'97 LeSabre will not start; belt just twitches

Hi all,

My friend has a 1997 Buick LeSabre (fuel injected V6) (about 140,000 miles) and for some reason the car try's to start but it will only "twitch" the belt. In other words it tries very hard to start but it seems like something is keeping it from going.

The battery voltage is good (and it hasn't been drained to much we only tried starting it sparingly). The starter is good I believe.

It sounds like it has a lot of torque when trying to start it and the starter tries very hard to make the belt just move about 1/2 an inch. It almost seems like the belt is too tight or something but it seems to have normal tension. When it quickly gets to that 1/2 inch or turning it makes sort-of a metal sound like metal hitting metal but not like a "ping" its a little more of a deeper sound than that.

I have also checked all fuses both under the instrument panel and also under the hood.

I don't know what to check next. The starter solenoid? Something else? I have little experience in front wheel drive cars.

Thanks.

The upper intake manifold can fail & fill the cylinders with coolant. We refer to this as hydrolocking. You can pull the plugs & see if it turns over. Has he been losing coolant or is it low now?

I did notice that his coolant level was a little bit low and that the reservoir was completely empty. I will ask him (but he won't be available until after 10pm MST).

I forgot to mention that the car has about 140,000 miles on it.

Tell him not to keep trying to start it. I've seen broken starters & bent rods.

If it is hydrolocked then he'll need a new upper intake & should also change the lower intake manifold gaskets.

Okay, I'll let him know. Are you pretty sure that this is a likely reason or do you think that it could be other things?

If you're pretty sure, should I just dive in and take the intake manifold off and I guess look for coolant?

I'd confirm it's the intake before diving in. You can put a socket on either the crank bolt or alternator bolt & see if the engine rotates counterclockwise but not clockwise, that'll confirm its hydrolocked. You might also find coolant in the hose that connects the throttle body to the air cleaner housing. You should still pull the plugs & get the coolant out of the cylinders as soon as possible. I'll send you a private message with a link to an article on the upper intake failure.

I pulled each spark plug out last night and 1,3,5 in the front area of the car all poured out a ton of coolant while the rear ones 2,4,6 didn't seem to pour much if any.

It was dark out so it was very hard to tell...

Thanks for your help; is there anything else I should worry about or should I just get started on getting a new intake and gasket? (and I still need to finish reading the 1st link and start reading the 2nd link which I will do).

I pulled each spark plug out last night and 1,3,5 in the front area of the car all poured out a ton of coolant while the rear ones 2,4,6 didn't seem to pour much if any.

It was dark out so it was very hard to tell...

Thanks for your help; is there anything else I should worry about or should I just get started on getting a new intake and gasket? (and I still need to finish reading the 1st link and start reading the 2nd link which I will do).

I would drain out the oil in it now before you run it after you finish replacing the upper and the gaskets including the gasket under the metal lower intake.
I would put in 4 quarts of cheap oil before you start it, Walmart's brand would be economical. Then after the car has run for many minutes when repaired, drain and refill with clean oil again. Don't forget to change the filter that time.

You might also want a set of fresh spark plugs.

Good luck to you.

Will do.

Thanks.

Sorry it's been about a month (been busy). I have finally pulled the UIM off and found the pool of coolant.

I was surprised that all of the ten UIM bolts were either just barely finger tight or just a big snug. It took no effort to take any of them off and a couple could be taken off just with my fingers.

Does anybody think it is possible that this could simply be the issue? I cannot see any damage to the UIM but it is difficult to tell...

As always I appreciate your input. Thanks!

I would do the upper intake and lower gaskets while apart.

Do you think it is possible that the coolant simply got in because the upper intake manifold was not tight enough? All ten bolts that secure it were barely finger tight or just barely snug.


Also, does anyone know where this short metal tube goes? (see attachment). I noticed it was in the fluid once I cleaned the fluid out. Perhaps it goes in where it is laying? At the EGR port? Does it just fit snug in there?

The camera was facing where the throttle body would be; the EGR metal hose is right below it.

Yesterday I also took the LIM off and found that the gasket was very old and torn up. I will replace the LIM, retorque everything proper and do the same for the UIM.

Can a loose LIM and/or UIM and bad gaskets account for an oil leak? The motor leaked a lot of oil but it seems to be from near the top of the engine...

Thanks for your input.

The problem was solved:

I replaced all gaskets after the coolant was removed and tried to start the engine (thinking the LIM gaskets were the cause). The engine still would not start but tried very hard and almost did.

Upon later more closer inspection of the UIM the hole for the EGR pipe was indeed breached and i could even see through the hole in it.

I replaced the UIM with a better one that solved the issue (on this link: http://www.ineedparts.com/auto-parts/intake-manifolds/gm-intake-manifold-kit-17806.html) It's $106 USD after shipping.

After reassembly the car started just fine and runs like normal.

Just thought I'd share.

The problem was solved:

I replaced all gaskets after the coolant was removed and tried to start the engine (thinking the LIM gaskets were the cause). The engine still would not start but tried very hard and almost did.

Upon later more closer inspection of the UIM the hole for the EGR pipe was indeed breached and i could even see through the hole in it.

I replaced the UIM with a better one that solved the issue (on this link: http://www.ineedparts.com/auto-parts/intake-manifolds/gm-intake-manifold-kit-17806.html) It's $106 USD after shipping.

After reassembly the car started just fine and runs like normal.

Just thought I'd share.

Did you change the oil after rebuilding it to get the last coolant out of the oil.

Sorry forgot to mention that; I will change it very soon and perhaps also replace the coolant. It will be replaced (and the filter) with cheap oil, run for a while (maybe 300 miles?) and then replaced yet again with better oil.

I'm also suggesting frequent check-ups to the owner for the first week (make sure no coolant loss).

I replaced the UIM with a better one that solved the issue (on this link: http://www.ineedparts.com/auto-parts/intake-manifolds/gm-intake-manifold-kit-17806.html) It's $106 USD after shipping.
I used the same kit a few years a go and so far I am very happy with it. I think it's the best one by far.

Chris.

I was very happy with the way the EGR tube was designed, my only issue I had was that the gasket that came with it was a bit hard to properly seat on the UIM.

I even tried a Felpro gasket that I had and it too didn't fit quite right. With a lot of fanangling and patiently toying with the gasket it finally went on proper though.

The bolts also didn't align entirely, they would be slightly off center but it worked okay in the long run.