What do you think of an online rally picture database?
Marco_Wrc
04-28-2003, 04:34 PM
Good evening,
question: Would you be interested in an online rally picture database?
If yes, how should it look like (features etc), and how should it not look like.
If no, why not? what should be done to change your mind?
Why am I asking this? (think you guessed it by now) I have this idea to build a site which has thousands and thousands of rally pictures. I already made a version for my own purpose (very simple, but effective). I thought it would be easy to have all the pictures in one spot rather then scattered all over the internet (wrc.com, rally-live.com, the rallyteam sites.)
Would it be possible to gather all the pictures on one site and not getting trouble with copyright? If there is a problem, what should I do to work around this.
A feature I'm thinking about: Let the visitors upload their pictures. They should register somehow first ofcourse. Members will get credit for the pictures they upload, etc, etc. Anyway, you get the idea. I want to make it highly interactive.
One thing that stops me from doing it straight away is datalimits, bandwidth and the money concerned with it. Can anyone tell me something about how to tackle it?
Euhm, that's it for now. I'll wait and see what you think of it.
question: Would you be interested in an online rally picture database?
If yes, how should it look like (features etc), and how should it not look like.
If no, why not? what should be done to change your mind?
Why am I asking this? (think you guessed it by now) I have this idea to build a site which has thousands and thousands of rally pictures. I already made a version for my own purpose (very simple, but effective). I thought it would be easy to have all the pictures in one spot rather then scattered all over the internet (wrc.com, rally-live.com, the rallyteam sites.)
Would it be possible to gather all the pictures on one site and not getting trouble with copyright? If there is a problem, what should I do to work around this.
A feature I'm thinking about: Let the visitors upload their pictures. They should register somehow first ofcourse. Members will get credit for the pictures they upload, etc, etc. Anyway, you get the idea. I want to make it highly interactive.
One thing that stops me from doing it straight away is datalimits, bandwidth and the money concerned with it. Can anyone tell me something about how to tackle it?
Euhm, that's it for now. I'll wait and see what you think of it.
RallyRaider
04-28-2003, 08:03 PM
Sounds like a cool idea. However the headaches involved with copyright and storage space could be major obstacles.
BugZilla
04-30-2003, 12:56 PM
I think it's a great idea, though I dont know much about copyrights and all that. I would like to see something that includes detail pic's of engines, interiors and all the stuff that they never show. Takes a long time trying to search for reference pic's to detail models.
Marco_Wrc
05-02-2003, 04:43 AM
Thanks for the support.
Copyright is an issue indeed. One needs permission to use copyrighted material from the owner. But, I found something about fair use of copyrighted material.
source: http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html
...the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include-
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
To work with this rule I thought of the following.
First of all I demand members to get permission from the owner of the images they want to upload. If they have permission, or not, credits will go out to the owner of the picture (free advertisement for the owner).
I'll place disclaimers on prominent places on the site with information about the purpose of the site (non-profit, educational) and about the use/abuse of copyright.
Takes a long time trying to search for reference pic's to detail models.
So, it'll also be for research (one more argument to use fair-use).
Now, I went to work although I'm still not sure whether everything (copyright issues) is foolproof. I arranged webspace, so that's one problem less (for now). There's space for about 15000+ pictures, so for the time being it should be ok.
I now get at the point of uploading images. My question is:
What sort of information should be shown with a picture?
This is what I have right now:
Name of driver, co-driver. Brand and model of car. Name of rally, year, which leg. (also owner of picture)
If this is in your opinion not enough, what should be add as well?
Thank you for your time.
Copyright is an issue indeed. One needs permission to use copyrighted material from the owner. But, I found something about fair use of copyrighted material.
source: http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html
...the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include-
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
To work with this rule I thought of the following.
First of all I demand members to get permission from the owner of the images they want to upload. If they have permission, or not, credits will go out to the owner of the picture (free advertisement for the owner).
I'll place disclaimers on prominent places on the site with information about the purpose of the site (non-profit, educational) and about the use/abuse of copyright.
Takes a long time trying to search for reference pic's to detail models.
So, it'll also be for research (one more argument to use fair-use).
Now, I went to work although I'm still not sure whether everything (copyright issues) is foolproof. I arranged webspace, so that's one problem less (for now). There's space for about 15000+ pictures, so for the time being it should be ok.
I now get at the point of uploading images. My question is:
What sort of information should be shown with a picture?
This is what I have right now:
Name of driver, co-driver. Brand and model of car. Name of rally, year, which leg. (also owner of picture)
If this is in your opinion not enough, what should be add as well?
Thank you for your time.
freakray
05-02-2003, 08:06 AM
It sounds to me like you are going about things the right way Marco, which is good and I really respect that.
As far as listing the photos, I think you have it covered as far as how to identify photos, the only thing I would add is to perhaps to have them in folders as it were, so that all the Focus photos are together, and all the Subaru ones and so forth.
I hope it all works out for you :)
Ray
As far as listing the photos, I think you have it covered as far as how to identify photos, the only thing I would add is to perhaps to have them in folders as it were, so that all the Focus photos are together, and all the Subaru ones and so forth.
I hope it all works out for you :)
Ray
Marco_Wrc
05-02-2003, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by freakray
It sounds to me like you are going about things the right way Marco, which is good and I really respect that.
As far as listing the photos, I think you have it covered as far as how to identify photos, the only thing I would add is to perhaps to have them in folders as it were, so that all the Focus photos are together, and all the Subaru ones and so forth.
I hope it all works out for you :)
Ray
I thought of two ways accessing the pictures. One by surfing around using a menu or so. (Indeed, keeping all the pictures of one brand in one folder, ...sort of).
This is what I have now, a quick example. It is a menu for quickbrowsing the database the names are clickable. I think you have something like this in mind as well.
http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/863518naamloos.JPG
And two, I think most of the people look for specific pictures. Here we can use a searchpage.
Small general update: Uploading of images works, need to fnish it a bit so driversnames, cars and rallynames can be add with a picture. Most of the support systems work like register/loginsystem, newspage, automatic thumbnailing, as well as the layout.
It sounds to me like you are going about things the right way Marco, which is good and I really respect that.
As far as listing the photos, I think you have it covered as far as how to identify photos, the only thing I would add is to perhaps to have them in folders as it were, so that all the Focus photos are together, and all the Subaru ones and so forth.
I hope it all works out for you :)
Ray
I thought of two ways accessing the pictures. One by surfing around using a menu or so. (Indeed, keeping all the pictures of one brand in one folder, ...sort of).
This is what I have now, a quick example. It is a menu for quickbrowsing the database the names are clickable. I think you have something like this in mind as well.
http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/863518naamloos.JPG
And two, I think most of the people look for specific pictures. Here we can use a searchpage.
Small general update: Uploading of images works, need to fnish it a bit so driversnames, cars and rallynames can be add with a picture. Most of the support systems work like register/loginsystem, newspage, automatic thumbnailing, as well as the layout.
Guido
05-04-2003, 08:33 PM
Hey Marco,
I very much like that idea. I'm about to redesign my site as well - showcase for modelers the world over - and have a reference page as well. It was basic and I post only my own pictures, but now it grows I need a sort of database as well, I see that as the biggest challenge. Creating the whole database, which can be accessed then.
As far as indexing is concerned, like Ray said, I think you have covered, nearly everything. Maybe main sponsor or so. And the final result the car got during that event, as background info. ;)
I very much like that idea. I'm about to redesign my site as well - showcase for modelers the world over - and have a reference page as well. It was basic and I post only my own pictures, but now it grows I need a sort of database as well, I see that as the biggest challenge. Creating the whole database, which can be accessed then.
As far as indexing is concerned, like Ray said, I think you have covered, nearly everything. Maybe main sponsor or so. And the final result the car got during that event, as background info. ;)
hrmodeler
05-05-2003, 07:43 AM
Good work for now Marco!
Only problem can be with bandwith when people start to download photos. That problem I had last month with my site.
Only problem can be with bandwith when people start to download photos. That problem I had last month with my site.
Marco_Wrc
05-06-2003, 10:11 AM
I'm glad people like the idea.
I'm a bit further now.
http://www.rpdb.net/ is online, not much to see yet, but it's mine :)
The system for uploading pictures (as well as viewing them) has progressed a lot.
Originally posted by hrmodeler
Good work for now Marco!
Only problem can be with bandwith when people start to download photos. That problem I had last month with my site.
That's my main concern for now. I host this site at a friends server, he wanted to host it for free (how generous). I told him the site would generate a lot of traffic. He first wants to see how much it will be, before he decides whether he continues to host or not.
I try to get minimal traffic by thumbnailing every picture. It will cost me a bit more diskspace but when browsing the pictures you'll see small thumbnails instead of loading the full picture. (when you click on it you get the original).
This will generate about 80% less traffic, I hope.
Zeljko, may I ask you where you host your website? 10gb datalimit sounds good (but expensive). How much diskspace is available? around 1gb?
I'm a bit further now.
http://www.rpdb.net/ is online, not much to see yet, but it's mine :)
The system for uploading pictures (as well as viewing them) has progressed a lot.
Originally posted by hrmodeler
Good work for now Marco!
Only problem can be with bandwith when people start to download photos. That problem I had last month with my site.
That's my main concern for now. I host this site at a friends server, he wanted to host it for free (how generous). I told him the site would generate a lot of traffic. He first wants to see how much it will be, before he decides whether he continues to host or not.
I try to get minimal traffic by thumbnailing every picture. It will cost me a bit more diskspace but when browsing the pictures you'll see small thumbnails instead of loading the full picture. (when you click on it you get the original).
This will generate about 80% less traffic, I hope.
Zeljko, may I ask you where you host your website? 10gb datalimit sounds good (but expensive). How much diskspace is available? around 1gb?
freakray
05-06-2003, 10:19 AM
Marco,
I don't want to sound critical, but you should be careful using the FIA and WRC logos, if you have permission that is one thing, but they are copyrighted trademarks.
I don't want to sound critical, but you should be careful using the FIA and WRC logos, if you have permission that is one thing, but they are copyrighted trademarks.
Marco_Wrc
05-06-2003, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by freakray
Marco,
I don't want to sound critical, but you should be careful using the FIA and WRC logos, if you have permission that is one thing, but they are copyrighted trademarks.
Good point, forgot about that. Will send them emails right away. Thanks for the critical eye.
Marco,
I don't want to sound critical, but you should be careful using the FIA and WRC logos, if you have permission that is one thing, but they are copyrighted trademarks.
Good point, forgot about that. Will send them emails right away. Thanks for the critical eye.
bigfrit
05-06-2003, 11:03 AM
Really like and support this idea! Nice to have a full DB with all photo's available.
Great work sofar.
olivier
Great work sofar.
olivier
hrmodeler
05-06-2003, 05:29 PM
Marco,
my site is 100 MB big and I have 10 GB limit on bandwith. Usually providers give less bandwith but this one give more.
It's based in my country.
my site is 100 MB big and I have 10 GB limit on bandwith. Usually providers give less bandwith but this one give more.
It's based in my country.
Marco_Wrc
05-12-2003, 03:15 PM
Sad news. I emailed wrc.com with a few questions... I got these answers.
I somewhat expected this.
Dear Marco
Thank you for your email to wrc.com
Unfortunately we are unable to allow you to use the pictures on our website. These come from our photography agency, McKlein, and the terms of our contract with them state that we are not able to grant use to third party websites.
Neither am I unable to give you access to the WRC logo, which is reserved for official partners and license holders of the WRC.
Apologies that on this occasion we are unable to help.
Regards
WRC Press
So, there goes a good source for pictures, and the logo which I used as a part of my own logo.
The good news is, the website is almost finished, and ready for testing/reviewing.
But still, the birth of rpdb.net has become overcast by dark clouds of copyright. :(
I somewhat expected this.
Dear Marco
Thank you for your email to wrc.com
Unfortunately we are unable to allow you to use the pictures on our website. These come from our photography agency, McKlein, and the terms of our contract with them state that we are not able to grant use to third party websites.
Neither am I unable to give you access to the WRC logo, which is reserved for official partners and license holders of the WRC.
Apologies that on this occasion we are unable to help.
Regards
WRC Press
So, there goes a good source for pictures, and the logo which I used as a part of my own logo.
The good news is, the website is almost finished, and ready for testing/reviewing.
But still, the birth of rpdb.net has become overcast by dark clouds of copyright. :(
Marco_Wrc
05-12-2003, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by Marco_Wrc
Sad news. I emailed wrc.com with a few questions... I got these answers.
I somewhat expected this.
So, there goes a good source for pictures, and the logo which I used as a part of my own logo.
The good news is, the website is almost finished, and ready for testing/reviewing.
But still, the birth of rpdb.net has become overcast by dark clouds of copyright. :(
Though last week I got the rights to use graphics from codemasters. I used a rallycar in my logo which comes from artwork from the game Colin McRae rally 3. :) A small success.
Sad news. I emailed wrc.com with a few questions... I got these answers.
I somewhat expected this.
So, there goes a good source for pictures, and the logo which I used as a part of my own logo.
The good news is, the website is almost finished, and ready for testing/reviewing.
But still, the birth of rpdb.net has become overcast by dark clouds of copyright. :(
Though last week I got the rights to use graphics from codemasters. I used a rallycar in my logo which comes from artwork from the game Colin McRae rally 3. :) A small success.
freakray
05-13-2003, 09:02 AM
Don't be discouraged, every great venture will have obstacles to overcome, be satisfied that you went about things the right way and caught a small hurdle rather than doing what many people do and ignore the copyrights and get in trouble.
Marco_Wrc
05-13-2003, 06:40 PM
Thanks Ray and others,
It got me troubled at first, but in the end I went on working on it. It's finished now, that's to say, the technical part is working. Now the fine tuning begins. I need to work on proper English/grammer on the different parts of the site.
If anyone wants to help on this, drop me a note, and I'll register you as a user.
I'll be back with more information later. It's late, I need to rest now :)
It got me troubled at first, but in the end I went on working on it. It's finished now, that's to say, the technical part is working. Now the fine tuning begins. I need to work on proper English/grammer on the different parts of the site.
If anyone wants to help on this, drop me a note, and I'll register you as a user.
I'll be back with more information later. It's late, I need to rest now :)
Guido
05-14-2003, 12:18 PM
Why do we need to register to be able to see the pictures?
Are you planning on making it a payed access after a while?
Just wondering.
Are you planning on making it a payed access after a while?
Just wondering.
freakray
05-14-2003, 12:25 PM
I'll help you if you need Marco.....
Marco_Wrc
05-15-2003, 04:04 AM
Originally posted by huudo
Why do we need to register to be able to see the pictures?
Are you planning on making it a payed access after a while?
Just wondering.
I chose registration to view pictures for a few reasons.
1. Copyright.
2. Data traffic.
1. I can get into a lot of trouble if anyone uploads copyrighted material (and a copyright owner drags me into court for that). So, I restrict access to the site only for a selected group of people.
At this point, I only want members of automotiveforums and the rallycarmodelgroup to make use of my site.
By restricting access only to people I know, I have the opportunity to let users upload copyrighted material. No offical instance (like wrc.com) would notice.
Goal at this point is to supply good reference photo's without you having to search the internet a lot of time. Second is to be a good source for anyone who likes to see pictures of rally cars.
2. Imagine this site is a big success and everyone browsing the internet leeches my website. I would get 10gb traffic in no-time. I cannot afford that at the moment. By only letting a few people on the site I can get minimal traffic.
That's why, registration is needed for viewing pictures. To make this site commercial is out of the question. I hope I answered your question :)
Originally posted by freakray
I'll help you if you need Marco.....
Thanks, I'll contact you in a few days. But first I need to rewrite some sections.
I'm also having problems with the server, I need to fix that first. Automatic thumbnail creation failes due to an out-of-date component.
Why do we need to register to be able to see the pictures?
Are you planning on making it a payed access after a while?
Just wondering.
I chose registration to view pictures for a few reasons.
1. Copyright.
2. Data traffic.
1. I can get into a lot of trouble if anyone uploads copyrighted material (and a copyright owner drags me into court for that). So, I restrict access to the site only for a selected group of people.
At this point, I only want members of automotiveforums and the rallycarmodelgroup to make use of my site.
By restricting access only to people I know, I have the opportunity to let users upload copyrighted material. No offical instance (like wrc.com) would notice.
Goal at this point is to supply good reference photo's without you having to search the internet a lot of time. Second is to be a good source for anyone who likes to see pictures of rally cars.
2. Imagine this site is a big success and everyone browsing the internet leeches my website. I would get 10gb traffic in no-time. I cannot afford that at the moment. By only letting a few people on the site I can get minimal traffic.
That's why, registration is needed for viewing pictures. To make this site commercial is out of the question. I hope I answered your question :)
Originally posted by freakray
I'll help you if you need Marco.....
Thanks, I'll contact you in a few days. But first I need to rewrite some sections.
I'm also having problems with the server, I need to fix that first. Automatic thumbnail creation failes due to an out-of-date component.
hrmodeler
05-15-2003, 08:23 AM
If I can help you in anyhow, let me know.
I like to help you how much my time and my resources allow me. :)
E-mail me on regular mail if you want.
I like to help you how much my time and my resources allow me. :)
E-mail me on regular mail if you want.
ales
05-22-2003, 08:50 AM
Does it have to be just for rally cars? Maybe race cars? Because I'd love to see a database of touring car reference pictures (it's a nightmare trying to find BTCC Volvo 850 and really detailed pics of DTM Alfa 155 on the internet).
Marco_Wrc
05-24-2003, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by ales
Does it have to be just for rally cars? Maybe race cars? Because I'd love to see a database of touring car reference pictures (it's a nightmare trying to find BTCC Volvo 850 and really detailed pics of DTM Alfa 155 on the internet).
It only supports rally pictures. Maybe I'll expand it in the future, but probably not.
Does it have to be just for rally cars? Maybe race cars? Because I'd love to see a database of touring car reference pictures (it's a nightmare trying to find BTCC Volvo 850 and really detailed pics of DTM Alfa 155 on the internet).
It only supports rally pictures. Maybe I'll expand it in the future, but probably not.
Marco_Wrc
05-24-2003, 03:54 PM
Alright, after a short delay the site is now ready to be used.
It took some time but I'm pleased with the result.
The Rally Picture DataBase (http://www.rpdb.net) is hereby officially opened. :jump:
It took some time but I'm pleased with the result.
The Rally Picture DataBase (http://www.rpdb.net) is hereby officially opened. :jump:
ales
05-25-2003, 02:21 AM
Do you really have to have a rally forum there? Maybe just a link to this one? ;)
Sent you my registration too. Will share several pictures too, i've got some nteresting ones. And it looks very good at the moment, I love it and I hope it grows and becomes what you hope it would be. Thumbs up!
Alex
Sent you my registration too. Will share several pictures too, i've got some nteresting ones. And it looks very good at the moment, I love it and I hope it grows and becomes what you hope it would be. Thumbs up!
Alex
Guido
05-25-2003, 04:14 PM
I send in my application for registration! Indeed thumbs up!
oh and euh, yes it did answer my question ;)
oh and euh, yes it did answer my question ;)
RallyRaider
05-25-2003, 07:25 PM
Looks promising Marco, nice clean design and the Focus graphic looks great.
Submitted my registration application too!
Submitted my registration application too!
chipanggo
06-03-2003, 11:59 PM
That's a great idea! :sun:
hrmodeler
06-04-2003, 05:57 AM
I just subscribed too!:)
Focus2000
06-05-2003, 07:55 AM
You just got another request. I look forward to using these pics for my upcoming Focus WRC kit.
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