hadn't been inconviently rendered deceased.
On the domestic front,the Patriot Act quietly overrides fundamental chunks of the U.S. constitution dealing with the rights of citizens as individuals.Geore Bush has already shown his contempt for human rights and international law by re-classifying prisoners of war held at Guantanamo Bay as 'detainees'.Mr Bush has declared that the war is over,unless these prisoners of war can be charged with any offences,they should ALL be released IMMEDIATELY.
Remember,if Mr Bush can bend the rules to flout international law,he can just as easily bend them to defend his dubious empire against his own citizens.
Milliardo
05-06-2003, 09:48 PM
Very true, tara. I am amused that some people here think it is paranoid to be suspicious of Bush's actions. But we here have experienced Martial Law--we saw how something that might be good in the short run was abused as time went on. And we saw how the very same laws meant to supposedly protect the people were used against it. That is why even now it is a warning that Americans should not give Bush a second chance at the office. As tara said, if he had the temerity to flout international laws, to supposedly justify America's actions, how much more can he use domestic laws to serve him, and his cohorts', purposes? Yet blindly do Americans do not realize this, very high are they in victory. Bush has made the American people amenable to his demands, so I wouldn't expect much opposition from that people anytime soon.
Venger10
05-06-2003, 09:49 PM
Don't get me wrong , I'm no Bush fan.....;) We'll see how long the empire lasts , the people still have the right to speak:...so far.......:rolleyes:
I've got my own theories concerning our governments involvement in 9/11 and everything thats happened since then:alien2:
I've got my own theories concerning our governments involvement in 9/11 and everything thats happened since then:alien2:
Venger10
05-06-2003, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by Milliardo
Very true, tara. I am amused that some people here think it is paranoid to be suspicious of Bush's actions. But we here have experienced Martial Law--we saw how something that might be good in the short run was abused as time went on. And we saw how the very same laws meant to supposedly protect the people were used against it. That is why even now it is a warning that Americans should not give Bush a second chance at the office. As tara said, if he had the temerity to flout international laws, to supposedly justify America's actions, how much more can he use domestic laws to serve him, and his cohorts', purposes? Yet blindly do Americans do not realize this, very high are they in victory. Bush has made the American people amenable to his demands, so I wouldn't expect much opposition from that people anytime soon.
This is goin a bit off topic , but I see you must be a Gundam-Wing fan also...;) :D :D :D
Very true, tara. I am amused that some people here think it is paranoid to be suspicious of Bush's actions. But we here have experienced Martial Law--we saw how something that might be good in the short run was abused as time went on. And we saw how the very same laws meant to supposedly protect the people were used against it. That is why even now it is a warning that Americans should not give Bush a second chance at the office. As tara said, if he had the temerity to flout international laws, to supposedly justify America's actions, how much more can he use domestic laws to serve him, and his cohorts', purposes? Yet blindly do Americans do not realize this, very high are they in victory. Bush has made the American people amenable to his demands, so I wouldn't expect much opposition from that people anytime soon.
This is goin a bit off topic , but I see you must be a Gundam-Wing fan also...;) :D :D :D
Milliardo
05-06-2003, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by Venger10
This is goin a bit off topic , but I see you must be a Gundam-Wing fan also...;) :D :D :D
We have a lot to talk about Gundam Wing--and anime. ^_^
Anyway, back on topic, somewhat: I am interested on what you said about the U.S. government's involvement on 9-11. What are they?
This is goin a bit off topic , but I see you must be a Gundam-Wing fan also...;) :D :D :D
We have a lot to talk about Gundam Wing--and anime. ^_^
Anyway, back on topic, somewhat: I am interested on what you said about the U.S. government's involvement on 9-11. What are they?
Venger10
05-06-2003, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by Milliardo
We have a lot to talk about Gundam Wing--and anime. ^_^
Anyway, back on topic, somewhat: I am interested on what you said about the U.S. government's involvement on 9-11. What are they?
Like I said...its a personal theory , but given the state of the world we live in , I think we (the U.S. citizens) are involved in the biggest snowjob EVER.........:eek: Of course....conspiracy theories abound , and most people would call me crazy.....:bloated:
We have a lot to talk about Gundam Wing--and anime. ^_^
Anyway, back on topic, somewhat: I am interested on what you said about the U.S. government's involvement on 9-11. What are they?
Like I said...its a personal theory , but given the state of the world we live in , I think we (the U.S. citizens) are involved in the biggest snowjob EVER.........:eek: Of course....conspiracy theories abound , and most people would call me crazy.....:bloated:
Milliardo
05-06-2003, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by Venger10
Like I said...its a personal theory , but given the state of the world we live in , I think we (the U.S. citizens) are involved in the biggest snowjob EVER.........:eek: Of course....conspiracy theories abound , and most people would call me crazy.....:bloated:
PM me about it. I think I have a feeling what you're trying to say here.
Like I said...its a personal theory , but given the state of the world we live in , I think we (the U.S. citizens) are involved in the biggest snowjob EVER.........:eek: Of course....conspiracy theories abound , and most people would call me crazy.....:bloated:
PM me about it. I think I have a feeling what you're trying to say here.
taranaki
05-06-2003, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by Venger10
Like I said...its a personal theory , but given the state of the world we live in , I think we (the U.S. citizens) are involved in the biggest snowjob EVER.........:eek: Of course....conspiracy theories abound , and most people would call me crazy.....:bloated:
This forum welcomes contributions from any angle.The right to free speech is worthless if you don't use it.Can't guarrantee that everyone will agree with you,but the whole purpose of this forum is for members to get a better understanding of the enormous range of perspectives.Feel free to speak up,your contribution is valuable and should be respected.
Like I said...its a personal theory , but given the state of the world we live in , I think we (the U.S. citizens) are involved in the biggest snowjob EVER.........:eek: Of course....conspiracy theories abound , and most people would call me crazy.....:bloated:
This forum welcomes contributions from any angle.The right to free speech is worthless if you don't use it.Can't guarrantee that everyone will agree with you,but the whole purpose of this forum is for members to get a better understanding of the enormous range of perspectives.Feel free to speak up,your contribution is valuable and should be respected.
Venger10
05-07-2003, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by taranaki
This forum welcomes contributions from any angle.The right to free speech is worthless if you don't use it.Can't guarrantee that everyone will agree with you,but the whole purpose of this forum is for members to get a better understanding of the enormous range of perspectives.Feel free to speak up,your contribution is valuable and should be respected.
The right to free speach is nothing but a myth , no government would ever allow itself to be openly disrespected by its own citizens....
Certainly here in the US , the general population has no clue what is going on , nor really do they care...They have been told that these measures passed and actions taken since 9/11 are for their own protection , and most of them beleives it.....And the one's that don't , are labeled and placed in a filing cabinet for quiet disposal later , or caused to be discredited and labeled as "nuts" or "AntiAmerican"
I hate to think of how this all is going to turn out , but no one but a few will realize until its too late....:(
Just my .03:alien:
This forum welcomes contributions from any angle.The right to free speech is worthless if you don't use it.Can't guarrantee that everyone will agree with you,but the whole purpose of this forum is for members to get a better understanding of the enormous range of perspectives.Feel free to speak up,your contribution is valuable and should be respected.
The right to free speach is nothing but a myth , no government would ever allow itself to be openly disrespected by its own citizens....
Certainly here in the US , the general population has no clue what is going on , nor really do they care...They have been told that these measures passed and actions taken since 9/11 are for their own protection , and most of them beleives it.....And the one's that don't , are labeled and placed in a filing cabinet for quiet disposal later , or caused to be discredited and labeled as "nuts" or "AntiAmerican"
I hate to think of how this all is going to turn out , but no one but a few will realize until its too late....:(
Just my .03:alien:
texan
05-07-2003, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by Venger10
The right to free speach is nothing but a myth , no government would ever allow itself to be openly disrespected by its own citizens....
Certainly here in the US , the general population has no clue what is going on , nor really do they care...They have been told that these measures passed and actions taken since 9/11 are for their own protection , and most of them beleives it.....And the one's that don't , are labeled and placed in a filing cabinet for quiet disposal later , or caused to be discredited and labeled as "nuts" or "AntiAmerican"
I hate to think of how this all is going to turn out , but no one but a few will realize until its too late....:(
This sounds familiar. And completely untrue.
Give me an example of the US government preventing the free speech of it's own citizens at any time since 9/11. BTW, do you not realize that the very freedom you call a myth allowed you to type that without fear of government reprisal?
I am a vocal opponent to the Patriot Act, I haven't been filed away into some corner. Neither has the ACLU or any of the people in the above links.
I also welcome your input to this forum and it's debates, but you will be challenged on your points and expected to back them up with fact.
The right to free speach is nothing but a myth , no government would ever allow itself to be openly disrespected by its own citizens....
Certainly here in the US , the general population has no clue what is going on , nor really do they care...They have been told that these measures passed and actions taken since 9/11 are for their own protection , and most of them beleives it.....And the one's that don't , are labeled and placed in a filing cabinet for quiet disposal later , or caused to be discredited and labeled as "nuts" or "AntiAmerican"
I hate to think of how this all is going to turn out , but no one but a few will realize until its too late....:(
This sounds familiar. And completely untrue.
Give me an example of the US government preventing the free speech of it's own citizens at any time since 9/11. BTW, do you not realize that the very freedom you call a myth allowed you to type that without fear of government reprisal?
I am a vocal opponent to the Patriot Act, I haven't been filed away into some corner. Neither has the ACLU or any of the people in the above links.
I also welcome your input to this forum and it's debates, but you will be challenged on your points and expected to back them up with fact.
YogsVR4
05-07-2003, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Venger10
Like I said...its a personal theory , but given the state of the world we live in , I think we (the U.S. citizens) are involved in the biggest snowjob EVER.........:eek: Of course....conspiracy theories abound , and most people would call me crazy.....:bloated:
I love the conspiracy theorists. :) Its like a good fiction novel. :)
Like I said...its a personal theory , but given the state of the world we live in , I think we (the U.S. citizens) are involved in the biggest snowjob EVER.........:eek: Of course....conspiracy theories abound , and most people would call me crazy.....:bloated:
I love the conspiracy theorists. :) Its like a good fiction novel. :)
Venger10
05-07-2003, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by texan
This sounds familiar. And completely untrue.
Give me an example of the US government preventing the free speech of it's own citizens at any time since 9/11. BTW, do you not realize that the very freedom you call a myth allowed you to type that without fear of government reprisal?
I am a vocal opponent to the Patriot Act, I haven't been filed away into some corner. Neither has the ACLU or any of the people in the above links.
I also welcome your input to this forum and it's debates, but you will be challenged on your points and expected to back them up with fact.
Examples of disallowing free speech?? How about the severe reluctance to allow anti-war demonstrations and the MASSIVE police presence at the ones that were allowed....makes the ones from the 60's look like a Free-for-all...
I'm not convinced that some government flunky is NOT surfing this very board as I type , looking for more serious threats than I.....
And no ...you haven't been filed away ...yet , and neither have the others... But the more dangerous , respected people have been marked...trust me...
And yes...conspiracy theories make good stories , lets hope all we have to do is READ about them......:alien2: :bandit:
This sounds familiar. And completely untrue.
Give me an example of the US government preventing the free speech of it's own citizens at any time since 9/11. BTW, do you not realize that the very freedom you call a myth allowed you to type that without fear of government reprisal?
I am a vocal opponent to the Patriot Act, I haven't been filed away into some corner. Neither has the ACLU or any of the people in the above links.
I also welcome your input to this forum and it's debates, but you will be challenged on your points and expected to back them up with fact.
Examples of disallowing free speech?? How about the severe reluctance to allow anti-war demonstrations and the MASSIVE police presence at the ones that were allowed....makes the ones from the 60's look like a Free-for-all...
I'm not convinced that some government flunky is NOT surfing this very board as I type , looking for more serious threats than I.....
And no ...you haven't been filed away ...yet , and neither have the others... But the more dangerous , respected people have been marked...trust me...
And yes...conspiracy theories make good stories , lets hope all we have to do is READ about them......:alien2: :bandit:
Prelewd
05-07-2003, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by Venger10
Examples of disallowing free speech?? How about the severe reluctance to allow anti-war demonstrations and the MASSIVE police presence at the ones that were allowed....makes the ones from the 60's look like a Free-for-all...
Were these the same type of protests as something like.... the WTO protests?
Examples of disallowing free speech?? How about the severe reluctance to allow anti-war demonstrations and the MASSIVE police presence at the ones that were allowed....makes the ones from the 60's look like a Free-for-all...
Were these the same type of protests as something like.... the WTO protests?
texan
05-07-2003, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by Venger10
Examples of disallowing free speech?? How about the severe reluctance to allow anti-war demonstrations and the MASSIVE police presence at the ones that were allowed....
Yes, actual examples. I saw a few of these demonstrations down in LA, and I didn't see anyone stopping anybody from peacably assembling and protesting. What exactly do you mean by reluctance?
And of course there's massive police presence, several of the first "peace" protests turned unlawful and violent. A friend of mine up north is a federal police officer, and he was punched in the face while sitting in his patrol car in the middle of an intersection (which he was stuck in because the protesters flooded the street and stopped all traffic. And he wasn't even there to police the protesters, he was just passing through downtown Portland after his lunch break. I don't see how police presence prevents you from speaking your mind, I've felt no gag order on me because a cop is around.
Examples of disallowing free speech?? How about the severe reluctance to allow anti-war demonstrations and the MASSIVE police presence at the ones that were allowed....
Yes, actual examples. I saw a few of these demonstrations down in LA, and I didn't see anyone stopping anybody from peacably assembling and protesting. What exactly do you mean by reluctance?
And of course there's massive police presence, several of the first "peace" protests turned unlawful and violent. A friend of mine up north is a federal police officer, and he was punched in the face while sitting in his patrol car in the middle of an intersection (which he was stuck in because the protesters flooded the street and stopped all traffic. And he wasn't even there to police the protesters, he was just passing through downtown Portland after his lunch break. I don't see how police presence prevents you from speaking your mind, I've felt no gag order on me because a cop is around.
Cbass
05-15-2003, 11:23 PM
www.whatreallyhappened.com
Dorikin
05-24-2003, 09:28 AM
Of course, like any good conspiracy theory on 9/11 they blame it as a Zionist plot deisgned by Israel to take over the US :rolleyes:
YogsVR4
05-24-2003, 11:47 AM
Dorikin
05-24-2003, 02:17 PM
LOL!
I read a blurb in the newspaper(which is pretty left of centre for all you naysayers) about how conspiracy theorists tend to brush aside any evidence that proves them wrong and generally invent them out of jealousy/anger...
Another question-why are the jews ALWAYS implicated in these 9/11 or shadow government theorys....what did we ever do?
I read a blurb in the newspaper(which is pretty left of centre for all you naysayers) about how conspiracy theorists tend to brush aside any evidence that proves them wrong and generally invent them out of jealousy/anger...
Another question-why are the jews ALWAYS implicated in these 9/11 or shadow government theorys....what did we ever do?
jinushaun
05-30-2003, 07:41 PM
I farkin hate the PATRIOT Act and the Homeland Security Act. It's bringing America one step closer to a police state and slowly disolving our constitutional rights. (I mean REAL LEGAL CONSTITUTIONAL rights. Privacy is overrated)
gigatron
05-30-2003, 10:28 PM
Why the israelis are involved? How about the (lol) foxnews report which was aired and then never ever mentioned because the information was classified for a further in depth investigation :/ A whole spy ring was uncovered.. that was also in local newspapers for like one day and then never again.
Why do you defend anyone? Because a certain people suffered doesn't mean there aren't a few lunatics inside the ethnic group. That's like saying all germans were bad during the NAZI era. Or saying all serbs were bad during the 92'+ balcans war.
Patriot act 1 and 2 seriously go around the US constitution... i mean wtf :/
A friendly reminder, hitler used the burning of the reich as an excuse to fight terrorism. Labeled the jews as the ones behind it, then changed the german 'constitution', then he went all crazy, then lots and lots and lots and lots of people died.
:rolleyes: History repeats itself and there are always two sides to it.
Why do you defend anyone? Because a certain people suffered doesn't mean there aren't a few lunatics inside the ethnic group. That's like saying all germans were bad during the NAZI era. Or saying all serbs were bad during the 92'+ balcans war.
Patriot act 1 and 2 seriously go around the US constitution... i mean wtf :/
A friendly reminder, hitler used the burning of the reich as an excuse to fight terrorism. Labeled the jews as the ones behind it, then changed the german 'constitution', then he went all crazy, then lots and lots and lots and lots of people died.
:rolleyes: History repeats itself and there are always two sides to it.
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