EDIT: NEW START & THREAD SUMMARY AT POST #129: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=5849490#post5849490
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Start of original thread:

Description of Problems:
1. I'm getting 9 - 11mpg on a new Jasper engine
2. Idle pulses/hunts constantly in Park from 600 - 800 rpms
3. Sometimes under accel/load driving the van jerks. Its actually hard to describe what it does, but its as if it can't make up its mind about going forward or possibly what gear its in or like it isn't getting gas or something.
4. Engine attempts to stall IMMEDIATELY following the radiator cooling fans turning OFF. This has made me think perhaps the CCRM is going bad because I don't know what else would do this unless its an electrical (bad ground) issue.

I'm not sure if the 2 (MPG and idle pulsing) are related, but I believe them to be.

I believe the van is running a little hot at idle. It has gotten up to between the R and M which is higher than it ever used to go though I observed this with only the Ypipe attached and the rest of the exhaust wasn't which may have had something to do with it. It religiously used to stay between the M and the A on the temp gauge and since the new engine its always in the M to R range on the temp gauge. Was thinking it could be that I didn't use a Motorcraft thermostat, but it also could be related to the idle and MPG issues.

Things tried:
New cats (Magnaflow ypipe)
New cat-back exhaust upgrade (Borla discontinued model)
New O2s (putting old ones back in after cleaning them if they still work from cleaning)
Cleaned MAS/AFM
New engine
New plugs and wires
Rebuilt tranny 20k old
New VSS
New TRS (neutral safety switch)
New water pump
New IAC
New thermostat (not motorcraft, but supposed to be OEM temp)
New radiator with system flush
New PCM
New battery
Regrounded alternator with better cable
New DPFE sensor
New coolant/heater hoses
New ABS HCU
New alternator pulley (tracking down a squeaky belt)
New compressor clutch assembly (though I've noticed now the compressor is leaking)
New power steering pump and filter
New accumulator for a/c
New brakes/pads in front (no drag)
New (fairly) pcv valve though I could check it again
New air filter (K&N)
New fuel filter 8k miles ago

Thoughts!?:
1. Plug gap accurate? Supposed to have been set from factory - Autolite Iridiums

2. VSS (speed sensor) - The new gear I had it come with. I'm hoping I was not given the wrong gear from the 3.0L engine as they said they made sure it was for the 3.8L engine, but this could cause bad MPG.

3. Alternator/Grounds - Tests fine a while back (could test again with my multimeter) and always has though I have my eye on it for failure as just about everything else is new. I almost want to replace it just because its so old (158k), but as the O2 sensors have shown me I probably shouldn't. I am worried though about the grounding in the engine bay as if I were to remove the cable from the alternator to the frame the van will not function AT ALL and I mean no power to anything inside. Is that normal? Could this mean the battery isn't grounded well at the negative terminal/cable?

I have also noticed the instrument panel lights dim out a lil bit after I let off the accelerator and then they come back to normal brightness instantly. There are times too when I press either door lock buttons or window buttons on either door that there is absolutely no response and it takes a repress of these buttons to get the locks/windows to work. Does this speak to a ground issue?

4. Could the a/c compressor leaking cause drag on the serp belt?

5. CCRM?

6. Ultimate question: Why does the van try to stall when the radiator fans TURN OFF and ONLY at this point? It attempts to stall at NO OTHER time.

7. Should the coolant fully remove from the coolant reservoir? It stays at COLD level even when hot. Also, the tranny cooler was never cleaned or replaced after my overheating and water pump failure. I'm unaware since I didn't install it if there is coolant or just tranny oil going through the tranny cooler. The cooler I'm talking about is in front of the radiator at the very front of the van and looks like a mini-radiator.

On my other car when the coolant temperature reaches the same temperature (within about 3 - 5 degrees at MAX) the cooling fans kick on. Apparently from observation my Windstar isn't turning on the cooling fans consistently. The temperature seems to variate a lot bouncing between the R and M and A on the temp gauge before the fans kick on. Could this indicate a faulty coolant temp sensor (ECT)?

The shop manual says the coolant reservoir helps to maintain the correct volume of engine coolant. I have let the van sit running for 30 minutes several times and the coolant level in the reservoir NEVER changed. The manual points to obstruction in the coolan reservoir line or a faulty radiator cap. I think after all I've spent spending a few bucks more to get a new rad cap is worth it. I'm gonna pull and inspect the reservoir hose as well. I'm approaching this for once now with "lets deal with the symptoms" rather than the backwards way and the symptoms are that the temperature gauge is not holding steady like it used to on the old high mileage engine, when the cooling fans turn OFF the van tries to stall at idle and the coolant reservoir level NEVER changes.

You might try a new radiator cap....as cheap as they are.
Mine gave me problems in maintaining pressure......I had to keep messing with it as I kept finding that it was not holding pressure.
I got the normal cap.....no pressure release thing....just one that was just like the OE one.

I don't know if a new CCRM would help or not.
Only way to know is to change it.......more money....but then it is old.
Mine needed replacing 2 times......the 2nd time was because the A/C relay was not holding the A/C compressor on.....following the A/C cycling on and off a lot when the A/C charge went down......due to a leak in the evaporator coil.
So....the CCRM might be worth a try.

Another test.....you could try unplugging the radiator fans VERY TEMPORARILY to see if the stumble still happens.

The tranny cooler inside the side tank......on the passenger side of the radiator and the tranny cooler in front of the radiator (if equiped) both have ONLY transmission fluid flowing through them.
Inside the radiator......the coolant flows OVER the fins of the tranny cooler.

Per this thread: "Dropping Resistor (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=732240)" - I have checked my dropping resistor and its broken. It wasn't "all the way" broken, but it was cracked all over, pieces off, and was on its way out. This could be the cause for my fan cut off issues though I don't know about the MPG issues.

I've ordered a new radiator cap and new dropping resistor to solve the coolant level problem and the resistor to hopefully solve the near stall problem at low fan cut-off. We'll see.

O2s - I put the old freshly cleaned O2's back in tonight and rebolted everything. I started it up twice and let run for just a couple minutes cause of no low fan speed. I did not receive a CEL so I'm assuming my O2's are ok since my cleaning of them and since they are self heated. I don't want to do a full test to operating temp though until I get my low fan speed operation back. Meanwhile I'll see if Autozone will take back the other O2's which may be a doozy cause the couple of startups I did, DID change the look of the sensor guard/tip. I'll see what a lil cleanup can do. lol - If not then I'll have to try and sell'em here or on Ebay cause I need the cash.

Wiswind - thanks for the suggestions btw.

I know the CCRM is responsible for current and turning stuff on and off, but could the CCRM be indirectly related to bad MPG? Have you known it to be?

Food for thought. I read tonight that O2 replacement on OBDII systems for the sake of preventative maintenance is pretty much a waste of time. On OBDII systems you are either gonna be alerted by the computer that its failed or notice it big time some other way. The worry about O2 replacement for preventative maintenance is mainly for pre-OBDII vehicles.

Now I don't feel so bad putting the old ones back in. I realize they slow down over time, but this may be due to deposit buildup on the sensor element itself which I hopefully eliminated with my cleaning process. If its due to degrading of internal ceramic though thats a different story.

Hello

I would look into the battery ground cable. Check it for internal resistance. It could look fine on the outside but be totally rotten on the inside. The fact that if you remove the alt ground and you don't get any life means that other grounds aren't being effective.

You've practially replaced every thing on that van!

One good check is to put your volt meter on the battery ground and on a good ground on the body. Watch the meter when the fan shuts off. You might see a spike or a drop in voltage???.... I know that the ECU doesn't like drastic voltage changes. I had a vehical that the engine would stumble when the fan turned on just for a bit. Those fans really do draw the juice.

I take it that you didn't experience this poor millage and poor running before the new engine was installed. I also take it that you didn't install the engine. I always say "just because you pay someone to do something doesn't mean it's done right".

On my 98 Windstar, which I had bought with right front body damage, I had to remove much of the wiring in the engine bay on the front of the sheetmetal inferstructor. I missed a ground wire on reassambly (the hole had been welded shut). I had some really wierd things going on. Flashing ABS and Brake light, with a clicking noise under the dash. I still have airbag and SEL issues. They could be because I missed another ground wire.

Regards,

Dan

Hello

I would look into the battery ground cable. Check it for internal resistance. It could look fine on the outside but be totally rotten on the inside. The fact that if you remove the alt ground and you don't get any life means that other grounds aren't being effective.

You've practially replaced every thing on that van!

One good check is to put your volt meter on the battery ground and on a good ground on the body. Watch the meter when the fan shuts off. You might see a spike or a drop in voltage???.... I know that the ECU doesn't like drastic voltage changes. I had a vehical that the engine would stumble when the fan turned on just for a bit. Those fans really do draw the juice.

I take it that you didn't experience this poor millage and poor running before the new engine was installed. I also take it that you didn't install the engine. I always say "just because you pay someone to do something doesn't mean it's done right".

On my 98 Windstar, which I had bought with right front body damage, I had to remove much of the wiring in the engine bay on the front of the sheetmetal inferstructor. I missed a ground wire on reassambly (the hole had been welded shut). I had some really wierd things going on. Flashing ABS and Brake light, with a clicking noise under the dash. I still have airbag and SEL issues. They could be because I missed another ground wire.

Regards,

Dan

Thanks Dan.

Yes, the old engine ran good MPG as far as I was concerned and the shop did install the engine and it was their 2nd install of an engine for my van in a matter of 2-3 weeks due to the 1st one being defective. Great luck I have. I trust my shop though and worked with them very closely to get it all squared away in the end, but I don't count out that they may have left something out cause I gave them a hell of a list of things to do while everything was apart.

Finally someone to confirm that removing the alt cable and the van dying means I could have a bad ground somewhere else!

How would I properly check the negative cable for resistance? Just put the voltmeter probes at both ends of the cable and see what I get?

Putting the voltmeter on the battery terminal negative post (I assume is what you meant by battery ground) and the other end on a good ground on the body won't blow the meter up in my face huh? lol

DAN !!! YOU GENIUS ! LOL
I just went out (remembered how to test) and tested resistance from ground mount to ground mount on the mounts and on the wires themselves in all the spots I could see. I wish I would've known about resistance testing before I put that cable from the alt to the frame cause now this is all coming back to me from when I did a bunch of this testing on my car.

The alt cable itself measures .5 ohm and from the alt body to the frame where its mounted is about .6-.7 but starts off initially at 1.7 till I press firmly. - As far as I'm concerned this cable needs to go. I thought it was still good, but apparently not. I'd rather have it closer to 0 ohm... at most a .3 ohm.

The real problem though seems to be right where you suggested to check at the battery negative cable. The negative THICKEST cable is actually perfect at 0 ohms, but when i measured the other two lil ones connected there the one closest to the driver side fender measures like 1.6 - 1.7 ohms. From remembering what a guy told me when I did this on my car anything over 1 is bad. DUDE !!!! THANKS FOR JARRING MA BRAIN!

At least now I know for sure that something was wrong here with the grounds and that my dropping resistor also is defunct. Perhaps these two things will yield me a FIX !!!!!!!! *$)_!*$)**** PERHAPS PERHAPS ! If it doesn't then at least thats something else out of the way and I can then focus on the O2's again or whatever else. I'm gonna price a new negative cable, but it would be nice if I could just fix it myself.

I hope this thing runs for a very long time for you! I hope the ground problem fixes things for you!

Regards

Dan

Thanks Dan. I hope so too. lol - Its been quite a journey and I think I deserve some good long years of service out of this thing and I won't quit till I get to that status.

I was looking over the ground locations and my theory about the dropping resistor affecting idle may possibly hold water. Its directly off the main power distribution from the battery. The 2nd diagram is the stuff next down the power line.

http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/externallylinked/BatteryPowerDistributionDiagram1.jpg

http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/externallylinked/BatteryPowerDistributionDiagram2.jpg

I'm pretty pissed. My test results are skewed and I either did a lot of work for nothing or I still have an electrical problem.

I thought that it didn't matter which probe you used "WHERE" (red or black) when testing resistance??? When I test one way I get 0 ohms and the other way I now get 1.1 ohms. This is reduced from 1.7 and thats good n all, but still I was testing with the probes situated such that I got 0 ohms and was like HORRAAAY... and now I'm all pissed cause when I swap the probes I get the 1.1 still. I completely disassembled the negative crimped cable end with the 3 cables and redid it with a new battery terminal and thats how I got down to 1.1.

Only some of my testing in the last 5 minutes I did swapping probes so I don't know really what test results are accurate.

EDIT: Can you have a bad ground in the battery itself? I ask because it seemed like as soon as I connected the battery the resistance showed up at 1.1 and the cables themselves were 0 ohms when not connected. Though again I'm not sure about this "flip flop" the probes bit.

DUB-EDIT: Should I not be testing resistance with the battery connected? I was testing resistance with the positive cable still attached and the negative one detached then in the end I tested with both pos/neg cables attached.

TRI-EDIT: I was able to find my multimeter's user's manual online and it says to only test resistance with no power connected. Does that mean not only should I have removed the neg cable, but the pos cable too? When I did the tests with the battery connected I didn't do it for very long and nothing seemed to break or pop.

You should check resistance with no power in the circuit.
Removing the negative battery cable should be fine.....

One thing that you should do.
Measure the resistance of your meter LEADS......
It is normal to see some very small amound of resistance......but it can be more if the leads are going bad.....or even with the connection between the leads and meter in the plug.
When you think you are getting funky readings......do a quick touch of the ends of the leads together for a sanity check.
I use a DMM all the time in my "day job".

Bad.....or intermittent grounds will cause all kinds of problems.
Some of those grounds.....particularly the negative battery cable carry a LOT of current......
A cable that carries a LOT of current can check out perfect....and fail under load.
For what they cost.......replace.

Batteries have a variety of ways to fail......so, yes....a connection issue there is possible......so that would be a place to look after verifying the ground......and while you are at it.......why not check the power connections?

With the engine changes.......and the age of the cables......worth a good check....as you are doing.
A cable that checks good....but has visible broken wire strands....etc.....should be repaired or replaced.

I cannot see why you would not be able to get at least 20-23mpg on the freeway.
This is going the speed limit.....with the cruise control.
As fuel becomes more expensive.....I have been trying to be more efficient with my '96.
Your '95 does not have the IMRC......which is a nice power boost....but is a MAJOR drain on fuel economy.
Performance and economy are opposite ends of the spectrum.
However......taking it easy will get you the MPG......once you get things resolved.

As I have mentioned.....and you mention above.....just replacing Oxygen sensors because they are old is not necessary.
They do slow down with age.
If they get too slow.....the OBDII system will light the CEL and have a code telling you that they are switching too slow.
I DID change my upstream oxygen sensors with Motorcraft ones......while they work just great.......I got no difference in performance or economy.
That was at about 160K+ miles....and they had slight green stains from the coolant leak at the lower intake manifold gaskets.

I'm also continuing to hang on to my windstar....as I only have to drive 10 minutes each way to work......fuel economy is not as critical....and I have use for the utility of the minivan.
It would cost me more to have a 2nd vehicle just for the fuel economy aspects.
Not having a car payment enables me to pay ahead on my mortgage....and pay cash for upgrades to the house.
Maybe even pay cash for my next vehicle.

I am hoping that you get the smooth running and economy aspects in line soon.

Lots of sanity checks. :runaround::banghead::2cents::2cents::2cents::2cen ts::2cents::2cents::2cents::2cents::2cents::2cents ::2cents::2cents:

I have checked the resistance on the DMM recently, but for sanity I will do it again. Come to think of it now I do believe my "funky" readings may have only been when the negative cable was connected. At least now I know though "which" test mode is APPROPRIATE so that all future readings as long as the neg cable is removed will be cool.

I took apart and repaired, recrimped, and reterminaled the positive cable a long time ago. I resistance checked it too today and it seemed fine (this was for sure with the neg cable off).

I may go out in the drive way tonight and try these tests again so I can sleep better. lol

FYI on the Ypipe situation - Anyday now Magnaflow is going to send me shipping info so I can get the Ypipe thing squared away. I'd usually move on to another brand at this point, but I'll be returning the pipe to the seller for my money back and getting a free one from Magnaflow (their guinea pig) in return + my old pipe back as well. Hard to pass that up even though its gonna be a few weeks wait and after all I really did want Magnaflow brand cats. In any case the van will sit with tape over the exhaust manifolds till I get the new Ypipe back. Might be a good time to go buy a cover for the van cause its gonna go in the backyard till I get the new pipe.

Thanks Wiswind.

As if things weren't dragged out enough the f___ing ford direct online place sent me 2 completely different parts than I ordered. The only similarity is the word "CAP" as they sent me a power steering reservoir and cap for it. I believe they sent me someone elses order. Now of course I have to go through the whole damn process of shipping it back and forth.

Reshipping: Parts are supposedly on the way.

Ok. New dropping resistor and new radiator cap installed.

Problem with almost stalling now seems worse.

New Problem: There's a little capped off spout opposite of the radiator overflow reservoir spout. It is held in place with a small hose clamp and some sort of rubber hose cap. Once it was up to operating temp radiator fluid started coming out of this spot at a pretty fast drip-rate.

Does this possibly mean that the old cap wasn't doing its job? and if so could this result in bad mpg?

Should I look at replacing the cooling fans themselves? or should I hook up OBDII monitoring and see if the computer can tell me something?

I'd have to buy the attachment for use with my computer cause I can't afford an OBDII tool at the moment.

Also Note: The old o2 sensors are reinstalled after my cleaning procedure. There is no CEL light though so I won't believe they are causing this almost stall condition until I can get a logger on the computer.

Tests to try remaining on the van

1. LeSabre97mint - Voltage spike test - One good check is to put your volt meter on the battery ground and on a good ground on the body.
Watch the meter when the fan shuts off. You might see a spike or a drop in voltage???.

2. Wiswind - I don't know if a new CCRM would help or not.
Only way to know is to change it.......more money....but then it is old.
Mine needed replacing 2 times......the 2nd time was because the A/C relay was not holding the A/C compressor on.....following the A/C cycling on and off a lot when the A/C charge went down......due to a leak in the evaporator coil.
So....the CCRM might be worth a try.


Things left to try replacing before drawing a complete blank:
ccrm
alternator
bad grounds or wire shorts somewhere that I haven't found?


What would be the symptoms of a voltage regulator going bad?

My A/C had never been serviced till this big event in October (157k miles). I did notice prior to the engine replacement that the a/c switched on and off a lot and I notice that now as well. It didn't have a leak before and always put out very good cold, but I know it does have a leak now since the engine install.

I'm going to try the voltage test LeSabre97mint recommends, but while I'm sure I'll observe something I wonder what that will tell me if anything? If I see a spike is that an alternator going bad? or a short? bad ground? If I see it dropping whats that mean? lol

Wait a second. Maybe it is the regulator in the alternator.

1. PCM had to be replaced

2. MAS Replaced 1 day after the PCM had to be replaced because one of its wires at the sensor element itself had popped/severed itself off.

3. IAC had to be replaced just a few months before 1 and 2

4. Dropping resistor had to be replaced recently after engine overheat in October

Now I realize these are wear items and others have replaced them too, but they are all electrical.

The MAS element wire popping off normal?
PCM needing replacement normal?
IAC replacement normal?
Dropping resistor replacement normal?

Maybe I'm grasping at straws here, but I wonder how many others have replaced all of these items for needing to do so?

Wait a second. Maybe it is the regulator in the alternator.

1. PCM had to be replaced

2. MAS Replaced 1 day after the PCM had to be replaced because one of its wires at the sensor element itself had popped/severed itself off.

3. IAC had to be replaced just a few months before 1 and 2

4. Dropping resistor had to be replaced recently after engine overheat in October

Now I realize these are wear items and others have replaced them too, but they are all electrical.

The MAS element wire popping off normal?
PCM needing replacement normal?
IAC replacement normal?
Dropping resistor replacement normal?

Maybe I'm grasping at straws here, but I wonder how many others have replaced all of these items for needing to do so?
i've had a similar problem with my 95, lurches at times, it seems to only do it when the van is not good and warm and the a/c compressor kicks on. i just got to where i didn't cut the a/c on until i was on the road. as far as mpg goes, i don't know, i can't afford to fill mine up so i can test it. i know there's a sensor somewhere that idles the engine up when the compressor cuts on, i just don't know where it is.

Come to think of it guys (n gals if there are any here) this behavior was present on my previous engine, but it was just not as prevalent or bad. The description here (http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/faq/EnginePerformanceSymptoms.html#PoorPerformanceRich MixtureSmellFaultyFPR) towards the end of that post:

"After taking a look under the hood, I noticed that when the engine can be seen shaking a great deal more than it should, literally jerking itself back and forth. It often sounds like the engine is just going to cut out, only to rev up again. (it repeats this process indefinitely"

and the description in the next post after it:

"Engine Hesitation: Bad Fuel Pressure Regulator. [Symptoms:] occasional stalling engine at idle; occasional stumble at cruising speed, resulting in 1-2 seconds of deceleration like I'd turned the key off."

That is EXACTLY what my van is doing except that I think because everything else is in such good shape now it won't stall.

The fix for BOTH of those posts was the fuel pressure regulator (FPR).

If it is the FPR perhaps its not completely bad, but going bad because when the cooling fan cuts off fuel pressure is barely feather adjusted and maybe it can't take this small adjustment anymore.

"MAS wire popping off?".....that is NOT normal.
Replace PCM......also NOT normal to be needed
CCRM?.....if not already replaced......I would replace it.....It has been updated with a improved fuel pump relay since our old vehicles were built.
A/C.....Best to have a qualified person check it out.
Fuel pressure regulator.....not a normal failure item.......
Volage regulator....part of the Alternator assembly.....
Grounds and power connections......if not good connection....all kinds of problems can result.

I am so unfamiliar with models other than my '99, I don't have much to offer.

One tip about finding "ground" problems: Sometimes check with voltmeter (not ohmmeter) if possible. This has opportunities especially if the ground conductor carries a sizable current. Of course, you hope always to see 0.000 volts at a ground connector. I once found that anti-sieze material on starter mounting bolt threads, where a ground was located, was causing my whole charging system to be "off" ...leading to dead batteries. There was a 1/2+ volt rise on this bolt when the starter was engaged. An old Escort. (Be careful with this technique.)

Also, I have read nothing about an "engine temp sensor" in this string ... does the '95 even have one?

Have you checked the battery voltage on the vehicle? If not then I'd suggest recording the following three voltages. Even if it turns out that the electrical system is all good, it's always worth keeping a record of these voltages so that you know what's normal for your particular vehicle in the event that you suspect electrical problems at a later date.

=============================================

Voltage after sitting parked overnight, but before starting engine - should be around 12.6V (indicates that there is no excessive current drain with the ignition in the Off position, and that the battery is capable of holding at least some level of charge).

Voltage with engine idling - should be towards the high end of thirteen-point-something volts - maybe as high as 14V (indicates that the alternator is producing output current, and that that current is reaching the battery. Also indicates that the rectifier is functioning, converting AC to DC).

Voltage when revving engine slightly - should climb to around 14.4V and then hold steady at that voltage regardless of further increase in engine speed. (Indicates that the voltage regulator is functioning, and clamping the upper voltage threshold at the correct level).

=============================================

There's no reason to suspect parasitic drain in your particular case but that first reading (after sitting overnight but prior to cranking engine) is worth recording because that voltage will start to fall somewhat as the battery ages and its internal resistance increases as a result of sulphation of the plates, so it can be an early indicator.

Just a few words on what your voltage regulator actually does. First thing to understand is that the alternator can't produce any output unless it has an input in the form of current flowing through the field coil. The voltage regulator controls that current through the field coil to maintain a stable output voltage (at the B+ terminal, which feeds current to the battery). The regulator is constantly busy performing this task, so as various electrical loads are switched on (headlamps, blower motor, etc.) it will increase the field coil current to maintain a stable battery voltage, and as those loads are switched off, it will reduce the field coil current, again to maintain that same stable voltage.

The voltage which it aims for is around 14.2 to 14.4V - this differs slightly depending on the particular make and model but it's always there or thereabouts.

Not all alternators will supply full voltage at idling speed, so idling voltage might be as low as 13.5V on some vehicles, or above 14V on others, but with the engine revved somewhat above idle, the voltage should settle at around 14.4V and then remain steady at that voltage regardless of further increase in engine speed.

It's also worth noting that not all voltage regulators are created equal - some will be designed up to a specification, whilst others will be designed down to a price. Therefore not all regulators will display the tight control over output voltage which I was referring to, above. Some manufacturers will supply a specific set of test procedures for determining if the regulator is healthy - something along the lines of - switching different loads on and off - headlights etc., and monitoring voltage to see if it remains within stated specifications.

I just had a look at one online manual for your Windstar and the alternator/regulator testing procedure consisted of simply checking that battery voltage was within the range of 14.1 to 14.7v with the engine at normal operating temperature, so that really isn't much help.

I'd make a note of those three voltages though - they may not shed any light on your present problems but you'll have them available as a reference for the future.

The 1995 windstar has a engine temperature sensor.....
The 1995 was also fully OBDII complient......makes sense in the design stage as they knew that it would have to be with the 1996 model.

Thanks so much everybody. I have been dealing with this crap since October and it is very hard to contain myself. This just has to end very soon. With as much work as I'm putting in its like I should have this thing beating out sports cars or something.

Fuel Pressure Regulator
I read you aren't supposed to smell or see fuel when you take the vac hose off it. I removed the vac hose and believe the engine adjusted as it was supposed to, but I did smell a "hint" and I mean a HINT just once of fuel. I guess I wasn't supposed to smell "ANY AT ALL" (anyone advise?) which could mean of course the FPR needs to be replaced.

Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (ECT)
It is the original. I looked at the connections for it today and cleaned it with electronic parts cleaner. Made sure was dry before replugging it in. I think this is working properly, though I have not tested it specifically. Since I replaced the cooling fan dropping resistor I noticed the fans kicking on where/when they used to and the temp gauge is back where it used to be as well with the old engine between the "A" and the "M".
Alt, Battery & Grounds Resistance
I have had the alt checked myself and at my shop a few times and it tests good as does the battery.

I retested resistance today with the neg cable off. Every ground I know of went right to 0.00ohm. Some started at a higher number, but as I held it and pressed harder it went to 0.00.

The only grounds I know of are at the alternator, one near the radiator cap on the frame, one opposite that one on the frame by battery, of course the negative cable with 3 grounds out of it. All of these test good.

Voltage
I wanted to retest voltage for spiking when fully warmed, but I still do not have the exhaust pipe setup finished and that heat coming out directly under the middle of the van disintegrates the heat shield paper under there. I need to get the exhaust finished which has turned out to be a major hassle holding me up on trivial tests that require the engine to be fully warmed. I'm taking the ypipe I bought tomorrow to get the rear upstream o2 port moved slightly and then this exhaust saga should be over with except for needing to cut the muffler hanger in the rear due to it interfering with the tow package. After those 2 things are done the system will finally be "BOLT-ON".

12Ounce - Odd that someone would've put antiseize at the starter bolt. I replaced my starter when I first got the van and I didn't put any on nor is there any at the alternator. Good call though.

Selectron - I'll put your voltage tests on my hit list for after I get the exhaust stuff done tomorrow. I appreciate these techniques as I didn't know how to test for alt regulator or rectifier proper operation. I guess those tests equate to what the stupid machine at Autozone (which never works right) does when it does work right.

wiswind - I've been putting off the CCRM for a while now cause of $. Though if my testing in the next few days does nothing for my situation I'm probably gonna order it. Thanks for your info as always on the items I've replaced being fairly normal or not for needing replacement.

Searcherr, I don't think I can add much more than what others have brought up. No battery/alt light come one any? If it's the original alt, you could have a "used up" voltage regulator, which includes the brushes. It is replaceable as a unit or just the brushes, as the alt is quite expensive. But at this point a bench test of it would be worthwhile just to eliminate it. Unfortunately, I have had the alt light flicker on two of my vehicles in identical ways, with the Windstar issue clearing up on its own after having a battery go dead, so I'm guessing maybe the brushes were complaining and then straightened out. The rest of the voltage reg. is electronic, so I wouldn't expect that to fix itself. There wasn't time or an incidence of strange electrical behavior, but what you've described definitely needs investigation. My other vehicle my guess could have been fixed with a new voltage regulator, but I didn't not knowing better to try. Ouch, could have saved over $100.

Selectron would probably know better than I, but I believe that there should not be any significant voltage spikes caused by turning things off as that is part of the purpose of the voltage regulator. I'd guess anything more than a 1/2 volt spike would not be good or normal.

I can't quote or locate it, but I have read on the forum (if not windstar, then taurus) about peculiar performance behavior caused by the ECT as the PCM uses the engine temp to help determine air fuel/trim and transmission operation (or the trans has its own temp sensor that can do weird stuff, don't remember). FYI, the ECT has been in use prior to the 95 windstar in EEC-IV type systems (and possibly others) like the Taurus as they too have a pcm that utilizes that info. I'd also recommend searching discussions on the fuel regulator, again with Windstar and Taurus, as they are very similarly configured.

After I saved this, I read your latest post, so I will add that the bench test verses the underhood test the auto stores do are not equal, with the bench test being much better. I believe they load test it, measure it's output, and check the voltage on the field, and whatever other outputs there are, which they can't do in the car. For example, they weren't able to tell anything was wrong with my alt in the car, but out of it, they could tell the switching diodes were breaking down, the rectifier was starting to go bad. The regulator was still working properly ttbomk. I think one of the diodes may have actually been shorting, causing a drain on the battery.

If you DO smell gasoline at the fuel pressure regulator....then it needs to be replaced.
However.....it can be tough to tell if you really smelled fuel at that point or not.
It WOULD explain a lot if it is leaking....but this would be the first time that I have seen it mentioned (not that it cannot or does not happen).

Instead of "anti-sieze", perhaps better wording would be "thread-loc". It was the original manufacturer's installation. You know, the bolts that come with the blue stuff on the threads.

If the near-stalling coincides precisely with the radiator cooling fans switching off, then I think you may have a problem with back-emf. Back-emf (electromotive force) is the phenomenon commonly known as a voltage spike, which occurs when the current to an inductive load is switched off. Even with a supply voltage of only 12V, this spike can easily reach hundreds, even thousands, of volts.

The spike is negative-going, meaning that it will have the opposite polarity to the supply voltage, and its duration will be very brief - typically just a few milliseconds. Because of its short duration you wouldn't see it on a multimeter, aside from maybe a momentary fluctuation in the meter reading, but it's observable on an oscilloscope, and with a digital storage 'scope it's possible to capture the waveform and analyse it at one's leisure.

There is a path from the positive terminals of the fans, through fuse 'W' (10A, engine compartment fuse box) and into the PCM on pin 4 (Fan Monitor Input), so a spike could be reaching the PCM via that route.

There's also a path from the coils of three relays within the CCRM - the EDF, HEDF1 and HEDF2 relays - into the PCM on pin 17 (High Fan Control), so a spike could be reaching the PCM via that route also.

The back-emf protection for the three (inductive) relay coils within the CCRM is clear to see - they're protected by a single reverse-biased diode, so if that has failed then for sure a spike would reach the PCM.

The back-emf protection within the fans isn't shown. They will likely be brushless DC motors, having a series of (inductive) coils fed via a solid-state current-switching circuit. Each coil will be protected locally by a reverse-biased diode, but in the event of a failure of one of those diodes, I don't know what the chances are of the resulting spike escaping from the motor. The circuitry will be relatively complex - solid-state current switching, current amplifiers etc., and I don't know if a spike could get past them without destroying them in the process.

Faced with this situation, I'd probably just open up the CCRM and check out the diode. It won't have failed short-circuit (if it had, it would interfere with relay operation) but it could have failed open-circuit or the soldering could be dry-jointed (cold joint). PCB track damage would be a less likely possibility too.

If the CCRM had awkward access or looked like it would be a problem to open, then I'd temporarily fit a reverse-biased diode externally.

If the vehicle still nearly stalled when the cooling fans switched off, then I'd remove that temporary diode from the CCRM and temporarily fit a reverse-biased diode across the fan motors - they're wired in parallel, so a single diode would protect against back-emf from either, or from both.

It's possible that you don't have a problem with spikes at fan switch-off, but if the voltage feed into the fans, and the ground path leading from the fans are both good, then that's what I would be looking at next.

I won't go into detail on hooking up the diodes because this post is long enough already, but if you want to proceed with that at any time then let me know and I'll explain more fully. The diodes required would be cheap, and readily-available types.

If you DO smell gasoline at the fuel pressure regulator....then it needs to be replaced.
However.....it can be tough to tell if you really smelled fuel at that point or not.
It WOULD explain a lot if it is leaking....but this would be the first time that I have seen it mentioned (not that it cannot or does not happen).

Well what I did was pull the vac line from the intake manifold and put it directly under my nose while the engine was running while I was plugging the intake manifold with my finger. I smelled it only once and it was definitely gasoline smell, but it was faint and only there for maybe 1-2 seconds. Also, engine wasn't at full temp yet either.

I was just thinking about it though - there's a diagram of the fpr in the cd-rom I have and its very clear that fuel and vac are supposed to be separate so I shouldn't have even smelled a hint of fuel however I really don't see how thats possible that the seal would be 100%. It seems like as the diaphragm slides up and down you would smell "some" small margin of fuel here, but so far no one else has said that and I'm probably looking too far into this. Its probably just bad and may have gone bad when the engine overheated above the "H" mark in October. So it would be rare in NORMAL situations for it to go bad, but in an abnormal situation where the engine got that hot it may have melted the rubber internals (assuming the diaphragm is rubber).

Searcherr, I don't think I can add much more than what others have brought up. No battery/alt light come one any? <<..rest truncated..>>

NO battery or alt light at all.

I still plan (once exhaust setup is back together; now hopefully Monday) to do the voltage tests Selectron recommends. Thanks for the thoughts about the alternator. I honestly don't know how the brushes could still be in good condition after 158k miles. Do these brushes actually rub on something that turns? I seem to recall the words "rotor" or "stator"????

Instead of "anti-sieze", perhaps better wording would be "thread-loc". It was the original manufacturer's installation. You know, the bolts that come with the blue stuff on the threads.

That makes more sense.... still like you observed it reduces current flow.

What have you done relating to the engine temp sensor?

If the near-stalling coincides precisely with the radiator cooling fans switching off, then I think you may have a problem with back-emf. Back-emf (electromotive force) is the phenomenon commonly known as a voltage spike, which occurs when the current to an inductive load is switched off. Even with a supply voltage of only 12V, this spike can easily reach hundreds, even thousands, of volts. ......

Selectron - WOW. You make me feel good about how much I write. :) I really appreciate this in depth analysis because YES it is PRECISELY when the low-speed cooling fan(s) turn(s) OFF EVERY SINGLE TIME. It does not do this at all when cold or warming up to operating temp - ONLY AT OPERATING temp after low speed fan(s) turn(s) OFF.

I like your diode idea, but I'm just not gonna drive the vehicle till I've figured this out. I may be interested in doing the diode later though if I run into delay getting the parts I need.

Lets assume for the moment the problem IS a back-emf/voltage spike caused from the fans turning off. If I just replaced the CCRM and fuse W (10A) would that likely take care of the problem and in addition that the back-emf could be coming from the fan motor(s) itself/themselves which may mean replacing the motor assembly?

I think once I am able to test for the voltage spike I'll use alligator clamps and keep my eyes peeled on the multimeter for the voltage.

Is a 10A fuse either BAD or GOOD or can it be "going bad"?

However, would this back-emf explain 9 - 11 MPG? It doesn't seem like it would huh? This is what makes me still concerned about the FPR and of course again the CCRM since the fuel pump relay is in there in addition to the fan relay.

If I look at the old CCRM what am I really looking for to know its relays went bad? Whats a PCB? Whats dry jointing or cold joint? What do these things look like in non-electrical terms? hehe

Lastly, I know this is going to sound "SUPER-NERD", but I've always wanted an oscilloscope. lol - There've been several situations on my car where I could've used it for testing against spec waveform data in the manual.

What have you done relating to the engine temp sensor?

If thats the same as the engine coolant temperature sensor I've cleaned its connectors and verified resistance at its ground wire. I've done nothing else with it yet.

I will just throw this out there. Is there a way for you to have your PCM checked besides $100 at the dealer? I accidentally cooked the PCM on my Taurus, 3.8L (same as Winnie) and it ran like crap, nearly stalling, running rich enough to spit black out the exhaust. The car will also run this way when putting in a new PCM while it's relearning how to run the engine, as I had done. Eventually it will smooth out. Searcherr and others, maybe yours is not "learning" and retaining what it experiences so it continues to use the same original crappy parameters. The PCM on mine took 5 to 10 minutes maybe to show improvement, high idle helped a lot, driving it for 15 minutes did a lot to smooth it out. I'd expect the same for your's to relearn. Another thought regarding this PCM business that I learned was the compatability of the PCM and engine is supposedly very critical when I was trying to find a used replacement for mine. Could your engine and PCM (EEC, ECU, ECM, ECA, engine computer, etc.) not be properly matched? At this point, confirming compatability wouldn't be hard to check and maybe worthwhile. Unfortunately, you may need to get the exact PCM number off the Ford part decale which was only visible with it pulled out for mine, but maybe going by VIN would avoid that issue. A bad pcm may explain the things that aren't working out like they should. Could your first reman engine screwed up your pcm if not the right match? Can the shop that did your swap read/check your pcm as part of the same job?

The shop replaced the PCM prior to the engine overheat/failure in October with a brand new Ford OEM. The very next day after the PCM was replaced the MAS blew its element wire on my way out of there.

I trust that they put in the right PCM and I was not having bad MPG with the old engine using the new PCM prior to its failure. Thinking back this issue always existed prior to new engine install. It was just much much less noticeable and I always attributed it to "old engine" and it didn't try to stall the vehicle like it does now and I never noticed back then that it was only when the low speed fans turned OFF. Back then I didn't know my dropping resistor was corroding and falling apart either and lots of other old components that had "worn together" were in play in a system that aged with a balance over time.

Now I have a hodge podge mix of old and new components with very few old ones left. My guess is the new stuff is much more sensitive to whatever was causing this issue when it was all old stuff. After replacing the dropping resistor and recrimping the grounds at the battery it makes sense to me now that this problem got worse cause the electrical is now better grounded for transmitting current during the theorized voltage spike after the fans turn off.

If I'm not careful I'll end up blowing my new PCM unless this really is related to the fuel system and not electrical...... could be both and 2 separate (though contributing to the symptoms) problems.

FYI - Cold testing of ECT and IAT resistance:

ECT: 25.35
IAT: 24.96-25.26

Both tests done at 87 to 86 F

I found some spec data and that appears to be accurate for both.

I can't do a hot test till I can run the van for an extended period, but I doubt I will find either sensor is bad.

Voltage tests with zero load:

1. Cold battery after sitting for 24 hours - 12.37v - It actually was 24 hours with the cables connected before the next 2 days it was sitting with the neg cable pulled off.

2. Idle voltage - 14.68v

3. 2000 rpms rev voltage - 14.70v

4. Voltage spike test - Can't do yet. Taking exhaust pipe in tomorrow.

Is that too high or just right for an alternator?

Those sound like ideal voltages from your charging system. The alternator brushes do actually contact and ride on the commutator part of the armature, which is what is spun past the stationary field coils of the alternator. So, yes the brushes wear down, and if you have an externally mounted voltage regulator, you can replace the brushes, if they are short, as an entire assembly with the volt reg, or just the brushes alone. Either way, you will most likely need to pull the alt to do that, and I would go ahead and have it bench tested so your rectifier, diodes, reg and output can be checked and help you to decide what level orf repair to do.

What I meant on the PCM issue is to be sure that the new engine is a match to your old PCM.

I may have to leave your theory to Selectron on the idea of better conductivity and grounding with voltage spikes resulting in greater sensitivity and worse results. I would be more in favor of a better outcome than worse with the said improvements, at the very least more accurate sensor data going to and from the PCM. Certainly poor conductivity to and from the pcm will create biased data and feedback. Tracing and understanding voltage spikes and eliminating them through design is out of my league and I would have to defer to Selectron on that. Voltage spiking from the fans turning off makes me wonder about the control relay involved drawing excess current due to bad contacts or weak pull in coil in the ccrm.

I was going to suggest doing a vacuum hold test on your fuel pump regulator. No leak down, no internal fuel leak.

I was thinking (kinda been obsessing over this crap) about it again and there are many symptoms that to me say the CCRM is toast:

1. My A/C clutch did switch on and off quite often prior to breaking open the system (freon recharge at new engine install etc..) and still does so fairly fast in my opinion now. CCRM controls this too - (As Wiswind has pointed out several times - lol).

2. The cooling fan turning OFF causes almost stall condition every single time and this is directly controlled by and routed through the CCRM (As Wiswind has pointed out several times - double lol) while all known grounds check out.

3. Fuel pump is directly controlled by the CCRM from the PCM (As Wiswind has pointed out several times - triple lol). To me, this could have a direct impact on fuel economy.

4. Maybe i'm wrong on this one, but since I have improved the ground points and system continuity it makes sense to me that this problem seems worse now because the source of the prob is getting through the electricals easier.

I have been studying the electrical diagrams and ground locations all AM hours of the night from the cd-rom I have as well as looking up fpr info and fuel test gauges to buy. I really have tested all "related" grounds, but 1 which is located underneath the battery. There really aren't as many grounds on the vehicle as I thought there may be, but there are many things routing into the grounds that are there and thankfully this seems to have been done in an organized manner.

So without further adue I'm going to take apart the battery area today, test that ground under there and pull the CCRM and have a look at it. I really don't know what I'm gonna see, but I was wondering if I could just clean the CCRM with electronic parts cleaner??? ... and reinstall it after drying and see what it does???

I know the new one is better, but its also $94. I wonder if I could just get one from a junk yard from a 2003 Windstar. It should be the newer one and maybe cheaper and still good to go cause its the revised version.

Thanks again for everyone helping and keeping up. Hoping to hear back from Selectron on my questions to him soon.

2003 does NOT have a CCRM.....they moved the relays into the power distribution box.
You need to use the CCRM that is listed for your vehicle and year.
As far as "Junk yard", you might try ebay.....but....again make SURE that it is the correct one for your year, vehicle, and engine.

I do not know that you can clean the CCRM......relays inside a metal box.
I would not take the box apart.....as it would likely cause more damage than help.

When you said something about a wire at the MAF "blew off".....do you mean that it was burned/charred?.....if so....this could have damaged the MAF and / or the PCM.......

Lets assume for the moment the problem IS a back-emf/voltage spike caused from the fans turning off. If I just replaced the CCRM and fuse W (10A) would that likely take care of the problem and in addition that the back-emf could be coming from the fan motor(s) itself/themselves which may mean replacing the motor assembly?

Yep, that's about right but the problem is that if you do have a spike at switch-off then there are two possible and quite separate sources and you wouldn't know which one was causing it, so you wouldn't know which one to replace. In the absence of a 'scope the only relatively easy way to determine the source would be by temporarily adding spike suppression to each in turn, in the form of a reverse-biased diode, and finding it by a process of elimination. That's not a difficult task, but if you're unaccustomed to working at component level then I probably wouldn't recommend it because there's the possibility of hooking things up incorrectly, and compounding your existing problems.

Similarly with the CCRM - I wouldn't recommend even attempting to open it if you're not experienced at that level because the chances of it going smoothly first time would be pretty slim.

Fuse W won't be implicated in any of this, and you can assume that it's healthy, because it feeds 12V back into pin 4 of the PCM (Fan Monitor Input) to inform the PCM that the fans have been successfully powered up, and if that signal wasn't getting through then I reckon it would be giving you an error code, so you can pretty much forget about that particular fuse. I only mentioned it because if a spike is coming off of the fans at switch-off then it would travel to the PCM via that fuse, but aside from that it's of little significance.

As for looking for a spike with a multimeter, as I said, I doubt that you'd see much except maybe a momentary fluctuation in the meter reading, and that's because it's such a brief event - just a few milliseconds and then it's gone. If your meter has a peak-hold or max-hold feature then it would be worth switching that on in the hope that it might just record it. Also, I'd set the meter to its highest DC voltage range, which is probably 1,000V, because if a spike exists then it would exceed the limits of the lower voltage ranges.

Your battery voltages look ok. The voltage after sitting overnight is low, so the battery is obviously a little discharged but that's not a cause for concern, because it's to be expected if the vehicle isn't being driven daily. The voltage at idle and above idle are both within spec for your vehicle (14.1 to 14.7V) so that's fine too. It's a long way away from being a comprehensive test, but I just wanted to rule out the possibility that the electrical system was running way above or below its normal voltage range.

That's an interesting point about compatibility between the PCM and the engine, and it would be worth checking out, but I notice you said that the near-stalling issue already existed with the original engine so that might suggest that that particular problem is not a PCM compatibility issue.

Regarding the CCRM - if you're not accustomed to working at component level then it's safer to treat it as a sealed unit and confine any testing to the exterior connections. You could check for voltage drop across the various relays' switched contacts via the unit's exterior connections, but that still wouldn't necessarily be a conclusive indication that the unit is good.

You've mentioned the A/C a couple of times but it isn't clear whether you've done this test:

With the engine running but while it's still cold, if you switch on the A/C then that will cause the cooling fans to come on at low speed. If you allow it to run for a couple of minutes to let things settle down and then switch the A/C off, does the engine still nearly stall?

That would seem to be an easy way to eliminate the ECT sensor and the associated portion of the PCM circuit which triggers the fans to switch on and off.

If it still stalls then that would suggest that the ECT sensor circuit is not the cause, but if it did not stall then that would suggest that the ECT circuit requires further investigation, and it would also tell you that you don't have a problem with spikes at fan switch-off.

2003 does NOT have a CCRM.....they moved the relays into the power distribution box.
You need to use the CCRM that is listed for your vehicle and year.
As far as "Junk yard", you might try ebay.....but....again make SURE that it is the correct one for your year, vehicle, and engine.

I do not know that you can clean the CCRM......relays inside a metal box.
I would not take the box apart.....as it would likely cause more damage than help.

When you said something about a wire at the MAF "blew off".....do you mean that it was burned/charred?.....if so....this could have damaged the MAF and / or the PCM.......

Thats odd then cause the CCRM is listed like this in the parts web sites:
Electrical - Powertrain control - Ecm relay
Ecm relay, windstar 1995 - 2003

Same part number for all years as it seems at least from Bob Utter Ford and parts.com.

The MAS element wire (looking in the element air flow tube itself) did not burn or char... it was simply POPPED OFF of its solder. It could've been debris I guess, but its hard to say and quite coincidental that this happened the very day AFTER a brand new OEM PCM was put in. I also have heard lots of people say that K&N oil charged filters cause damage to MAS' so it could've been that too, but overall I'm leaning more at this point to something electrical.

I took the exhaust pipe in this afternoon to get fixed/modified since Magnaflow is dragging their ass. Tomorrow I should be able to fire her up for further tests and for the first time see how the new exhaust note sounds.

I'm going outside right now to deal with the CCRM and new grounds I found. The one that is connected to a connector right off the battery from the connector to the battery is 0.0ohm... but when I try to OHm the other end of the connector-to-van-body I get 1.1xxx ohms. I hadn't checked that side of the connector before I don't think so I'll be exploring that too today.

Selectron - I'm very accustomed to doing detailed work in any area and probably especially component level. I've taked apart IAC's before, electrical ohm and voltage tested nearly every sensor in my whole engine bay in my other car. I didn't like spending all that time on it, but I am more than capable. I've also rebuilt various components too.

I just don't like dealing with "compressed parts" if you will. IE: If taking apart the CCRM means there will be a bunch of springs or compressed metal dealy wheelys that'll pop out at me when I open it that I have to be extremely careful to put back together or else it won't switch right then forget it. If they are all in there loosely or even just firmly so then lets go for it.

The 1995 engine/tranny setup in my Windstar is a 1 year setup. All succeeding years were different especially noting the IMRC. I doubt seriously that I would've got the wrong PCM. I won't discard this possibility, but it will go to the bottom of the list.

I'm heading outside to go take this stuff apart and do a few ground tests. I'll have pics later of the CCRM and be ready to look into it with ya Selectron so POST BACK BIZNATCH ! lol :) Thanks.

You've mentioned the A/C a couple of times but it isn't clear whether you've done this test:

With the engine running but while it's still cold, if you switch on the A/C then that will cause the cooling fans to come on at low speed. If you allow it to run for a couple of minutes to let things settle down and then switch the A/C off, does the engine still nearly stall?



I'm 90% sure it does try to stall using that test method. I have used it in the past because I didn't want to wait for warm-up. I haven't done it in about a week or more and would have to try again tomorrow when I get the exhaust pipe back. I just can't remember 100% though. I'm 90% sure it does try to stall though. Too many things to keep track of here.

Selectron - I have the CCRM off and in my room. Can we do anything with it or are all your tests only going to work if we have the van running?

1. The 3rd ground off the battery that goes to a connector: This ground looks like it goes straight through to the CCRM. I tested the CCRM connector harness unplugged for resistance/cont and got the 0.00 (this is a black wire with a white stripe). I can only surmise that the CCRM module must ground itself to the frame through that tiny ass bolt that holds it on or else I don't know where else its grounded to. In any case from the battery to the connector tip for that special black/white stripe wire the continuity is good, however I am not sure what I'm supposed to see on the multimeter if I put the lead to this connector and to the body when connected to the CCRM. I'd assume I'm supposed to see 0.00 as well, but I believe when I did that I got 1.125. However if the CCRM isn't active perhaps the continuity isn't there for a ground to exist? Me confusing myself. Ya'll think the CCRM would benefit from an additional ground added to one of the metal tabs?

****2. This next thing may be the most interesting discovery I've found yet and for once I know immediately it was clearly WRONG and I have no idea how long it was like this. Could've been for the entire life of the van. In the power relay box while tracing that "connector" ground that comes off the battery I thought it might go to the fuse/relay box. While inspecting the fuses/relays I found that the blue 15 AMP fuse which the owner's manual says is for the EEC (Electronic Engine Control) Module WAS NOT PLUGGED IN!!!!!!!! Whoever was in there before me pushed it in....but instead of it going in between its connector slot it went slanted onto the SIDE of the connector. It was still touching the metal slot on the side, but the tips of the fuse were corroded with black gunk about 60% and it was not in there NEARLY as firm as it is when put properly in its slot. I of course cleaned it up a lil bit and put it in properly. SERIOUSLY I WONDER IF THIS HAS BEEN MY ENTIRE PROBLEM??????
EDIT: Just looked in the CD-ROM - EEC = PCM. This may explain why my PCM fried before.

3. F48F-12B577-BA is my original factory CCRM part number. This part number does not come up anywhere. The prefix and ending letters are different and center number is all that resembles with the new number. In any case I know the right part number to order thanks to ya'll: F78Z-12B577-AB

EDIT: 4. I also noticed a DIODE in the fuse box with a symbol on it: Triangle pointing left at center of a vertical line with a horizontal line left of it at center as well. Wonder if this has to do with voltage spike protection?
http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/symbols/diode.gif There... it looked like that but pointing the opposite direction.

Regarding the CCRM grounding - the case is grounded via pin 25, from where a black wire runs to ground point G106. That should be sufficient, but if the mounting tabs have electrical continuity to the case then adding a separate ground wire from one of the tabs to chassis wouldn't do any harm.

That was the ground specifically for the case, but the PCM also has what are shown as 'Power Grounds', presumably coming off the PCB (printed circuit board) and they are from pins 24, 51, 76, 77, 103, and they all connect to ground point G106, so it's important that G106 has a clean, secure connection to the chassis.

The blue 15A fuse - I assume that's in the engine compartment fuse box, in which case it's likely to be fuse R, which feeds pin 55 of the PCM. That's the KAPWR (Keep Alive Power) terminal, which needs a permanent 12V in order to retain system settings in an area of the PCM memory. Even if it looked in bad condition, I think it must have still had good continuity because there are error codes associated with that, so it would have been giving you codes if the 12V was missing or low. It would be great if that does turn out to be the culprit, but for now at least, I doubt it.

The diode you mentioned isn't shown on my diagrams, but if that's in the engine compartment fuse panel then it's likely to be a reverse-polarity protection diode, to protect the more expensive and sensitive electronic modules (PCM, ignition modules, etc.) in the event that the battery is hooked up with the wrong polarity, so I doubt that it will prove to be of any significance.

The CCRM doesn't contain any moving parts - no springs or valves or such - it's just a module containing electronic components - relays, diodes, a few ICs and possibly a few resistors etc., mounted on a printed circuit board, so that's what I meant when I referred to 'component-level' - I was meaning electronic components.

If you intend to open it, then the first thing would be to give it a thorough visual inspection, looking for any signs of overheating such as scorch marks on the PCB or the components themselves. Check also for signs of water ingress and corrosion, and track damage - hairline cracks, burnt tracks, etc. (the tracks are the strips of copper which link the components) and also check the soldering for dry joints. A good joint will be smooth, shiny and silver-coloured, whilst a dry joint will be a dull grey colour and it will often have tiny, visible cracks in the solder surface. A magnifying glass helps a lot in spotting those.

The only thing that I would be interested in testing would be the protection diode for the cooling fan relays. That's in parallel with the coil of the EDF relay, and that relay can be identified by its switched contacts, which receive a 12V feed via pins 6 and 7 (brown/orange) with the output from the switched contacts being on pins 3 and 4 (red/orange). (Edit: I just remembered there's a misprint on my diagram - pin 4 is shown twice with two different functions so that may not actually be pin 4 - you'll still be able to identify the relay from the connections to pins 3, 6 and 7 though). So, having identified the relay, follow the copper PCB tracks from the coil to the diode. Because the diode is in parallel with the coil, an in-circuit test wouldn't be conclusive, so one leg of the diode would ideally need to be removed from circuit in order to test it. The meter would be set to the Diode Test range, and with the red probe connected to anode, black probe to cathode (i.e. diode forward-biased) it should indicate a voltage drop of around 0.6V (600mV). Then with the meter probes reversed (i.e. diode reverse biased) it should indicate an open-circuit. If that's what you get then the diode is healthy. Anything else would indicate a fault condition.

If it's a single or double-sided PCB then it's reasonably straightforward, but with a multi-layered PCB, to avoid the hassle of desoldering, I sometimes just snip a component at the angle of the shoulder, test it, and then solder it back again at the shoulder, with slim aluminium heat shunt tweezers in place between shoulder and body. That's a fairly common practice and safe enough if you're quick about the soldering, and use a heat shunt.

Diode symbol:
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x64/Selectron/Escort/diode-symbol.png

Component marking:
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x64/Selectron/Escort/diode-marking.png

I'm taking the day off to do some long-overdue wood carving which has been on my to-do list since Christmas, but I'll be around if you have any questions.

Where is G106? I searched my CD-ROM and only found up to G104 in the G100's. Also for my CCRM there is no pin 25. It only goes up to 24. Were you talking about on the PCM?

I thought little pieces of metal moved in relays to open and close circuits?

http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/externallylinked/CCRM-ConnectorDescription.jpg

I reread your post 3 times. 1st time I was completely lost. 2nd time I was sorta getting it. 3rd time .... ok I think I understand your electric-man talk. :) I've pulled my ECU/ECM from my car before and had to inspect it so I know what to look for as far as a bad board and your descriptions helped too.

I have a soldering gun that came with some solder. I'm not sure what a "slim aluminium heat shunt tweezers" is, but I guess they'll probably have that at radioshack. I hate hate hate hate going to that place. I guess that tweezers resists solder so that you won't solder the tweezers with the circuit. lol - At least thats what I'd think it is.

If the CCRM looks good and tests good if I take it apart..... can I use RTV to seal it??? or does the CCRM need ventilation?

Oops, yep, the case grounding via pin 25 refers to the PCM, not CCRM. I haven't seen grounding details for the CCRM, but if there's electrical continuity from the mounting tab to the case then it'll be ok to add a separate ground wire. According to the diagram you've posted, the CCRM is grounded via pin 15, so it would be worth tracing that and ensuring that it's clean and secure at whichever ground point it leads to. The location of the ground points aren't shown on my diagram so I don't know where G106 is located.

Relays do indeed contain a spring-loaded moving contact, but PCB-mounted relays would typically be sealed units so that isn't something that one would normally disassemble.

The heatshunt tweezers look like this (http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?menu=1611&Mname=Soldering&criteria=tweezers), but I don't see them listed on the Radio Shack site, and yep, they're made from aluminium so they don't accidentally get soldered into circuit too. With a little ingenuity you could make something similar with a couple of offcuts of aluminium and a rubber band or similar to make them self-clamping, which would serve just fine for occasional use.

Regarding sealing the unit - if you have to break a seal to open it then I'd reseal it, using a silicone-based sealant.

I present to you all.... the insides of the mighty CCRM:

http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/externallylinked/CCRM-Windstar-1995-0001-smaller.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/externallylinked/CCRM-Insides-Windstar-1995-0003-smaller.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/externallylinked/CCRM-Insides-Windstar-1995-0004-smaller.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/externallylinked/CCRM-Insides-Windstar-1995-0006-smaller.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/externallylinked/CCRM-Insides-Windstar-1995-0007-smaller.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/externallylinked/CCRM-Insides-Windstar-1995-0008-smaller.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/externallylinked/CCRM-Insides-Windstar-1995-0009-smaller.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/externallylinked/CCRM-Insides-Windstar-1995-0011-smaller.JPG

Aside from the expected debris, dirt, visiting MOSQUITO who met his match with electricity... I found the CCRM to look much better than I thought it would.

The ONLY thing I saw questionable visibly was on the bottom of the board edge at the diodes where it looks like the whole edge of the board has bubbled. It may be along a trace on the board. I would think this was probably due to the major overheating in October. I don't like the CCRM's proximity to the upper radiator hose. In any case I'm gonna clean it and the connectors up good later today, ensure the ground/cont is good from CCRM to PCM, reinstall it, put the exhaust back together finally, and see what happens after I get the van to operating temp. I want to find out if that 15A fuse was an issue before I go clipping diodes on the CCRM.

Selectron & anyone else - Interested in your opinion(s) of the bubbling or if this is just normal board construction.

The bubbling effect on the tracks isn't uncommon, and it's mostly not a cause for concern. The old Sinclair computer circuit boards always had it, and just about every track inside a GEC TV would always be bubbled, straight out of the factory. If you rub the edge of your fingernail over it though you'll probably find that it's good and solid underneath. That can be confirmed by a few quick continuity checks from one end of a track to the other. If overheating had caused it then the green protective coating would be discoloured and broken, but from what I can see, it looks ok.

One thing which did catch my eye was the ceramic resistor on the edge of the board - that's the big white chunky-looking thing. Ceramic resistors are used when a considerable wattage is to be dissipated, and therefore they run hot, and that frequently leads to them drifting in value over time so it would be worth giving it a quick check. The resistance value is marked on the inner face - the side which is facing the relay - I can see the markings but can't read them.

The markings are interpreted like so:

0.27 ohms would be marked 0R27
2.7 ohms would be marked 2R7
27 ohms would be marked 27R
270 ohms would be marked 270R
2.7 kilohms would be marked 2K7
27 kilohms would be marked 27K
270 kilohms would be marked 270K
2.7 megohms would be marked 2M7

... so you're looking for a marking resembling one of those.

Check the resistance one way and then reverse the leads and check again. Because it's in-circuit, it's unlikely you will read the exact value because there may be components in parallel with it, but for an in-circuit check, the value should be the marked value or less - never higher. If the measured value is higher then that indicates that it's faulty.

I'm surprised at how dusty the unit is, so I hope the relays were well-sealed at the manufacturing stage.

Ford kept the fan relays mounted separately from all the other relays in '99, when electrical things were changed around a bit. All relays became plug-in design that year. Two different sizes of relays for fan control were required. The larger one (gray in the photo below) was for "high speed". (I have lost one "high speed" relay in my 230 kmiles.) You can see an alligator clip and conductor lead that I've added. The lead is soldered to the high speed relay coil grounding conductor. During severe summer driving or when towing, the alligator clip is moved to a grounded bolt. This keeps the fan in high speed anytime the ignition key is "on".... hopefully helping the tranny and ac.
.
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/3306/pict0087hk0.th.jpg (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0087hk0.jpg)
.
Click on thumbnail to enlarge.

It was very hard to see, but here is what is written on it:

CPR 5 - 9 DALE 5w
62 Ω 5% C9423

Connections are at sector R6 on the board.

Resistance is futile. :) Sorry. lol

Resistance is: 64.0 Ω on the nose and flipping the leads (testing at both metal prongs coming out of the ceramic) shows exactly the same thing.

Do dis mean we have brokey CCRM?

Omega symbol & Ohm's law: Ω (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%A9) & Ohm's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm_%28unit%29)

Ford kept the fan relays mounted separately from all the other relays in '99, when electrical things were changed around a bit. All relays became plug-in design that year. Two different sizes of relays for fan control were required. The larger one (gray in the photo below) was for "high speed". (I have lost one "high speed" relay in my 230 kmiles.) You can see an alligator clip and conductor lead that I've added. The lead is soldered to the high speed relay coil grounding conductor. During severe summer driving or when towing, the alligator clip is moved to a grounded bolt. This keeps the fan in high speed anytime the ignition key is "on".... hopefully helping the tranny and ac.
.
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/3306/pict0087hk0.th.jpg (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0087hk0.jpg)
.
Click on thumbnail to enlarge.

Wwweeerrry enteresting silly wabbit.

I find it rather interesting that for the first time in my life I'm hearing/learning about these "ceramic resistors" and both are problems. The other day I replaced the ceramic dropping resistor for the cooling fans of course. Now I'm betting Selectron will say the ceramic resistor in the CCRM is bad based on his info that resistance shouldn't have been higher than 62. I guess I don't understand enough about electricity though yet to know why just 2 ohms higher (64) would be a problem..... but I await da grand masta electric-guy. TELL US O WISE ONE! ..... lol .... I need sleep. :rofl:

I'm surprised at how dusty the unit is, so I hope the relays were well-sealed at the manufacturing stage.

Yeah Wiswind has recommended the new revision CCRM several times noting that the seals are much improved over the old one.