no start when raining, cranks fine

2000izusu · 05-03-2008, 05:35 PM

Hey all,
the 92 camry 5sfe i sold to my brother now has 239,000 miles and this morning when it was raining it would crank crank crank, no start

. the coil was replaced by a toyota dealer at 170,000.

am i right to assume that the coil is bad after 69,000 miles? the car did start fine later in the day when the rain had cleared (4 hours later). i was going to replace the coil, cap rotor, plugs and wires. anything else i should replace?

Lastly i did lots of searching before posting! i am assuming that the ohm readings in the faq will be within spec if i ohm it when it is dry out? seeing how the problem is intermittant (when it rains) i may get the proper ohms on the test, i am thinking about just replacing the coil whether it ohms out fine or not? mike

p.s. what is a good aftermarket coil brand name?

DFBonnett · 05-04-2008, 09:45 AM

In my experience the most common cause of a problem such as yours is failing plug wires. If you're due for new plugs you might change the cap and rotor also as you noted. I'm not sure I'd bother with the coil at this time. As a quick and dirty diagnostic you might wait until dark then mist the wires with a spray bottle filled with water and see if you note any arcing.
FWIW
YMMV

2000izusu · 05-04-2008, 05:45 PM

cool! i will try that! i got plenty of mister bottles. i was also going to go over the cap and look for any cracks also. i am getting the car dropped off tuesday night. so i will start inspecting and diagnosis then..

the car currently has bosch platinum plugs in it(i know i know,crappy plug), with 40,000 miles on them. any recommendations on plugs for this car?
anybody know what type of plug came in it new ?(platinum, intridium, copper core?)

Mike Gerber · 05-04-2008, 10:25 PM

The misting of the wires after dark is a good place to start. If you see sparks, then replace the plug wires. If the cap and rotor are original, I would also replace them. They are cheap enough. I would hold off on replacing the coil since you said "the coil was replaced by a toyota dealer at 170,000." An OEM coil should last more than 69,000 miles. If the wires, cap and rotor don't cure the problem, then go ahead and replace the coil again.

Also, I believe the original plugs were double platinum (tip and ground) and were either NGK or Denso. If you are going to replace the plugs, I would go with the those choices. However, even though I am not found of Bosch plugs in Toyotas, I don't think the plugs are causing the no start condition when wet/damp out. That's usually caused by wires, cap and rotor, or coil as you mentioned earlier.

Mike

2000izusu · 05-05-2008, 09:26 AM

thanks! i will find the stock plug local then. i will keep everybody informed. when i start the work tomorrow! mike

2000izusu · 05-07-2008, 05:26 PM

hey all!

i got things apart and found what i think is a cracked coil! i got a pictures below so you all can tell me if it is cracked. i also have a leaking distributor o-ring so out comes the distributor friday.

here is the coil! is that a crack below toyota's name (really above the toyota name but on the lower part of the coil, toyota name in the pic is upside down!). the crack (what i think is a crack) uneven and sharp!

Here is a pick of the oil leak in the bottom the the distributor cap!

Here are a pic of the plugs, all within gap, and they don't look to bad!

And here are some general pics of the car and motor. it is used well as you can see. my bro is going thru a divorce (3 years now

) and this is what he can afford, plus i gave him a good discount on it. 239,000 miles but we have put a good amount of maintenance wear items in it (NOT complaining)!

2000izusu · 05-07-2008, 05:28 PM

here is a worse pic of the coil, sorry about light!

jdmccright · 05-08-2008, 12:32 PM

Well the oil in the distributor is definitely a problem, but that's not why I'm posting this. I will say though that maybe oil has gotten into that crack and ruined the coil. It appears discolored along the crack, indicating something has been absorbed/wicked into that gap.

I'm actually going to comment on the Bosch Pt plugs you've got pictured.

I ran those same plugs in my '92 and while they lasted a good long time, the way the ceramic tip is made you cannot get a true gap reading. When they are new, the Pt and ceramic are flush to the end flat (i.e. the center Pt electrode doesn't protrude from the ceramic end). As the plug wears, the narrow conductive Pt that is encircled by that white tip becomes eroded and wears down into the tip, below the end flat...the ceramic doesn't wear away thus keeping the same distance with the ground electrode. After 60k miles, the actual gap can increase significantly. I recently replaced mine and I saw erosion into the tip of more than 1/16" (0.0625") on some of the plugs. After replacing them (with Autolite Pt, I think...those have fully exposed metallic center electrodes), the car ran significantly smoother.

Finally, take a good look at all your plug and coil wires for abrasion or liquid impregnation damage, then check the ends for rust, corrosion, or contamination. Also do an electrical resistance test on them to verify they are still conducting well...flex the wires while doing this to see if there are any breaks.

2000izusu · 05-09-2008, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmccright

As the plug wears, the narrow conductive Pt that is encircled by that white tip becomes eroded and wears down into the tip, below the end flat...the ceramic doesn't wear away thus keeping the same distance with the ground electrode. After 60k miles, the actual gap can increase significantly. I recently replaced mine and I saw erosion into the tip of more than 1/16" (0.0625") on some of the plugs.

good point i had thought that the ceramic part was the platinum, but now that i look closer you are right! definatly can't tell the gap when they are used! i have always heard bad news about bosch platinum ( such as throwing mis-fire codes in odb2 cars), but at the time i needed plugs bad and bosch were handy (any port in a storm). i now have some ngk's i found local!

well i start back to work on it in an hour, i'll keep you all posted! mike

2000izusu · 05-10-2008, 03:01 PM

hello again! i got the new coil, wires, plugs cap, rotor and distributor o-ring on. she is runnin smooth! since the last coil was put in by a toyota dealership tech, i found what was an interesting practice by the dealer to seal the bottom of the distributor! they ran a bead of silicon around bottom of the coil where it seals up against the distributor cap. i guess to keep moisture out and to avoid come backs. so i did the same thing to the new coil. i got a pic below of the "dealership trick"! now the top of the cap is sealed buy a rubber gasket. mike

silicon added by the dealership tech: and the final vedict yes it is a crack and a big one!

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