Sounds like a LAwnmower, Help!

Jmrec100 · 06-02-2009, 10:23 PM

I had my oil changed this morning. And the trouble started. When I drove away, it seemed ok. Then got down almost home, it would take forever to shift up. When it did , seemed ok. Then it went really bad. Seemed to stay in low gears, ran terrible. Noticed the speedometer wasn't working. It clicked. They disconnected the Vehicle Speed sensor to change the filter. I called them and asked . They admitted they had forgotten to reattached it. I let the car cool, jacked it up and reattached it. Ran fine. I drove it about 50 miles to do some things. Parked for about 30 minutes. When I started the car to leave, it sounded like a lawnmower. No power, and missing sound I guess. But sounds like a lawnmower. Would a fuel filter do this? I am changing it anyway. But I remember the guy asking me what kind of oil it was I had. I use Castrol 5-30W Semi Synthetic. Have for years. I am wondering now, was there a problem with the oil? Would water or condensation in the oil cause maybe the worst? Spun bearings? Camshaft? Or could it be as simple as fuel filter, fuel pump? Coincident. Smoked the valves? Any clues?

Jmrec100 · 06-03-2009, 12:51 AM

One more thing, I poured some valve cleaner into the oil. I do this periodically just before an oil change. But I added it now since I had a power problem. Thinking that a stuck valve, or something, I used it before and it worked in my old VW Vanagon years ago. It went another 2000 miles before I decided to tear it down. A side note, its still a project still waiting for me to put it back together.
But after I poured the stuff in, there was now an oil smell of this cleaner from the exhaust? Is it an indication of burned valves?

I am doing another complete oil change and see if it helps? Also change fuel filter but I do not think that is the problem.
Fuel Pump in the tank? Possible?

J-Ri · 06-03-2009, 08:27 PM

In the future, please post the engine size and year.

There is very, very little chance that the fuel filter would cause that, so little that I would almost say it's impossible. 99.99999999999999% it's something else. I don't see oil causing that problem either, at least anything name brand. Did you check that there is actually oil in it? I had a 2.4L in a grand am that I'm pretty sure spun a rod bearing, I never tore it down so I'm not sure, but it was acting similar to yours. At idle I would describe the sound as a rapid tick/knock and revved up it did sound a bit like a lawn mower. I would stay away from adding anything to the oil, with the exception of additive packages which add to the additives that are already in the oil when you buy it. NOT the cleaners, they dissolve the oil and destroy it's lubricating properties, which is terrible on the bearings. If you have a problem, adding cleaners can "fix" it for a short time (as on your VW), but should never be used as maintenance. Most people think that draining the oil gets it all out, but you get about a quart of oil that stays around the bearings (designed this way to eliminate dry starts), which means you still have 20% of the original concentration still in the oil even if you let the oil drain until there are minutes between drips.

Fuel pump is a possibility, but again I doubt it. Check the fuel pressure.

Jmrec100 · 06-04-2009, 01:59 PM

Thanks for the response. It’s a 1999 2.2L Cavalier.
It’s not missing or ticking. Just no power, and literally sounds like a lawnmower. I smell oil additive from the exhaust. I drained it next morning when I had it towed home. Blown rings? It had full oil. Drained it and flushed it with 2 quarts of oil. I am now changing the oil and new filter. I understand about oil staying in the bearings when draining it. I was thinking of filling with trans fluid since its lubricating and thin so it will flow around. Then drain it again and New filter. I just want to get the car running for a few more weeks, then I will enroll at the local college with a auto shop and tear it down. Thinking of buying a used motor on ebay, put it in and then rebuild mine . Is ebay reliable for used motors? Good comments back on some of the sellers.

How to check the fuel pressure? I have various gauges I can hook up. Should I tee it off and run the car? I do agree that I doubt it's the fuel pump. Scared that it might be spun bearings?
I have a second engine that I inherited - Blown engine that I can scavenge some parts off of it. I think the lower end is bad on this motor. Really suckie life right now with this too. Appreciate any help.

Jmrec100 · 06-04-2009, 10:34 PM

Strange code readings

PO200 Ejector Circuit Open
PO502 Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) Low Output
PO742 Torque Converter System Stuck on
PO200 P

When the VSS wire was left off, this caused PO502, PO742 since no feedback and the converter stayed in limbo.

The PO200 P confuses me. Why the "P" at the end of the last code reading. And all of a sudden after an oil change?
But something seems rather strange. I take my car in for a straight oil change, and 40 miles later, all hell breaks loose with these codes. I am wondering if someone screwed with my computer cables since the VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor) was left off. Then later all these other things? The ejector circuit open? Where is the computer? On the passenger side under a bunch of stuff I remember? What should I be checking?
Thanks, Too strange a coincident?

Jmrec100 · 06-04-2009, 11:08 PM

MORE INFO:

The scanner gave more codes. I don't understand quite what it is telling me.I read it with the car off, per the instructions

MIL

Misfire .........Ready
Fuel .............Ready
CCM ............Ready
CAT .............Ready
HCM ............N/A
Evap ...........NOT READY *****
2AIR ............N/A
AC................N/A
O2S .............NOT READY *****
HO2S ...........READY
EGR ..............N/A
MIL ...............ON

The O2S and EVAP Not Ready. That is bothersome. What should I look at.
The O2 sensors are on the Exhaust manifold and after the catalytic converter. I can check the connections. Could it be anything else? How do I check the O2 sensors?
Now the evap is for fuel recirculation?, right? I can check connections but anything else? Or is it waiting for the car to be on for it to be pressurized?

The "P" means pending? What does that mean?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"P" means Pending.
One more code. I am clearing room so I can dig into the car. I moved the car and read another code since it is missing so bad. There was some white smoke. Blown head gasket? It was still cold. The VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor) was still disconnected when I moved the car.

PO300 ... Random misfire on all cylinders

Would the Ejectors cause this? and blown head gasket? Is a head gasket difficult to do on this car. Haven't done it in several years (On other cars)?

J-Ri · 06-06-2009, 07:33 PM

I wouldn't add any trans fluid to the crankcase, it's lubricating properties are different than engine oil, it's crush strength isn't nearly what engine oil is. The fuel lines have quick connects below the master cylinder, that's the easiest place to check pressure.

For P0200, check that the injector circuit has continuity between the wires at the PCM. There could be a problem with a main connector causing high resistance or even an intermittent open. The "P" at the end may mean pending, all the scan tools I have used have a graphic display and actually say "pending". Check the owners manual for the code reader. It's not uncommon for problems to start after an oil change, and people usually want to blame the shop. I usually say it's a random problem and a coincidence and to stop trying to blame the shop. There's a 1 in 30 chance that a problem will start within 100 miles of an oil change. In this case, however, I also have to wonder if they might have screwed with something. I have done a number of oil changes on those, and have never once had to remove any connector to get to the filter. It also seems odd that two of the monitors are "not ready" The "not ready" on the system monitors means the conditions to run the tests have not been meet since the codes were cleared and the test has not been run. Have you cleared the codes in the past few weeks? That's usually all it takes for the conditions to be met and the test to run. It's possible that they did something wrong, tried a temporary fix, cleared the codes, and it ran for a while. Unfortunately, unless you can find the actual problem and prove that they caused it, you're out of luck. I'm not sure where the PCM is on the '99s.

You don't need to check the O2 sensor connectors, if there was a problem with the sensor or circuit, there would be a code for the O2 sensors. The not ready, as stated above, just means the test conditions (which include fuel level in a certain range, startup ECT in a certain range and within "X" degrees of IAT temp, TPS must be in a certain range, and a couple other things) have not been meet. EVAP is the evaporative emission controls. It includes a charcoal canister, vent and purge valves, and hoses. The charcoal canister absorbs fuel vapors while the engine is off, idling or at WOT to keep the fuel vapors from being released into the atmosphere. While cruising, the PCM commands the vent and purge solenoids to open and the vapors are sucked into the engine and burned. Same deal with that "not ready".

White smoke usually means water or coolant being burnt which usually means a head gasket on an inline engine. Check the compression. Is the coolant low? Injectors (or the circuit for them) can cause a p0300, as can a head gasket. This is one of the easiest head gaskets to do. If you determine that the head gasket is bad, be sure to check the block and the head with a straightedge. If either is out of spec for flatness, have it machined. I have heard people say to use sandpaper glued to a piece of plywood... don't do that, no matter how many they say they've done with "no problems so far".

Jmrec100 · 06-07-2009, 02:04 AM

Thanks. I was hoping you could answer my questions.

When you talk abut the "Not Ready" and conditions on the system monitors means the conditions to run the tests have not been meet since the codes were cleared and the test has not been run. What do you mean the test has not been run? The car PGM will automatically run its own test? I had not cleared any codes or anything like that. Only since this mess started has all this shown up. Should I clear the codes now and then run the engine to see what codes show up now?

I do suspect that the oil shop did something. It was one of those shops that was sued a few years ago with undercover cameras. And there are ads here for them. This shop has changed personnel from the people who I trusted for a few years. Usually they did some goofy things I had to check (not too awful) but this occasion it was weird. They do all this "consulting" gimmick to sell more for your car. The guy I talked to knew Alot about cars and was hinting at alot of work being needed. He said that removing the sensor makes it easier to remove the filter but that is true but you do NOT forget to plug it in unless intentional in my opinion. I do suspect some foul play to make the car run erratic and come back in. I now finally have a chance to check out the car more thoroughly tomorrow. I suspect some wires were "loosened". If I can prove with any reasonable suspicion I will pursue it. It makes me mad because I put alot of mileage on this car. Change the oil EVERY MONTH. And they did the oil changes in the past. Too many things. They suggested fuel -ejector flush, coolant flush, trans flush. Imagine all of a sudden fuel ejector problems? I had the ejectors serviced by a shop I trust and have for years. Get the trans taken care of too. He was right about needing coolant service BUT I am suspicious about the coincident. Monday I may tow the car to another shop I do trust if I don't find anything.

I may get the fuel analyzed by a lab we use at work if I think its needed. I hate crooks if this is the case. I'll keep you posted.

And I get your post about the plywood and sandpaper. It may work but trees just aren't that "straight". A machine piece of stainless steel is more reasonable. but ... I do believe in the right way.
And thanks again for the help, the detail. Really appreciate the forum, especially good people here.

Jmrec100 · 06-07-2009, 02:06 PM

What do you mean the test has not been run?

J-Ri · 06-08-2009, 10:25 PM

You don't need to double post. I won't see 2 quicker than I see 1

I am "borrowing" my neighbors wireless, so sometimes I disconnect and can't reply to every post. If I reply to a few and not to yours, this is the cause.

The PCM runs tests on each system to determine whether there is a problem. Something like "if x>y then set code z", just comparing values to the predetermined acceptable range. The test is what makes the codes show up. If a test has not yet been run, there will be no codes related to that system. EVAP takes a long time because the pressure in the system is so small (actually vacuum most of the time) that the margins for error are very small, so it must be run in a very narrow range. O2S, I believe should be ready after 2 drive cycles. It's only requirement, I believe, is for the engine run time to be greater than "x" and the ECT to be greater than "y". Do not clear the codes, this will reset the monitors as well, which will make codes take longer. Only clear codes after you fix something.

It's really too bad when some under-trained, inexperienced crooks try to sell things that aren't broke. The "sell everything" doesn't always mean it's a bad shop though. We check just about everything on the car. If it needs it, we try to sell it. If it doesn't, we don't. No pressure, just "you need this part, would you like to schedule an appointment?". If they say no, that's it. Usually they end up coming back for it after looking at it or having someone else do so. Ask around your area and see what other people think of various shops. A few good people to ask are businesses with a fleet of vehicles, delivery drivers (parts stores, UPS, Fex-Ex, etc), and tool vendors (Mac, Matco, Snap-on, etc.). Asking vehicle owners is good too, but most people find a shop that isn't "too bad" and stay with them because they are acceptable.

Jmrec100 · 06-15-2009, 11:39 PM

I am just going thru the car now. -Finally-. I am sort of planning to do the head gasket but is there anything else I should be doing when I do the heads?
I was 'smelling " the oil since it didn't look foamy but did look a little light. It smelled with a different odor than just oil. Could be water? From a blown Head gasket? That would cause the "lawnmowing" and also all the ejector error codes, etc? I had started it to move up into the garage. If there was water in the oil, Im assuming then a good chance of blowing the head gasket at the very least.
The exhaust smells like the oil did. So probably a blown head gasket? Telltale white smoke...Am I on the right track. What else can I do besides check the computer, connections before doing the head? I called Autozone they have the head set around $30. Also the head bolts at $26. From the posts, I do use New Bolts. I can check the surface with visual and a square. Can I have AutoZone or another parts store check the heads for cracks? Its been awhile, so I expect about 5 hours? Need torque wrench, valve spring compressing tool and ? I don't use any type gasket sealer-right? I'll probably call for help from a friend. Buy him pizza.

J-Ri · 06-16-2009, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmrec100

...is there anything else I should be doing when I do the heads?

Heads? I thought it had the 2.2 in it? :-D

Did you ever check the injector circuit or check for spark across all the cylinders? Having an injector spraying way too much gas or having no spark on at least one cylinder could cause your problem. If you didn't do that already, check before you replace the head gasket. Is the coolant low? Some white smoke on startup is somewhat common, I assume just condensation burning off. If it keeps smoking after startup, I'd say the head gasket is probably bad. You might want to try getting a "spill free funnel" for the cooling system. It has an adapter the goes on the coolant reservoir (may need to purchase the adapter seperate) and then the funnel goes on top of that. Fill the funnel to where there's a couple inches in the bottom and start the engine. If you keep getting air bubbles and the frequency between them stays about the same or speeds up once the thermostat opens, the head gasket is bad. Did you ever check the compression? Pull the plugs and see what they're like, flakey white deposits on the end means you're burning coolant. While it's entirely possible the head gasket is bad, I don't think that's what's making it run like it is. I would think that a bad head gasket would start gradually, not just start all at once.

You are correct, use new head bolts. Check the surfaces with a straightedge and a feeler gauge. Check it lengthwise across the outsides and across the center of the combustion chambers, check it diagonally both ways, and check it widthwise at each cyinder and between cylinders. You'll probably want to pick up a repair manual for this spec and others. I'm not too sure on having it checked for cracks... probably not an auto parts store but you could ask them. I'm sure an engine shop could do it for you. No sealer on the head gasket or EGR (any metal gaskets). It's OK to use something like Permatex UltraBlack on rubber gaskets if there's a gouge in a surface

Jmrec100 · 06-16-2009, 06:41 PM

It is 2.2L. Maybe I am using the wrong terminology.
It is continual white smoke. Not alot , but continuous. I understand about start up and condensation burning off. But it's not that. Its the smell that I notice which makes me suspect blown gasket. Smells "moist" (?) I guess, like a burned smell? I will check the plugs tonight. And borrow a set of gauges (AutoZone) if I can to check compression or stop at Harbor Freight and buy a set.
I will tell you what I find. I need to get this going soon and without alot of money. Times are tough right now.

J-Ri · 06-16-2009, 10:48 PM

I was just giving ya crap for using the plural of head since our engines have only one. I knew what you meant, I'm just like that

I'm not really questioning that the head gasket may be bad, in fact it does sound like it is beginning to leak. I just doubt that it is the cause of the running bad since it was all at once. The plug gaps becoming bridged with contamination would make it run bad, but probably wouldn't start all at once. What about the coolant level? How low is it, and has any coolant been added? That sure doesn't mean I'm saying not to fix the head gasket if it's leaking, just expect an electrical or mechanical problem in addition to it. I still think you need to check the injector circuit since you have a code for it. Having a point of high resistance would cause the injectors to open slowly and deliver less fuel than they should. The lean mix could also be detonating and making the "lawnmower" noise. A bad O2 sensor could fail to report this and not set a code since the monitors are "not ready".

Jmrec100 · 06-17-2009, 12:34 AM

Thanks. But there are 2 heads. Yes really. The car has one . And I have one. Mine is cracked I know and leaking whatever brain matter I have left. Now I will check on the car.

I am thinking back and the coolant may have been "disappearing". I added to the overflow about 2 months ago. Then it looked fine. It did change to a clear water color, like the antifreeze is gone? hmm, maybe the head gasket did finally give out. I just got the compression set from AutoZone (on loan- nice place) and will go check it now. Let you know the readings. I read a separate post here on the 2.4L. Said the readings should run around 200psi. Is that true for this 2.2L as well?
Thanks

++++++++++++++++++++++
Update. I didn't get to do the compression test yet. Have the gauge. I did clean the spark plug walls and looked at the plugs. I didn't have the Haynes manual with me so here goes. Standing at the front of the engine, from the passenger side to the right. Number 1 is passenger and the drivers side would be #4 as I will describe it.
When I pulled the spark plug wires off, I found a ring of Oil and/or water(?), around plug #1 cavity. There was some around #4 but much more around #1. I wiped it up before pulling the plugs. The cavity for Plugs #2,#3 were ok,- no oil/water pooled, just dirty cavities. I cleaned the walls before removing the plugs. I expected to see bad things in #1 and #4. But really didn't The plugs were all worn out. The center electrode came to a point except for #1 which looked thicker electrode, no point. Plugs #1 and #4 were darker. with #2 and #3 both lighter brownish. Will do compression test tomorrow.

Plugs 3 and 4

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