1998 3.8 Windstar 147K. No previous indications of a problem. Problem occured 5 minutes into first drive of the day while pulling away from a stop. Vehicle pulled away normally through 1st gear, trans seemed to begin to shift into second gear, but just disengaged as if being shifted into neutral. Coasting down to to a stop reengaged 1st gear as if normal, but pulling away results in the same symptoms.

Reverse works normally. Selecting gear 1 holds in gear 1 normally. All other gear selections result in no shifts past first gear. Trans fluid looks normal, speedometer and tach operate normally, and no warning lights present on dash. Problem always present, not intermittant.

Any ideas?

Hello-

The first place to start is by checking the fluid level. Could be your just low on fluid. If that's okay - how long has it been since your last transmission fluid/filter change. The consensus on this web site is at about every 20K - 30K miles you should be doing that maintenance. If you take care of those two issues and still have the problem - the next reasonable thing to do would be to replace the TRS (aka neutral safety switch). A faulty switch or connection can cause some pretty unusual symptoms - and not throw a code. After that the next most likely and least expensive would be to replace the shift solenoid 1. If you have experience maintaining your vehicle - you could do all those jobs in a long weekend for about 125 bucks.
If you did all that and still had the problem - you need to get to a transmission shop ( you may want to do this 1st depending on your level of experience) and go for a ride with the transmission analyzer hooked up and find out what the computer is doing while that tranny is fumbling for 2nd gear. If the computer is functioning properly then you more than likely have an internal issue and may be looking at a transmission rebuild.

Good Luck-
Glenn

Normally, when you select the 2nd gear on a Windstar, it should start in 2nd gear.
If it disengages suddenly in 2nd, or past the 1st gear in Drive, the problem is obviously the 2nd gear.

I don't think it's the TRS. Your torque converter seems to be good too.

Glenn says that it can be the shift solenoid 1-2, I think it's that. It's the 1st thing to check. Common failure also.

If it's not that, it can also be the 2nd gear piston clutch. But I doubt.

Thanks.

A co-worker that is an ASE MM, although mostly GM products, suggested I try a wide open throttle through first gear to try to skip second gear. He has seen the sun ring on the the front planetary set strip in one catastropic moment (no slipage leading up to the event) causing 2nd, 4th, and reverse to be lost. In that situaton the PCM doesn't detect the failure until it sets a code for extended high RPM driving.

I tried WOT to 5800 rpm (44 miles per hour) and it didn't go into third.

More questions:
Is this an electric solenid or hydraulic solenoid?
How would I check it?
Does anyone have an ATSG schmatic for this transimission?

I suggest you be VERY careful with the WOT test at 147K miles. You could be looking to replace the engine as well.

Check a recent thread from Jeckler on a hard 1 -2 shift. It will have all the solenoid information you need.

Glenn

Is this an electric solenid or hydraulic solenoid?
It's an electro-hydraulic solenoid. We are not in 15th century to have pure hydraulic system.


How would I check it?
It's located in the trans pan. Here's a photo of the precise location:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a187/swartlkk/2000%20Bravada/trans_solenoids.gif?t=1245450041

Your part is the 367a, at the left of the trans (the picture is mirrored from the reality) when you're facing the car.

To check it, you disconnect the wires, you apply current on it with the 12V battery, and you must hear a click noise.

Does anyone have an ATSG schmatic for this transimission?

Yes, there's the schema:

http://www.geocities.com/serge_saati/shift_solenoid.jpg

It's the shift solenoid 1.


If you want to skip the 1st gear, try that instead:

Put in 1 manually.
Go at 40 mph (not necessary WOT)
Release the accelerator at 15%.
Put in D directly.


You should get in 3rd.

Excellent response, thanks. Looks like I have my Saturday worked out.

About the 15th century comment: I guess I deserved that, but I'm really not a dolt; I just don't take anything for granite. I manage a maintainabilty engineering group for an company that reverse engineers engines, trans, axles, electrical systems, phenumatic, and hydraulic systems for the US military.

I really appreciate the schematic and advice, thanks again.

I was just joking. LOL

I was just joking. LOL

I know, it had to be said.

BTW, How do you like your 99? I love my 98 and I don't know how I'd feel not having the huge driver door as a trade of the driver side sliding rear door on the 99. Unfortunately, the time is drawing near when I'll need to replace it and I don't know what mini van, ford or otherwise, I'll end up with.

I like the 99 very much. Very comfortable to drive, a lot of space inside. The driver door is not so small.

When you'll replace your van, I don't recommend you a Ford again. They looks very well, but they have very bad transmission that break often. I know many peoples who have their 04-05 Freestar 4.2L needed a transmission rebuild after 50k miles only.

I suggest you a new Toyota Sienna. At least you'll have something that last, you'll have the quality.

On the rear of the tranny case, there is a "lo-range" servo and a "hi-range" servo. Behind some heat schields. They are entire hydraulic units ... pistons, springs and seals. I had a failure with a circlip breaking in the lo-range servo. Possibly was a freak ... but gave symptoms similar to yours .. IIRC.

Not the easiest things to reach ... best to lower the rear of the sub-frame a bit.

Have the same problem. Looks like this:
http://rapidshare.com/files/373797851/wolnobieg1.mp4
http://rapidshare.com/files/373797942/wolnobieg2.mp4
Oil level is OK, running about 17k miles. Previous change was made after 15k miles.
I called this a "freewheel" as I remember such clutch in oldie cars.
This happens only when engine/AT is cold. After a while (up to 1 mile) it starts to work without any problems. I heard (can't find post) that shift valve should be changed every 60k miles. wiswind - are you still using Auto RX?
The topic is quite old but maybe someone will write how problem was solved...

PS> I found this: http://www.aa1car.com/library/transmission_ford_ax4s.htm although theres no answer to topic, might be usefull...

Your transmission is done. The problem is not the second gear clutch, but the 1-2 piston clutch. Or maybe the 1-2 shift valve. It takes time to shift to the 2nd.

The original poster had replaced his Windstar by a Freestar. I think it's how he gets rid of the problem.

I found that Ford recommends replacing EPC every 90kkm (60k miles). Could malfunction of EPC cause such problems and only when engine/AT is cold? As its getting warmer every day, the tranny starts to shift earlier.

No, I don't think it's the EPC. Cause this one controls the torque converter, which affect all gears, not just the second. TC is like the clutch of a manual car. You can't even run in 1st if it malfunctions.

In an automatic, you have many clutches bands, but it's not a clutch bands problem.
It doesn't slip. So I think it's a piston clutch problem. The one who activate the clutch bands.

Or the shift valve that activate the piston clutch.

I don't know why it happens only when it's cold. Maybe because there's more pressure when it's getting hot, so piston clutch activates more easily.

I bought and replaced all solenoids (3xshift, TCC and EPC) and no improvement. This was to be done (as it might help) before taking the tranny out. The mechanics says that I probably don't have proper oil pressure. But why this happens only when it's cold and stops after driving for about 1 mile? Oil was clean, no signs of burning, no mess in the oil pan...

Have you taken a look at the two servos on the rear of the tranny?

The mechanics says that I probably don't have proper oil pressure. But why this happens only when it's cold and stops after driving for about 1 mile? Oil was clean, no signs of burning, no mess in the oil pan...

Because like I said, when oil heats up, pressure increase. So yes, maybe the trans oil pump was weak, but it would affect all gears, not just the 2nd. So it's not that.

It's why I said I think it's a bad 1-2 shift valve. It might be stuck (caused by deformation or perforation). When it heats, the pressure helps to open.

It's why I said I think it's a bad 1-2 shift valve. It might be stuck (caused by deformation or perforation). When it heats, the pressure helps to open.
I've replaced all three shift solenoids. Unless there's other valve that should be replaced... "caused by deformation" - don't know the English name but is it the 'Main steering board" that could be deformed by overheating the tranny? The problem is not the second gear clutch, but the 1-2 piston clutch. Or maybe the 1-2 shift valve. Where is the piston clutch?

12ounce - aren't those two servos responsible for reverse and OD function? If yes, could it cause problems only between 1 and 2 gear? What other functions have those servos?

wiswind wrote in his very useful "General Windstar Information": A very common, inexpensive failure with the transmission not shifting correctly is caused by the Transmission Range Sensor ( TRS) which is also called Neutral Safety switch. For more information on this, do a search on " TRS "...
I was thinking of that, but if it's TRS then problems should be on all gears not only shifting 1-2. Searching forum I found that TRS is responsible to pass information what gear is selected while my tranny behaves like loosing a gear. When I slow down it engages 1 gear whithout any problem, and then again looses it till 1 mile driving.

The two servos can be thought of as hydraulic "amplifiers" ... they convert a small oil signal from the control circuits into larger forces that engage the clutches. They are necessary in all clutch engagements and shifting. They are bi-directional and only two required for 4 forward speeds and reverse. They consist of o-ring seals, springs, cyls, pistons .... pretty easy stuff, just hard to get to.

I've replaced all three shift solenoids. Unless there's other valve that should be replaced... "caused by deformation" - don't know the English name but is it the 'Main steering board" that could be deformed by overheating the tranny? Where is the piston clutch?

Ok then, I think your problem is definitively the 1-2 piston clutch pack (not band). It's located inside the transmission near the planetary gear sets. You need an overhaul to replace it. Very hard to do it. So I suggest you to replace the whole transmission instead.


wiswind wrote in his very useful "General Windstar Information": A very common, inexpensive failure with the transmission not shifting correctly is caused by the Transmission Range Sensor ( TRS) which is also called Neutral Safety switch. For more information on this, do a search on " TRS "...
I was thinking of that, but if it's TRS then problems should be on all gears not only shifting 1-2. Searching forum I found that TRS is responsible to pass information what gear is selected while my tranny behaves like loosing a gear. When I slow down it engages 1 gear whithout any problem, and then again looses it till 1 mile driving.

I'm sure the problem is not the TRS in your case. Like you said, it would happen to each gear (include 1st) and rev up would not help. I remember in your video, when you rev up, gear change helps.
TRS problem would cause the transmission to go down in neutral, not in 1st.

Your problem is obviously not electric. Unfortunately not. It's purely mechanical.

And like I said, when fluid heats up, pressure increases, and it helps actuating piston clutch to activate the gear sets.

>But why this happens only when it's cold and stops after driving for about 1 mile?

I have not torn down the ATX, and I'm only familiar with the repair of automatic transaxels in principle rather than practice, so for ultimate help I defer to the other posters.

However, I think one possible explaination for this symptom is a bad seal in the hydraulic path. For example the servos metioned by 12Ounce, which are hydraulic pistons, have rings to seal the high pressure fluid in the chamber. I think the function of the servos is apply the force that holds the bands on the planetary gear assemblies, which is how the different gear ratios are realized. If the servos are leaking, then the applied force is low, and the band doesn't grab the gear.

Since the hydraulic fluid gets thinner as this heats up, a leak around a seal would be more noticable at higher temperatures. There are probably other wear points in the transmission that would allow fluid to leak, for example, the valves in the valve body.

A transmission shop should have a control unit that will override the PCM and allow the mechanic to actuate the individual parts of the transmission to isolate problems like this one.

However, I think one possible explaination for this symptom is a bad seal in the hydraulic path. For example the servos metioned by 12Ounce, which are hydraulic pistons, have rings to seal the high pressure fluid in the chamber. I think the function of the servos is apply the force that holds the bands on the planetary gear assemblies, which is how the different gear ratios are realized. If the servos are leaking, then the applied force is low, and the band doesn't grab the gear.

I 100% agree with that. I blown ring seal of the puston clutch could be the cause.
However, the transmission still need to be removed and rebuilded.

I've translated the whole thread for my mechanic. To give him a clue...
> If the servos are leaking, then the applied force is low, and the band doesn't grab the gear.
Since the hydraulic fluid gets thinner as this heats up, a leak around a seal would be more noticable at higher temperatures.
Maybe I'm wrong but: if the ATF gets thinner at higher temp, then such a leak should be more noticeable when hot, not when cold. Unless it's not a leak, but blocked channel, valve etc. which prevents fluid in getting where it should.
If the "main steering board" (whats the proper name?) is deformed then this could be a cause. When it heats up, it gets its proper dimension/position/flatness/diameters and allows the pistons to work properly and the fluid will pass through. But usually such overheated AT behaves opposite way - shifts properly when cold and have problems when temperature goes up.
I found on the forum a test: drive with 1st gear up to 40mph and switch to D. This should cause the tranny to switch form 1 to 3.
But I'm a bit afraid of such experiments. Is there any other way to force the tranny to switch from 1st to 3rd gear?
Is there a way to put tranny (safely) in limp mode? Then it should run only on 2'd gear and I'll check if it gets it when cold.

PS. if there's any misspelling, grammatic mistakes let me know via private message and I'll correct my posts.

When ATF heats up, it gets thinner and it expanses. So pressure increases and it helps, even if the leaks increase a little bit inside.

About the blocked channel, it makes senses theoretically. But it's not probable. I never heard about a blocked transmission channel. It may be blocked if your ATF was black and if your transmission slips, which indicate burned clutch bands. But if it's clean and no slip, no reasons to be blocked.

About the valve body deformation when it's cold, it just makes no senses. A slight change in temp would not not cause to deform completely and reform at each time. Valves body in Windstar are made to resist to transmission temperature.

The tricks to passes directly from 1 to 3 may works, but it's not good for both engine and transmission. Cause you will rev up at 5500rpm, and the rpm drops is too much while gears change, and it's not good. There's no other ways to bypass the 2nd gear.

Have you taken a look at the two servos on the rear of the tranny?

Back with the same problem. Servos have been replaced but problem still exists. What was strange that next morning after replacing servos the tranny worked perfectly. But after few hours problems returned. During work they replaced servos, and of course disconnecting battery, connectors to tranny and a reset was performed. I thought that maybe reset helped but disconnecting battery overnight didn't help. Could such problems be caused by wrong electrical connections? Where are those connectors? Maybe I'll try to clean them up with some contact cleaner and then WD-40? Next week I'm appointed for tranny rebuild but maybe some other suggestion before they take everything out.

Do a final test drive. When it's cold, drive the van in 2nd gear position. It'll run in 2nd all the time. Do few mile below 25 mph.

If the the problem disappears, it's something electrical. But I doubt it'll be.

The job was done a month ago so its persistent. I don't know if there's a difference between AX4N and AX4S but in mine tranny, if I put it in 2, it switches between 1 and 2. The rest is normal: positon 1 - only 1st gear, position D with overdrive blocked makes changes 1-2-3, and putting overdrive on makes all changes 1-2-3-4. When tranny looses gear I can force it to engage 1st gear by switching to 1 or simply slow down till it engages 1st gear on its own. And still this happens only during first mile driving.