ONLY 13 MPGS any ideas?

2002 Intrigue 3.5L just had the transmission rebuilt then it blew again then the valvebody and solenoids were replaced it blew again so it was overhauled again and the wire harness had been crushed so it was replaced. Finally the transmission is running okay, so far but I've only put on 700 miles. Since this last time it was rebuilt I've only been getting roughly 13 mpg. I also just had the brakes done but those need to be redone because my rotors are shot and are spotted with black heat burns in them. The brakes are screeching when backing out of the driveway or turning without my foot on the brakes my guess is thats because they were very cheap. Other than that they are fine. I checked the calipers and those seem fine as well they are all expanding and contracting as they should. But I dont know why I'm getting such bad MPGS. No engine codes, I dont feel a misfire, I have 1 small hole in my muffler, Catalytic converter is new, o2 sensors are new,air injection system is new, I need new tires soon but they are all aired properly. I cant think of anything else that could cause bad MPGS. The fuel filter had been changed before I got the car and I've only put 10k on it since. It seems I notice this gas usage more right after fueling. Can the recent Transmission rebuilds cause bad mileage until it breaks in more? any ideas are appreciated this is getting costly.

recheck the tranny fluid level (when warm). Look into the owners manual for the procedure.

Brake in those brakes some. I air out to 40psi in the tires now. Check for your parking brake grabbing also.

I'm having gas issues with mine also...It's a 98 Intrique with the 3800 series 2 in it....I gave the car a tune up and now its using more gas...WTF!....i changed the plugs,wires,fuel filter,oil filter,tranny filter,new tranny fluid,engine oil,flushed the cooling system out.The car purs like a kitten now but its using more gas and I dont know why....Could my o2 sensors need to be cleaned?.....i checked the maf sensor but its not dirty...I had an issue with the electrical system and it threw a code for the tranny shift sensors? or torque converter lock up sensor?....something like that...i know it was code p0741....but that went away when i fixed the battery problerm.it does shift kinda funny....shifts in every gear around 2000 rpm's.....when im going 40 its at 1800 rpms but at 45 its at 1200 rpms?.....doesnt sound right but ok...lol.....any ideas guys?

You didn't mention if the spark plugs had been replaced? Also are you sure the transmission is using all the gears? What is the rpm at 60 mph? I would get those brakes looked at like krivasauto suggests. you shouldn't have black marks on the rotors or hear screeching.

My rpm's at 60 are 2k and yes i did say in my post i changed the plugs.my brakes do need to be done but they are not bad..Just getting to the point where the pads needs to be changed out also if it makes a difference i have 4 wheel disc brakes.I have also seen in other posts users are getting some very good results in using seafoam in their trannies and using a shift kit.I would like to think its something small causing my excessive fuel consumption but i am not a delusional person so im gonna go with the more expensive tranny probability.when i did the tranny fluid and filter change there wasnt any metal shavings in the pan which is a good thing but there was a far amount of gray sludge in the pan.the tranny seems to be shifting the same way it was before servicing it and hasnt gotten any worse which im guessing is also a good thing.but never the less it is still shifting kinda funny.i have almost zero experiance when it comes to transmissions so all the simplest answers and tips would be great.and if you can think of anything else besides the tranny that would be fantastic for my wallet....lol....thanx again guys.

I can run 70mph+ at 2k rpm. A good touring tire aired out 35-40 psi helps some.

auto trannies are simple = change the fluid and filter, make sure the tranny cooler works. Old fluid breaks down and causes torque converter slippage.

The parking brake is separate from the disk brake in the rear. =follow the manual linkage cable.

http://lucasoil.hodgsoncorp.com/slipping_transmission.htm

The plugs are newer. Dont remember exactly how old they are. I put a bottle of Lucas in with the gas and it seems to have done the trick. As far as the brakes go the squeeking is slowing up so they just needed to be broken in. I'm running about 1800 RPMS at 60 mph. Now I have a new question. I can feel the transmission shift at about 10-15 and again at 25-30mph. So my guess is in and out of 2nd gear. The transmission is in the process of breaking in from a recent rebuild. But I have 2 Intrigues and I cant feel the 1999 shifting as much as my 2002 in or out of 2nd gear. I am wondering if that is normal. It doesnt feel like a slip or a hard upshift and it's not violently shifting. But it is more noticable than any other gear. So im trying to figure out if I'm over reacting or if it needs to go back to the shop.

Cougar214 to me it almost sounds like for peace of mind you should take your car for a good drive maybe an hour or so. Letting the tranny get hot and take it to a shop and have them check the tranny for codes. I wouldnt turn the engine off until they plug it in. The problem I had with mine the first few times is when I shut the car off the codes for the tranny would often clear themselves until it got hot again.

I didnt really have any real symptoms for my transmission acting up. accept my shift points were off and I could feel the shifting in all gears not violently but they were there. Took car to shop had all solenoids replaced. It was fine for 95 days then it started shifting violently. Took it to a different reputable local transmission specialist they ended up replacing the Torque Converter, Filter,EPC Solenoid, TCC Solenoid, 4th clutch Hub, Torrington bearing, Parking Gear Bearing, another Torrington Bearing, Banner kit, Channel Plate Sleeve, Sonnax AFL Valve kit, and a Torque Signal Valve. Then after a first failed rebuild they rebuilt it again and then it failed again and the rebuilt it again, and then found the wire harness was crushed so they replaced that this last time.

Wow.Did you come to an Automotive Forum to give English lessons?I'm not being rude but I was looking for an answer to my car troubles.I didn't come here to reminisce over high school.Don't forget this is,after all,the internet.Avid internet users know how to read even when things are typed up really fast and mistakes are made.We still get the point.

Now,If you have anything to offer regarding my post I would love to hear about it.If not then please grade my paper and move along.Thank you for taking the time to teach me the proper way to write.I almost forgot.

P:S Do I get at least a B+ this time?

Your tires are the correct size right?

Also assuming you are calculating your mileage using miles driven/gallons filled not just by going off the gauge?

Those are the only things I can think of that haven't been covered already.

As for the grammar issue, I agree that its much easier to read and process information if its laid out in a way that makes it easy to read, as opposed to a solid mass of text.

If you wrote a paper with just a solid mass of text, most teachers would count off. Yes this is "just the Internet", but that doesn't mean we have to turn into a bunch of pre-pubescent teens texting their BFF's. We're all intelligent adults here, I think we can take the time to at least communicate like them.

Go around typing giant masses of text on any forum and you'll have someone point it out. It's not just here.

End of rant.

No.My intake gaskets aren't leaking.The engine purs like a kitten.I checked the maf sensor and it appears to be clean.There is however some carbon built up inside the throttle body.I'm not sure if this would be enough to cause the troubles.

My tires are 225x75x16".I believe.I know they are 16's.They are a little low on air but they do however call for 30lbs and they now have 32lbs in them.I was told 35 psi was good for them though.

And yes I have been calculating my miles per gallon.i was getting around 22-24 mpg when I first bought the car.I am now getting around 18-20.

These are of course ballpark figures as driving habits never stay the same.I did take my maf sensor and throttle position sensors off and cleaned them the best I could without TB cleaner.

It does seem to have improved performance so I will go ahead and get some TB cleaner and do the job right.

Well, factory tire size is 225/60/16. If your tires really are the size you stated its no wonder your mileage is terrible but Im thinking you are mistaken, those tires would be nearly 3 inches taller than stock, I dont think they would even fit, those are almost the same size tires I have on my Jeep! haha.

Also, have you considered doing a compression test? Might be a pain on the 3.5, but if youre really convinced something is wrong it cant hurt.


Another thing is what sort of gas do they have where you live? I know I lost a couple mpg on average when Missouri passed legislation requiring all gasoline 91 or lower to contain 10% ethanol. Something to think about.

Yes your correct.They are 225/60/16.

I live in North Carolina and they also add 10% Ethanol.

I haven't really considered doing a compression test because the engine does run very well.

My only concern is for the way she shifts.To give you a better idea of what I'm saying I'll give you an example.

When I start driving the car and it takes off in first gear,I'm tranny dumb so I assume it starts out in first gear,the tack will shoot up to 2500 rpms and the rpms will go down to 2k once it shifts to the next gear.

When it shifts to the next gear the tack will raise to about 2100,shift,and drop back to 2k.Then when it shifts into I'm assuming 3rd gear the tack will drop to 1500 rpms and thats where I get the bucking back and fourth.

As my speed starts to raise to 40 mph the tack will also increase steadily to 2000 rpms.When it finally goes into 4th gear the tack will drop to 1500 rpms and the bucking stops.The tack will not increase to 2000rpms again till I reach a speed over 65 mph.

Now here is what I find strange.At 45 mph my tack reads 1500 rpms.But at 40 mph my tack reads 1900 rpms.Shouldn't your tack read less rpms at a slower speed?

This is where I believe I may have a soleniod problem or at the very least a soleniod switch problem.I could be wrong but I don't believe the rpm's should be hovering around 2k for every gear till I reach fourth gear.

I can make the rpms drop and the tranny shift a little smoother if i let off the pedal just a little till it shifts and then press the pedal back down again.

Yea to me it sounds like you blew a soleniod. GM had issues with the solenoids. I had mine changed out several times before I got a decent set. But if you blew a solenoid my guess is it went unnoticed for quite some time. Sometimes it can take quite a while for you to notice the symptoms. Usually by then it is to late you are probably looking at a tranny rebuild. But it will be cheaper to have a re manufactured put in it. The reason it can go un noticed is because when the tranny detects a slip It will increase the pressure inside to try and correct and minimalize the damage. But by driving like that the valve hose thing inside "I forgot what it was called" can blow. then valve body etc.. The damage just continues up the chain from there. I paid $2,100.00 to have mine rebuilt. I could have paid $700.00 for a re manufactured one and another $300.00 to have it installed. Right there you could potentially save about a grand. Take it for a long drive let it get hot and take it to a tranny specialist they'll charge you about $45 to plug it in and check for a tranny code.

How much would it cost me to change out the soleniods?I think I saw on AllData that these trannys only have 2 of them.And what would be the process in changing them out?Drop the tranny pan and remove the valve body right?

Also if I do need to drop the valve body what else should I change out while I"m in there?

I believe the solenoids are accessed via the side cover. You have to remove the left axle, disconnect steering components, and drop the sub frame to get to it. It's a big job. Not something you could do with a Saturday off and few beers...

I was afraid you were gonna say that....lol.Now I have to get the tools to do the job and yes I could do this job.

Only problem is I have only done work like this with friends and family on their cars and helping them do it.


It's a little different when you gotta do it on your own car and don't have the proper tools to do it.

It costs about $600.00 to have the solenoids changed out. However be warned going that route does not and will not necessarily fix your problem for good. I had mine changed out and 95 days later (5 days after waranty) they blew again because the transmission was so screwed up internally. I would deffinately have it looked at. These are good transmissions but when they have a problem its usually a nightmare getting them fixed. See when a solenoid blows the transmission increases pressure to try and minimalize damage during shifts. You often wont even feel the shifts at all. But after so long of the transmission issue going unresolved it can start to damage it. Like your valve body and your force clutch and the pressure regulator. Ultimately it sounds like that is what is happening to your car dont quote me but it sounds to me like its to the point a rebuild or "remanu" may be necessary. Dont be like me and waste $600.00 just for it to blow again for good afterwards to pay another $2100.00. I would deffinately try to have the pan dropped so you know whats going on in there. If you just take it to just any shop they WILL change the solenoids before cracking the pan. But then you will pay twice. Try to locate a reputable transmission specialist in your area with a good warranty if you do decide to rebuild. If you decide to have a remanufactured one put in I found some on ebay for like $700.00 make sure it has a decent warranty as well. Then my transmission guy would have put it in for $300.00. So I wish I would have went that route instead of the rebuild.

This is an update on my gas millage.

I checked my rear E-brake just to be sure it was working properly and it's not.

The e-brake on the passenger side is working fine but the drivers side isn't

The drivers side has resistance in the wheel with the brake on or off.This explains why it is pulling more to the left than it did when I bought the car.

I was working on the car one day and used the e-brake.Thats when this extra pulling started now that I think of it.

So whats involved in fixing the e-brake?All I have to do is remove the wheel,disc,and caliper and replace the e-brake pad right?And possibly replace a clip or spring?

[QUOTE]Have fun redoing the rear brakes. Probably a binding cable. Disassemble and clean. Rear shoe is like $45 to $100+/QUOTE]


So.....I"m guessing its a pain in da azz?

Now comes the question I always love to ask....does one really need a parking brake when we have automatic transmissions?

[QUOTE]Have fun redoing the rear brakes. Probably a binding cable. Disassemble and clean. Rear shoe is like $45 to $100+/QUOTE]


So.....I"m guessing its a pain in da azz?

Well i finished pulling the back wheel off and it looks like the caliper is sticking not the e-brake.I tried spraying everything out with brake cleaner but its still doing it.Any ideas or am I looking at buying a new caliper?

You could try greasing up the calipers but that may be just a waste of time. I believe you have to replace them in twos. Im not positive but it may be recommended to ensure they are both in sync.

You could try greasing up the calipers but that may be just a waste of time. I believe you have to replace them in twos. Im not positive but it may be recommended to ensure they are both in sync.

Calipers can be replaced only if necessary and don't need to be installed in pairs, but are usually a little cheaper (price per caliper) if they are purchased in pairs. However, not many parts stores stock brake calipers in pairs; most just stock them individually.

Setting parking brake when parking on an incline before releasing the service (foot) brake reduces the load on the parking pawl and prevents that popping noise when shifting out of park.

I cringe when I hear that sound. I normally drive a manual anyways so I've made it a good habit to set the parking brake. Obviously, its not wise to leave your car in neutral and rely on the parking brake either.

In addition, setting the parking brake is a good habit in the event a child obtains keys and moves the transmission lever out of park. More than one person has been killed or seriously injured by the failure of a driver to set a parking brake.

^^+1

O'k guys.Update time.I have replaced the rear drivers side caliper as it was frozen and the pads on that side were pretty much gone.I did not replace the caliper on the passengers side yet but when I have the money I am going to overhaul the whole thing front and rear.

Surprisingly the pads on the passenger rear side were pretty meaty.Only problem there is they were starting to scorch the disc.I did not have it turned because it wasn't too bad and figure the new pads will wear off the marks.

The excess pulling is now gone but the alignment still has to be done so there is still the little pulling from when I bought the car.

As for the gas millage Time will tell.I just filled the tank and took note of how many gallons went into it,about 11 gallons,plus the 1/4 tank I still had which is about 4-5 gallons.So figure 15 gallons.Nice round number.Lol.I have set my trip odometer after filling so lets see how she does on fuel now.

As for the tranny,Like I said in another post, I will be using the Seafoam Trans Tune on her and give it a good cleaning out and put in a good filter and high quality fluid and see what happens.I have nothing to lose by trying.

On a side not Id'e like to thank everyone for helping me out here.I have been coming to Automotive Forums.Com for a few years now with various cars and problems and you guys have never let me down.Sometimes you hear what you don't want to but thats how the world works for all of us.